The Industry According To: Frank Kramer, KLOS/Los Angeles

Thank you for checking out The Industry According To. Every Tuesday, we speak with a different expert or leader from the music industry — label executives, artist managers, programmers, talent, artists, consultants, and beyond. To be considered as a future guest, email me at keithblackboxgroup@gmail.com.

Today, we sit down with one of the most successful and durable morning hosts of the past 30 years — Frank Kramer. Most know him as one half of The Heidi & Frank Show, which has dominated mornings on KLOS/Los Angeles for the past 15 years. Previously, Frank worked at several high-profile stations. He is also the founder and owner of Toad Hop Entertainment, a digital content and production company.

Having worked closely with Frank twice in my career, I can tell you firsthand: he is not only a great entertainer who truly understands how to connect with an audience — he is also a shrewd businessman. This is obvious when you examine his side projects and the longevity of his brand. Frank is one of the rare hosts who can blend improv, structure, humor, and strategy into a show that consistently performs.

So, let’s dive in.

*Editor’s Note: Answers have been edited for clarity and length.*

From College Dropout to #1s in Los Angeles

Keith: You were just a semester or two away from graduating college when you decided radio sounded better. Give us the quick background that led you from frat-party starter in Indiana to Los Angeles morning radio.

Frank: Radio was never even on my radar. I was chasing an opportunity, not a dream. I was given the opportunity by somebody who told me to quit school, and I trusted that person. Four weeks after I quit school, I got fired.

I had full intent to go back to school when I asked the guy who told me to quit and hired me why he would fire me in four weeks. He said, “Tell you what? Why don’t you go back to Podunk, Indiana, and do radio?” I never had any intention of going back to doing radio. However, because he said that, I started chasing a dream of sticking both his feet in his mouth. That’s how I became number one in Los Angeles.

The Doctor

Keith: When you were doing mornings in Denver with Frosty and Jamie at Alice 106, Jamie meeting “the doctor” — a very real storyline — became a turning point for all three of you. In 2026, how important are real-life storylines for radio shows and podcasters?

Frank: Real-life storylines are always important in making the connection with your audience and giving you some relatability. I think you need to focus on the entertaining part of your life. And you hear so many hosts say, “We just go on and talk about our lives, and people love it.” I believe there is still work to do when you’re going to tell real stories about your life that need to maintain the entertainment value.

That’s what Jamie did so well: she taught me how to do that and created reality radio. At the time, there was nothing else like that. That’s why it blew up for all three of us so much. It’s still a huge part if you want to have any kind of success whatsoever — not just be a cookie-cutter reading liners.

How the Sausage is Made

Keith: You’re a student of the game. You actually know how ratings work. Additionally, you study formatics, “best practices,” and even trend-line a market to find an edge. What advice do you have for today’s younger talent when it comes to all the data points available to them?

Frank: Ignore them. I got caught in that trap of over-analyzing, and it ended up hurting the content more than helping. Second-guessing yourself is never good. Ultimately, you are responsible for the success or the failure of your show. There are so many variables and data points that are inaccurate or unknown. Consequently, you can’t rely on those solely as a testament to how you’re doing.

You have to know it. You have to feel it. And you have to love it. You have to work for it and never take it for granted. At the end of every show, if you can say, “That was a good show,” then it doesn’t matter what the data point says. It also doesn’t matter what the guy across the street is doing. That was a good show.

Syndication

Keith: The Heidi & Frank Show recently partnered with SuperRadio to syndicate the show. From your perspective, what makes the show work outside of Los Angeles? What elements translate universally, and why do you think it fits well in other markets?

Frank: Los Angeles is so big and so stretched out — a bunch of communities stitched together. If you can do well in Los Angeles with the diversity and different influences, then I think you could do well anywhere.

Heidi and I have a chemistry that was evident from the moment we met. We’ve been together 26 years. However, we haven’t lost that small-town feel. We both grew up in Indiana and never forgot where we came from. I think a show from Los Angeles could translate back to smaller markets around the country.

I’d even go as far as to say The Heidi and Frank Show could be on any format. There’s not a specific thing that makes us a rock morning show. If we were on a country station, alternative rock station, or pop station — even top 40 or hip hop — I think it’d work anywhere.

Teamwork

Keith: It may just be you and me talking today, but you and Heidi have a team around you that does a lot of heavy lifting. What do most people not fully grasp about what it takes to execute a four-hour, all-talk show with no content repeats five days a week?

Frank: That’s one of the things I’ve been fortunate to have over the years: to be surrounded by very talented people. To do what we do, it takes focus from each individual. Each person has a specific job. There isn’t any confusion or overlap. It’s just a fine-tuned machine that comes in every day and fires up. That’s what I would say: the team’s focus is the number one thing that keeps the show moving and successful.

Good Will

Keith: Whether it’s stepping up during the pandemic, holding St. Jude fundraising records, or Heidi’s work saving animals — your show creates a lot of goodwill. However, you’ve also found yourselves in some complicated situations with advertisers and activist groups. For newer shows, is “community” and “goodwill” as important as it once was?

Frank: Community and goodwill are so important — not only for the community but also for myself and everyone on my team. When you can use the platform for something good, like raising money for St. Jude or doing a blood drive, it gives you perspective. You gain a different outlook on why you do it every day. As much as we have fun in our ridiculousness, the fact that our community comes together to support each other and we are that conduit gives the show and myself more purpose and satisfaction.

The Future

Keith: When you formed Toad Hop Network, you were ahead of the curve in seeing podcasting’s eventual explosion. You’re always looking ahead. So, look at morning radio 10 years down the road and give us your take from two points of view:

1. What’s the actual content like 10 years from now? Are we still hearing War of the Roses, games for tickets, and personal rants across the dial?

Frank: Being in radio for over 30 years, I’ve witnessed the content change from decade to decade. I think it’s going to be cyclical. Who knows if we’re playing War of the Roses or Games for Tickets? What we were doing heavily in the ’90s, we weren’t doing in the 2000s. Then, in 2020, it changed.

I think it just depends on knowing your audience, knowing your community, and knowing yourself. Furthermore, evolution of character is key. Obviously, I started out a single guy, 23 years old, doing a morning show. Now, I’ve evolved to being a grandpa. Every step along the way, my audience has been there to see the different versions of my own personal growth.

I don’t even know what content I’ll be doing in 10 years. I hope I’m doing it. And I hope the industry still appreciates the human content element. I hope they don’t get rid of it completely. I think that would be a mistake.

2. What’s the business model look like? FM transmitters? Still lots of local shows? More syndication or network?

Frank: As far as the business model, obviously everything is going digital. We’re having to fight to see if radio will even come standard in new cars. Therefore, I think that the digital aspect needs to be where the focus lies. However, with the technology developing as fast as it is, who knows how the content will be delivered in the future? You could be tapping into my brain chip and listening to my thoughts.

The Stern Effect

Keith: Along with Frosty and Heidi, you spent many years in middays at KLSX/Los Angeles following Howard Stern. Being that close to Stern must have had some impact. What effects did Howard have on your career and the show you’re doing today?

Frank: Who could ask for a better lead-in than Howard Stern? It’s funny, though. He obviously did his show out of New York, and we were in Los Angeles. Consequently, I’ve never met the man personally. I do appreciate everything he’s done for radio and pushing the limits. When he signed his massive deal at Sirius, it made me realize that I’m in the highest-paying field there is — at least for him. Howard’s always been himself. He’s always been Howard. Maybe an exaggerated version of himself sometimes. Whatever version of Howard happens to be at the moment is what you’re getting.

Improv vs. Prep

Keith: Only insiders know this, but you’re the only one fully prepped each morning — it’s essentially improv for the rest of the cast. Explain why that is and how it works when most would assume that’s a plan doomed to fail.

Frank: That’s right. I’m the only one that knows what’s going to happen. Heidi is a wonderful improv actress, and she’ll go down any road with me. Her having no idea what’s going to happen next is exactly how the audience is hearing the show. When she laughs for the first time or hears something the first time — ponders something for the first time — reacts to something for the first time, that’s how the audience is hearing it. I’m witnessing it happen.

In radio, you never really get to witness your audience listening to the show. However, nobody in the room knows what’s going to happen — only I do. I get that feedback instantly. I have the wherewithal to know when it’s time to move on and I thread it all together in my own way. It’s a lot of work. I’ve done it for a very long time, but that’s what makes our show so unique and hard to duplicate.

The Most Difficult

Keith: You’ve been on the air live, doing all-talk, during some extremely difficult times: civil unrest, terrorism, COVID, fund raising for kids with cancer, and even family health battles. What’s the most difficult situation you’ve ever had to overcome on the air? How’d you do it and what did you learn?

Frank: This one goes back probably 25 years. I was driving to the station. On my way there, I got a call from one of my buddies who told me that my wife was cheating on me. I instantly hung up with him and called my wife, and sure enough, she was.

I’m driving to work to do a fun radio show. I’m thinking to myself, “I don’t know how I’m going to do this. I can’t make people laugh right now. And I don’t have the ability in my bones to have fun right now. I can’t do this.” But I continued the drive to work. I got there. I was probably a sobbing mess the entire way.

It was time for the show to start. I put my headphones on and… That was one of the best shows I think I’ve ever done. I was on fire. Everything worked. After the show was over, I took my headphones off and realized at that moment that this is what I was meant to do. This was my calling. I was meant to be in radio and not just to feed that guy his feet.

We’re All in Sales

Keith: You and Heidi index extremely high — sometimes at the very top — when advertisers study ROI on endorsements. Why is that, and explain how important you think it is for talent to get more involved in sales?

Frank: Sales is the most important thing. Anything I can do to help that process, I will do.

Why do we get the return on investment that we do? It is because we interject our personalities in the commercial. Anyone can just read copy, but you have to connect on that level as well with a commercial, as you do your audience. I make the advertiser part of the content. They become part of the community. Our fans are loyal to us. They’re also loyal to our advertisers. I will do whatever it takes for the advertiser to be happy. I will go above and beyond and do what nobody else will do. That’s the difference.

Being A Linchpin

Keith: Seth Godin famously wrote about becoming a Linchpin, which led to many in the industry to advise talent to make themselves indispensable. But that’s not even enough anymore. Talent is now advised to build their own brands with the radio gig as an extension. You’ve done that with side projects. How should radio talent be thinking about their personal brand outside of just radio?

Frank: Radio’s always been a very cutthroat business. Even more so today than ever before. I think you need to have something to fall back on. You have to present yourself to your company more as a partner, as opposed to an employee/employer relationship. What can you do for each other to improve both brands, to benefit everyone? If companies are willing to do that, I think there’d be more of an opportunity to keep talent on air, doing what they do best. We could avoid getting rid of the talent by partnering with the talent. Otherwise, you’re stuck with nothing unique and nothing real.

Be prepared for those making those decisions to make the wrong decision. Have some place to go and to fall back on. Because it’s no longer, you are fired — your audience has no idea what happened to you. Now, you have contact with your audience all the time. If you have a brand to fall back on and a place for your audience to land, then by all means, take them with you.

My Krak

Keith: You launched MyKrak.com, a digital streaming and content provider. What inspired you to build something outside traditional radio, and how has the experience shaped the way you think about the future of audio content?

Frank: I’m glad you asked that, Keith. Much like the guy in my early career that told me to go back to Podunk, Indiana, I had a boss basically tell me, “Where are you gonna go” during contract negotiations. “Where are you gonna go?” knowing that the options are thin in radio to go anywhere. He said, “Where you gonna go? You gonna go stream?” With that high-pitched sarcastic tone, he implied, “Yeah, that’s your only option. You go do that.”

Once again, my urge to feed people feet came back. I started KRAK on mykrak.com. It’s a live podcast streaming 24/7 format: music, comedy, talk. It’s everything that I think radio should be. To have that outlet for myself and for others to do exactly what they want to do: play the music exactly the way they want to play it. I’m recreating early radio again, where you relied on jocks to help you discover new music or shows that could just say whatever they wanted.

It’s been freeing. It’s been hugely successful. And it’s never going away. That’s where I’ll land. If radio suddenly doesn’t want to have me on the air anymore, well, that’s where I’ll be the next day.

What’s the Real Secret

Keith: What’s the real secret to winning in morning radio beyond just talent and smarts?

Frank: I guess that implies I know the secret. I would say, “Never taking yourself too seriously.” I think I’ve had my success because I’ve never tried to change the world. I’m just trying to make it go by a little bit faster on that drive to work. I want you to get there with a smile on your face — going to a job you don’t like. If I’m the one thing you can look forward to getting up and hanging out with, that’s what I’m there for.

The minute I think I have something to say of importance — that I have this platform, I need to speak about stuff — is the minute that someone’s going to come along and knock you off that. That’s why I think I’ve been able to get away with murder. For lack of a better word, I get away with a lot because people know I’m genuine. I care and I love doing what I do. I’m ridiculous. That’s okay with me.

The One Thing

Keith: What’s the one thing you think needs fixing at radio that you’d fix tomorrow?

Frank: I would bring back the marketing, promotion, and social media departments. Getting rid of those after the pandemic was a huge mistake. You need to be out in the community. You need to be in their faces a lot — a constant reminder that you are still there. By taking a step back and getting rid of the marketing, promotion, and live events and being out in the public with the community is not working. Sales, marketing, promotion, and social all have to have separate departments. They all need to work together to keep radio afloat.

The Blank Slate

Keith: Last question — blank slate. Say anything you want to any sector of the radio, audio, or music industry. What do you want them to hear?

Frank: The clock is so important in radio. However, it seems like the only clock the radio is focusing on is the doomsday clock. There is time to make changes. And there is time to look at the history of radio and what worked in the past. There is time to figure it all out. Let the people who’ve been doing it for a long time be the ones that consult you in figuring it out. Radio’s not over. Whether it be the delivery or the formats, it all basically comes down to the connection. That’s what we have more than anything else.

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. Sign up for our newsletters to stay updated and get the latest information right in your inbox.