Earlier in the year, ESPN and Major League Baseball agreed to a mutual opt-out of their seven-year media rights deal, which reportedly averaged $550 million per season. The network has carried MLB games since 1990 and currently carries Sunday Night Baseball contests, the Home Run Derby and matchups in the Wild Card Round of the postseason. MLB commissioner Robert D. Manfred Jr. stated in a memo acquired by The Athletic that the league has “not been pleased with the minimal coverage” on ESPN platforms beyond live game coverage and referred to the network as a “shrinking platform.”
Manfred recently appeared in studio for Mad Dog Unleashed on SiriusXM Mad Dog Sports Radio where he elaborated on the situation. Being interviewed by host Christopher “Mad Dog” Russo, he explained that there were leaks about the opt out over the last year and that the eventual phone call was unfortunate. Manfred cited the end of Baseball Tonight as the beginning of dissatisfaction with ESPN, which could have been referencing when the show stopped airing daily in 2017, although he did not confirm as such on the air. Russo added that First Take only did one segment on Opening Day on the Wednesday edition of the show, on which he appeared in studio.
“I’ll say this publicly because I said it to them,” Manfred explained. “They stepped up for the NBA, they stepped up for football, stepped up for this one, and to come back to us and say, ‘We want to cut you.’”
Manfred confirmed that the league felt hurt and as if it was being treated disrespectfully by ESPN following a year in which the sport attained viewership gains. ESPN recently attained its most-watched Sunday Night Baseball regular-season slate of games in five years, averaging 1.5 million viewers and registering double-digit growth in key demographics. The network also garnered the most-viewed MLB Wild Card Series in history, averaging 2.82 million viewers on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2.
“It was an unfortunate thing,” Manfred said. “They were a great, great partner. The one thing I will give them credit for – I do think they’ve at least said, ‘We’re going to do a great job this year,’ and I think a lot of their talent has been out there saying, ‘We want to do a great job,’ and who knows. Life’s long – something good may happen.”
There have been reports of FOX Sports, NBC Sports, YouTube and Netflix looking at different aspects of the media rights owned by ESPN. This is expected to be a temporary solution though as the league aims to alter its national and local media rights strategy in 2028 amid the expiration of deals with FOX Sports and Warner Bros. Discovery. Under this new arrangement, the league would seek to acquire linear and digital rights for all 30 teams to be available concurrent with national renewals.
“I think our goal in the next round of media negotiations in ‘28 would be to get to a more fan-friendly breakdown,” Manfred said. “We’d like to have a bigger national presence – more games that are on national broadcast and the reach the goes along with it – and on the digital side, we’d like to have a kind of friction free access for fans, get rid of the blackouts, know that if you go to the digital side of the house, you’re either going to be able to get the game there or it’s going to tell you it’s on FOX today.”
Manfred admitted that spreading national games across seven media services is a lot and added that the interest since the opt-out has been very good. While he conveyed that money does matter, he also explained that the league is paying “special attention to reach” amid the decline of the cable television bundle. Several teams around the league have introduced direct-to-consumer options in recent years, including those in major marketplaces, that allows fans to subscribe to view games without a traditional cable television subscription.
“As the RSNs lost distribution and the subscribers dropped, there’s a lot of markets where access to games is an issue,” Manfred said. “We’ve made a real effort on direct to consumer. I think we’re up to 23 teams that now have a direct-to-consumer offering on the digital side, and that reach issue is going to be really at the front of our minds.”
MLB commissioner Rob Manfred tees off on @espn for ending MLB relationship, points out ESPN gave massive increased payments to NBA and NFL, says MLB & its fans were disrespected by ESPN programming decisions. pic.twitter.com/g85g3bfS7G
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ESPNFirst Take host Stephen A. Smith took to his podcast platform last night in response to LeBron James sitting down with The Pat McAfee Show on the network Wednesday afternoon, further escalating the tension between the two individuals. James continues to mock Smith for what he interpreted as a personal criticism of both himself and his son, Bronny James. Meanwhile, Smith maintains that his comments were strictly about basketball, specifically regarding how James handled his son’s draft process.
Following both James and Smith speaking out on Wednesday, First Take co-host Shannon Sharpe also joined the discussion on his Night Cap podcast, sharing his thoughts on the matter.
“I wish Stephen A. would have just left it alone once he addressed it,” said Sharpe. “Address it. This is what happened. He came over to me, said what he said. I want to address it now, and I’m going to be done with it. Because, as my grandma used to say, ‘Boy, stirring up old ish, it still smells.’”
This marks the first time Sharpe has spoken out regarding the latest stir-up between Smith and James. As he continued, he made it clear that he believes his First Take co-host should simply move on from the issue.
“I don’t think LeBron was coming to hit you,” noted Sharpe in response to Stephen A. Smith. “LeBron was coming to tell you, bro, just stop talking about my son. Because you said, as a father, now you’re making it personal. You’re making it personal because now you’re making it seem that I’m (LeBron James) not a good father.”
Sharpe continued offering his advice to his First Take co-host via his Night Cap podcast, where he was joined by co-host Chad Ochocinco. He emphasized that it’s time to put an end to the ongoing back-and-forth.
“Now it’s time to move on,” pleaded Sharpe. “It’s not going to stop me from talking about LeBron James, the basketball player on the court. But the incident? I feel that we’ve talked about it at nauseam. I feel we’ve talked about it enough, and now it’s time to move on. That’s what I would wish Stephen A. would do.”
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The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and Elon Musk has been a hot topic in the political world. Fox News anchor Bret Baier will sit down Musk and members of the team on Thursday.
During his nightly Special Report, Baier will feature a discussion with Elon Musk and seven members of the DOGE team at 6 PM ET. The interview will be the first time that those included in the group attempting to find waste, fraud, and abuse inside government funding have taken part in a group interview. Additionally, Baier plans to examine the findings made by DOGE during the interview, a statement from the network says.
The interview with Musk marks another in a long line of high-profile interviews for Bret Baier going back to the 2024 presidential election cycle.
Already in 2025, he has featured a sit-down with foreign leaders like Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, French President Emmanuel Macron, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, Irish Prime Minister Micheal Martin, in addition to a conversation with President Donald Trump and various cabinet members.
Special Report with Bret Baier has reaped the ratings benefits of those high-profile conversations. On the final day of February, Fox News bested NBC Nightly News and CBS Evening News in the ratings with Baier’s conversation with Zelenskyy drawing 6.4 million viewers, compared to the 5.8 million and 3.9 million viewers NBC News and CBS News saw, respectively.
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ESPN will be moving its Los Angeles-based editions of SportsCenter and soccer programming to its primary network headquarters in Bristol, Conn., impacting 35 of the 229 employees based at the production center. Employees have been given the option to relocate to Bristol and keep their same jobs or choose to accept similar roles, while those who decline to make the move will have severance eligibility and produce shows through later in May. NBA studio programming, including NBA Today and NBA Countdown, will continue operating out of the ESPN Los Angeles Production Center, which is located near Crypto.com Arena, the home of the Los Angeles Lakers.
“Based on our current business needs, we are relocating the L.A.-based ‘SportsCenter’ and soccer studio shows to ESPN’s Bristol headquarters, including the limited number of employee positions related to these shows,” ESPN said in a statement provided to Mollie Cahillane of Sports Business Journal. “The Los Angeles Production Center will continue to host ESPN’s NBA studio productions and provide office space to additional L.A.-based employees.”
The Los Angeles facility first opened 16 years ago and was the location where the SportsCenter starring Stan Verrett and Neil Everett aired for many years. While Everett was let go by the network in 2023, Verrett continues to host the show from the locale, and his status with the network is not yet known. The status of Linda Cohn, who is the longest-tenured SportsCenter anchor at the company, also remains unknown at this time.
As previously reported by Dylan Byers of Puck, ESPN was planning to close its Los Angeles and South Street Seaport studios no later than this year. Details of any further moves at either location have not been announced, the latter of which houses studio shows such as Get Up, First Take and Around the Horn. The decision is said to be unrelated to reported talks with the National Football League to acquire NFL Media, which is based near SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, Calif., the location of the first-ever ESPN Super Bowl broadcast in 2027.
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The ongoing public back-and-forth between ESPN First Take host Stephen A. Smith and Los Angeles Lakers superstar LeBron James has continued to dominate NBA discussions over the past couple of weeks. Notably, James appeared on The Pat McAfee Show on Wednesday for over an hour, engaging in a wide-ranging conversation that touched on his opinions about Smith, the NBA, and how the media, in general, covers the league.
During the interview, James took the opportunity to emphasize how the voice of the player has gained more prominence in recent years. He expressed his belief that the media has become too comfortable in how it covers athletes. Additionally, he reflected on his infamous Decision television special, where he announced his move to the Miami Heat, stating that it served as a turning point the media used to cast him in a negative light.
Meanwhile, ESPN Radio host Michelle Smallmon defended how the media covers high-profile athletes like James. Speaking on UNSPORTSMANLIKE alongside co-hosts Evan Cohen and Chris Canty, she argued that the media’s job is not to act as cheerleaders for players but rather to critically analyze their performances and public statements.
“Just like Aaron Rodgers complaining about the media, LeBron James cannot complain about the media because he is the media,” Smallmon stated. “Whenever you have your own podcast, whenever you have your own show, you are the media. So you’re complaining about a construct that you willingly participate in. It might be different from what he’s suggesting regarding reporters, but at the end of the day, you can’t pick and choose the parts you don’t like when you actively engage in it all the time—especially when it benefits you financially and helps you get your message across.”
Expanding on her point, Smallmon also noted that an athlete’s brand benefits from media coverage, as it increases visibility and creates financial opportunities.
“It’s not always going to be positive,” Smallmon stated. “As the media, it’s our job to dissect and analyze your performance and the things that you say. That’s part of the gig.”
James, however, joined McAfee not just to discuss these issues but also to promote the return of his podcast, Mind The Game, which features former NBA teammate Steve Nash. The second season of the podcast is set to launch on April 1, as revealed in a trailer released on Wednesday. It will be available for streaming on YouTube, Prime Video, and all major podcast platforms.
Interestingly, Smallmon pointed out the irony in James’ critique of the media, given that he himself is increasingly stepping into a media role through ventures like Mind The Game.
“It’s a symbiotic relationship,” she explained. “You have to talk to the media. The media then writes about you, talks about you, and broadcasts about you. That helps your overall brand, which in turn helps your wallet. That helps your pocket.”
"Just like Aaron Rodgers complaining about the media, LeBron James cannot complain about the media because he is the media." @msmallmon reacts to LeBron James' "issues" with how the NBA is covered. https://t.co/chaiogLM85pic.twitter.com/4Y8xNwHcGk
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WFAN host Boomer Esiason has been keeping listeners entertained in morning drive on New York City’s top sports radio station since September of 2007, and he continues to enjoy the work he’s doing with co-host Gregg Giannotti. Over the years, his passion for broadcasting has only grown stronger. The former NFL signal caller recently joined The Jim Rome Podcastfor an in-depth discussion about his career, tracing his journey from professional athlete to professional broadcaster.
Reflecting on his time with WFAN and his experiences in radio broadcasting, Esiason emphasizes that the ever-changing nature of the industry keeps his role exciting. He explains that the unpredictability of each day is what makes hosting the top morning drive sports program in the country so enjoyable.
“We’re not scripted here in New York. I’ve worked with two unbelievable partners,” said Esiason. “Craig Carton first taught me a lot about radio. I never had a bad day with him in the studio for ten years.”
Esiason then recalled the shocking morning when Carton was arrested by the FBI for his role in an alleged ticket scam to pay off gambling debts. Carton ultimately served a third of a 42-month prison sentence. Looking back, Esiason admits that was an incredibly difficult day to be on the radio. However, he remains grateful for the turn of events that eventually led to his current partnership with Giannotti.
“He’s also a Long Islander like I am,” explained Esiason. “We have a lot of similarities. He is 22 or 23 years younger than I am, so he brings a fresh perspective. If you can call a 40-year-old a fresh perspective. It’s just the uncertainty of every day walking in that studio. I can say, over 18 years at WFAN in New York on CBS Sports Network, I’ve never had a bad day in that studio.”
In addition to praising his co-host, Esiason also expressed deep appreciation for the entire production staff. He emphasized that he has never been in an argument with anyone over anything, adding that there is a shared understanding among the team that they are going to have a great day. That camaraderie, he noted, has been a key factor in his long-term success.
At first, however, it took some time for him to get comfortable replacing Don Imus on the station with Carton as his co-host. This was largely due to the contrast in their content styles. While Carton had a more theatrical approach, Esiason needed time to adjust and find his rhythm.
“It took me about six to eight weeks back when we started in 2007 replacing Don Imus exactly what he (Carton) was doing,” explained Esiason. “I realized about eight weeks into it that he was doing entertainment. This was his stand-up routine. Once I figured that out, it was smooth sailing where I could play off of him, and he could play off of me.”
He further emphasized that having chemistry with a co-host is crucial for creating engaging content. In his case, he was fortunate to work with Carton, which he considers a turning point in his career. Today, he remains thankful to still be part of a top-tier production team, with Giannotti as his trusted co-host.
“I was an athlete coming into a medium that I knew all about. I was a part of it, but never as a host,” said Esiason. “I had to learn pretty quickly on the fly, and we had great synergy. I still have that with all the guys I still work with.”’
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The public feud between ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith and Los Angeles Lakers superstar LeBron James intensified on Wednesday following James’ appearance on ESPN’s Pat McAfee Show. The Lakers forward and Smith have been engaged in a very public back-and-forth regarding Smith’s criticism of James and his handling of the Lakers drafting his son, Bronny, in the second round of this past year’s NBA Draft.
During the interview, James told McAfee that ever since video of his confrontation with Smith leaked online, Smith has been on a “Taylor Swift tour run,” suggesting that he is taking full advantage of the situation. Furthermore, James called Smith a “mother****r” and argued that Smith “missed the point” of why he confronted him in the first place.
Unsurprisingly, this did not sit well with Smith. Later that evening, he addressed James directly on his own podcast, making it clear that if LeBron had put hands on him at the arena, he would have “immediately swung on him.”
“As I have repeatedly stated, I was not talking about his son. I was talking about him,” Smith emphasized. “I’m getting to a point where I’m very annoyed with people who cover the game of basketball, who cover professional sports. Pundits out there—including him (LeBron), his inner circle, his family members, and everybody else included—when are you going to ask him or hold him accountable for the truth?”
Building on his point, Smith reiterated that he has only discussed Bronny James in the context of being a second-round NBA draft pick who is not yet ready to play in the league. Therefore, Smith contends that James continues to misrepresent his stance.
“He hoodwinked y’all into thinking that he was upset about criticism of his son,” Smith exclaimed. “If your son is a professional basketball player and I was talking about your son as a basketball player—since you just went on The Pat McAfee Show and said you would never knock anybody for talking about the game—then what is it that I said? What I said was, as a father, stop.”
Further pressing the issue, Smith challenged James to clarify how he believes his son should be discussed as a player. He then revealed that he was once invited to be a guest on James’ HBO program The Shop, which he accepted under two conditions. First, James had to be present during the taping. Second, the taping had to remain unedited, according to Smith.
“I know if I had told him to come on First Take, he wouldn’t do that because he views that as benefitting me,” Smith explained. “I know that if I wanted him to come on this podcast, he’d view that as benefitting me. Ladies and gentlemen, I’m offering to come on his podcast. Name the time and place, and I’ll show up. By my damn self. I was never taken up on that offer. Because it’s really easy to talk that talk like you got all the facts when I’m not there to respond. It’s another thing entirely if I’m there to refute all the bulls**t coming out of your mouth.”
As of now, LeBron James has yet to respond to Smith’s latest remarks.
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Meet The Podcasters is a special 9-week series created in partnership with Point to Point Marketing. Our fourth feature is on President of iHeartPodcasts, Will Pearson. Follow along with the series, and revisit former conversations by checking out the entire category.
Will Pearson joined iHeartMedia in 2018 when the company acquired Stuff Media. At Stuff Media, he served on the leadership team responsible for growing the podcast division, secured an investment from the Raine Group and led the integration of the division into iHeartMedia. Prior to joining HowStuffWorks, Pearson was the Co-Founder and President of Mental Floss, a media company he launched in 2001 where he oversaw the launch of Mental Floss Magazine, the publication of several bestselling books, the creation of a children’s education series and the growth of a digital audience of more than 20 million regular readers and viewers.
In this edition of our ‘Meet The Podcasters’ series, we explore Pearson’s priorities with the top global podcast publisher, what he considers successful metrics, and what he looks for when adding new shows and properties to the iHeartMedia podcast umbrella.
Will Pearson spoke with Barrett Media from the iHeartMedia offices in Richmond, Virgina.
*Editor’s Note: Answers have been edited for clarity and length.*
John Mamola: Provide a 30,000 foot explanation of the iHeartPodcast wing as it relates to iHeartMedia in general.
Will Pearson: One of my favorite parts about the job here at iHeart, is the fact that we’re one of the few podcast companies that gets to think about every single category under the sun.
We’re responsible for creating, distributing, marketing, monetizing about 900 national podcasts. Then a couple thousand podcasts that are created out of all of our local market stations. Those run the gamut from true crime, health and wellness, sports, food, travel, and comedy across the board.
Our job is to help get those out into the world. To get as many listeners to them as possible, and in some case, eyeballs as possible. Then to effectively monetize those, so we’re the part of the company that’s responsible for the distribution, marketing and monetization of all of those podcasts.
John Mamola: The latest PodTrac numbers came out for February, with over 164 million downloads and nearly 33 million of a monthly audience. iHeartPodcast is a dominant beast. In your role as president of iHeartPodcast, what defines successful for you and what’s successful for the company in the podcast space? Also, how do you make iHeartPodcast product listens more unique than any other place where you can get a podcast?
Will Pearson: The huge advantage that iHeartPodcast has, and of course people know how big iHeart is on the radio side, but they often don’t realize the role that it plays in the growth of our podcast business. The reason we are, by far, the largest podcast network out there is because we’re able to lean into this massive megaphone that is the radio stations.
Every day, if you’re listening to any one of our radio stations around the country, you’re going to hear ads for promotions for various podcasts that are out there. That’s the way we get the word out in an even bigger way.
The other thing we’re able to do because of the scale of our existing podcast network is to find the right audiences. If I’m talking to a great history podcast, I’m able to say to them you should come on board here because we’ve got these other nine or ten amazing history podcasts. People flock to what they like, so if they’re already a self-proclaimed history lover or self-identified history lover, they’re likely to check out another history podcast.
That’s what we tend to do, is bring on shows that we know we have the right audiences for. Thankfully we have big podcasts across just about every category, so we’re able to help get the word out about them.
I do think it’s worth noting you could look at a network like this and say, oh my gosh there’s 900 podcasts. How do you even keep up with that? The reality is that the way we organize is similar to 20 to 25 networks or slates of shows that are almost all like their own small podcast network.
You’ve got a comedy team in Burbank; you have a true crime team in Atlanta. We’ve got our partnership with Malcolm Gladwell’s Pushkin industries or Bloomberg in the world of business. Each one of these functions as their own small unit, but being able to tap into the resources of a much larger organization.
When we’re doing it right and functioning at our best, that’s how we organize. Ssall groups that get to tap into this tremendous resource.
John Mamola: You’re heading into your sixth or seventh year with the company. Is that the main piece of the evolution from when you first started with iHeartPodcasts? Are those added assets how you can continually build the platform?
Will Pearson: That’s what we’ve tried to do over the past several years. When we when we first started here, after the acquisition of StuffMedia, we looked at the percentage of downloads or listens that were driven by our top five or so podcasts. That ratio was a little heavier toward those top five podcasts, much heavier than we wanted it to be.
We recognized we needed to find growth across all categories in podcasting. We’ve got shows ranking in all nineteen categories in Podtrac. That was really the goal. To make sure that not only are you spreading out the risk, but you’re also just building these networks across the board building a healthier, more sustainable Podcast Network. We’re not relying on any one, two or three shows that are part of it.
John Mamola: What’s a typical day for you? You have so many different brands spread across the country. It’s a big brand with the umbrella being with iHeartMedia. What’s like a normal day for you?
Will Pearson: Working with any part of our management team on anything that they’re trying to build, or any problems they’re trying to solve. It can run across any of the three main areas of what we’re trying to do. That includes the content development, the marketing of what we’re doing, and that’s the selling of what we’re doing.
Last week, I started the week out in Austin where we had our iHeartPodcast Awards. That’s really more on the marketing wing of what we’re doing. Getting the word out about podcasts, talking to others to just make sure people know what we’re doing. I ended up a couple days later in Richmond with a with some of our sellers on a sales pitch, so that’s the sales part. Then I’ll spend much of today with some of our team on the development of a few shows that we have. One in sports, one in health, and a couple other categories to just help us think about what we want to be creating six months from now.
No one day is exactly the same as the next, which is part of what keeps it interesting and fun. I think about it across those three different categories. Truly, none of this is possible without the leadership over each of those pieces that I mentioned.
If you don’t have a great head of our comedy team, or a great head of our health and wellness team; it’s really hard to build a successful slate of shows. A lot of it is also just making sure we’re building and fostering those relationships with our management teams.
John Mamola: You referenced SXSW in Austin, TX.
Will Pearson: We just went a lot bigger this year. For the past four years, we take over this incredible boutique hotel there called the Hotel Saint Cecilla and we do programming all weekend.
Because we moved our iHeartPodcast Awards to ACL Live where they record Austin City Limits, it just gave us a much bigger splash there this year in terms of the visibility and the buzz created there at SXSW. It’s amazing to see how much podcasting has grown, and its presence there at SXSW over the past few years.
John Mamola: I can imagine that’s a key partnership for you. When you think of partnerships to continually expand, what are the ones that pique your curiosity the most as President of IHeartPodcasts?
Will Pearson: We really lean into our partnerships with some of the best podcast networks out there.
We’re the official partner for Pushkin industries, that’s Malcolm Gladwell company for the NFL. When we want to be able to talk about our sports podcasts, having that relationship and official partnership with the NFL is a huge one. I mentioned Bloomberg earlier on the business side.
What we’re trying to do is partner with those that we see as the best in their respective categories. In comedy that’s Will Ferrell, where we created Big Money Players. We know that we’re not going to create the best comedy network out there without great partners in the space that are already doing such an amazing job at it within their respective categories. Those would be a few that really just help us make sure that we’re expanding in the right categories.
John Mamola: The one major benefit that working for iHeartMedia has, and you mentioned this already, is the traditional radio platform where you can promote all of those podcasts in all of those individual markets.
It’s no secret traditional radio business is having some troubles. iHeartMedia has had to make a number of cuts over time, as is Audacy more recently along with Cumulus.
How important is the continued growth of the traditional radio medium, because it is a huge megaphone for the podcast wing and for the success and promotion. So for you as the president of iHeartPodcasts, how important is the viability of the traditional radio brands with the company?
Will Pearson: It’s hugely important. A really important fact is that broadcast radio still does reach about 90% of Americans. A lot of times at the conversation of the evolution of media, it (radio) gets lumped in with what’s happened in broadcast TV which has just seen huge declines over the past decade.
In radio, the reality is it’s actually still reaching about 90% of Americans. Of course, industries evolve and you look for ways to operate more efficiently and effectively. For us, that is the reason that our podcast division is able to reach so many people.
We find the best way to get somebody to listen to a new podcast is by reaching them in another form of audio, either through podcast or through broadcast radio. It’s a massive part of our success story.
John Mamola: We have a lot of talent across the country that work for iHeartMedia stations that read Barrett Media. I, myself, worked for iHeartMedia as a program director.
One of the things that that we always had a challenge with on the local market level was trying to get the talent more excited and interested in doing something outside of just their typical show. This sort of thing plays into the iHeartPodcast wing with all the on-demand channels lumped into the podcast wing with iHeartPodcast.
Because of the recent cuts, some talents have been asked to do a little bit more. However, they are still interested in finding a way a podcast idea outside of what they typically do. What piece of guidance that you would give those type of people that would be in those kinds of situations?
Will Pearson: It’s been really interesting how the evolution of how podcasts are sold, and how they’re monetized has really created some opportunities for a lot of our talent coming out of the markets.
A few years ago, if you started a podcast out of Des Moines, and you were trying to build up an audience around it. The sales part of that really only depended on your local sales force to be able to monetize it. These days, because we are able to take to market audience targeting in podcasting and in digital, it is so much easier to target specific audiences than it used to be.
Now that creator in Des Moines is able to put out a podcast and not just rely on the local sellers there to sell it, but it can actually be bought. Let’s say you started a hunting and fishing podcast, and people who are trying to reach that audience across the country are able to buy those audiences as part of a much bigger package that we’re selling.
We’re able to monetize those local podcasts in a way that we weren’t as effectively years ago. The other piece of it is we’re really leaning into those creators now in a way that we didn’t previously say three to four years ago.
Let’s go back to that example of a hunting and fishing podcast.
When we’ve got executive team members, and podcast producers that are all sitting in offices in New York or Los Angeles. At the same time, we’re missing the content creation there that might be better created out of those local markets. That example that I gave. We’ve got creators that are in Birmingham, Nashville, and in other locations that are now jumping in and trying to jump into categories where we previously haven’t had as much strength.
We may have the best creators right here to make those. We’re really leaning into those teams in a way that that we weren’t in previous years. I think creators across the country should be looking of how they can fill those gaps, and how they can jump in and create something that creators in other parts of the country may not be suited to do.
We’re seeing that happening more in a way that we previously were.
John Mamola: Video is becoming the player, if it’s not the player already in the podcast space. iHeartMedia is traditionally an audio company. Explain the thought process, or the transition that you’re aiming for to be more of a visual product, as opposed to just an audio company when it comes to the podcasting.
Will Pearson: I love it that it’s happening. I think unfortunately, a lot of times, you see these headlines that are positioning this as audio versus video. There’s no question we are an audio company at our core, and probably 85% of our podcasts are only meant for audio.
When you think about a show like Malcolm Gladwell’s Revisionist History, a video version of that is a documentary. It’s now just its own thing.
However, for the shows that are very personality driven, especially celebrity driven, our goal is to be wherever the fans are. If there are fans that want to see this instead of just listening to it, we are creating those versions for those specific shows.
I think some of the nuance is lost when you just see the headline saying ‘podcasting is moving toward video’ instead of understanding that this is a sign. The podcast consumption has grown so much that there are now multiple ways to be able to access this content from these creators.
For some creators, it’s primarily social. For some, it’s now video, but in all cases, audio should be at the core of that. I actually really love seeing what’s happening right now. We have more shows that are creating video for new audiences, incremental audiences that might not have already been in the podcast space.
John Mamola: Talking with a number of industry leaders of the past couple of weeks, there is some concern that the podcasting space is becoming too crowded for its own good.
From your perspective, is there a ceiling on how far the podcast space can grow for its own good?
Will Pearson: One, if there is a ceiling, I don’t think we’re anywhere near it. It’s definitely a competitive space, and there’s a lot of shows in this space.
Recalling the earlier part of the conversation, the percentage of downloads and revenue driven by those top five to ten podcasts is less today than it was three or four years ago. Part of this is back to the advantage that we have, being able to grow across so many different categories. It’s very much an effort of ours to just keep growing in so many different categories.
I would much rather have the twenty-five shows each doing two million downloads a month, and not be reliant on one show that’s driving fifty million downloads a month. We can offer advertisers variation of audiences and content, and give so many different partners what they’re looking for across the board.
For me, it’s not a huge concern. It is a more crowded space, certainly, than it was a few years ago. It makes it harder to get an individual show to cut through, but that’s where we really lean into that megaphone that we have to get the word out about a show.
John Mamola: What’s the one thing you know now about the podcast space, about growth in the podcast space that you wish you knew five years ago?
Will Pearson: Consistency of publishing in this space, and consistency of marketing is so critical to the growth of podcasts.
You rarely have a show that you can just count on for explosive growth at the very beginning, and then it maintains. That fostering of that relationship with ongoing shows that are publishing every single week. Building that audience a little bit each time as opposed to yards and miles at a time is really critical.
Our healthiest and most sustainable shows are the ones that have been willing to jump in and do the grind day in, and day out. They continue to build as opposed to those right out of the gate and explosive growth type shows. Don’t get me wrong, I love it when a show takes off from the beginning.
That’s a that’s a key part of it, not that we didn’t know that. Just that consistency, in many ways, is such a huge part of building a sustainable show over time.
To learn more about Point-To-Point Marketing’s Podcast and Broadcast Audience Development Marketing strategies, contact Tim Bronsil at tim@ptpmarketing.com or 513-702-5072.
He’s one of the busiest men in radio, with multiple shows across the different platforms. After 30+ years in the business, Ben Ferguson thinks he has more passion and is just now getting good at this craft.
“I don’t know if I’ve ever had this much fun doing radio as I am right now, because I feel like there’s this moment happening where I’m getting to do what I want to do and it’s reaching a lot of people,” Ferguson says.
The 43-year-old, who hosts The Ben Ferguson Show in afternoons at 600 WREC in Memphis, is not asking the usual round-robin questions of everyday hosts. Ferguson’s goal is first and foremost to make good content. “I learned several years ago, I don’t listen to other shows, because it’s really hard not to just like take something like that, and in essence copy it.” Instead, he tries to “humanize guests now and talk about things that are a little different than what they get in that sound bite moment and then translate that for the audience.”
It’s this style that was brought to his most recent interview with Elon Musk. “I was trying to think: What is a question that I would want to hear the answer to? So I asked, ‘Why hasn’t Elon Musk gone to outer space?’ [Musk] wants to colonize Mars, does that mean you’re going to go to Mars? When are you going to become an astronaut? No one has asked him that which is amazing.”
“[Musk is] throwing rockets up there every day. He’s launched more rockets than any government or person in the history of the world. At some point I’m like, ‘Don’t you want to jump on one of those and be an astronaut? His answer was hysterical. He said, ‘I might like to die on Mars, just not at impact.’”
Musk isn’t the only big name in the new administration Ferguson’s being given access to. The record-setting host believes this might be the most accessible administration for the media since his time working for the Bush Administration. “In 2016, there was not as good of access. At the end, it got a lot better, and that was really fun. I think they understood that conservative media, radio shows, and podcasts could be very powerful, and they figured it out in the last year or so.”
Ben Ferguson added, “Now, this team that’s running the comms team at this White House they understand. You can see them pushing legacy media out and bringing in new media and conservatives.”
With so much content more available to the media, in January, Ben Ferguson added a new podcast, The 47 Morning Update.
“I felt like there was a need for a short-form podcast for people that have a short commute, or have a lot going on, or maybe don’t want to listen to 30 to 45 minutes of political talk but want to be engaged and know what’s going on. [This podcast gives] them an update every day that is the three biggest stories specifically coming out of the White House.”
The best example he could give of his target audience is a personal one. “My wife’s a great example [of this demographic]. She does not listen to my show every day. But she does listen to The 47 almost every day.” As for how he feels about his wife not listening to his show, Ferguson said, “I love that she is not really that political. I’d say on a scale of 1 to 10. She’s a 2 and that’s probably why we work so well. She’s a mom first and loves hanging out. She does not like politics at all.”
Regardless of where listeners may fall on the political spectrum, Ferguson wants to make clear, that he is not one of those conservatives trying to further divide the country. “My goal is not to go to war every day with and divide the country. My goal is to change hearts and minds, so I try to give people a conversation. Instead of hanging up on a liberal caller, I will talk to you in a respectful manner instead of belittling.”
This change of pace is different than in his early career.
“I think there was some of that shock jock radio that was kind of fun. (Mark) Levin’s great line is, ‘Get off my phone you, dope.’”
Today, Ben Ferguson turns his focus on having more grand conversations with everyone. “I want to change your mind, and if I’m just attacking you, you’re not going to listen to me. I think my show has changed a little bit where I will ask questions more than I will go after somebody if they’re a lefty, because I want to try to get them to the point where they’re like, ‘Ok, yeah. This really doesn’t make sense. I now see your perspective and we can still maybe agree to disagree.”
He’s not just bringing this style to his radio shows but podcasting, too. “I was reluctant to get in the podcast space years ago because I was like, ‘Why would I put myself out of business? I’m a radio guy,’ and I was wrong.”
Ben Ferguson believes podcasting and radio complement each other well and he encourages people to embrace both. “Do both because there’s a certain audience you just get a lot more of in one area and a certain audience you get in the other, and both can complement each other, instead of competing.”
Ferguson is almost always working on one of his four shows or commentating on TV outlets. In order to get it all done, the radio and podcast host is extraordinarily grateful for his home studio. His podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz, often tapes late at night and into the early morning.
“One night we were doing the show, and I was like, ‘Hey, we both don’t sound good. We need to start this over. Let’s wake up. We got to bring the fire,'” Ferguson reminisced. “And he laughed. We started over.”
He even feels most, if not all shows, from home are actually better. “You can just tell there’s a different level of relaxation. You can tell there’s family that they probably just saw 30 seconds earlier. I’m a better host because I do the show from home. I have no doubt I’m better at it.”
The author of the top-rated book, “It’s My America, Too,” noted of his career path. “I think when you start in radio, when you’re 12 and you’re career goal is, ‘I want to be the like the next Rush Limbaugh,’ when you’re 12, that’s not an arrogant thing. You’re dreaming like that was your dream.”
While at certain points in time, this dream caused some undue pressure from outside sources, today Ben Ferguson is living the dream.
“It’s interesting to see now, being 43, having three boys [to see people inadvertently put pressure on kids]. One of my sons is really good at golf and so they’re like ‘Dude he’s going to be the next…’ I was like, ‘Please don’t say that. Like, whatever you do, don’t. That’s way too much pressure.’ So now I’m proud of what I get to do. I love what I get to do, and I’m very content in my career. If this is it, I feel good about what I did and that’s a weird place, but also a really free, fun place.”
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And then…they didn’t say anything. Anyone. No one at The Daily Wire commented on the co-founder leaving his executive position. Which seemed…strange, especially for a brand built on the reputation of its hosts saying whatever they want — without the fear of repercussions — whenever they wanted.
That lack of comment about the situation let rumors run rampant. Former hosts and those at rival digital entities began talking about the situation. And that fed the news cycle about the situation. For nearly a week, no one at the company truly addressed the situation publicly. Not Ben Shapiro, who many turned to as the expected person to break the silence, who co-founded The Daily Wire with Boreing. Not Matt Walsh, not Michael Knowles. Nobody spoke up or spoke out.
Logic dictates that’s the correct way to operate in these situations. It’s the age-old adage about music radio station: You can’t be hurt by the songs you don’t play.
Except you can be hurt by what you don’t say these days because if you don’t address uncomfortable situations, they fester. And the longer you let things fester, the more deep the infection becomes.
So I was surprised that it took until Shapiro made an appearance on The Megyn Kelly Show to address the situation, where he strongly denied some of the rumors that had come about The Daily Wire. He went as far as to call them “bullshit,” which is somewhat strong language for Shapiro.
Companies, brands, and leaders often get into the mind space that you can’t address each and every thing people say about them. But there does need to be some awareness that some things are going to land and loom larger than others.
Let me preface this by saying: I am not making any insinuations here. I know nothing of the behind-the-scenes workings at The Daily Wire. But I do understand how it would be very simple to see the co-founder of one the most successful digital media enterprises stepping down from his role as co-CEO could be fodder for some to talk and take shots at the outlet.
So, when the company released a statement that said Jeremy Boreing was leaving his executive position to focus on other projects, it was easy to be skeptical. Because we often forget that we’re not the only ones with B.S. meters. Everyone has one. And when you start to detect bovine excrement, it’s difficult to think it was actually a bowl of Fruity Pebbles and your nose was deceiving you.
It’s why I have always taken the approach that if someone got fired, laid off, quit, or whatever other reason why they’re no longer a part of your company, station, brand, or show: you just flat-out address it. You don’t have to tell the whole truth. You don’t have to tell the entire truth. But you do have to tell the truth.
If your audience is used to someone being in a position and they’re suddenly no longer there, it’s insulting to just gloss over it as if nothing ever happened. And The Daily Wire did that. But they didn’t do it flawlessly, which led to a little bit of damage control that could have been avoided if someone — legitimately, it could have only been Shapiro — addressed it the same day in one of their shows.
If there was some internal strife, it’s easy to dispel by someone sharing on their show, “Hey, we’ve made some changes we’re really excited about it. Jeremy Boreing is super passionate about this project and we feel like his time is going to be best spent on focusing on that going forward. He didn’t love the parts that operating the company on a day-to-day basis entailed, so we’re putting him in the best position for personal success.
“Going forward, Caleb Robinson is going to serve as CEO of The Daily Wire. Nothing else will change and you won’t notice anything different going forward, but I just wanted to address that to squash any rumors or anything that might have come from that change. Moving on…”
It truly is that simple. But so many in the media industry get that wrong. Even if leaders want to pre-produce a script for their talents to read and not deviate from, that’s better than just skipping along as if everything is sunshine and rainbows when it clearly isn’t.
When I was about 10 years old, before getting on the bus for school one day, I said goodbye to our family dog, a 12-year-old black lab named Spanky. When I got home from school that day, there was a chocolate lab at Spanky’s dog house. I asked my mom where Spanky was and she said “Spanky’s out at the dog house.” Clearly, that wasn’t Spanky. When pressed, my mom replied “I said that’s Spanky, damn it. Also, we changed Spanky’s name to Godzilla.”
It was insulting to my intelligence, which I admittedly hadn’t given my parents much reason to think was all that robust.
But that is how you treat your audience when you simply ignore the fact that something — whether it be personnel or any other change — is different about a product they’ve grown to become familiar with and enjoy.
I give so much credit to Mitch Rosen of 670 The Score, who encountered a similar situation last week when the station cut ties with longtime host Dan Bernstein after a series of uncouth social media posts.
He went on the station, made the announcement that Bernstein was no longer affiliated with the brand, and that was that. While it was clear the directive to talent on the station was to not discuss the incident, the on-air hosts weren’t told not to address Bernstein’s tenure with the station, their interactions with him, and how they felt about the former colleague.
And to put that edict in place would have been a dumb one. You can’t erase the memories and minds of your audience, especially after letting go of a host who had 30 years of familiarity with the station’s listeners.
When something goes down, and it’s almost universally negative, be upfront. Be honest. That’s how you built the audience in the first place. If something happens, address it. That doesn’t mean you have to dwell on it, but to pretend as if your audience is too inept to put two and two together is outrageous.
If you’re not telling your story, someone else is. And the chances they’re telling it accurately the longer you wait to address it. Control the message, even if it means you take a hit in the interim. You’ll be better off — and more credible in the eyes of your audience — the next time a similar situation arises.
Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.
