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Radio’s Share Of Ear: The Debate Rages On

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If you’re in one of the numerous Facebook groups for radio folks like Radio Peeps or The Broadcasting Club, you’ve seen a number of recent arguments where everyone argues like angry badgers about whether “radio is dead, I met a 23-year-old who’s never listened to radio” or “radio is alive and well, I met a 12-year-old who sang our jingle back to me.” The discussions have been more numerous lately, and some get a bit heated.

To all of this, I have two big points to make.

1. One person’s view does not reflect what everyone else is experiencing.
Even recently, I’ve seen several comments on one of these Facebook group posts from someone who insisted radio is fine because in *his* market, at *his* station, everything is fine and *he* hears from listeners all the time and *he* knows kids who definitely listen to radio so it’s alive and well and he’ll put money on it.

This is the difference between a micro view and a macro view. Yes, there are probably pockets where radio is doing fine. There are likely some jocks and PDs who are enjoying rockstar status in their communities and drawing tons of people to remotes and getting their phones blown up every time they do a break. But is that the same across the entire industry?

Going back to Edison Research’s “Share of Ear” report, the most recent edition from earlier this year shows that AM/FM radio (including stations’ streams) still commands the largest chunk of all audio listening among Americans 13+. That number is 36% of listening, with streaming coming in second at 20%. So, we get more than a third of their listening day!

There are a couple of pretty big “but”s involved.

  • That 36% share is down a point from the previous survey, while streaming grew a point.
  • A decade ago, radio’s listening in Share of Ear was 52%, representing a 16-point-percentage drop over the past 10 years.
  • If we delve into the younger end of the demographic, Edison reported in July that, among Americans aged 13-22, AM/FM radio is *third* for audio share with only 20%, noticeably behind streaming (37%) and music videos on YouTube (23%).

If your station dropped 16% of your audience from your market-leading 8-share to a 6.7, would you – or your management – still be worry-free about being #1 in the market, or would everyone be a bit concerned that the station is losing numbers while the crosstown competitor is creeping up on you? Especially as the older demos – the ones that more heavily support you – age out and you are more dependent on younger demos that listen more to your crosstown competition?

A singular encounter on a personal level doesn’t predict what the majority of the industry is experiencing. Claiming that “radio is fine” because you’ve personally built a solid listener base or met a rabid fan in their teens is like denying that heart disease is the leading cause of death in the U.S. because your cholesterol numbers are fine.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Time for radio to stop resting on its laurels and touting its reign as a reason to listen. The industry as a whole is competing against a whole new landscape, and beating our chests and yelling, “We’re #1!” is not going to convince people to continue listening.

Time to start actively promoting what makes radio compelling – and actually walking the talk. Time to start inviting and enticing people in new and different ways to come to our party because simply yelling about how we have the biggest party is not getting people in the door anymore. And today’s 13-22-year-olds are tomorrow’s 25-54-year-olds. If we don’t invite them in and get them through the door now, they’ll form the habits of going elsewhere for audio and continue those behaviors when they have disposable income.

2. The public narrative about radio is not great, and that matters.

I recently went to a conference where someone spoke on the importance of strategic narratives and how they influence the greater population. He gave AI as an example and showed how, even if AI is a positive force, we’ve been conditioned by years of public and pop-culture perception to believe it’s evil.

The speaker put up a slide of how AI has been portrayed in movies over the past 50 years, and, by an almost 2-to-1 margin, AI has been positioned as evil and coming to annihilate all of us over AI, helping us and being good to humanity. Skynet, the Agents running the Matrix and HAL-9000, are overpowering WALL-E. And that’s shaped unconscious bias in a good number of humans who are now afraid of AI and its potential destructive path.

Radio has a similar image problem. We’re not doing a good enough PR job to combat the emerging public narrative that our medium is stodgy, outdated, and only for emergencies. When was the last time you saw a movie or TV show where one of the main characters was on the radio, or a pivotal moment involved a radio? On the flipside, the #1 show on Netflix (at the time I write this), “Nobody Wants This,” features a podcaster as one of the main characters, and the podcast plays a sizable role in the plot.

Talking amongst ourselves about our value is not going to get the job done. I agree with several of Sean Ross’s points in his “Reclaiming Not Just Listening, But Listeners” column from last week, where he called out marketing and concentrating on the new generation of listeners as necessary areas of attention. Radio needs to tell its story and market its compelling value more, not just rely on the fact that it has its own transmitter. Find ways of being more visible in the community. And leadership needs to pony up money for that exposure.

In addition, giving younger listeners reasons to listen is imperative. Because if we lose them now while they’re still forming lifetime habits, we likely lose them forever. And using the same playbook from 1987 is not going to help us win in 2024 – that means we need to embrace new formats, new thinking, new talent, new types of content. It may be uncomfortable, but riding the popularity wave long after it crashed into the shore is what beached Blockbuster Video.

Dumb or Dumber: How to Handle “We Don’t Do Much Radio”

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Recently, an excellent prospect emailed me, saying, “We don’t do much radio, but should we change our plans, we will keep you in mind.” The client has several locations around the country, including several in my area, advertises year-round in social, search, TV, and print, and is a good match for our formats. They employ a marketing director, not an ad agency, and they seem responsive to outside ideas because my outreach email was returned in less than 24 hours. Call me Lloyd Christmas, but I am choosing to think, “So you’re telling me there’s a chance!”.

Convincing solid prospects to invest in radio advertising can take time, but that’s our job, right? To break through with this type of prospect, here is a multi-step plan to address their hesitation and show the unique value we can bring to the table:

1. Find the Pain

   •   Research the current marketing mix: Look at their social media, websites, and TV commercials. What are they focusing on—new locations, products, pricing promotions, etc.?

   •   What is everybody else doing? If their competition uses radio, point that out in your follow-up. Any case studies or business articles that quote the results from this campaign are invaluable.

2. Build an easy entry point

   •   Offer a shorter, event-specific campaign: Instead of selling a 13- or 26-week schedule, propose a tie-in event, like a grand opening, station promotion, or a charity tie-in using on-air talent.

   •   What’s their KPI? Show how radio can drive foot traffic, website visits, app downloads, Google searches, and whatever else should be important to them.

3. Make it Personal

   •  Endorsements: If any on-air personalities are known fans of the client or category, feature them directly in your pitch. Use spec spots to bring the idea to life and give them something to play for their other decision-makers.

   •   Events: Highlight how the prospect can partner with station hyper-local major station events to drive on-site engagement and community goodwill. Find their charities and reach out. If you set up the event to make them look good and all they have to do is show up, sometimes, everybody wins.

4. Follow Up

   •   Email: Once or twice a month, find a relevant example of a business with a similar reluctance toward radio that saw positive results. Dig deep. Ask other salespeople who have that category of client on air. Make that appointment on your calendar. Do it.

   •   Be ahead of the Seasons: Use seasonal ideas at least two quarters ahead. Sell Christmas in July. The bigger the company, the further ahead it needs to plan. Figure at least six months and often a year.

Staying top-of-mind and presenting local ideas with your talent can help prospects say “yes” without abandoning their existing strategy. I am telling you, there’s a chance!

94.5 The Buzz’s Theresa Loves The State Of Alternative Radio

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94.5 The Buzz Houston’s Theresa literally went from being an intern and part-time promotions assistant in Kansas City to getting a real opportunity in Houston in 2004, where she’s been building her career since. She is currently the Afternoon Drive Host (2-7p) on KTBZ and is also a National Custom and Format Center Rock Alt personality for iHeartRadio. “I am on air from Salt Lake City to Jersey and on in numerous cities all the way down to Florida,” she confirms.

Theresa was originally a Graphic Design major in college. “One night, a friend was on our college radio station, and we were all tuning in at midnight,” she explains. “I remember thinking, ‘I want to do that!’ I have always had a love for music. It all seemed like it was meant to be. I changed my major to Communications, and the rest was history. I truly feel I was made for this.”

“And the glory about ‘Alternative’ music is that the goalpost can move around depending on the musical climate. It’s never boring,” she says. “I love that you can hear Outcast ‘Hey Ya!’ back-to-back with Twenty-One Pilots, then into Metallica. Right now, the Country flavor is the main ‘trending’ layer in music. We even see it in our Alt world, and that’s why the format is great. It will always adapt, which is good! And that’s why the format will always be vibrant and continue to grow, while the base layer (the hits) will be the foundation songs that people want to hear. The format, in general, isn’t missing a thing right now. It’s doing what it does. It’s the audience that dictates what you are hearing on the radio. Different cities and age groups determine what an Alt Rock station will play. There is plenty to choose from, and it’s always changing.”

“For me personally, right now, one of my favorite bands is ALEXSUCKS. They have been doing really well with some good radio play. They have an edge.” Theresa adds.

As for how she feels about the new Linkin Park singer: “Emily Armstrong has amazing vocals, and the new music is outstanding. I personally feel they should have done all of this under a new band name, though.”

When it comes to artists like Dolly Parton making rock albums, Theresa isn’t mad at it. “Dolly can do no wrong. I love it,” she says. “Any spotlight on the Rock format is a win.”

“When it comes to collabs, I LOVE a major format collaboration,” she says. “Public Enemy and Anthrax. Linkin Park and Jay Z. Jacoby Shaddix & Carrie Underwood just released ‘Leave a Light On’ and it’s amazing. And I’d love to see something from the Deftones and Karen O.”

As for what’s ahead for Theresa, “I’m focused on keeping my job; after all, I have come this far,” she says. “I would also love to start my own business one day. My Instagram is loaded with clothing inspo videos and everything else in that realm. One day, you may see me start an online store and take it from there.”

Both Theresa and Morning Host Rod Ryan are celebrating big anniversaries at The Buzz this year. “It’s very weird to think that I have been at The Buzz for 20 YEARS!” she says. “Rod Ryan came to the station 6 months before me, so he set the stage. When we do run into each other, we laugh at our good times on the RRS, and it’s all good vibes. I always say on air, ‘Dad gets you to work, and Mom gets you home.’ People think we are all in this big radio clubhouse every day. The truth is we rarely run into each other.”

Having spent my own radio time in Houston twice, I had to ask Theresa how she deals with the heat, humidity, traffic, and weather. “It’s BRUTAL!” she says. “The Heat and Humidity create half of the road rage, in my opinion. I LOVE HOUSTON, but I dream of being on some off-the-grid ranch in Wyoming or something. I need winter. After 20 years here, I still crave a good winter.”

Follow Theresa on FB, IG, @TheresaRockFace

John Kuhn Brings Competitiveness From the Green Bay Packers to ‘Nine 2 Noon’ on 97.3 The Game

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Over the last several years, 97.3 The Game has held an annual event dedicated to listeners of its local midday show featuring former Green Bay Packers fullback John Kuhn. Nooner Day, as the event has come to be known, involves broadcasting the radio program live to an audience before proceeding to American Family Field, where the group takes over an outfield section at a Milwaukee Brewers home game. In previous years, the station has welcomed between 200 and 300 attendees, providing a means for Kuhn and his colleagues to meet the listeners and receive authentic feedback in real time.

The station has prioritized engaging its public in a variety of ways, which also includes a football game selection contest featuring a grand prize of dinner at a steakhouse alongside the show cast. Outside of these efforts, the Nine 2 Noon midday show regularly implements callers and text messages.

Media entities often use a variety of quantitative and qualitative metrics to gauge overall performance. While traditional ratings provided by Nielsen Media Research have conventionally formed the basis of the proverbial scorecard, digital outlets have fundamentally altered the equation.

“I want everybody that listens to us to be able to have a say because if we’re not listening to our listeners, then how do we ever know if they like, don’t like, agree [or] disagree?” Kuhn said. “The easiest kind of sampling you can do is actually listen to what they have to say, so I’ve always wanted to interact with our listeners.”

Kuhn broadcasts the midday program alongside co-host Billy Schmid and producer Armen Saryan, both of whom bring unique backgrounds and skillsets. Schmid went to school to work in sports media and is someone who Kuhn views as the glue of the show. Conversely, Kuhn regards Saryan as “somewhat of a neurotic fan” who is given prominent airtime because of his personality. Combined with his perspective as a former athlete, Kuhn believes the trio presents fans with informative and entertaining conversations.

“The more reps you get with a person, the more you understand them,” Kuhn said. “The more you know and you can feed off of their cadence, the more you can tell when you’re needed to jump in and help drive a situation or when to sit back and let somebody else go on a little bit of a run, and I think the three of us have really figured each other out and do well with that.”

Working in one of two midday dayparts on the station, Kuhn realizes that it is essential to have energy and elicit an emotional response in consumers predicated beyond traditional statistics. Bringing personal elements and contextualization to the airwaves assists in fueling listenership and maintaining interest during the workday. Kuhn does not hesitate to express his personality, nor is he perturbed by negative feedback or criticism, depicting the tenacious resiliency reinforced as a football player through his coaches.

“Even if you have a game where you rush for 100 yards and score three touchdowns, they’re going to find the one, two or three things that you need to clean up from that game, and they’re not going to let you miss an opportunity to get better,” Kuhn said. “I think because of that, I’m always open minded to what people might have to say, things that they don’t like about what I say or have to do, but for the most part, it’s very easy for me to be myself.”

Throughout Kuhn’s 13-year playing career in the NFL, which followed a four-year stint at Shippensburg University, he attained longevity and success as a three-time Pro Bowl selection. Additionally, he earned two Super Bowl championships in his career, the second of which came as a member of the Green Bay Packers. Kuhn tries not to consider his opponents as bonafide competition, an approach he adopted as an athlete.

Audacy recently announced that it relaunched The Fan on 105.7 FM, providing the audience with a new way to hear its content. With another sports station back on the FM airwaves, Kuhn is focused on the factors associated with his job that he is able to control. Part of that is candidly evaluating the shows when complete.

“Some people can say, ‘Careers are at stake here,’ or, ‘You got to look at competitors so that you don’t lose [to] your competitors,’” Kuhn said. “To me, maybe I’m lucky in the fact that I played a professional sport, and this is my second career, but I’m having a blast doing what I’m doing, meeting the fans that I’m getting to meet and talking with my co-host that I get to talk with. I’m having too much fun to worry about what any other station is doing.”

After attending the NFL broadcasting boot camp, Kuhn and former teammate Mark Tauscher started hosting their own radio program, titled Kuhn and Tausch, and pitched it to a radio station in Milwaukee. Furthermore, he took part in editions of the Clubhouse Live webcast from Gannett and tried to get in front of the microphone as much as he could.

By the time his playing career came to a conclusion, he received several offers and figured there was no reason not to move into sports media full time. The advantage he holds is in the ability to convey his firsthand perspectives in a discernible manner. At the same time, he is open to hearing other opinions even if they come from people without equivalent or greater playing credentials.

“I like to try and be positive upbeat while also giving others the opportunity to interject and debate with me,” Kuhn said. “I love to debate, [and] I love to play devil’s advocate and [have] just thought-provoking conversation.”

Athlete-driven media has perpetuated in the marketplace over the last several years and includes linear and digital content. Kuhn’s former teammate and current New York Jets quarterback Aaron Rodgers appears weekly on The Pat McAfee Show, an outlet for discussion that has produced several viral moments. Kuhn perceives these appearances as an opportunity for Rodgers to clarify things and explain himself in a comfortable atmosphere, and there are several other athletes who take part in similar ventures.

“These guys are making the money to go on here and do these shows or have a podcast and all these different things,” Kuhn said, “and they should because it’s their free time they could be taking either relaxing from their profession or taking to study some more film and make their profession even better, so it’s also a source of income.”

After retiring from the NFL in March 2019, Kuhn began contributing to Packers television broadcasts during the preseason and recently started doing color commentary. While he is on the sidelines as an analyst during the regular season, being situated in the broadcast booth grants him a distinct vantage point and ability to readily communicate his thoughts. Larry McCarren, who works in the role amid regular season play, is someone who has been an inspiration to Kuhn in the way he performs the job and learned the craft through tangible experience.

“I think that type of learning – it teaches you something that somebody can’t just come in and learn in a boot camp or something like that,” Kuhn expressed. “So, leaning on him and having him give advice on what it’s like to recover after a mistake, what you should be paying attention to, what you should be listening to, I think it makes a world of difference.”

Through his role at 97.3 The Game, which serves as the flagship radio station for the Packers, Kuhn has had the ability to work with accomplished and supportive colleagues. Tim Scott, who serves as its program director, is someone who he considers to be among the more talent-friendly bosses to have. Kuhn averred that Scott is someone who wants to hear input from numerous sources and demonstrates a commitment to grow the talent while retaining their individuality.

“I think he listens to very well to what his talent needs, what his talent wants,” Kuhn said of Scott, “and he’s able to adequately ride that fine line of, ‘Okay, we can’t let the cart get in front of the horse, but we can definitely make sure that the horse and the cart are adequately supplied so that they can make it a long, long way.’”

Over the course of the football season with hosting a radio show and working on the sidelines for Packers radio broadcasts, Kuhn does not feel fatigued or overwhelmed. On the contrary, he is looking for more work to add within his overall routine. Upon assuming and subsequently mastering a schedule as a professional athlete, Kuhn tends to yearn for more and create a better overall product.

“There gets to be a point of diminishing returns in sports, and I believe there probably is in media, but I don’t think I’ve reached that point just yet, so I got a lot of free time that I get to spend with my family, and quite frankly, if I wasn’t doing this, I’d be scouting or coaching in the NFL and I’d have less time to be with my family,” Kuhn illuminated. “That gives me a lot of joy, and that really refreshes me in-between any type of work situation that I have.”

Kuhn is encouraged by the consistent global interest in joining professional sports leagues and the new storylines that creates, providing more topics to discuss on the show. Going forward, he hopes to tell those stories as a color commentator in a broadcast booth, and he ideally would want it to be with the Packers organization. Over the last five years, he has continued to remain tied with the organization and remains motivated to stay active while eschewing complacency.

“I’d love it to be as a part of the Packers,” Kuhn said, “so eventually, hopefully one day, I can get to work my way up into a position where I can call myself a ‘true professional’ like my mentor Larry McCarren has.”

As Kuhn stays geared to continue demonstrating an indefatigable work ethic and avidity for the craft, he receives a palpable amount of joy from his professional endeavors. Professing that he is having “about as much fun” as possible in the current moment, he is grateful to have the flexibility to balance his work with family time. In considering the impact of the show, he hopes it brings listeners jovial sentiments permeated with effervescence through the chemistry, awareness and acumen fostered daily.

“I probably get more people that come up and talk to me now about Nine 2 Noon than I ever did when I was a Packer player, which might sound surprising,” Kuhn said. “Maybe it is coming off that I am a little bit relatable to some of the listeners, but I like to believe that they are having as much fun listening to me as I am talking to all of them.”

Tony Massarotti of 98.5 The Sports Hub Apologizes for Using Anti-Asian Slur

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98.5 The Sports Hub afternoon host Tony Massarotti has apologized after coming under fire from listeners after using a racial slur against Asians during Felger & Mazz on Wednesday. Massarotti was discussing his issues with Gen Z with co-host Mike Felger. He shared that he believes the Z stands for a slur directed at Asians that originated during the Korean and Vietnam Wars.

At the beginning of today’s episode Felger gave Massarotti the floor to address what happened.

“I did want to address this because during yesterday’s show while we were discussing baseball’s Gold Glove Awards, the voting and the data that went into it, I made reference to Tyler Milliken and people his age and their reliance on some of the metrics and how I didn’t believe in them. And in so doing, I used a derogatory term that was unbeknownst to me.

“I didn’t know that this term had a derogatory connotation, but I used it in reference to Milliken and his Gen Z brethren, for lack of a better term. I have since come to the realization that historically, there is some derogatory context for that term, which I assure you I did not know. Nonetheless, in so doing, if you are among those who I offended, I apologize for that. It was not my intent, I can assure you of that. I had no idea that the word had that meaning.

Massarotti continued, “As such, I won’t use it again. You’ll never hear me use it again, on the air or off, and I don’t know what else to say. I mean, there was no intent behind it is all I can tell you, and I apologize again to those who are offended.”

Sports Fans Consume 533 Billion Minutes of ESPN and ‘ESPN on ABC’ Programming in Last 12 Months

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ESPN’s fiscal year ended on September 30 and the network reports it experienced a nearly 20-year high for prime time and a near-decade high in total day consumption from ESPN and ‘ESPN on ABC.’ The network says based on third-party public data, the last time consumption was this high was 2006 (prime time) and 2016 (total day).

The data shows that during the past 12 months, sports fans consumed 533 billion minutes of ESPN and ‘ESPN on ABC’ programming with 202 billion minutes coming in prime time. Total minutes was up 7% and 8% in prime time from the previous twelve-month period across the same programming.

Other fiscal year information the network passed along includes ESPN maintaining its historical position as the No. 1 sports network in terms of average audience and No. 3 on cable overall, following two news networks. Across the ESPN linear platforms, the network had a 31% share of sports viewership.

ESPN Digital averaged nearly 112 million unique visitors per month during the last fiscal year. That average was up 3.2 million visitors or 3% from the previous record-setting year. ESPN Digital has finished No. 1 in the sports category for 30 consecutive months dating back to March 2022.

ESPN Social is currently on a 38-month streak of topping the sports category. This fiscal year saw 8.5 billion social engagements. Additionally, ESPN’s YouTube content averaged 48.5 million unique visitors a month. That increase is up 21% year-over-year.

Netflix Christmas Day NFL Games to Reportedly Feature Ian Eagle, Noah Eagle, Nate Burleson, JJ Watt, Greg Olsen

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According to a report from The Athletic’s Andrew Marchand, Netflix has figured out their broadcast crews for the games they will carry on Christmas Day. It is expected that Ian Eagle and his son Noah Eagle will be the two play-by-play announcers.

Marchand said his sources tell him it will be Ian Eagle on the call with analysts Nate Burleson and JJ Watt in the Steelers-Chiefs game which will start at 1 p.m. ET. All three work for CBS. The second game at 4:30 p,m. ET between the Baltimore Ravens and the Houston Texans will have NBC’s Noah Eagle on play-by-play with FOX Sports No. 2 NFL analyst Greg Olsen working alongside.

Netflix is paying around $150 million total for the games this year. In addition, Netflix will have at least one holiday game in 2025 and 2026 as part of the three-year deal. 

The games will also air on broadcast TV in the competing teams’ cities, and they’ll be available on U.S. mobile devices with NFL+.

The New York Post had previously reported Netflix had inquired about using the FOX Sports No. 1 team of Kevin Burkhardt and Tom Brady and that FOX Sports had declined. Marchand reported there was some hesitancy to allow Olsen to work with Netflix however that ultimately changed.

Netflix is expected to name sideline reporters to the broadcast as well at a later time.

99.5 ZPL Indianapolis Takes Home Two 2024 Spectrum Awards

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Cumulus Indianapolis Top 40 99.5 WZPL-FM has been named Station of the Year and received accolades for Best Promotional Campaign for its “Swiftie Swindler” initiative at the 2024 Spectrum Awards.

The IBA’s Spectrum Awards recognize the best in Indiana broadcasting from the past year. The 2024 Spectrum Awards were presented on Tuesday, October 15, at the Cabaret in Indianapolis.

Darlene Park, Vice President/Market Manager, Cumulus Indianapolis, said: “Excited for our team to be recognized for all their hard work and dedication to providing exceptional content to our incredible listeners. Serving the Indianapolis and surrounding areas is a privilege, and we are honored to receive the Station of the Year, Best Promotional Campaign, and Best Radio Sports Show Spectrum Awards from the Indiana Broadcasters Association.”

Mike Killabrew, Director of Operations and Programming, Cumulus Indianapolis, and WXNT Program Director, commented: “We’re very proud of our team’s work, creativity and commitment to their brands.”

Jimmy Steele, Program Director, 99.5 ZPL, remarked: “I am so pleased that the hard work and excellence the team provides every day to Central Indiana have been recognized. This team represents some of the most talented broadcasters in the country, and it shows in both ratings and recognition. These awards were truly a collaboration of an incredibly creative and talented team.”

Morning Show Bootcamp 37 Is Holding A Mystery Location Flash Sale

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For a limited time, Morning Show Boot Camp 37 is offering a “Mystery City Flash Sale.”

Registration is available for $225 until tomorrow night (10/18) at 12 a.m. (PT). The catch is that the location for Radio MSBC 37 has yet to be announced. The full price after the sale will be $465.

Tickets are non-refundable and are offered at the lowest rate that will be available.

Get them and more information here.

Fox News Sees Audience of More Than 7 Million for Bret Baier Interview with Kamala Harris’s

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Fox News anchor Bret Baier sat down with Vice President Kamala Harris for her first ever interview with the network on Wednesday. The conversation was watched by millions.

According to early returns from Nielsen, 7.1 million viewers tuned into the sometimes contentious discussion between the anchor and Democratic nominee.

The entire interview aired in the first 30 minutes of the program. For the duration of Special Report with Bret Baier an average of 6.2 million viewers watched the Fox News program. That marks the highest rating the show has received since 2020. Of the 6.2 million viewers, 746,000 came from the Adults 25-54 demographic.

Bret Baier received both praise and criticism from both sides of the political aisle for his conduct during the interview. The split was mostly divided along party lines with conservative observers lauding the Fox News anchor for his hard hitting questions. Meanwhile, liberal media members were shocked at the conduct of Baier, with some going as far to call him “rude and “a bully.”

The high-profile interview came on the same day Fox News featured a town hall with Republican candidate Donald Trump. During his conversation with Harris Faulkner, Trump addressed issues to women vote voters in the state of Georgia. That Fox News special received 3 million viewers, according to Nielsen.