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Pablo Torre: Sports and Media Executives ‘Very Aware and Very Afraid’ of Gen Z’s Lack of Interest in Sports

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Are young people killing sports media and driving the declining interest in sports? Mina Kimes and Pablo Torre wouldn’t go that far.

On a recent edition of Pablo Torre Finds Out, Torre, Kimes, and Dan Le Batard talked about what some in sports feel is a troubling lack of interest in watching and following games on top of constantly evolving media consumption methods.

Le Batard felt like time was passing him by after reading a section of an Awful Announcing column from over the summer that pointed out that millennials have shifted away from the more traditional forms of media consumption. Millennials are more likely to get their sports information from social media, YouTube, and podcasts versus newspapers, TV, and radio.

But while there’s an even more staggering decline in interest in sports from Gen Z, Pablo Torre reasoned with Le Batard that seeing young people as so categorically different from the older generations doesn’t help address the root cause.

“I think there’s a difference between us not understanding the direction things are going, and I confess I wish I knew more about the direction things are going,” Torre said. “But Mina I also want to point out that to make them into the boogeyman is to also give them a compliment that they have not yet earned, which is admittedly the oldest thing I could possibly say.”

Kimes added that there’s a lack of clarity in sports media about what the answer is to connect the younger generations to sports, but part of the answer is recognizing that even though the methods in which information is consumed have changed, the root of the desire to seek out information hasn’t.

“I don’t think that it’s fundamentally changed all that much to be honest,” she said. “I still think they want the same moments and narratives and takes and discussion and deeper analysis. But how they want that delivered is something that we’re all trying to figure out.”

Pablo Torre said the rise of the internet age has done a good job of sectioning off areas of interest, giving people choices to follow things they like and not follow things they don’t like.

“I concur that this is something in the c-suites of all these sports, they are very aware of and they are very afraid of,” he said. “But I would draw a straighter line towards just the general fragmentation of everything as opposed to a specific allergy towards the product that we loved and got taught by our parents, or whoever it is indoctrinated us into the cult of sports.”

“If you were to sub out, and I don’t have the numbers on this of course, but sub in movies, television shows, anything, the internet broke up and siloed everything in a way that prevents the authority of institutions for most of which in media was sports, let alone journalistic institutions in media itself,” Torre added. “It just sort of shattered all of it and scattered it across the floor.”

Kimes said it was clear this was the death of monoculture.

“Sports have inhabited that space in a way that it used to be like certain movies and television shows, and as everything has fragmented, they’re suffering from the same thing,” Kimes said.

“I don’t think there’s anything inherent to the products necessarily that is turning them off, although maybe there’s some polling that shows the lack of youth participation and then concerns about broader silo issues – health – things like that might matter,” she added. “But I really think more it’s just they have more stuff to do and things to look at.

“And so naturally when you have a generation of people who are interested in like a ton of different things and have a ton of different things at their fingertips, they’re going to consume the big things a little bit less. And that doesn’t feel like it’s changing anytime soon. So there might be a world in the not-so-distant future where sports are still incredibly popular.”

Will 2024 Be The Year Colin Cowherd Reunites With ESPN?

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With 2024 finally here, a number of sports business minds are making their predictions for 2024. Michael McCarthy had six guesses for Front Office Sports. They included everything from a big fat raise for Stephen A. Smith to the NBA getting into bed with ESPN. But the prediction that really caught my eye had to do with Colin Cowherd.

McCarthy wrote that he expects ESPN to try and lure Cowherd back to Bristol. To McCarthy’s way of thinking, Cowherd instantly bolsters the ESPN Radio lineup and the show’s TV simulcast would fit right in with Get Up, First Take, and The Pat McAfee Show.

It makes sense on the surface. All the two sides would need to do is find the number that makes them both happy, right?

But does it really? 

I thought about this a lot between the Panthers’ loss on Sunday and the kick-off of the Rose Bowl on Monday. Is it safe to assume that Cowherd would want to leave FOX, and if he does, can we assume doing the same thing for a different company would be his goal?

ESPN overhauled its radio product ahead of football season. Even with a new flagship morning show and new pairings across multiple dayparts, McCarthy reported that Disney did not feel like all of ESPN Radio’s problems were solved. In August, sources told him that the company brass viewed a reunion with Cowherd as the missing piece.

There’s no doubt in my mind that McCarthy is reporting exactly what he is told, but I do wonder if the belief that Cowherd could be an instant fix for the network was expressed as a plan or if it was a sort of “you know what would be real easy?” kind of thing that no one involved in the conversations actually considers realistic.

Colin Cowherd, love him or hate him, is authentic. Plenty of people in the sports radio world are driven by being the smartest or the most famous. If you’ve ever seen Cowherd speak at past BSM Summits, you know that he is driven by curiosity. He wants to be interesting and more importantly, he wants to be interested.

He will turn 60 years old this week. His name has been pretty ubiquitous at the top of the BSM Top 20 National Sports Radio Shows since it began. Leaving FOX to start all over again, even if it is a return to somewhere he knows well, would require a serious commitment. Is signing a deal to do sports radio for another seven to ten years really interesting to Cowherd at this point?

Colin Cowherd launched The Volume almost three years ago. He didn’t do it just because he thought digital media was a neat experiment. He went out and recruited stars like Shannon Sharpe, Draymond Green and Richard Sherman who could attract an audience. He added rising stars like Jon Middlekauff, T-Bob Hebert and Jason Timpf. He found social stars like Jenkins & Jones and put the promotional power of iHeartMedia behind them.

The Volume isn’t an experiment. The Volume is an investment in Cowherd’s future and the future of Cowherd’s business. He may sell a stake in the company, but given the public and private conversations I have been privy to, it’s hard to imagine him compromising the company in any way to return to ESPN.

Now, perhaps ESPN is motivated to do the kind of deal with Cowherd that it did with Pat McAfee, where the host still owns the content and his show, but it is licensed to the network with some programming compromises. 

But why would it be? McAfee gets paid a whole lot of money and, while the relationship has not been fraught, it hasn’t always been smooth either. As Disney eyes ESPN’s future as an over-the-top streaming service independent of cable, I can’t imagine the company wants to pay big money for more people and products that are not exclusive to its airwaves.

Besides, it is worth circling back on the fact that ESPN does already have that deal with McAfee. It might be easier to re-work the deal to include licensing the show to ESPN Radio as well instead of working on a separate deal with Cowherd. Just because they couldn’t get it done the first time doesn’t mean it can never happen. McAfee’s audience is younger and as brand-loyal as any we’ve seen in sports media. 

I get the appeal of a reunion between Colin Cowherd and ESPN. It would be big news while also being very comfortable for the sports media universe, but Colin Cowherd didn’t make his name by always doing what is comfortable.

The Colin Cowherd I have followed for the last couple of decades seems way more likely to re-define his show than to return it to ESPN Radio.

The Value of X is Now 71% Less Than When Elon Musk Bought Twitter

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The value of X, formerly known as Twitter has plummeted 71% since Elon Musk took control of the company. This is according to Fidelity, the mutual fund giant who was part of the investment group which helped Musk acquire Twitter in 2022.

Prior to purchasing the social media company, Musk was highly critical of the platform’s prior regime. He previously told Joe Rogan that he bought Twitter because it was having a corrosive effect on civilization. His prior belief was that the platform’s leadership and staff elevated left-leaning narratives and silenced right-leaning opinions. With an election year upon us, many are curious if X will operate in reverse.

Since assuming control, Musk has been in the news for firing thousands of employees, and taking a strong stance against the advertising community. During a business conference in November, Musk told attendees “If someone is going to try and blackmail me with advertising, go f— yourself. Is that clear? That’s how I feel, don’t advertise.”

The latest report isn’t likely to boost confidence in X. Fidelity is known to revalue private shares one-month behind. This means the latest details represent how the company views X’s value as of November 2023. It is possible that other funds may have a higher valuation of Musk’s company.

Fox News Leads The Ratings For The 8th Straight Year But MSNBC Enjoys Highest Growth

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2023 ended the way it usually does in the ratings, with Fox News on top. Despite undergoing changes to its roster and programming schedule, the dominant outlet finished first among all networks. Fox has now held the top spot among all cable networks for eight years straight.

Looking at the network’s seven-day primetime performance, Fox averaged 1.85 million viewers, which was down by 20% year-over-year. The network also produced 1.22 million viewers in total day, which was down 18% from 2022. Fox also swept the top five daily shows with The Five being the most watched at 2.89 million viewers. Occupying spots 2-5 were Jesse Watters Primetime (2.49 million), Hannity (2.36 million), Special Report with Bret Baier (2.07 million), and The Ingraham Angle (1.96 million).

MSNBC also had reasons to feel optimistic. The network was the only one of the top three to show slight growth.

For 2023, MSNBC delivered 1.22 million viewers in seven-day primetime, up 2% year-over-year. The network also attracted 780K in total day, up 6% from 2022. The top performing shows on MSNBC for 2023 were Alex Wagner Tonight/The Rachel Maddow Show, which finished 7th overall with 1.61 million. Maddow’s show, which airs only on Mondays, delivered larger numbers at 2.4 million viewers.

The news for CNN was less positive. The network finished 2023 down 19% in seven-day primetime with 582K viewers. CNN was also down 15% in total day with 479K. The top show for the year on the network belonged to Andersoon Cooper 360, which averaged 743K through December 12th. The show finished 29th among all cable news programs.

With an election year upon us, all three should benefit from increased interest. Other networks such as NewsNation and Newsmax should be bigger factors in the future as well. Case in point, NewsNation reported double-digit growth across the board for 2023, up 71% in total viewers, and up 100% in Adults 25-54 versus the prior year.

For now, the story remains the same, Fox is in front by a lot and it’s everyone else’s job to catch up. 2024 should be a competitive battle for the attention of viewers.

Mike Gallagher is Always Learning More About News/Talk Radio

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As the lead-up to the 2024 Presidential Election continues, one thing remains certain: this isn’t the first rodeo for Mike Gallagher.

The Salem Radio Network star has been discussing presidential elections for more than four decades. And while many outlets would like you to believe there is a general “Trump Fatigue” after the former President being in the political spotlight for more than eight years, Mike Gallagher says he hasn’t encountered that on his program.

“People who say that there’s a Trump fatigue really don’t get it,” Gallagher argued. “You could say there’s a political talk fatigue. You can say there’s a talk radio fatigue. That just debating issues — there’s a fatigue to that. This guy is a gift from the talk radio gods and in 2024 its going to come to a head, because who knows how this is going to play out.

“I haven’t witnessed any kind of Trump fatigue from my audience. I haven’t witnessed any kind of pushback. And I don’t really know if my audience is different from others. I’ve had a great deal of success in the last few years. And frankly, all of my revenue and ratings numbers increased exponentially over the last seven or eight years,” admitted Gallagher. “So, I think people in our world look to a sort of a Trump-friendly audience and that’s where we live now. It’s not going to be forever and we’re gonna have to come up with an act two when all of this plays out one way or the other.”

There’s been a seismic shift in the talk radio landscape in recent decades, with the genre moving away from more general topics to many hosts carving a decidedly conservative niche into the space. Gallagher is one of the hosts who has built a strong conservative audience, but he’s quick to point out that while he’d love to talk about more lifestyle topics, the audience ultimately gets what it wants.

“People don’t feel like they’re getting straight talk from the legacy media. They’re not getting views that they want to hear. So we’re we’ve always been billed as sort of the alternative media.
Now it’s almost all that, and I admit I kind of miss those days of coming up with and crafting a really unique original talk topic,” said Gallagher.

“But the truth is, right now people want to know how they’re going to pay the mortgage. They want to know if the illegal immigration crisis is going to cease. They want to know if it’s safe to go out at night to dinner with your wife and kids…I think the challenge for a good broadcaster is make sure it stays entertaining. Make sure there’s some levity, and make sure that there’s a mix. Because if it’s just all gloom and doom, and ‘The country’s going to hell in a handbasket’, that’s not fun. That’s no way to make a living. So that’s the goal: to try and make it as wide-ranging, entertaining, and compelling as possible.”

As his career has grown, Mike Gallagher has learned from some of the biggest and best talk radio program directors. He pointed to a pair of them as major influences in his success in Greg Anderson, who eventually formed the Salem Radio Network which Gallagher is a part of today, and current Salem executive Phil Boyce.

“Phil is, without a doubt, the most insightful, intuitive programmer I’ve ever come in contact with. He knows what works,” Gallagher said. “Working with Phil continues to be one of the joys of my life, because I just learn so much from him. And his instincts are so good…he continues to be a profound influence on me.”

Since beginning his radio career in Dayton, Ohio in 1978, Gallagher has seen plenty of longevity and notoriety in the news/talk radio space. He believes part of his staying power is due to his insistence on constantly evaluating not only his performance but the medium as a whole.

“It really just comes from years and years of doing it,” said Gallagher. “I study it. I’ve always tried to study it, get better at it, and learn how to do it right. And that, to me, is what’s really important. I don’t take it for granted. I think that’s one of the reasons I’ve had such longevity is I always study it and try to figure out a better way to do it every day.”

The industry now works in a multi-platform world, and Mike Gallagher is no different. In addition to his show airing on terrestrial radio stations on the Salem Radio Network, a video simulcast also appears on Salem News Channel. And while Gallagher admits having new avenues to distribute his show has changed him as a broadcaster, he still is learning about news/talk radio’s best practices every time he cracks the mic.

“I’m 63; I’ve been at this for 40 — almost 45 — years. I’m still learning every single day. And Lord knows now I gotta learn about streaming video and what light is better, and what’s not better and what’s the right kind of powder to put on my stupid, ugly face, and what sportcoat looks good with the blue background,” Mike Gallagher joked. “I am still learning. And hopefully, I’ve got a number of years left in me to keep keep keep the ride going.”

Zach Gelb Has Sports Radio in His Blood

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Sometimes you just know. There are times in life when you just have a feeling that someone is going to be something special. For me, that moment was in 2012 while covering the Super Bowl in New Orleans when a young aspiring broadcaster asked me to stop by and sit down with him for an internet television interview. That young man was CBS Sports Radio’s Zach Gelb who was in high school at the time but sounded like a seasoned pro doing interviews on Radio Row that year.  

And now, fast forward to 2023 and Zach has been promoted to afternoon drive hosting on CBS Sports Radio from 3 PM to 6 PM ET.

“I was thrilled,” said Gelb who had been hosting the 6 PM to 10 PM slot. “I was ready for a new opportunity to move up on the network so when all the changes did go down and I knew 3 to 6 was going to be open, I had that in my mindset that I was going to get the job and they went through the search and they thought I was the best person for the job.”

At the age of 29, Zach Gelb has accomplished a lot in sports radio.

After graduating from Temple University in 2016, Gelb was hired as Program Director and host for Fox Sports Radio 920 in New Jersey. From there, he went on to host the Philadelphia Eagles postgame show for 97.5 The Fanatic in 2017 and then a year later joined CBS Sports Radio as their weekend overnight host. In 2019, he made a brief stop at Sirius XM hosting on Mad Dog Radio and NFL Radio before returning to CBS Sports Radio in 2020.

Aside from his new show being one hour less than his evening show, it will be business as usual for Gelb who has maintained the same philosophy of hosting since he started doing this.

“I’ve always approached — regardless of what the time slot is — as if it was the dream job whether it was morning drive or afternoon drive on a major radio station,” said Gelb. “Not much is really going to change in terms of the way that I approach it from an individual perspective.”

Gelb was 8 years old when he first got the itch to be a sports radio host. His father, long-time WFAN producer and salesperson Bob Gelb, took him to work at The Fan in New York one day, and the rest is history. He sat in that day with veteran hosts like Sid Rosenberg, Joe Benigno, and Jody McDonald and would also eventually be around the likes of Mike Francesa, Christopher “Mad Dog” Russo, and legendary former WFAN producer Ray Martel, who is now at WCBS 880 in New York.

At first, his father was hesitant to give a thumbs up to Zach getting into sports radio.

“When I told him that I wanted to do this way back, he was like ‘Don’t do it’,” said Gelb. “’Don’t get involved in this business’, and I think that was his way of trying to protect me sometimes from the nasty side of this business and knowing that there could be a stress-free way of living and maybe doing something that could potentially make more money.” 

But once Zach Gelb started to get his feet wet, his father realized that he was really good at it so he started to work with him on his craft. Gelb also learned from people like iconic Philadelphia hosts Angelo Cataldi and Howard Eskin along with WFAN’s Boomer Esiason and Craig Carton.

But it was his father who enlightened him about the business side of radio.

“He was a producer and then was a salesperson,” said Gelb. “It really gave me an appreciation to the people behind the scenes. I sometimes know that on-air talent doesn’t always treat the people behind the scenes the right way. That will never be me just because of the way that sometimes I’ve seen behind-the-scenes people get mistreated.”

Gelb has learned about the business from a lot of people along the way and has taken that advice to mold himself into the sports talk show host that he is today. Soaking it all in was something that he learned from former WFAN and CBS Sports Radio Program Director Eric Spitz who is now at Sirius XM.

What did Spitz tell him?

“Radio is like a textbook and it’s free to rent out and it’s free to listen to,” said Gelb. “I’ve learned so much by listening throughout the years that I think sometimes when you tune in to me, you hear a blend of maybe all those people I learned from and listened to but then I put my own creative spin on it.”

And Zach Gelb continues to move up the sports radio ladder at a meteoric pace.  The dream started at 8 years old and now he’s residing in a highly sought-after piece of sports radio real estate.

Mission accomplished?

“I would never say mission accomplished this early in my career because I never would want to get complacent,” said Gelb. “Hopefully I still have a long run at this and I don’t take any day for granted.”

The run started as a dream at 8 years old and now it’s a dream come true for Zach Gelb.

WFAN Closes Out 2023 With a Strong Fall Ratings Victory

WFAN ended the year the way it started. On top in the ratings. New York’s leading sports station enjoyed wins across all dayparts as well as year-over-year growth in multiple dayparts according to the latest Nielsen Audio numbers.

Starting in mornings from 6a-10a, Boomer and Gio finished 1st for the quarter with a 12.1 share with Men 25-54. Their performance was best on the station for the book. The morning show was also up from an 11.2 in the summer book. Perhaps their best story was their year-over-year improvement. Gregg and Boomer gained 2.4 points from 2022 to 2023.

Turning to middays, Brandon Tierney and Sal Licata delivered a 3rd place finish with a 7.6 share for the quarter. BT & Sal were up from a 6.7 in the summer, and a 6.4 year-over-year. Over the past twelve months the show has improved its ratings by 15%.

The Fan also grabbed a 3rd place finish in afternoons thanks to Evan Roberts and Tiki Barber. Evan & Tiki captured a 6.8 share with Men 25-54 for the quarter, up six tenths from the summer book. However, the year-over-year number was down nine tenths from a 7.7. The timeslot was previously occupied by Craig Carton and Evan Roberts in 2022.

For 98.7 ESPN New York, the quarter produced mixed results.

Beginning with morning drive, DiPietro & Rothenberg claimed 8th place for the quarter with a 4.6 share. Rick and Dave turned in the station’s best ratings performance for the book. They held the same ranking in the summer book but improved their share by seven tenths of a point. Year-over-Year the duo improved the timeslot, which was previously shared with ESPN Radio’s Keyshawn, JWill and Max by 2.1 points.

In middays, ESPN New York came in 12th with a 3.1 share. The midday slot currently features Mike Greenberg’s national show and Bart Scott & Alan Hahn. The good news was an improved share and ranking from the summer book as the station gained two spots, and nine tenths of a point. Year-over-Year the timeslot was up two positions, and seven tenths of a point.

Afternoons saw The Michael Kay Show finish 12th for the quarter with a 3.6 during the hours of 3p-6:30p. The show produced the same share and ranking as it did during the summer. Where things improved most was year-over-year. Kay’s show improved by seven tenths of a point, adding two positions in the process.

With the Yankees and Mets not making the playoffs, and the Jets and Giants having bad seasons, both local brands relied on local sports talk to drive numbers, and the results were excellent. However, they didn’t gain a ton from increased play-by-play listening. Should the local teams start winning, and driving additional interest, there’s room for even higher growth on both stations. That’ll make it a fun watch in 2024.

“Ratings reports and analysis are written by BSM and sponsored by Crowd React Media, a division of Harker Bos Group. Learn more about the different ways sports media research can benefit your station and cut through the noise by clicking here.

Andrew Marchand, John Ourand Make Predictions on Next NBA TV Deal

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The NBA is going to be entering a new media rights contract at the start of the 2024-25 season, and Andrew Marchand and John Ourand have an idea of who the league will be partnering with.

In the latest installment of The Marchand and Ourand Sports Media Podcast, the duo gave their predictions for what the NBA’s next media rights deal will look like.

To Marchand, it doesn’t seem likely that Warner Bros. Discovery and ESPN will lose out on rights.

“I’d say right now Tuesdays belong to (Warner Bros. Discovery) during the regular season,” he said. “Thursday belongs to Amazon after the NFL ends. Then ESPN has the biggest package still with the NBA Finals. Then they don’t do Wednesdays anymore, as they try to get more marquee games.”

Marchand’s wild card prediction for the new contract was that the league would welcome back NBC into the fray. In his opinion, the league needs to add another broadcast TV partner in order to justify the rights fee increase.

“I think they’re gonna need, if they want to get to the money they want, they’re gonna need four entities,” he said. “And so I have NBC getting in there. I think Adam Silver and the NBA are nostalgic with NBC.”

Ourand agreed with Marchand on WBD and ESPN remaining partnered. In terms of the NBA bringing in a streaming partner, he feels like Amazon is going to be that partner. He thinks the streaming giant will take a similar approach that they’ve taken with the NFL and their Thursday night package, where Amazon will work out a deal with one of the networks to lend out broadcast crews.

“Look for Amazon and Warner Bros. Discovery to get together so they can share production, perhaps even share talent in some cases,” Ourand said.

Ourand liked the idea of NBC getting in again, but he thinks Disney is going to do everything possible to prevent split rights to the NBA Finals.

“ESPN really wants to keep the Finals,” Ourand said. “The idea of doing alternate finals with NBC is something that they don’t want to have.”

“I think ESPN is going to pay up enough in order to control all aspects of the Finals and one of the conference finals,” he added. “I think NBC’s gonna make a big run for it, but I think they’re gonna be boxed out for it by ESPN.”

In terms of ranking potential NBA streaming partners from worst chance to best, Ourand put Netflix at the bottom, followed by Apple. John said not to sleep on Google/YouTube.

“They love their Sunday Ticket deal,” he said. “They’re starting to get addicted to sports in the same way that legacy media companies have been. I think they’re somebody just to keep an eye on.”

Tucker Carlson Questions How Much Ben Shapiro Cares About America

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Tucker Carlson recently appeared on Breaking Points with Saagar Enjeti. The thirty plus minute conversation covered a variety of media and business matters, but it was his commentary on Ben Shapiro that raised eyebrows.

When asked by Enjeti why some in public positions have such strong beliefs over third world conflicts yet have less interest and care for issues affecting American citizens, Carlson fired away, taking aim in the process at Daily Wire co-founder and host Ben Shapiro.

“It showed the level of corruption, which I knew, but it also showed the emotional instability. There are people on the right who’ve spent the last two months every single day focused on a conflict in a foreign country as our own country becomes dangerously unstable, on the brink of financial collapse with tens of millions of people who shouldn’t be here who we don’t know their identities or purpose for being here.”

Tucker continued, “This is stuff that could destroy the country for real, and make it impossible for my kids to live here. They (Shapiro) have said nothing about that, and they’re focused with laser intensity on foreign conflicts. They don’t care about the country at all, and that’s their prerogative, but I do. I’m shocked by how little they care about the country, including the person you mentioned (Shapiro). I can’t imagine how someone like that can get an audience of people who claim to care about America because he doesn’t.”

Carlson also spent time discussing free speech, and the launch of his new network. He shared that he wouldn’t have launched it if it weren’t done for him. He explained that it was difficult to think about anything else when he was hosting a daily show for Fox News. His goal moving forward is to build a news network that can’t be cancelled.

During the conversation, Tucker revealed that he only reads independent media because he doesn’t trust anything else. He mentioned that subscriptions are an important part of his business model because they shield the network from being cancelled due to advertisers being bullied by well funded organizations. His hope is to cover stories that get no attention, some of the more important and interesting ones, and be as honest as he can be.

Enjeti followed up by asking Carlson if he felt independent media could rival cable television in terms of cultural cache, and driving politics. Carlson remarked that he felt network television was on borrowed time.

“I think they’re done, and for a couple of reasons,” Carlson said. “First is the business model. It’s too expensive. I don’t think NBC News will be here in ten years. I’d bet my car on it. They’re in decline exorbitantly and actually, the age of television went on a lot longer than I thought it would. I started doing it in 1995, and I’d grown up in it because my dad did it so I’ve seen it longitudinally for over fifty years, and I’m just amazed at it’s durability. But everything comes to an end, our lives included.”

Carlson continued, “I think they devalued their own currency by lying too much. You can’t be just a flat out propaganda organization for a company like Pfizer because it’s too obvious. When people figure out that that’s what you are and don’t trust you in a world with choices, they will choose not to believe you and then they will choose not to watch you, and the numbers show that that’s happening.”

Charles Payne Has a Foundation for Prosperity

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Hardships often mold success. And from the most challenging circumstances often come some of our world’s most refined and battle-tested entrepreneurs.  Last week, we explored a conversation between Natalie Brunell and her guest, financial television host Charles Payne, on a recent episode of her popular Coin Stories podcast. Payne opened up, sharing details of his childhood and early life, which propelled him to financial success and a fruitful and prosperous media career. 

After hearing about Payne’s foundation, Brunell went deeper, asking him to share the secrets to his success and pillars of his investing philosophy.

“So tell me a little bit about how you ended up in the financial world,” Brunell offered to Payne. “Because you told these interesting stories about how in Harlem, people would play the lottery. And they would spend so much money to win just a couple hundred bucks. You saw all this power and potential in the stock market, and that’s an incredible story too.”

“The numbers were everywhere,” Payne recalls, discussing the illegal gambling operations in his neighborhood. “On my block, on the corner, there was a number hole. Around the corner, the pizza shop also doubled as a number hole. Around that corner, another corner, there was a big one. It was operating in plain sight. They had the booth and everything. By the way, it was illegal but they operated in plain sight. And I was really good. Oh my goodness! People would always ask me, ‘Hey Charles what do you like? Hey Charles, what do you like?’ All these adults, right? I was really good at picking numbers.”

Charles Payne remembered that first winter in Harlem, where his family had no heat or hot water. He picked up, or invented, odd jobs to bring in money to help the family. From washing car windows to working at a bodega, Payne did whatever he could to help ease the financial burden on his mother. Later in life, when he joined the Air Force, he says he often sent 80% to 90% of his check home to his mother.

“I said, I’ve got to find a better way. And then of course, like everyone, you equate wealth to the stock market. I mean, everyone does that,” Payne said. “And so I started reading the Wall Street Journal. And back then it was so hard because it was nothing but lines and numbers. Lines and numbers, just page after page. It took me a while, but I started to pick it up.”

At age 14, Charles Payne told his mother he would one day work on Wall Street. Decades later he indeed became a stockbroker and eventually parlayed that experience into a financial media career.

At 17, he bought his first mutual fund, with his mother acting as the co-signer.

At age 18, he joined the Air Force, opened a brand new Dean Witter account, and bought his first stock – MCI. 

His choice for his first investment, in many ways, presaged his populist, against-the-grain investing philosophy that he would grow, nurture, and ride toward a life of accomplishment.

“Let me tell you why I fell in love with it. The guy who ran the company was a maverick. He was taking on the world’s largest corporation at the time, AT&T,” Payne recalls. “How was he gonna take them on? He was piggybacking off of rooftop antennas. We don’t have them any more. Young folks won’t know, but before cable and satellite, we had antennas on houses. This guy was piggybacking off of those to take on the largest corporation in the world. I said, hell yeah, I’m going with this dude!”

Brunell highlighted some of the major themes from Payne’s recently-released book, Unbreakable Investor, asking him why he implores Americans of all stages to invest in the stock market.

“It’s important because I want everyone to get a piece of the action,” Payne responded. “And it’s not just investing in the stock market. That’s just my forte. I think people have to find a way to make their money work for them. Some people do it through real estate. Some do it through other kinds of things. I’ve got small investments in gold. I’ve got small investments, I have real estate. I have collectibles. I have a Biggie Smalls doll I swear I’m going to sell for $100,000.”

Much to Brunell’s liking, Payne mentioned that his Bitcoin investment has appreciated as well. 

Payne recalled a story that summarizes his love for investing and for teaching everyday people how – and why – they need to take control of their lives and their financial futures. In his books and on television, he spends ample time explaining the nuts and bolts. The fundamentals of companies. The how of investing. 

But he remembered one specific night that explained his why. Why has Charles Payne spent his life doing what he does? 

It was one time when it was his turn to take his family’s laundry to the neighborhood laundromat.

“One night we were eating dinner and I wasn’t eating much. And my mom said, what’s wrong?” Payne remembers, his voice quivering ever so slightly. “And I told her about a guy who was working in the laundromat. You know, cleaning up, mopping, sweeping. And there was a raggedy doll. All busted up. Someone ripped this doll. And he picked it up and he looked at it. And he was putting it back together. And he looked at me with a smile on his face. He says, I can’t wait to give this to my daughter. Even though we were as poor as he was, I felt so bad in my heart that this man had to find a discarded, ripped up doll to give to his daughter. I don’t like seeing people being poor.”

And Payne thinks anyone, from any starting point, can improve their financial standing in life. 

“I just don’t think you necessarily have to be poor in the wealthiest nation in the world,” he said. “It doesn’t mean we’re all going to get rich. But I think with the right amount of sacrifice and the right amount of investing, we can change the trajectory for our future generations. And that’s why it’s so important to me.”

In his books and on television, Charles Payne has been an advocate for every man and woman. Urging them to get in the game, just as he did. 

As exemplified in his conversation with Ms. Brunell, Charles Payne thinks we all have the opportunity to propel off our unique foundations and build the best future possible.