If I were to use a sports analogy to describe The Young Turks (TYT) founder, Cenk Uygur, he’s playing with a chip on his shoulder. Uygur, a multi-talented and unapologetically progressive video superstar, is a man with a mission.
If you were to ask him about the state of news/talk radio, he would have a lot to say, and he candidly believes that radio is dying. His outlook is shaped by his rejection and the lack of creativity he experienced working for stations that he says refused to nurture new talent. He remembers what it was like sending 400 demo tapes out to program directors across the country and getting rejected at almost every turn.
The radio industry is badly in need of diversity, according to Uygur. He believes the current situation is unexciting and stagnant because most stations cater to a right-leaning audience, reinforcing their pre-existing biases.
Cenk Uygur suggests that the industry must take a step towards inclusivity and diversity. He points out that even Rush Limbaugh, who invented the radio format, did not become successful because he was right-wing but because he was different.
Similarly, Cenk Uygur believes that The Young Turks are successful not because they are progressive but because they offer something unique and different from anything else you can consume.
TYT was launched in 2002 as a talk show for satellite radio. However, in 2005 it boldly transitioned to the online realm. Since then, TYT has become a digital juggernaut, dominating platforms like Sirius XM, Air America, MSNBC, and Current TV. It proudly holds the title of the longest-running daily web show live stream, a testament to its unyielding online dominance.
What sets TYT apart is its audience demographic. A striking 78% of its viewers are below 35, creating a seismic shift in the media landscape. This is a significant departure from the typical cable news demographic, where the average viewer is 63 years old. TYT’s average viewer age is only 28, making it a revolutionary force in the media industry.
Ryan Hedrick: When and how were The Young Turks created?
Cenk Uygur: We started back in 2001, and we started as a radio show. We were the first show for Sirius Satellite Radio, and we wanted to give people an alternative at the time; there were almost no progressives on-air, so we wanted to be able to appeal to a large section of the audience that is progressive and it turned out we were right about that and so that helped us grow substantially because we were pretty much the only alternative for a giant percentage of the country that had no media that they could turn to.
RH: Why do you think there aren’t many progressive media outlets?
CU: Because of corporate interests. I don’t want to discourage people, but you’ve got to be real, and you’ve got to be honest about the situation. If progressives are challenging people in power, which they do, and they’re trying to serve the American people, and they’re going to want higher wages, and lower drug prices, healthcare available to everyone, then you are going to turn over your advertisers. Your advertisers are drug companies; they don’t want to lower drug prices; they want higher drug prices.
That’s why conservatives have to trick people into supporting them. They have to pretend that lower wages are good for you, which makes their sponsors very, very happy. Rush Limbaugh used to be very honest in telling you, “Look, I’m in the advertising business, and the content is just the filler to get you to listen to the ads.”
There’s a natural bias against progressives because of the structure of the business, and that’s why I economically started a show, but I had to start a business that can thrive while giving people the content that they want, which is a huge challenge so I’m kind of proud that we pulled that off.
RH: What have you learned about doing a successful digital show?
CU: In the old days, if you wanted to succeed, you had to please the gatekeepers. The gatekeepers were program directors or executive producers, and those folks cared mainly about the business, which makes sense. Hence, their number one priority was what their advertisers think. I’ve been involved in many pitch meetings for television shows throughout my career because I was also a television writer and producer, and the first question that’s asked if you’re going to start a TV show is, ‘What will Walmart think?’
If you want to do great programming, you should never do what Walmart wants. Walmart wants super boring, standard vanilla programming that doesn’t offend anyone, doesn’t excite anyone, and just magically feeds them pulp and gets them over to Walmart. So, if you want to appeal to audiences, you should ignore what the gatekeepers say, whether they are program directors or advertisers, and do shows that appeal to folks directly.
That is why you see the meteoric rise of online videos and news on the left and right. Without the gatekeepers, both the left wing and the right-wing started giving the people what they want, and some of that is great, and some of that is problematic, but some of what people want is problematic, that’s real life; that’s real people.
Now, you’ve got to find a very difficult balance: be populist enough to get big enough ratings, viewers, clicks, etc….to make enough money to sustain yourself and your business. You can’t go over populist into coo-coo land, then you’re going to get banned from the platforms, and no advertiser is going to touch you if you’re a lunatic. The reality is that you have to be populist without being crazy.
RH: What, in your opinion, are the things that news/talk radio is doing wrong?
CU: If we are being real, radio is dying, and it’s dying for a couple of reasons. One, they don’t have an interesting variety. It’s like wall-to-wall right-wing and extreme right-wing. So, if you’re a young person and you stumble onto conservative talk, ‘You’re like, whoa, what planet have I arrived on?’ You have to be a 75-year-old white guy, or we hate you. That is not a good business model. That is a disastrous business model.
Conservative talk radio has driven itself into a cul-de-sac, and they don’t know how to get out of that dead end, and I’m not sure they ever will. That’s problem number one enough to kill the entire industry. Problem number two is that they never invested in up-and-coming talent, and I remember that from when we used to do radio as opposed to now, where we do online video, which is an overwhelming majority of what we do.
In radio, I used to talk to program directors about hiring talent on the weekends, even if it cost you money. I went to Wharton Business School. I started my own company, which is now very successful. If you run a nationally syndicated show on the weekends, you have fewer costs; you might even bring on more revenue. It’s very seductive to go along with a nationally syndicated show and not have your local hosts on the weekends, but it drives you further down the cul-de-sac. Part of the reason I went to online video is that it was much more open, it had fewer gatekeepers, and we could do the kind of programming that appealed to audiences.
But another part of the reason I went there was because in radio, they never developed talent so I got tired of asking to be put on the weekends to give me an opportunity. By the way, I sent out over 400 tapes to program directors on the radio, and I got two jobs. One at WRKO and another one as a fill-in at WWRC in Washington D.C. But, 398 people said, ‘Hell no,’ and now we get five billion views a year online.
RH: Regarding YouTube monetization, what do creators have to do to maximize revenue?
CU: It’s very difficult if you are starting. Young Turks was the first partner channel for YouTube. We were the first YouTubers; now we are on Facebook, Snapchat, Pluto, Ruku, Samsung, YouTube, Twitch, and we’re on it. But back then, I sensed YouTube would be the biggest player, and luckily, we were right about that.
So now for us, since we have such a powerhouse, and we have over 25 million subscribers, it’s much easier for us to monetize, but when you’re starting out now, it’s a crowded field and very competitive, hard to get traction, and you better understand how to crack an algorithm. It’s not an easy thing to understand. So, if you think, ‘Oh, I’ll just put up good content,’ ok, maybe, but it would be a lot more helpful if you put up good content and knew how the algorithms worked so you can get in front of as many people as you can to give yourself a fighter’s chance.
