Jason Barrett takes the stage to introduce Day 2 of the BSM Summit, thanking the partners who helped make this event happen. Jason announces that the 11:15 a.m. ET “Dominating Digital” will only be WWE’s Steve Braband as ESPN’s Mike Foss was unable to attend.
But the big news is that Mike and the Mad Dog, Mike Francesa and Chris Russo, will reunite for the awards ceremony beginning at 11:50 a.m to present the Mike & the Mad Dog Award to Mike Felger and Tony Massarotti for the country’s best local sports show.
Already planning for next year’s BSM Summit, the location has not yet been determined. But it will take place out west.
Jason shares data from Edison Research’s Share of Ear study that shows younger listeners gravitating toward podcasts, while older consumers are sticking with radio. Yet the overall takeway is good news: Audio listening is increasing across demographics and regions.
9:10-9:50 – The Power Panel Revisited presented by
- Jeff Sottolano – Audacy
- Steve Cohen – SiriusXM
- Bruce Gilbert – Cumulus Media/Westwood One
- Don Martin – iHeart Media/Premiere Radio Networks/FOX Sports Radio
Jeff Sottolano – Audacy
Outlets need to focus on distribution, how to reach the audience that is increasingly going to podcasts rather than listening to radio. But that presents an opportunity. The ears are there; they’ve just moved.
We need to spend less time thinking about the boxes and more about the content that goes into those boxes. How much content ends up going into the ether? But with clips, we can make sure that content is available and listeners can find, for instance, everything we have on the New York Giants.
We need to be audience-agnostic. Listeners increasingly care less about where they’re getting audio.
How can new program directors, brand managers be developed? – We need to make sure roles are established and restored, so that pathways are available for those managers to develop. We have to invest in people with leadership potential. That applies to talent as well.
Don Martin – iHeart Media/ Premiere Radio Networks/FOX Sports Radio
We have a massive platform for podcasting. Colin Cowherd is an example who is working across mediums — radio, podcasts, social media, video — to reach different segments of the audience.
The infighting within our game needs to stop. It’s all the same business. On-demand podcasts and radio content aren’t separate; they just provide different value depending on where and when you’re listening. We make the message. How do we move this forward together?
Companies must invest in the back end. You need to put a great team together to push the content, to push the talent.
How can new program directors, brand managers be developed? – We need self-starters. People have to want it and go get it. It’s not up to us to make young people care, potential managers care. They have to care. We can teach them the rest. But it starts there and we can take them to the top.
Bruce Gilbert – Cumulus Media/Westwood One
Some talent is better at unique podcast content than others. So a podcast strategy is necessary. Who at the operation is best suited to carry that initiative out? Content is important, but distribution is king. It has to be available where people can find it.
For metrics, what we get is a small sampling of the actual audience. But the cream rises to the top, which is what the charts and data show. Talent, branding, and distribution is the most important.
Nielsen is doing the best it can, but the sample is way too small. There’s a lot of anecedotal information, but we need more analytics. Behavior needs to be measured. Where are people listening? What are they doing while listening. It’s important to be everywhere.
Steve Cohen – SiriusXM
My job is to get you listening wherever you are. Ultimately, this comes down to talent and giving the audience the programming it wants. But what we do with podcasting is different from radio, providing “snackable” content to meet the needs of the audience. Live doesn’t matter as much anymore for sports talk.
It all starts off with programming. Look at movies. Something can be No. 1, but it’s a bad movie. But it was promoted well. People were told about it. There was a game plan. The company believed in the product.
Do ratings matter? – The important thing to determine is “Do you like my radio show? Are you listening to my radio show?” If the fans listening to our channels like that programming, we’re doing our job. But we have to stay on top of what’s going on. Pat McAfee was huge for us. That was a game-changer. It showed us there was a different way to do this.
9:50-10:25 – Betting on Sports Media presented by
- Ari Borod – Fanatics
- Brian Angiolet – DraftKings
- Mike Raffensperger – FanDuel
— Moderated by Joe Fortenbaugh of ESPN’s Daily Wager
Mike Raffensperger – FanDuel
Fantasy sports have a built-in, unique advantage in creating sports betting content, reaching those customers.
Our content partnerships continue to grow. What helps is that even for people who aren’t sports bettors, sports betting content is interesting content and we can utilize that. Personalities who enjoy betting like Charles Barkley can help us, give customers something to hook onto.
Pat McAfee is someone who moves the needle for our business. He’s thinking about things we can launch together, looking ahead to events like March Madness and helping to plan strategy. Talent needs to have an authentic relationship with the audience. We’re not giving him an ad read. He has an active role in reaching out to listeners.
Brian Angiolet – DraftKings
We’ve been successful expanding from Daily Fantasy Sports (DFS) content with new products to reach an audience we already have and use that to reach bettors.
To promote our brand, talent has to be at the forefront to present authenticity. But there has to be a mix between traditional campaigns and creating content that reaches the audience in an authentic fashion, rather than just trying to sell something.
What do you value in new partners? – Media companies still tend to look at content as inventory. Relevancy, interpretation, making this more approachable is extremely important. And a live read doesn’t always convey that. We need to work together on ideas.
Ari Borod – Fanatics
What are the best aspects of the fan experience for sports and how do we build on that? Where will those fans be five years from now, 10 years from now?
If a media company or personality goes into partnerships with our companies simply to make money or if our companies just look at how much money can be made, it won’t be as productive. There has to be buy-in on both sides. We have to work harder to educate media markets and the audience.
What do you value in new partners? – The approach has to be, “Let’s do this together.” We know what’s important to us, but they might have an idea of what they want to say.
Joe Fortenbaugh – ESPN
Betting content needs to make sure it educates the audience. “Picks, picks, picks” is reliable content and it’s what people want. But there are so many terms, different sorts of bets that viewers and listeners don’t know about or need to learn about. Future content needs to take that into consideration as it builds.
10:25-11:00 – The Craig Carton Conversation presented by
Act 2 of Carton’s career, doing a show with Evan Roberts – It all started because Bart Scott said no! But there was a thought that because of the success of Mike & the Mad Dog that there had to be hard sports talk in the afternoon, unlike the morning. I disagreed with that. We have to be entertaining. I chose Evan because he represented things I never could or even try to.
How did you know a lighter approach would work in afternoons? – Total ego. I know how to attract an audience. We have to teach the audience what to expect. There’s a whole new audience that doesn’t know what Mike & the Mad Dog.
You can’t quit on what you’re doing. You have to give it three months. You have to train the audience. Sports is the baseline, but if you are tunnel-vision focused on just sports, I think you lose the audience. Not every bit comes out the way I want it to, so I have to look back at how the audience responded.
Twitter is fake. We pay too much attention to what’s going on there. Ratings, phone calls, tell you want the audience wants, what they’re listening to.
My kids don’t know radio exists. That’s a big problem for us going forward. We just have to produce good content and repurpose that content to where people can find it. Pat McAfee does such a good job of repurposing clips, going beyond what the live show is. If he was on radio, he’d be getting killed. We need to do a better job with that. We need to repurpose the best of our content.
Marketing to sports betting listeners – I’m a compulsive gambler. I’ve gone four years without making a wager now. Audacy doesn’t make me read that stuff on the air. They let me do a public service on Saturdays talking about gambling addiction. But I partnered with FanDuel because they’re responsible with their content.
I listen to a lot of gambling shows out there. No offense, but they’re full of shit. The betting expert does not exist. I think the best content is to just talk about the games. We can get into the spreads, but talk about the teams, what’s going on, and make a decision based on the information you have.
Working with program directors, planning shows – We don’t do a good enough job of teaching people how to do radio. It bothers me when I turn on the radio and hear them clearly mailing it in because they didn’t prepare. I’m there three hours before the show; I’m locked in. I know what I’m doing at 4:15.
COVID, in a weird way, exposed who didn’t know what they were talking about. The guys who are still here know what they’re doing. People might know more sports than I do. But they don’t know how to keep an audience.
You have to get out there and figure out what people are talking about. In Philadelphia, we never talked baseball. It was outlawed. You get to New York, you better know baseball. You have to figure out who you are as a show, who you are in a particular market. But who you are on the air doesn’t have to be who you are off the air. Figure out what you do well, what you don’t do well. I can’t read off a script. I know that.
I’m a radio geek. I love radio. We can reach an audience in ways no place else can. Podcasts can’t do it. TV can’t do it. Radio connects with the audience, and I love that. I love radio. I want to do radio for a long time. I missed it. I’m grateful to have been given another opportunity.
After a quick break, the 2022 BSM Summit returns for its next session.
11:15-11:50 – Dominating Digital presented by
- Maggie Gray – CBS Sports Radio
- Steve Braband – WWE
# Last-minute change: Mike Foss was unable to attend
Steve Braband – WWE
The biggest challenge was educating others while we were educating ourselves. We had to be almost like Kindergarten teachers in educating on digital content, platforms like YouTube, and social media.
Digital and social has come a far way from being the island of misfit toys. So much time and effort has been put into creating these platforms and it’s been gratifying to see how successful it’s been, how it’s broken through. Let people fail. Not everything is going to work. But trying is important. It may end up working for something else. Just don’t repeat those mistakes.
The linear television, documentary, digital, and social teams have to communicate with each other. There can’t be silos where this team is doing one thing and this team is doing another. You have to meet with everyone and discuss strategy, what stories are being pushed, which current stars are being pushed. But we have to understand each department’s goals — What matters to PR, what matters to sales, what matters to partners — and how we can work together.
Tik Tok has presented an opportunity for clips and videos that might not do as well on TV, like bloopers. We had a promo where Rey Mysterio was doing pull-ups in the background and then he fell. That didn’t make it to TV, but we put it on Tik Tok and people loved it. So that’s created a new opportunity and we’re going through our archival video now for moments like that to share.
The Miz is someone who goes to our team and asks how he can help them. What do they want to try? Or he’ll bring ideas to them to see if they could work. If you aren’t following him on Tik Tok, you should. He’s bought all the way in and it’s been really successful. More of our stars are getting that.
11:50-12:15 – BSM Summit Awards Ceremony presented by
The Mark Chernoff Award – Rick Radzik, 98.5 The Sports Hub
A video tribute to Mark Chernoff includes highlights from his career, including appearances on Don Imus’s show and WFAN’s Mike & the Mad Dog and Boomer & Gio, and testimony on him pushing the sports radio format forward.
Introducing Rick Radzik, a congratulatory video from 98.5 The Sports Hub executives and on-air talent with praise and compliments plays. Among the remarks: “Best program director ever.” (One employee took the opportunity to say he needs Monday off.)
Accepting the award, Radzik thanks Chernoff, crediting him as a pioneer for the work he did at WFAN, setting a standard and path to success for so many to follow. He thanks the staff at The Sports Hub that helps produce great programming each day and keeps the station running smoothly, allowing everyone to do their best work.
On a personal note, Radzik dedicates the award to his late wife, who fell to cancer three years ago. He thanks her for the perspective she gave him and their daughters on life moving forward.
The Mike & the Mad Dog Award – Mike Felger & Tony Massarotti, 98.5 The Sports Hub
Jason Barrett says he’s been thinking of creating an award to credit local sports radio for a long time. No one did more with the format than Mike & the Mad Dog, “blazing the trail for what so many of us enjoy today.” That leads to a video with a few of Mike and the Mad Dog’s best moments on radio and subsequent reunions on radio and TV, such as on MLB Network’s High Heat.
Mike Francesa and Chris Russo reminisce about the 2001 World Series between the New York Yankees and Arizona Diamondbacks, inspired by some of the clips shown in the video. The two them talk about making families and seeing each other’s children grow.
“It’s been 14 years, believe it or not, since Mike & the Mad Dog,” said Francesa. “We could not only do a good show, but could fill a building today.”
Francesa expresses gratitude for this award being named after their show. When they started out, there was no sports talk. But with a lot of support — including from Don Imus, who was crucial — Mike & the Mad Dog took off and launched the sports radio format across the country, in addition to inspiring debate TV like Pardon the Interruption.
The sports talk guy used to be the low man on the radio station totem pole. Now, they’re the most important person at many stations.
Russo calls it a “perfect storm,” with good teams in New York and an audience willing to listen for 24 hours a day. He also credits Radio Row at the Super Bowl for showing how the format was working in so many places and showing businesses this was a product to invest in.
Francesa and Russo took questions from the audience and looked back on their long career together. Francesa admitted that when he got afternoon drive at WFAN, which he always coveted, he didn’t want a partner. But he was convinced to give Russo a chance. It didn’t take long to realize that they had something.
But their long run together included some significant friction between the two when they weren’t talking to each other except for when they were on their air. Even during commercial breaks! Francesa admitted that he didn’t want Russo at his wedding, but his wife invited him and if not for that, Mike & the Mad Dog probably wouldn’t have survived as long as it did.
Following the Q&A, Francesa and Russo introduce a video of Felger & Mazz highlights. Felger and Massarotti were unable to attend the BSM Summit due to scheduling conflicts, but recorded a thank-you video for the award, expressing gratitude to The Sports Hub and the Boston fans for their success. They also thanked Mike and the Mad Dog for their pioneering work, saying they were honored to win an award named after them.
The 2022 BSM Summit takes a one-hour lunch, and then returns for the second half, led off by a conversation with Meadowlark Media CEO, John Skipper.
1:30-2:15 – The Day 2 Keynote Conversation presented by
- John Skipper – Meadowlark Media
Asked about the decision to launch Meadowlark Media, Skipper says he and Dan Le Batard had discussed a joint venture for a long time. So when Le Batard left ESPN, they announced their new endeavor very soon thereafter.
Meadowlark’s deal with DraftKings gave them the money to start the business and look to expand quickly. The company didn’t have to worry about licensing content and DraftKings helps with distribution. The partnership has worked very well so far.
Most of the company’s content is in audio right now. Le Batard still loves terrestrial radio, which is demonstrated in producing a quality show. Putting content online has provided unique opportunities, such as the live reaction shows which have been very successful.
Our business model is to have an idea, develop the idea, take it to potential partners for production, rather than try to produce and finance those projects ourselves. Going into Spanish-language content and women’s sports content are initiatives they probably couldn’t pursue if Meadowlark wasn’t its own company that can take projects to other studios and outlets.
People say they want to do more women’s sports, but they don’t want to pay for it. So we’ll make it, then find the right place for it, Skipper said.
“The status quo will eventually overtake you and stifle creativity,” said Skipper. “You have to try new things.”
Skipper points out that Le Batard had a long run at ESPN, but him leaving shows how relationships and ambitions evolve. Le Batard wanted to do content ESPN preferred him not to, and ESPN wanted Le Batard to do more of what the network asked. Skipper uses Bill Simmons as another example of how things can change, regardless of how well each side may have previously benefited. He credits Simmons with helping his success at ESPN, boosting ESPN.com and creating the popular 30 for 30 documentary series.
It’s hard to break through in the podcast space, but Meadowlark has an advantage with Dan’s show, a tentpole to build around and use to steer listeners to other shows on the network. Personality allows you to drive audience, Skipper says. That allows Meadowlark to take chances like on audio documentaries like its upcoming The Mayor of Maple Avenue on the Jerry Sandusky case.
Skipper says the future of sports is streaming. He believes there are some NFL owners who think the Super Bowl should be on pay-per-view. Look at what’s happening in Europe with soccer. If you wanted to watch La Liga, you needed beIN SPORTS. (Now you’ll need ESPN+.) That will likely happen in the United States eventually. Amazon getting Thursday Night Football is probably the first step in this process.
“You’re going to miss your pay TV when it’s gone because it was easier,” said Skipper.
2:15-2:50 – Talk To My Agent presented by
- Kevin Belbey – CAA
- Heather Cohen – The Weiss Agency
- Mark Lepselter – MAXX Sports & Entertainment Group
- Mike McVay – McVay Media
Heather Cohen – The Weiss Agency
Not everyone should have an agent. Not everyone is ready for an agent or needs one. An agent can be good for talent and management; we’re the buffer in between. It’s important for us to manage expectations, but get a deal done, find a compromise that’s good for both sides.
Transparency is very important. Give me the ratings, give me the data. I need to know what the revenue looks like. With that on the table, then management can see why we’re presenting a certain number. It’s a game; let’s just cut the game and get to the deal.
I’ve had management tell me they’re happy when talent has agents because the agent can have a difficult conversation with a client that a manager can’t.
I encourage my clients to do many different things. Fred Toucher, who was here yesterday, he has like 13 things going, not just the radio show. Angela Yee, she’s working all the time to get on social media to promote her brands — her coffee, her juice line. Does she want to be doing that all the time? Probably not. But she knows how important it is. I hate to say it, but those willing to work seven days a week are the ones who will be the most successful.
Kevin Belbey – CAA
I’ll often tell people, you don’t need an agent. But I’ll also say we’d like to work with you because we believe in your talent. For management, we want to make a deal that’s good for them as well. I think it’s important for them to realize we’re partners. A good negotiation should be, everyone wins. We want to cut through a lot of the B.S. and get right to getting the best deal done.
I tell my clients they can be influencers. Maybe you only have 500 followers or 2000 followers, but you can reach people that way and need to. They need to be involved in other things outside their shows, they need to have other things going on.
Mark Lepselter – MAXX Sports & Entertainment Group
It’s important to be an enhancement to talent’s career. It’s also important to bridge the gap between your client and management. Sometimes, that means protecting them from themselves in some aspects.
2:50-3:25 – The Art of Storytelling presented by
- Jim Cutler – Jim Cutler New York
People are deciding in the first 20 seconds of watching something whether or not to stay with something. They quickly decide if it’s worth their time.
Why care about storytelling? Everyone on social media fancies themselves a storyteller. And everyone is trying to get better at it to make money. Storytelling is really all we have when we’re creating content.
Sunday Night Football producer Fred Gaudelli says they prepare 25 to 50 stories ready to use for a given telecast. But the game is the primary story; that has to be the priority. We can’t layer in stories that don’t have anything to do with what’s happening. If it doesn’t fit, we don’t use it. Only jam in what’s appropriate.
Looking at visual storytelling, images alone can be powerful without sound — or accompanied by music instead. Images show you who the people are in the story without needing to tell you why or add to what’s already seen. But look at video games and how they’ve changed sports. Skycams and drones have completely changed sports coverage on TV. The “gameification” of sports storytelling.
But for radio and podcasts, the fundamentals of content have not changed. As Amplifi Media’s Steven Goldstein says, the speed it gets to the consumer has changed. If content is average and has no heat, it’s disposable. Another example provided comes from Colin Cowherd, who illustrated Manny Ramirez’s relaxed approach at the plate with an audio bit joking about Ramirez’s mindset, rather than just giving play-by-play or statistics.
Video of South Park’s Trey Parker and Matt Stone speaking to a college class is shown in which they explain the beats of storytelling and how to keep it compelling and moving along. If you have “and then” between moments, “you’re fucked.” Yet if it’s “therefore” or “but,” the story is moving forward. The viewer wants to follow along. “This happened. Therefore, this happened. But this happened.” It’s not just saying what happened. Each action begets the next one.
Authenticity is vital. You have to be real. You can’t show the audience the sell. If they see the sell, they’re turned off. Stephen A. Smith is authentic to the audience. Someone else who’s authentic is ABC’s David Muir. Colin Cowherd explains how admitting when he’s wrong comes across as authentic to the audience. He knows he’s “in theater,” but has to come across as a real person.
A brief timeout for attendees to recharge, and then we’re back to close up Day 1 of the Summit with two more excellent sessions.
3:40-4:15 – The Value of Traditional Media presented by
- Ariel Epstein – Yahoo Sports
- John Jastremski – The Ringer
- Kazeem Famuyide – MSG Networks
- Demetri Ravanos – Barrett Sports Media
Ariel Epstein – Yahoo Sports
On doing gambling content on terrestrial radio – The change was getting gambling language into regular sports news and conversation. It’s not just “picks, picks, picks.” I say how the line moves according to the sports news of the day, like Trae Young not playing for the Hawks tonight. How do you build an audience and get them to trust you? It’s having good information.
I used to post my picks from the night before to show how I did. But I realized that people don’t care about that. They want to know about what’s happening tonight. What can they hear from me that’s different from what they’re getting everywhere else?
Kazeem Famuyide – MSG Networks
On working directly with athletes – We can eliminate the filter with athletes and work directly with them, let them show their personalities and interests. Like we talked to Trae Young and got his 15 favorite songs, then we created a playlist. He’s more accessible to the audience.
On being accessible as media – You have to be yourself. People can see that. And MSG lets me do that too. I can show up in a suit one day, Jordans the next. But it’s all me and people see that.
John Jastremski – The Ringer
I want my content to be conversational, like you and me at the bar. I don’t want to act or come across like I know more than you. I don’t want people assuming I think that either.
You have to understand what buzz is surrounding your particular work environment. You need a sixth sense. If you know your town, you know what they want to hear. The NFL and NBA are always going to play. But you can’t assume either. What’s the story in your town?
On being accessible as media – Social media has changed how people see media. Like they know “J.J.’s a gambling guy” or “J.J’s a Knicks guy.” I didn’t know that about the people on TV growing up. I couldn’t ask Bob Costas a question on Twitter back then.
Being in a lot of different places, doing a lot of different things is crucial. You can’t be defined as one thing.
4:15-4:50 – Programmer’s MasterClass presented by
- Justin Craig – ESPN Radio
- Scott Shapiro – FOX Sports Radio
- Mark Chernoff – Formerly of WFAN
- Jason Barrett – Barrett Sports Radio
Justin Craig – ESPN Radio
How to select content – Play to the biggest part of your audience. The biggest names and topics. And then reset. What is the expectation of your audience? When they turn on your show, what are they expecting? And are you filling that expectation? Like what’s the first thing you think of with Stephen A. Smith? Yelling? So if he’s talking in a real quiet voice, they’re wondering what’s going on.
On ratings – I check them every day and share them with the talent. They’re our report card. Which markets are listening, which aren’t.
Scott Shapiro – Fox Sports Radio
On the clock and length of breaks – Ultimately, we’re in the ratings game. So the fewer off-ramps you can give the audience to go some place else, the better. There are so many options now. You’re on the phone. You’re going somewhere. We want to give listeners as few opportunities as possible to go away.
Mark Chernoff – Formerly of WFAN
I don’t like to overmanage. I don’t want to tell people to stick to the clock. For new talent, emphasizing the fundamentals are good. But it all revolves around sports. Content is king. It’s like being in music. You can play a deep cut. But if you play all deep cuts, you lose the audience.
I got the “POKE” theory of success from Eric Spitz (from SiriusXM). Passion, Opinion, Knowledge, and Entertainment. If a host has those four things, they’re going to be a success.
On simulcasting for digital and video – I tell the talent, remember you’re on radio, not TV. Don’t play to the camera.
