I remember the first time I saw the band 4 Non Blondes. It was in the office at a radio station on a VHS tape recording of “What’s Up?” Interscope Records was pushing the single.
Linda Perry looked different than everyone else. Powerful, unique, and strong — I was told — “She’s a rockstar.” I believed it then. I still do.Their debut “Bigger, Better, Faster, More” became a global success, and the song? A phenomenon covered and performed by many throughout the years, including Dolly Parton and Lady Gaga. Notably, the song is still gaining attention in the digital landscape.
*Editor’s Note: Answers have been edited for clarity and length.*
A Legendary Songwriter and Artist
I was so excited to interview Linda Perry. She’s one of the most honest people I have ever spoken to. Opinionated, yes. Authentic, yes. And correct in her observations — yes! Linda is an in-demand songwriter who has written hits for Christina Aguilera, P!nk, and Gwen Stefani.
She also has a beautiful new album called “Let It Die Here,” which was created after the filming of her documentary of the same name. With help from acclaimed producer Don Hardy, the documentary follows Linda’s journey through one of the most impactful years of her life. Additionally, the film explores the loss of her abusive mother, her cancer diagnosis, and her journey of self-discovery. We discussed music, motherhood, and more.
“Why Are You So Down to Earth?”
Terrie Carr: “There are people that I admire and there are also people that I’m in awe of. Linda Perry, you are both of those. I know you’re a very humble person. Ladies and Gentlemen, it’s Linda F’Ing Perry!!!”
Linda Perry: “First of all, thank you for calling me humble because I really do try to be. Actually, sometimes people are like, ‘Why are you so down to earth?’ And I’m like, ‘Well, I think it’s because I never think I’m good enough,’ you know? So I’m always trying to be better and better.
There’s so much room for improvement. And there’s always a better song to write. There’s always a better course to find. Moreover, there’s always a better way to be kinder in the world — a better parent.
So I think because I’m so preoccupied with that space, when someone says ‘legend,’ I’m looking behind me, like ‘Who are they talking about?’ ‘Did Madonna just walk in?’ I appreciate everything that you said.”
“Who Was That Moment for You?”
Terrie Carr: “Your impact on me as a woman in the music business who was finding my way was huge. I think you can relate to this — always being told ‘You’re lucky to be here’ rather than ‘We appreciate your contributions.’
I remember the day when I was invited into a music meeting, and somebody was coming in from the label. And I don’t know who the local was, but it was an Interscope person, I guess. They talked to us about this record that was coming out from this band, ‘Four Non-Blondes.’
‘And the singer is a girl, and she’s a rock star.’ Then they played us ‘What’s Up.’ But the thing that stood out to me the most was that this executive from a record label in 1993 was telling us that this was their ‘hot band,’ and the female was a rock star. For me, as a woman who always felt unseen, that moment clicked for me. And I thought, ‘You know what? Women can move this machine forward because this guy is telling me that.’ You were that moment for me. Who was that moment for you? Or maybe you didn’t have one. Maybe you created your own moment?”
“She was like the ultimate villain to me”
Linda Perry: “I don’t know what to say. I’ve been asked that several times, and I always feel weird not having an answer. But the truth is, the person that moved and motivated me was my mom — because she was so brutal and mean. To me, she was the ultimate power. Very strong and very mean. Yet I loved this villain.
She was like the ultimate villain to me. And so beautiful and extravagant — just a survivor. A survivor. I always admired my mom. People think that I should hate my mom for the things she’s put us through. But I idolized her because I knew, for some reason, I could identify as a very young survivor. I was instantly put in that position.
My mom had years to process the abuse, which probably came later in her life. It was instant for me. I was instantly born into the survival reality show. So I really think about that. And I still think that she’s pretty amazing. I just needed to have strength. And I needed to persevere. I needed to be strong. And I give her all of that — she built my character.
As far as music, there are so many influences. I mean, Brian Wilson. Karen Carpenter was huge for me because I could identify with her voice — it sounded like I felt. The melancholy and depressing sound, you know?”
“Karen Carpenter Was Huge for Me”
Terrie Carr: “That’s why I love Chrissie, because I feel like Chrissie is like a punk Karen Carpenter.”
Linda Perry: “Yes! But she’s confident and powerful. And Karen wasn’t. But what an incredible drummer. And nobody heard her. Nobody heard her cries, and nobody saw what she was going through. I identified with that. Mind you, I was probably four or five in the 70s when I heard the Carpenters for the first time.
And immediately, it wasn’t the songs — their songs are cheesy and not what I would want to listen to. But it was her tone. I immediately identified that emotion. That tone, that resonance, the sadness, the darkness, the melancholy, the laid-back quality, the understated vocal — it was so powerful. So Karen, hands down, from an emotional place. But Brian Wilson as well. Those melodies all felt like sad cries, mourns, a cry for help, you know? Those harmonies. I always gravitated towards the dark, this very dark, reflective, emotional sound. I guess I was emo early on!”
“Was That Your Idea or Did It Happen Organically?”
Terrie Carr: “For the fans, we have a whole Linda Perry experience because you get to see the documentary, which is so well done. My hat goes off to Don Hardy. And you have this amazing new record. Now, I’m not going to lie — if I were doing a documentary with you, I would be intimidated. I would be afraid to try to capture all of those moments because you’re such a strong presence. And Don got them, and you seem like you felt very comfortable with him. And of course, you’ve got this amazing record as well. Was that your idea going into it? Or did it happen organically?”
“I’m not a hit maker. I just write songs, and it comes from my emotion”
Linda Perry: “No, I would have never made a documentary. There’s no world where I call up some people and go, ‘You know what? Let’s make a documentary about me.’ No! Don and I became friends through this project called ‘Citizen Penn.’ He directed it, and he asked me to score it. We became friends through that experience. Then he was like, ‘You know, you’re so interesting. Can I just come hang out at your studio and film you?’
And I’m thinking, ‘Oh, everybody tells me I don’t do enough social media. So this is perfect.’ I said to him, ‘Can I use some of this for social media?’ And he was like, ‘Okay!’ He was so easy to be around. There was no big energy with Don around. He just happened to be there during a time when I was getting confused. I was getting confused about what my purpose in life was. What am I supposed to do now? Because at this time, I had been a songwriter and producer for almost 25 years. I was just struggling with things like, ‘I don’t feel creative. I’m not digging where these artists are coming from. You know, the work ethic isn’t at the level that I would want to.’ I’m not saying that it’s bad what these artists are doing, but it just wasn’t what I wanted to be involved in.
I’m not a hit maker. I just write songs, and it comes from my emotion. If it becomes a hit, great. If it doesn’t, I’m not sweating it. I’m not going to bed late at night going, ‘I didn’t write a hit.’ I just want to make music, you know?”
“Where Do We Go From Here? How Do We Come Back to Something Real?”
Terrie Carr: “Where do we go from here? We have so much, yet we feel so empty. There’s so much of it being thrown at us every day, but yet there’s an emptiness I feel as a music fan. So I know where you’re coming from when you say I didn’t really feel where some of these artists were coming from. Where do we go from here, Linda? How do we sort of come back to something real?”
Linda Perry: “There’s never going back. There’s just new versions. I don’t know why this is popping in, but I’ll say it. Justin Bieber came out during the Grammys in what looks like boxer shorts. By himself, no shirt, he performed. And there’s like this backlash — ‘Did you just roll out of bed?’ ‘Why is he wearing boxer shorts?’ ‘That was weird.’ ‘What’s wrong with Justin Bieber?’
And all I have to ask is — did it move you? Did it move you? It moved me. People have to ask themselves, ‘Is this moving me?’ The artist has to ask themselves, ‘Does this feel authentic to who I am?’ Or am I just trying to play a role? Is this the game, the thing I have to do?
Lindsay Buckingham and Steven Nicks just wrote a song. Adele just sat down and had someone play the same four chords over and over in this arpeggiated way. That’s what she is known for now. And Adele releases a record when she feels like it. Kate Bush — her labels would yell at her, ‘Where is our record?’ And she’s like, ‘It’ll be done when it’s done.’
She produced her record and wrote it. She choreographed everything and arranged the strings. I mean, amazing. There were no rules when Zeppelin showed up on the market. That’s what concerts are for — they are for the moment. Now we’re just sitting in our houses watching a concert. It’s a different perspective because now you’re listening for imperfections. And live performances, if you’re actually doing it live, there are imperfections.
The Beauty of Imperfection in Live Performance
(Perry contnues)…You go out of tune. But you hit things. You mess up solos. You mess up arrangements. Sometimes you forget words. That’s what’s beautiful about concerts. But then when you go see some of these artists, they’re lip-syncing. Everything’s programmed. So it sounds like you’re getting this perfect record, this perfect concert. And it’s a lie. It’s a scam. It’s a fraud. I think artists should be sued for selling concert tickets. The extreme amount of what it costs now — and they lip-sync.
That is false advertisement. It’s fraud. It’s a scam. And the audience, the kids — they should sue those artists for that fraud. We go to concerts to feel alive. We want to hear something that we didn’t hear before. And we want to stop in the middle of the show and go, ‘Wow, I forgot the lyrics,’ and then you have to restart again. That’s the magic. That’s the stuff that we want to go see. I think that the audience has a very strong voice right now. They need to be aware of their power. The artist needs to wake up. They need to start giving the audience something to fight for. Because otherwise, they chew them up and they spit them out. And that’s why there’s artists coming in and out so quickly — because they don’t deserve to be there longer than they are there.”
Linda’s “Let It Die Here” documentary will exclusively stream on 8/16 on Lindaperry.com. You can check out our full conversation below.
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