March Madness officially begins next week, and business is booming for both CBS Sports and TNT Sports. Several reports surfaced Wednesday evening confirming that the networks have completely sold out their inventory for the upcoming tournament run.
Speaking via a Zoom call to reporters, Executive Vice President and Head of Sports Sales for Paramount Advertising Ryan Briganti announced the sales success for the highly anticipated basketball tournament.
“We are happy to say we’re virtually sold out,” Briganti said. “This marketplace picked up earlier than it has historically, as [it] drafted off the strong demand of the general sports marketplace. That’s where we’re currently at.”
Although Briganti declined to offer specific details regarding the volume of inventory or price points, it is evident that the NCAA will be cashing in. Live sports programming remains one of the most valuable assets for broadcast networks, consistently delivering high viewership.
Last year’s NCAA tournament featured 67 games and generated more than $1 billion in sales. With demand at an all-time high, many industry experts anticipate that revenue will rise even further for the 2025 tournament, which tips off next week across CBS Sports and TNT Sports.
The CBS-TNT Sports partnership began in 2010 when the two parties agreed to a 14-year, $10.8 billion deal to collaborate on coverage of the men’s tournament. Then, in March 2016, both parties extended their agreement with an $8.8 billion deal that runs through the conclusion of the 2032 men’s tournament.
The tournament field expanded to 68 teams in 2011, and recently, there have been growing discussions about expanding it even further. On Tuesday, Big 12 Commissioner Brett Yormark publicly stated that he supports increasing the men’s NCAA tournament field to 76 teams. According to Yormark, a decision could come in the next few months, potentially paving the way for changes to be implemented as early as next year.
However, not everyone is fully on board with expansion. When asked about the prospect of increasing the field to 76 teams, David Berson, president and CEO of CBS Sports, expressed some concerns.
“No one wants to do anything that’s going to negatively impact the tournament,” Berson said. “Or do anything to take away from how special it is.”
Looking ahead, the NCAA tournament bracket will be revealed on Sunday night, setting the stage for an exciting competition. First Four action kicks off on Tuesday and Wednesday from Dayton, OH, officially launching this year’s March Madness frenzy.
Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. Stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.
It might not be easy to see a connection between news/talk radio and Southwest Airlines, but stay with me here for a second.
Southwest Airlines announced that it will begin charging customers for checked bags — something it has never done before — beginning on May 28th.
If you’ve never flown on Southwest Airlines, congratulations on not being middle class. But for the rest of us, especially those who live in somewhat rural, smaller areas where Southwest Airlines seems to thrive, it’s a big damn deal. Because not only was Southwest an almost universally cheaper option than American, Delta, and United Airlines, the savings was compounded by the fact that any passenger could check two bags for free. Genuinely, it was the reason so many chose to fly with the company.
But, apparently, Southwest Airlines was unaware of that. Or, let me rephrase: Southwest didn’t give a bleep if that’s why people chose to fly with them. They need the money, by god, because the shareholders demand they find more profits.
This isn’t anecdotal, by the way. There is legitimate data that shows bags flying free played a role in 97% of passengers choosing the airline. And yet, they’re kicking that brand equity to the curb in an effort to chase profits. That policy enacted by the company nearly 60 years ago became an identifier for the brand. It differentiated it between its competitors, made it a logical reason for customers to choose them, and those customers rewarded the company with their business. It might not be Capitalism 101, but it sure isn’t too far down the list.
How does this correlate to radio? Great question. Here are some other good questions: Do you know what sets your brand apart from its competitors? Do you know why listeners choose your station? Why do you do what you do on the air every day?
If you don’t know the answers to those questions, it feels increasingly likely that you’d be susceptible to making a bone-headed policy change similar to that of Southwest.
We all like to think of our radio stations as living, breathing entities. But sometimes, you need to think of your station or brand as an inanimate object. If you don’t take care of it, if you don’t do the things necessary to keep it performing at the level you expect it to, you’re going to break it.
Additionally, if you use your radio station in a way that it wasn’t designed — like using my grandma’s favorite vase as a hammer — you’re going to break it.
I think for some in radio — program directors, especially — tinkering is second nature. We always want to tinker with our brands, sounds, clocks, talents, and anything else we can try to put our stamp and individual flair on. And while I’ll never be one to denigrate the idea of trying to make your station better, you also have to have a great feel and understanding of what truly makes your station.
That’s the key. You have to know what it is your listeners expect. You have to know what your advertisers expect. If you deviate from those expectations, it can spell disaster.
If you have built your brand on an identifier — whether it’s news/talk, sports, music, or what have you — you can’t one day arbitrarily tell your audience “Oh, by the way, you know how you know us for this? We’re not doing that anymore. Sorry,” and still expect everyone to think you’re fantastic. It doesn’t work that way. It’s insulting, truthfully.
So, don’t be Southwest Airlines. Know what separates you from the pack. Know why listeners and advertisers choose you, your hosts, your stations, your company, and your brands. Because if you don’t, you might be in a world of trouble.
Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.
SportsCenter remains the foundation program for the gigantic conglomerate that is ESPN. The network’s inaugural program remains its most weighty. While ESPN continues to expand its programming lineup, SportsCenter is still appointment viewing. Viewers tune in at various hours to various episodes with various anchors to get the day’s news, analysis, headlines, and highlights. To channel Led Zeppelin, the song remains the same.
I took an hour on March 8 to see just where this venerable program is at and focus on two of its most talented anchors – Hannah Storm and Shae Cornette. These two excellent broadcasters have made their respective marks on the ESPN landscape. They both possess charisma, on-air presence, and the ability to draw viewers in and keep them interested. They are indeed two of the most powerful voices at ESPN.
Storm is a bona fide broadcasting legend. Through stops at various networks and in various roles, she has found a home at ESPN, not only on SportsCenter, but as a host of various programs. Cornette does not have the longevity of Storm but is well on her way to her own super legacy. Cornette is similarly versatile. Not only has she been terrific on SportsCenter but has also been the best fill-in host for Molly Qerim on ESPN‘s daytime behemoth First Take.
Cornette is not just another talking head. She can go back-and-forth with the highest level of debaters and is a sports fan. This is displayed with her enthusiasm and passion for the games and the issues inherent in those games. Calling her an up-and-coming talent would be a disservice. She has arrived. I look at Cornette as a shining star at ESPN for years to come.
Storm opened this show with her usual élan talking about the amazing, continued greatness of Denver Nuggets center Nikola Jokić. After decades in the field, it is nice to see that Storm can still get excited about a truly transcendent player. After the highlights, Storm moved to a stand-up exchange with former NBA player Quentin Richardson. It is a luxury for a relative newcomer like Richardson to work with a pro like Storm.
She asked terrific questions and follow ups to tap into his skill set and knowledge. Richardson had some nice moments saying that he’s not putting Jokić in the GOAT conversation yet, but that the Denver superstar is putting himself in that upper echelon of all-time great players.
SportsCenter stayed with the stand-up and transitioned to a look at the Lakers at Celtics matchup with Cornette stepping in to talk with Richardson. Cornette has a terrific voice that is cutting and incisive. She gets right to the point with her questions and steers the conversation. Cornette asked Richardson what the Celtics must do to defeat the hot Lakers. Richardson retorted that Boston needs to make Luka Doncic put him in uncomfortable situations, which is exactly what Boston ended up doing in that game to an extent.
ADAPTABILITY MATTERS
In recent years, SportsCenter has evolved from merely a couple of anchors sitting at a desk ripping off highlights. Interview segments have become a larger part of the program. This edition continued the trend as Cornette interviewed ESPN college basketball analyst Jay Bilas. Cornette’s versatility and knowledge of a wide range of sports is a plus. She is the perfect talent for today’s ESPN – proficient at anchoring, hosting, debating, and interviewing.
Bilas was doing the interview live from Chapel Hill before the Duke at UNC game. These types of interviews are always fun because viewers can experience the crowd noise and visuals. Cornette tapped right into this bringing the excitement from the arena to the television screen. Storm then stepped in for a Q and A with Bilas looking at the entire college basketball landscape.
Both Storm and Cornette do a really nice job on highlights. Their voice intonations and vocal variety bring drama and excitement to the presentation. In this episode, Cornette highlighted two of the NBA’s best teams – the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Oklahoma City Thunder. She then smoothly transitioned to Twins vs. Yankees spring training highlights touching on Yankee ace Gerrit Cole’s injury.
ENTERTAINMENT MATTERS
SportsCenter remains a colorful, vibrant, and fast-paced look at the past, present, and future of sports. It has also become a showcase for ESPN’s bevy of reporters. Storm talked with NBA reporter Tim Bontemps while Cornette interviewed NFL insider Jeremy Fowler. The ever-connected Fowler said that the Raiders’ first priority will be to sign newly acquired QB Geno Smith to an extended contract so that they don’t have to worry about drafting a signal caller in this year’s quarterback-weak draft.
When you think of ESPN football reporters, the late Chris Mortensen comes to mind immediately followed of by the best in the business currently, Adam Schefter. Fowler, however, is on the come up for sure. He has an easy style and clearly great sources for NFL rumors, stories, and tidbits. He and Cornette are an effective duo talking about NFL news.
This program took place on International Women’s Day, and Storm narrated a wonderful video package on groundbreaking female players, administrators, team owners, and trailblazers – an outstanding piece for sure. Storm is the quintessential sports reporter and anchor. Her wealth of experience and knowledge comes through in every sentence. She remains utterly dynamic in her work.
Many SportsCenter anchors have been about comedic slants, catchphrases, and over-the-top personality, and I don’t mean that in a negative way. I absolutely loved the greats like Dan Patrick, Keith Olbermann, Chris Berman, the late Stuart Scott, Rich Eisen, John Anderson, Linda Cohn, and many others. Storm and Cornette don’t do catchphrases, but they are as electric and fascinating to watch as any of the aforementioned talents.
QUALITY MATTERS
The SportsCenter production staff is always on point with some quick-hitting video interstitials and graphics as subject matter transitions from one topic to another. This episode moved through a few different sports, all the contending teams, and some recent matchups and players. In the shows final block, Storm and Cornette threw to ESPN’s College GameDay crew as well as the NBA Countdown anchors. The show ended with Storm and Cornette having a fun time with the always anticipated SportsCenter Top 10 plays of the day.
Through all the years, all the anchors, and all the moments, I see SportsCenter as the most anticipated sports program on television. Storm and Cornette are more than up to the task of presenting this important show that has become part of the sports fan’s daily routine. Moreover, they are fun, exciting, riveting, and fully tapped into the psyches of these sports fans.
Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.
Meet The Podcasters is a special 9-week series created in partnership with Point to Point Marketing. Our second feature is on founder and President of the Locked On Podcast Network, David Locke. Follow along with the series, and revisit former conversations by checking out the entire category.
During his earlier days as a program director, Locke’s foresight into the world of podcasting attempting to serve local audiences has led from a scale of a single podcast surrounding the Utah Jazz to over 210 daily podcasts in 92 markets. Locke hosts his own Locked On Jazz podcast, while he also serves as the radio play-by-play voice of the Jazz since 2009.
In this edition of our ‘Meet The Podcasters’ series, we dove into the inception of the Locked On Podcast model, as well as how talent are recruited on a local scale. David also discussed the 2021 acquisition by the TEGNA media company, and how it transformed the Locked On business model for long term and sustained success.
David Locke spoke with Barrett Media on his way to call the latest Utah Jazz basketball game.
*Editor’s Note: Answers have been edited for clarity and length.*
John Mamola: Locked On has been around since 2016. Tons of traffic with a number of different brands in each individual market. Let’s go back to the initial concept. You’ve been a radio guy for a long time. What made you think of something like Locked On? Are you stunned or do you feel this exactly how the plan should’ve happened based off what your initial idea was for the podcast network?
David Locke: The initial idea was that people are doing podcasts, and they’re all doing them on a national level. I was a program director for sports talk radio for many years, and knew that as great as Jim Rome was, and as great as Dan Patrick was; the local shows always got better ratings. The fans are fans of a team before a league. That was the original idea.
With podcasting, local is where fans are. You’re a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers and not of the NFL. That was the thought was, that would drive the audience because they want to talk about their local teams.
Part two was at that time when we launched Locked On, there had never been a local podcast that had been able to make money. We had to figure out how to make a local podcast make money.
So I used a Jim Rome or Dan Patrick model, which was if we get Jim Rome in 52 different markets and they sell over 50 markets and that’s how they’re selling it. we can do the same thing. We’ll take all of our NBA shows, and sell them as one entity. That allowed the client to get the best opportunity of audience.
Then if you start to dig into the third layer of it, I realized the sports radio listener is really attached to their local sports talk radio host. That’s a pretty important person, because you listen to them a lot in your daily life. So, we produce daily content, and just again put it into context. This was before the New York Times’ The Daily, and before NPR’s Up First. Very few people are doing daily. There were a few but they weren’t a big box type of show that are now daily.
We thought we could create that same connection between listener and host by being daily. The last piece of the puzzle was that’s incredible for a client. The client has maybe 30 live reads being read from 30 different hosts. Which is a little nontraditional, and it took a long time to get people to understand that. They’re getting a live read from a host just talking about the listener’s favorite team, who they’re with every day who they’re incredibly connected with. We knew we were going to be able to provide in incredible results for clients.
That kind of foresight was how we thought it would play. It was the idea. That was the vision. The truth is like my kids were super expensive, and I needed to pay for some of their activities. The vision was never this. Where we are today is mind blowing.
We didn’t do it because we thought it was a bad idea, but I’m not sure I ever thought we’d hit these numbers. We’re the largest sports podcast network in the country. I’m not sure I ever envisioned that. It’s pretty surprising where we are, but I actually think we have a whole quantum jump from where we are today to where we can go. That’s the most exciting part.
Screengrab: Locked On Podcast Network LinkedIn
John Mamola: I saw the graphic Locked On posted regarding Super Bowl week. 9.9 million listens and views combined. The network’s largest views and listen day ever. Congratulations on that.
You talked about going into each individual market and having people that identify with the fan base of those individual teams. That’s a huge challenge. You’re recruiting talent in each individual pro and collegiate city. What is the process of recruiting talent on such a massive scale to attract people to come to Locked On? Do talent reach out, or do you reach out to talent? Is it a combination of both? What requirements do you think fit for somebody that you welcome into Locked On?
David Locke: I want someone who is smart and passionate. That is the qualification. That will carry most things in life. They could be an expert on their team, but truly smart and passionate. We pride ourselves in being the most talent-friendly media organization in the country.
That’s our goal.
When I say talent friendly, that doesn’t mean you just get to go do whatever you want. Talent-friendly is we’re going to support you; we’re going to give you coaching. We’re going to work with you so that we give you a chance for success. We’re going to provide AI platforms for you. We’re going to provide resources for you. We’re going to research the industry to know what works. Then advise you on how to do things, and give you every chance for success possible.
We’re hopefully the best atmosphere talent can find.
I’m talent, still. I’m not an entrepreneur. I’m not a CEO. Everyone else is propping up at this point, I’m talent. I want this to be the most talent-friendly organization out there. You got to show up for work. You don’t get carte blanche, but we’re going to support you like you’ve never felt in any other organization you’ve worked for.
We have Tom Lee, another great sports radio program director, as our director of talent and scouting. He’s scouring everyone all the time, and looking for people to see who’s out there. Our primary goal is to coach and develop our talent into stars.
John Mamola: Looking back when TEGNA acquired Locked On in 2021. Would you say that acquisition led to more structure of how the business of Locked On is currently? How has TEGNA created more impact for the company?
David Locke: TEGNA has just elevated us totally different levels that we probably couldn’t have gotten to all by ourselves. They’ve given us amazing support while simultaneously not touching the culture of the company for one second.
It’s incredible.
They have pushed us, and given us support. Commanded us to get better, and given us support to do that in great ways. I think in ways we would’ve probably done ourselves; but we’ve been able to do more, and grow faster to reach places we couldn’t have reached without them.
The leadership including Adam Ostrow, our chief digital officer. He’s been amazing. He oversees us, and he advises. Again, he’s never touched the culture of the company which I think is a little different.
It’s talent first. It is unquestionably built and made for talent to have that environment I spoke of before. I’m not sure that there’s a lot of places like that. I’m not the traditional leader in any fashion, because I don’t know what I’m doing.
Carl Weinstein, who is our COO, understands how to run business. Kylee Yong, she’s our head of operations. Those two hold everything together for me. They understand how to actually make a business work, it’s been amazing.
TEGNA has been incredible to us. We thought it was a good mix cause they’re local, and we’re local and we thought it was a nice compliment. It’s been better than I ever imagined.
John Mamola: For a great number of talent around the country, in my estimation they don’t know a lot about the podcasting space. As a talent, what is something that that you’ve been stunned to learn about the space that maybe you didn’t know in your previous life in radio?
David Locke: When you were a program director, your guys are going to break. They got to tease what’s up to keep the listener with them. I think that’s true with podcasting too.
I think the mistakes that are made are when talent think the fundamentals that came from audio, when it was coming through a radio rather through your phone or an app, are not true anymore. If you listen to a Locked On show, and then you listen to another Locked On show.
The way I phrase it our talent is I need to know what the front door is, where the back door is, and where the bathroom is. Those are going to be the same on all of our shows. The middle, and how you decorate that room is up to you. That’s your brilliance, your talent, your greatness.
We need you to have the front door be the same. The back door be the same, and the bathroom be the same. How you design and decorate your building it’s up to you. I’m not sure if that’s entirely different than a really good sports talk show either. I have been a believer from the very beginning it was a different delivery mechanism more than a different space.
John Mamola: Regarding video, a visual presentation of a podcast is more popular than ever. Video is now more than ever a growing way people are consuming podcast content. From Locked On’s perspective, do you ever see a point in time where the video presentation completely outweighs what the demand for the audio product is going to be?
David Locke:You don’t think we’re already there?
Every single one of our podcasts is now on video. That was the biggest thing TEGNA has done for us. It’s a massive part of our audience. I think the question is will we all be listening. We’re still going to be listening in our cars driving. Listening on our runs in our workouts, gardening and doing whatever we’re doing. Is that going to be on a video platform where we just click a button that says audio only? Maybe.
John Mamola: Final question for you. If you’re standing next to a complete stranger who knows nothing about podcasting, and they ask you what’s a podcast?
David Locke: I don’t have any idea. I mean, we talk about it all the time internally. It’s on demand, that’s the only thing I know. It’s on demand content that’s generally, but not always, more niche than what was traditional media. But that’s not totally true.
What I really think is interesting to your question. Check out a Locked On newsletter, it’s kind of like our podcast. So is a podcast written form too? Is a podcast the Snapchat clip I get from All The Smoke for three and a half minutes from all their episodes? They do such a brilliant job of mini formatted content of their podcast
Our goal is to become the local sports leader. We are your local source for local sports as newspapers fade and sports radio companies do whatever they’re doing. We as Locked On can become if you want local sports, you’re getting it from Locked On in every platform form imaginable.
I think the future is that it’s going to all get customized for each of us based on our desires of what we want, and how we want to receive our content. That might change throughout a day. In the morning, you might want to read. In the afternoon, you might want little Instagram reels. In the afternoon, you might want long form because you’re going to go work out. In the evening, you might want video to just sit on your couch.
Our job as Locked On is to be there for you in every single realm of how you want your content, and it all might be the same podcast coming to you in every which way.
To learn more about Point-To-Point Marketing’s Podcast and Broadcast Audience Development Marketing strategies, contact Tim Bronsil at tim@ptpmarketing.com or 513-702-5072.
I was chatting with one of radio’s heaviest heavies in New York over the weekend, and we were noting one of the many self-inflicted wounds radio has given itself is grossly underpaying most of the few who continue to survive the constant grim reaper of corporate RIFs lurking around every turn.
Without solid compensation, how could radio possibly expect to attract and maintain the content creators and personalities needed to compete in a fragmented media environment, I wondered. This luminary came back with this: “radio talents are not the haves and have nots, there is no radio middle class.”
I’d never heard it put quite that way, but much like this country’s politics, “it’s the economy stupid” in radio too, where most expect to do well enough, many don’t do well at all, and a few do terrific.
Again, like our current political environment, in radio there is an upper crust at the top reaping what benefits of the changing ecosystem exist while most aren’t doing very well at all or outright badly (which still beats being laid off).
Radio has historically poorly compensated talent from the beginning of the music radio era in medium and smaller markets and stations, but the allure of a career path leading to big city, big-time fame and fortune always seemed attainable for the talented, hardworking, and ambitious.
Today, not so much. It’s just another reason many in radio will whisper “radio is dying a slow painful death”. Don’t tell that to the hundreds of college and broadcast school students I interacted with at the IBS conference presented by Talkers in the Big Apple.
More so than even the past two years I attended, I met young hopefuls after another, not worried about job opportunities, big bad corporate radio, or low salary, but rather filled with ideas of covering local sports, creating fresh morning shows, broadening the music format offerings available, and even logo design and marketing.
I watched students exchange business cards and handshakes with each other and media pros alike, and most enjoyed hearing them talk about hearing radio at a young age and wanting to pursue it.
It also occurred to me that as I begin my 32nd year in commercial radio this week, I am at the mid- to down slope of my career in this current doldrums, but I am part of the bridge between the old guard of legends I got to work with at my start and this new generation of digital natives fully entranced by a medium born more than a century ago.
Maybe just maybe, if we can get the current robber barons out of radio, and for private equity to cut their losses and sell those of us still in it, and these new hungry rebels looking to break in can finally set this good ship radio right.
Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.
Imagine you did a promotion 33 years ago that people are still talking about today. Granted, times have changed, and now there are lawyers in the C Suite who will stop many things before they even get out of the Promo Meeting brainstorm.
But are you really doing anything that will stand out and be remembered even six months from now? Are you recycling the same things that you do year after year because, “that’s the way you have always done it.”
Bob Rivers passed away on Tuesday. Rivers was known for so many things. 25 years in Seattle radio, Twisted Tunes and a 1992 promotion called, “Nudestock.”
Yes, it is exactly what you think. Listeners, bands and even Rivers himself at the event au natural.
Before we go any further, I’m not suggesting you throw a party and have your listeners strip and go naked. The point is that when Rivers passed, people were still talking about it.
What have you done promotionally to create a legacy? I have more than once expressed my disdain for caller number nine and my love for people that seize the moment.
Spring and Summer are here. What have you got planned? Let’s brainstorm some timely topics as idea starters.
Spring Break. It’s not just for the 18 and 20 somethings. I was a fan of come-along trips. (Mainly because I got to go along). I live in Las Vegas, a 24/7 365 town, spring break town, and I get to see many friends when they visit. I recently met up with friends that had been on one of those trips 20 years ago and the first thing we talked about was the shenanigans in Ixtapa.
Egg prices. I recently saw a station that gave away chickens. A cute way to attach themselves to the issue in a positive way. What about a virtual egg hunt where you hide an egg on pages within your website? Listeners who collect all the eggs go into a drawing for an Eggcellent grand prize.
Truck and car prices. I once did a promotion called “Truck Load Of Tunes.” At the time CDs were still a thing, but you can use album art just as effectively. We filled the bed of the truck with CDs and album art and listeners had to guess the total number of songs in the “Truckload of Tunes.” Make sure all album art is visible. Closest to the exact number without going over wins the truck and the tunes.
That reminds me of a sidebar issue here and another lesson, unfortunately, learned the hard way. If you’re drawing winners from something where a guess to the total number of anything, make sure you carefully word the rules. Never say, “we will draw from all correct entries.” If you do that, you must go through every entry. Instead, always state, “First correct entry drawn” will save a lot of time and effort.
DOGE is top-of-mind, so stay away from it. I recently saw something I thought was a clever use of the term in a non-political topic tease sort of way. When I reached out, I discovered it had not been such a good thing. The entire message was lost in America’s love/hate relationship with Elon Musk.
So back to the original question. What have you done or doing that will be memorable?
Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.
John Lund is President of the Reno-based Lund Media Group. He consults on radio, podcasting, and digital media and publishes “The Lund Letter,” a program and marketing newsletter.
This feature was inspired by a recent edition of “The Lund Letter.” In that edition, Lund stated his belief that 78 percent of all radio stations are playing the wrong music and that it is time to DOGE your playlist.
In this case, it stood for Duplicates, Oldies, Garbage, and Extras. This clever use of the term to describe the makeup of a radio station’s playlist caught my attention, leading to me catching up with Lund.
While I thought it was clever, it seems that in today’s political climate, no political reference goes unpunished regardless of its intended meaning.
“I should share with you since running this, I wrote this maybe a month ago and appeared in our newsletter and I’ve taken some crap from the Trump derangement syndrome readers that have said why are you talking up that communist Elon Musk?” Lund said.
“It was done humorously when I redefined Doge as duplicates, oldies, garbage, and extras. I said 78% of radio stations are playing the wrong songs, that’s been a number we’ve used in our company for decades. Easily three-fourths of all stations are playing the wrong songs.”
Lund followed up after our call, telling me that he had decided to rewrite the article and change the title to “Does Your Music Library Need Ozempic?”
I asked Lund to explain that 78 percent theory.
Lund drew an example of a client in Canada. “Here’s a radio station that does extensive music research, as do most big stations. Montreal is the second largest market in Canada behind Toronto, with a population about the size of Philadelphia.”
“They did an auditorium music test, we tested 800 songs, we recoded the music, figured out here are the ones that should be your powers, here should be your secondaries, etc. And then they don’t do it.”
“When you look at their powers, their secondaries, and the songs that they play, their playlist is twice the size of CHUM in Toronto, which is the number one-rated Hot AC in Toronto, owned by the Chum group, a very famous station. So why do they play so many songs?”
Citing a particular song in high rotation, Lund asked, “I questioned why they played the song. And they said it’s a really good song. I said there are a lot of good songs. They said, our research turned out well.”
“What came first, the chicken or the egg? And they said, what do you mean? You started playing it because you saw it was really big on TikTok. We know from radio that people who listen to radio for the most part are not people who go to Apple Music and these other sources.”
Hot AC is not the only format with bloated playlists. “There’s a Country station in Oregon that I think plays 75 current songs.”
Another case involved a station in the oldies format where a talent who plays requests aired a song that never made the Billboard Top 60.
“He’s playing songs by request. And according to my rules, yes, provided they made top 10 on the billboard or something like that. So, somebody requests the song, West of the Wall.”
“I asked, why did you play it? It was requested. So, if I requested a piece of sh&t, would you play that? And he said, no, I wouldn’t. I said, well, I think you did.”
“Back to this concept that I have that 78% of all stations are playing the wrong music. I don’t mean a hundred percent wrong. They’re just playing some wrong titles because of the examples I’ve given you. Jocks or programmers go on these songs and if it were a novelty, you play it here and there, depending on what size market you’re in.”
John Lund
So, let’s break down D.O.G.E.
Duplicates: “We look through these playlists, and we find duplicates, which would be songs with different versions or with an artist’s name, like The Beach Boys on three songs and then Beach Boys on nine songs. And then I asked, why do we play two Beach Boy songs within 20 minutes of each other? MusicMaster doesn’t know the difference between one letter or another. So, when they misspell something, you can see that happen.”
Oldies: “When I talk about oldies, I talk about the songs that are too old for the format. I see this a lot where I find 50-year-old program directors of top 40 stations. And although they do a great job separating their life from the lifestyle of their listener, every once in a while, they’ll go back and pick up a song, which is 10, 15 years too old for their target demographic.
“I also see it in AC. AC is very gold-based in many markets, and they’re looking for more and more gold. They’ll start picking gold that doesn’t really work with the AC audience. “
Garbage: “When I talk about garbage that’s the song that just doesn’t belong. It never tested well, but somebody likes it.”
Extras: “They sit in the system because they were once hits, then they were moved to recurrent, then to gold. And no one ever really thought of looking at research to figure out if that song, which by the way, era-wise fits the format, is really not a hit. And because people liked it when it was a hit doesn’t mean people like it today.”
So, what does Lund offer as a solution?
“When I look at the solution for this, you come to grips with the fact that you’ve got music fallacies for one reason or another and fix them.”
“If you can’t conduct music research, do a music audit and look at these songs that are being played for one reason or another, and say, do people really want to hear them today? And more often than not, the answer is no. Everybody has access to some research or another.”
“Then I say, follow the rule of 300. And that is that, depending on format, there are only 300 to 600 hits. There are thousands of songs, but only 300 to 600 hits. And if you play the hits and not the other trash, you’ll do better. You’ll do fine.”
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Audacy SVP/Programming and New 102.7 WNEW New York PD Jim Ryan will leave the company in April to pursue his consultancy full-time.
Ryan was initially set to depart in December, but opted to extend his tenure at the company by one additional quarter due to the introduction of Nielsen’s new three-minute qualifier rule.
This decision comes as he approaches his 15th anniversary with the organization in April.
Ryan said, “I’m so happy I stayed, as we’ve already seen WNEW beat WLTW with 25-54 women in prime in January, and when you can beat Lite-FM with their core target, it’s a moment to savor.”
“I’ve been blessed to work with the most legendary stations in our business since I arrived in New York in 1996, first with iHeart and WLTW, then CBS in 2010 to program WNEW and WCBS-FM. I’m happy to pass the baton to a respected and well-known colleague,” says Ryan. “While there are too many people to thank for my time at Audacy, I have to single out Susan Larkin for believing in my vision for 102.7 and Chris Oliviero for his amazing leadership.”
Ryan played a role in choosing his successor, who is not being named now.
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You can meet him at the crossroads of witty and insightful. Radio America’s Chad Benson is redefining what it means to be a talk radio host and it all started as a childhood dream.
“I love cartoon voices and radio. I did a lot of pretend radio shows when [I was] a kid,” said Benson. “Now, anybody can do radio stuff but back in our day you had to really hit play and record and pretend like you’re really doing a radio show. I just loved radio. It was awesome.”
Before his radio debut, Benson made a pitstop in the soccer arena. “I went to Europe and tried to play professionally, and I got into the lower divisions. But you know this is way back in the day when Americans weren’t anything. Then I got hurt, and I was like, ‘Where else can I wear shorts and a T-shirt to work?’ And I was like, ‘Radio!’”
Working from the bottom up, Benson started at a country radio station in Los Angeles on the production side. “Ultimately, I wanted to [get into] talk radio. But I also knew at 20-something nobody’s gonna listen to me, nor should they. At 20-something, you have no life experience. I was blessed enough to be in the business long enough to push it, and keep working and got the opportunity. [And now] I’ve never let it go.”
The former semi-pro soccer player said there is a major connection between music and talk radio which might be getting lost on today’s music stations.
“It’s still a one-on-one,” he shared. “So if you’re doing it right, you could be at home listening to a guy, and you don’t even know who this guy is, and he’s talking. But you feel like he’s having a conversation with you. When done right, that’s [how] radio brings you in.”
By his own style, no matter if it is music or talk radio, you can’t do one thing: be too “preachy.”
“We’re doing this all together. We’re having a good time and we’re having a conversation.”
He’s still a big believer in this style because, “In today’s world it’s all about the music, this, that, and the other, where I keep saying, ‘if you want music radio, if I ran a music radio station today, [it would be] all about the personality.’ Everybody can get the music anywhere they want. Come for the personality and stuff like that. The business itself, you’ve got to learn. It’s a great place to learn back in the day. Now, today is different, because you have podcasting, you have stuff available that you didn’t have back then and you got to remember when I came up, there wasn’t the podcasting world.”
The podcasting world is where many are getting their start today but more importantly, Benson believes it is also a good way to grow and expand your brand.
“I’ve got friends who only want to do podcasting now, and I have friends who never want to do podcasting. I want to do both. I think that’s the most important thing, because there are a lot of things I can’t say on the radio and I’m not talking about just sex or bad language.”
Benson went on to say, “There’s no commercial break. I didn’t have to be in and out at a certain time, because everything was timed perfectly. You can get deeper into certain things. You can hit a subject a little bit longer, do certain things where you just don’t get that opportunity in radio”
In fact, for those looking to follow in his footsteps, podcasting is where he suggests they start, “Start a podcast because the more you’re up to the microphone every single day, the more that you’re at bat, as they’d say in sports. The more that you’re doing this the better you’re going to be at it.”
Most importantly, stick with it. “So much of entertainment and all of this stuff is an act of attrition. I know a lot of really talented people that didn’t have the want to to stay with it for a long time, and a lot of people who were mildly talented, but were so hardworking and stuck around that they became a success.”
He added, “If you can sharpen your tools [in music] early on, because you’re learning to be witty or funny or get something out. That [helps you get] right to the point immediately, which talk radio a lot of times doesn’t do.”
His own map for success also includes keeping a social media presence. “The fact that I can — at any given time — hop on and do 30 minutes on something that happens later in the afternoon, or something that I didn’t [hit in the show], because I over prep, I can go on and hit them a little bit later. Have a little bit more fun. Some of them maybe aren’t so serious some of a little bit, [others are]. I love the fact that there’s another avenue for me to do that. If I can drive people to my podcast of my radio show in general and vice versa, then it’s a double win.”
No matter which technological avenue Benson appears on, he is a true believer of the Audio medium. “[It’s] still the great medium. Whether it’s podcasting or radio, it’s still there. People still go to it as much as anything else and they love it. So that’s been great.”
Another thing Benson believes in is his great Radio America team. “Mike (Paradiso) and Rich, who run Radio America, they’re incredible. I was in Palm Springs, working in some little station out there and through the great David Hall and Mike, they had a plan, and they finally let me in on the plan when I was like ‘I don’t know how much longer I can afford to be this broke’, and the opportunity came, and they syndicated me.
“They have worked with me from being relatively unknown and helping me just get to places. They’re like, ‘We look at you as kind of the future of radio. You’re fun. It’s not all about politics. You can see both sides. You have a good time and you talk a lot about life kids, the whole 9 yards.’ And they gave me a platform and just said, ‘Go do it.’ They’re amazing for that.”
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Spotify has inked an extension with podcast host Bill Simmons for a reported minimum of two years. As part of the agreement, Simmons will continue to host The Bill Simmons Podcast while also maintaining his role with Spotify as the head of talk strategy.
According to a report by Bloomberg, there was speculation that Simmons might have considered leaving after his current agreement expired. However, due to his strong push to add new programs to the platform and expand into more video content, the company ultimately decided to extend his contract.
“I’ve been in enough work situations at this point that you just kinda know when you’re in the right spot,” Simmons said in a statement to Bloomberg. “I think all of us are motivated to do something pretty special in the talk and video space.”
In August 2024, a report from Ryan Glasspiegel of the New York Post stated that Simmons was actively working to determine his future with Spotify. Previously, it had been reported that Simmons engaged in “exploratory conversations with other companies about the possibility of launching a new platform.” At the time, however, a Simmons spokesperson denied those claims.
Simmons first joined Spotify in 2020 when the streaming giant purchased The Ringer for approximately $250 million. At the time, CEO Daniel Ek sought to expand the company’s portfolio beyond music and establish a stronger presence in the podcasting space.
With the acquisition of The Ringer, Spotify gained a well-established brand with a loyal audience—one that Simmons had built over many years, dating back to his tenure at ESPN and his founding of The Ringer in 2016.
Beyond Simmons’ own podcast, Spotify has continued to invest heavily in exclusive content, securing deals for major titles such as The Joe Rogan Experience and Call Her Daddy.
Looking ahead, The Ringer will continue to expand its podcast lineup while integrating more video-based content into its programming. Simmons, meanwhile, reports directly to Roman Wadenmüller, who currently oversees Spotify Technology SA’s podcast division.
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