Hubbard Broadcasting may be a big business, but it’s still a family business. That’s why you shouldn’t be surprised that the leader of most of its divisions share a last name.

Ginny Hubbard (formerly Morris) is the Chair and CEO of Hubbard Radio. She oversees stations and staffs in eight large markets across the country as well as in four cities in Northern Minnesota.

Her company’s portfolio is diverse. It’s not just because of where it operates. Hubbard is also involved in every format you know. The company even has a history of creating formats when it sees an opportunity to not only innovate, but also generate an audience.

Our conversation for the Meet the Leaders series presented by Point-to-Point Marketing is about more than just the company that bears her name. Ginny Hubbard and I talk about changes in audience measurement, the real value of AI in radio, and more.

Demetri Ravanos: I wanted to start with the news of Nielsen reportedly planning to change quarter hour measurement to soon credit stations after three minutes of listening instead of five. Is that a good thing that’s more reflective of actual listening, or do you have some skepticism about it?

Ginny Hubbard: I think it’s a very good thing and I think it’s a hopeful thing. I think it’s completely appropriate. When we’re being compared to various forms of digital media, we know that exposure to those are often a fraction of three minutes. So I think it’s appropriate.

DR: As we are sitting here staring down the barrel of 2025, are there other aspects of the way the business is judged that you think are in need of serious innovation? 

GH: That’s a good question, and in part, I think that question lays at the feet of the industry – how we think of ourselves, and how we portray ourselves. Obviously, embedded in your question is how the advertising community views us or even considers us.

I think in life, we teach people how to treat us. I think the industry, in some ways, inadvertently has taught the media and the advertising industry to see us in a certain light that in many cases is not accurate. So, I think that the Nielsen change will certainly help. But how we tell that story and how we update our story will be inherent upon us to do it constructively.

DR: I know you’ve had leadership roles both with the RAB and with the Radio Board of the NAB. Have you seen ways that the story of radio is told to the advertising community that is inaccurate or that is damaging? Or is it just sort of that it needs the story itself, sort of needs a modernization? 

GH: We are such a fragmented industry in terms of size, and the markets that we serve, and in terms of breadth of companies and ownership. I think a cohesive message has been tough to attain, and the RAB is working very intently to try and change that.

I think COVID really kind of opened everybody’s eyes to some of the evolution that was happening and got accelerated. You know, when the world stopped, and people were at home. So, the industry is working on it.

I’ve long believed that if radio companies spent more, invested more in advertising their own brands in their local marketplace, that radio as a whole would be healthier, because I think the consumer doesn’t necessarily relate to radio or the industry. They relate to the morning person that they like, the sports host that they like, the music, the shows. Those are the things that they grab on to when they listen to a radio station.

DR: That sort of goes into something that you guys did a few years ago with your sports brand in Minneapolis. Skor North was this multi-platform brand that became more about its digital offerings than the AM signal that it was on.

I wonder if that is a vision you see for the future of Hubbard. You own a number of AM sticks, but I wonder if you see us heading towards a future where the company is better off making those exclusively or at least largely digital brands.

GH: I think that very clearly Phil Mackey and Dan Seeman and the team at Skor North have really worked to refine that model. They’ve done a spectacular job. You need the right people, and as with radio, digital brands need personalities for consumers to attach to as well. It’s not about the information, as you know. It’s about the person telling the story that the listener, however they consume that content, relates to.

So, we do not have any immediate plans to try and replicate the success of Skor North in our markets where we do have AMs that may be a little bit overlooked these days, but we’re very pleased to see what’s happened with Skor North and what a difference that team has made. 

DR: So, Skor North is a good example of and really it’s almost like chapter two in Minneapolis for you guys when it comes to thinking about innovation and new approaches to spoken word formats. MyTalk was a pretty revolutionary thing when it was first turned on, and still is pretty unique in the talk radio landscape. It’s the only one I can think of off the top of my head that targets women.

You guys are doing the alternative talk format up in Seattle. Can you tell me a little bit about how your group views the potential in the future for spoken word formats? Surely, it’s not just going to be sports and angry political shouting forever and ever.

GH: I think, again, it gets back to the strength of the storyteller, and personality. As was the case with MyTalk, and as is the case with Skor or any morning show or afternoon drive show that draws a large audience. There will always be a place for not just spoken word radio, but personality-grounded radio, whether it’s an AC station or a classic rock station or a CHR that has a large personality presence. That’s what sets us apart from the pure play streaming services, and I think will probably be very much the foundation of the industry as it takes new and different forms, and as we find new and different platforms for our content to survive, and audiences to create results for our advertisers with.

DR: So, those things together sort of lead me to wonder about where we are with artificial intelligence when it comes to radio. I hear a lot that it’s coming, but at the same time, the argument for radio over faceless digital audio is exactly what you just said. It’s local. It’s human connection. I just don’t think you can sell anyone that those two things jive.

GH: Well, we are not going to be early adopters with anything relating to AI. And I guess “microphone” wouldn’t be appropriate in terms of representing or trying to communicate with our local communities through an AI voice. What do you even call it? I don’t even know.

We’ve got a committee here that’s studying all things AI. I think we’ve implemented AI rather seamlessly into some sales functions and some operational functions, but I really do not see it as a replacement for a human being behind a microphone and talking about what’s going on locally.

DR: In your mind, is that just common sense or is that something that you have come to believe, given what you’re exposed to in the work you’ve done on those national boards? Has that given you the exposure to what may be the downside, or is it just as simple as “No, it’s not a human voice”?

GH: I think the latter for me personally and for our company. But we’re a relatively small company, we’re in eight large markets and some smaller markets in northern Minnesota. I think that we try to rely heavily on the fact that we are local and connected and engaged with what’s happening in our communities. To replace that with the AI version of that would be kind of a violation of our basic core operating philosophy.

It doesn’t mean that we don’t voice track certain day parts and that we don’t share some live talent between markets. We certainly do some of that. It’s become a necessity, certainly as the top line has contracted to think of different ways of doing it. As for AI though, it’s just not even on the drawing board.

DR: Are there ways that what you get to see and the problems you get to tackle with the RAB and NAB have shaped the way that you see Hubbard operating in the future? 

GH: No, I get to hear a lot of things and be exposed to a lot of ideas and different ways that people do different things. There are companies larger than us, smaller than us, and like-sized with us. We do tend to learn what we can from others but kind of march to our own drum there too. 

DR: Whether it’s just for Hubbard or for radio in general, how do you go about finding that next generation of leaders in corporate roles and individual markets? How do you find and retain talent from a generation that has grown up without radio at the top of their mind?

GH: It’s a challenge, but in each one of our markets, we’ve got a large and growing cohort of young people that embrace radio as a part of not only their own listening experiences, but also a part of their professional future. We are trying to listen to them and trying to learn from them and foster their love of connecting with a local audience.

I get around to all of our markets and I’m always impressed and inspired by the fact that we continue to be able to attract young people not just to the industry, but to our company.

To learn more about Point-To-Point Marketing’s Podcast and Broadcast Audience Development Marketing strategies, contact Tim Bronsil at tim@ptpmarketing.com or 513-702-5072.