Sportsnet 590 has announced that Bob McCown, Canada’s preeminent and most influential sports talk radio personality, has agreed to a multi-year contract extension to continue as host of Prime Time Sports. McCown remains the most listened-to sports radio personality in the country. He’s hosted Prime Time Sports since its inception in 1989.
“Bob has helped shape the all-sports radio landscape in Canada and very few, if any, can make that claim,” said Scott Moore, President of Sportsnet & NHL Properties, Rogers Media. “Bob’s body of work is unparalleled in this business and has been for decades. He’s as exceptional a broadcaster as you will ever find.”
As far as impact is concerned, Prime Time Sports presently occupies the #1 position in a number of key demographics:
· Average minute audience for males 12+
· Average minute audience for males 25-54
· Share of audience for males 25-54
“Bob is the most prominent and revered sports talk radio host in the country for good reason,” said Dave Cadeau, National Format Director, Sports Radio, Rogers Media. “He’s the single best interviewer in the industry. He elicits the most interesting responses from his guests and guides conversations in a way that is relevant to his audience. These are unique abilities and he has mastered them.”
When asked to comment on his new deal, McCown joked: “I would have quit but my wife won’t stop spending.”
Prime Time Sports airs weekdays from 4p-7p ET on Sportsnet 590 The FAN in Toronto and on additional stations within the Sportsnet Radio Network. The show is also made available on the station’s website, the Sportsnet App, the Radioplayer Canada App, Google Home, Amazon Echo, and on television on Sportsnet 360.
You did all the work. You saw the billboard on the highway and emailed yourself to call the prospect. You found a way through the gatekeeper and got the business owner on the phone to set up an appointment. You confirmed the appointment, holding your breath until that reply email came through. You did a damn good client needs analysis – you asked all the right questions and listened intently to the answers. With the help of your sales assistant, you put together a world class presentation. You nailed the pitch, you assumed the close and made the sale!
And then, you screwed the whole thing up.
Unfortunately, it happens way too often in our business. The sale is made, and in the end, another good radio client walks away thinking that awful thought: “Radio doesn’t work.”
Whenever I hear those words, I cringe. Of course radio works. Over 15 billion (with a b) dollars is spent annually on radio ads. Companies such as Home Depot, McDonald’s, Mattress Firm, Auto Zone and Walgreens aren’t just spending enormous amounts of money with radio, each month, as charitable donations. They do it because it works.
In the first six months of 2017, Home Depot ran, on average, 233,372 commercials – PER MONTH. Again, they don’t do it because they really feel America just simply needs to hear Josh Lucas talk about carpet installation. They do it because it works.
But, when it doesn’t work, it’s usually our fault, and it’s typically because the person who made the sale at the beginning of this column was never taught that the real work begins when the client says yes.
That is when we truly need to be unique and good at what we do. Step six in the sports media salesperson playbook – servicing the account.
Generally, the first step in the process is putting together the spot the advertiser is going to air on our sports station. This step can make all the difference in the world, and too often, it is mailed in. Too many times we hear why the restaurant has the best food at the lowest prices with the best service. No creativity and nothing that makes the listener feel like they need to take action.
I encourage you, over the next few weeks, to really listen to the radio spots you hear. Make notes on why you liked or didn’t like a commercial. More times than not, a good spot brings out a strong emotion or has a memorable tag or jingle. But, I hear too many that sound like the AE needed to get copy into traffic in a hurry, so they went with the old standby of four or five quick things they pulled off the company website, repeated the phone number or web address a few times and called it a day.
The next step, especially in sports radio, is usually to execute the promotion or sponsorship you sold in the package. So, the AE emails the host, producer the information and assumes it will all get taken care of. A much better way to do this would be to visit, face to face, with the host, or hosts, and the producer and walk them through the promotion, who the client is and what is important to them. When it hits the air, grab an air-check and send it over to the client to let them hear how it sounded on the air. Never assume your client is listening and heard the feature.
Another mistake I see all too often is the AE who only talks to their client when it comes time for renewal. I teach my teams to always find ways to drop into your client’s business or, at the very least, call them to see how things are going. Don’t be the person who they only see or hear from when it’s time to get back in their pocket. Remember, you are hoping they see you as their new in-house marketing director, not their radio salesperson who they see twice a year.
If the copy was compelling, the execution of the promotion or sponsorship was on point, and you truly went out of your way to establish a relationship with the customer, you are several times more likely to get the all-important renewal.
When we don’t do our jobs correctly, we don’t give campaigns the chance to work and we have, potentially, lost a radio client forever. It is our responsibility to hold ourselves accountable so all we hear a lot more about how well RADIO WORKS!
Pump the brakes on Angelo Cataldi’s retirement. The successful morning host on Sports Radio 94WIP in Philadelphia isn’t going anywhere just yet.
Entercom Philadelphia has announced that Cataldi has signed a new contract with the company to remain in place as the host of “Angelo Cataldi and the Morning Team,” weekdays from 5:30a-10a ET. The show includes Al Morganti, Rhea Hughes, Keith Jones and Joe Conklin. Morganti and Jones recently renewed their deals with WIP.
“I’m honored to remain at WIP. For almost three decades, this has been my only home on the radio, and I have a great debt of gratitude to everyone associated with the station,” said Angelo Cataldi. “This also keeps alive my dream of being at WIP when the Eagles win a Super Bowl. Go, Eagles. And go, WIP.”
“We’re proud to continue our relationship with Angelo Cataldi, who for decades has been the voice of Philadelphia sports fans,” said David Yadgaroff, Entercom Philadelphia’s Senior Vice President and Market Manager. “Throughout our city’s sports ups and downs, Angelo has stood beside millions of Philly fans and we’re so happy he’ll continue doing it on 94WIP, Philadelphia’s number one sports talk radio station.”
Cataldi has been one of the most influential personalities in Philadelphia sports media. He has anchored the morning show on WIP since 1990, consistently ranking among the top-rated radio programs in Philadelphia. In addition to offering strong opinions on the city’s sports teams and personalities, Cataldi has led the charge for a number of extravagant stunts and events, including one of sports radio’s crown jewel promotions, WIP’s annual Wing Bowl, which recently celebrated its 25th anniversary.
There are many challenges to succeeding in the sports media industry. Some of them take place on the air. Some happen when the microphone is off. Phil Mackey of 1500 ESPN in Minneapolis provides four key things which every host and producer should think about on a daily basis.
1. Take up an interest in ALL areas of your company’s (and show’s) business model
Sometimes it’s easy to get caught in the weeds of the daily content grind, which is understandable considering hosts’ and producers’ jobs revolve primarily around content.
But the content creators are the front men (or women) for a media company’s business model — and if the hosts and producers aren’t at least moderately familiar with each aspect of the model, it’s likely the company (and the show) won’t thrive to its fullest capability.
In general, your media company’s 30,000-foot-view business model can likely be simplified down to three main pillars:
1.) Creating compelling content
2.) Audience building (and the discovery + distribution + promotion of the content)
3.) Generating revenue
It always drives me nuts when I hear hosts say things like, “They pay me for my opinion.” Actually, that’s incorrect. Your company pays you to build and cultivate audiences – and help connect those audiences to money-spending clients.
Or, “Hey, those technical questions aren’t in my job description. Ask somebody else.” Well, if nobody knows your content exists, you aren’t as valuable.
By understanding the entire model, maybe you – as a front man — can offer solutions or ideas to help the company thrive in all facets.
Take up an interest. Every day.
2. When prepping segments/talkers, “Level 3” should be the goal
I come from a poker background, where the best players are keenly aware of the multiple levels of thinking required to be successful.
Level 1 = What hand do I have? (A pair? A straight? A draw?)
Level 2 = What could my opponent have? (And how should I proceed while considering this thought?)
Level 3 = What does my opponent think I have?
Level 4 = What does my opponent think I think he/she has?
And so on.
The higher you can climb this thought ladder as a poker player, the more money you’re likely to win in the long run.
Radio and podcasting are similar — if a host isn’t prepping or operating on more advanced thought levels, he/she probably isn’t regularly creating compelling content for the audience.
The equivalent radio prep “levels” look something like this:
Level 1 = What happened? What are the newsworthy items?
Level 2 = What is my opinion of what happened?
Level 3 = How can I take what happened – and my opinion of it – and craft something compelling, memorable, unique, funny and/or thought-provoking? Or spin it in a way that’s otherwise more compelling to the audience.
Many hosts spend a majority of their mic time on Levels 1 and 2. And for shows that fill 12 or 16 segments per day, it’s nearly impossible to avoid spending at least some time – and possibly several segments – on these levels.
But the trulycreative hosts – Colin Cowherd, Dan Le Batard, etc. – are regularly on Level 3.
3. “Find the funny”
Speaking of Le Batard, his show with Stugotz is one of the best, most entertaining shows in the country – and one of the cast’s main mottos is to “find the funny” in all possible situations.
Sports talk can become incredibly stale and cliché when hosts spend the entire show, well, just delivering sports opinions. “Finding the funny” doesn’t necessarily require a PhD in stand-up comedy – just an openness to embrace things like …
* A “yes, and …” mentality — the first rule of improv, which means always taking what someone said and advancing it forward rather than shooting it down.
* Honesty and transparency. Did something embarrassing or funny happen off air or behind the scenes? Tell that story on the air. Is a segment turning into a trainwreck live on the air? Bask in its trainwrecky glory and call it out.
* Self-deprecation. Do the hosts have potentially annoying or aggravating tendencies? Highlight them in fun ways by creating bits.
4. Think visual
78% of online American adults use Facebook.
32% of all American online adults use Instagram.
These platforms are, quite obviously, extremely valuable for building audiences, and they are much more visual than audial. In fact, according to Digiday, roughly 85% of video content on these platforms is consumed without sound.
It’s not enough to simply use these platforms as spam vehicles. People on Facebook and Instagram expect real, valuable, quality content on the spot – not a constant barrage of links and teases. And consumers probably aren’t going to turn the volume up on their device, so molding the content to make it more visual – with captions, graphics, block text, etc. – is essential for holding attention.
Phil Mackey hosts “The Mackey & Judd Show,” 9a – 1p weekdays on 1500 ESPN Twin Cities. He also oversees podcast content development at Hubbard Broadcasting in Minneapolis-St. Paul and was named 2012 Minnesota Sportscaster of the Year by National Sports Media Association. You can follow him on Twitter and Instagram at /PhilMackey.
When I got the offer, I literally almost cried. It was a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. I felt complete once again.
Any on-air talent in the radio industry who has lost a job for any reason knows this feeling. They know what it’s like to be given a second chance at doing something you love. You are so grateful. You are thankful because the period of time that you spent without being behind the microphone can be some of the most grueling, mentally challenging and desperate times you experience. Your mind challenges you daily to stay sharp and focused. At the same time it is your worst enemy, causing doubt, trepidation and even tears as you try to figure out what’s next. Having gone through this experience, I realized the challenges to surviving this void are many.
When I was fired, I couldn’t believe it. I knew that I had made mistakes and poor decisions, but I didn’t think they would cost me my job. The day I was officially let go, it wasn’t as bad as I thought, but I know there is a certain “fakeness” to the whole ordeal. I’m not saying that management was fake to me, but we were all trying to get through an awkward situation with as little acrimony as possible. Everyone shook hands and we parted ways. I left that building knowing that I may never get the chance to do this again – and I had no one to blame but myself.
I walked back into my house dejected and sad. I had possibly blown a great opportunity. I was so disappointed in myself that I took the station I used to work for off my presets and refused to listen to it. I was like a teenager being dumped for the first time. I was mad. More at myself than anything, but I was mad.
I knew sitting around feeling sorry for myself wasn’t going to help, so I started to reach out to all the people I knew in the industry who could help and let them know that I was a “free agent” … sort of … damn non-compete clauses. Anyway, I knew that I had to just start putting myself in front of as many people as possible. I knew that I had talent and that would stand out, but it just required someone who would listen, and more importantly, had a need! Talent is great, but if there isn’t an opening, you won’t get a job!
A little more each day I tried to make a contact, send out my demo, call someone else to see if they could help. This drives you crazy in a sense, because as many of us know, this effort yields very little. It is disheartening. You start to lose faith and you question whether another opportunity is ever going to come.
To make matters worse, I have a wife and family to worry about. It’s not any easier to get fired when you’re single, but it’s easier from a responsibility standpoint. Most of us could live on tuna and ramen noodles if we had to do so. My three kids can’t and my wife won’t! There is a sense of disappointment that you can’t deal with when you let your family down. It’s awful. That’s the only way to describe it. Hopefully, they are supportive and encouraging. I have my wife to thank for doing that immensely.
When you get overwhelmed with emotion in this process, you need an outlet. Friends in the industry who know what you’re going through and can help you deal with it. As I said, your own mind is your worst enemy. I routinely had to pick up the phone and talk myself down off the ledge and get myself back to normal because those questions about your future can consume you. I am thankful for those friends in the industry who were there for me when I needed them most.
With every meeting and phone call about prospective employment, you get more and more excited. You feel like this is finally going to be it. Furthermore, you are anxious about “what’s taking so long?” You have to remember that most things in our industry move at glacier speed. You forget this repeatedly. You get to a point where all you want to do is get back to work, hosting a show, and having a purpose again. And the closer you get to it actually happening, the worse it is because that anxiety starts to multiply. Once again, it consumes you.
When I got the offer from David Dickey to join his radio company, I literally almost cried. It was a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. I felt complete once again. You look back on the time that you were in that void and you realize that you never want to be there again. That you will do everything in your power to make sure that you don’t end up there again. You also gain a new appreciation and respect for the job you have and the opportunity you have been given. Yes, you earned it, but second chances aren’t always easy to earn. People have to take a chance on you. I can’t tell you how excited I am to be given a second chance.
Mark Zinno is an Atlanta sports radio personality, soon to be heard on 1230 The Fan 2. He also hosts the Hazard Ground podcast. He can be reached on Twitter @MarkZinno or by email by clicking here.
Do you remember your first day in radio? I remember mine like it was yesterday.
It was the summer between my freshman and sophomore year in college, June of 1994. The day after I came home from school, my best friend’s dad, who was in the advertising business, lined up an interview for a summer internship with KFNS in St. Louis.
I met with the Program Director and the Assistant Program Director and they both seemed as if they wanted to be doing anything else besides talking to me. In fact, the APD fell asleep while we were talking – true story.
They said I was a little late in coming to talk with them, but if someone backed out they would give me a call. Sure enough, about a week later, the PD called and asked if I’d be willing to work the morning shift and get to the station at 5:30am, three days per week. I lived about 45 minutes away from the station, but he could have said 2:30am, I was in!
The following Sunday night, I don’t think I slept. I was so excited and was so worried about sleeping through my alarm that I was dressed and ready to go by 4:00. I hopped in my car and drove to the radio station, in the St. Louis suburb of Clayton, and parked in the garage as I was instructed. What wasn’t in my instructions was how to get in the building. Every door I went to was locked. I had no clue what to do and I was panicking. As I went back towards my car, a woman had pulled into the garage and was running hurriedly to the door as if she was late. Turns out, she was the producer of the morning show on a sister station and she was, in fact, running late.
“I’m trying to get up to KFNS,” I yelled as she was sprinting to the door. “This way,” she yelled back as the door was about to close. I caught it with my foot and followed her up the stairs and through the door to the radio station. “New guy’s here, nice of you to tell him how to get in,” she hollered at the producer in the KFNS studio as she ran into the studio across the hall.
And so, it began. I was hooked from my first shift. I never wanted to leave. As it turned out, I hardly ever did. I’ve written about this before, but those that are new to my column may not know that I worked for KFNS for the next seven and a half years, eventually co-hosting morning drive, until I took my first management job in Memphis. I later came back and was part of an ownership group that bought KFNS and spent another four and a half years there as President and General Manager.
I bring all this up to lead you to this week when I hired two brand new salespeople to join our staff at KCSP in Kansas City. To protect the innocent, I will use only their first names as I tell you a little bit about how their first day on the job went.
Nick is 25 years old and is a ball of energy. I met him through one of our on-air hosts when he was working as a General Manager for two Mr. Goodcents locations in the Kansas City area. He came in to talk with me about some promotional ideas and after talking with him for about ten minutes, I wanted to hire him. I asked him about his background and he told me about some selling he had done in the wireless industry and in digital media. That was all I needed to hear. High energy, creative, smart and had done some sales. I quickly turned the conversation towards seeing how happy he was in his current position and it turned out he was ready for a change.
Adam is a 30-year-old former Division I basketball player who answered a post we had on Indeed.com. He was one of several interviews I did in one day and stood out from the others I had talked to by far. After playing some pro ball overseas, Adam worked for a couple of technology companies and had a lot of experience with sales and, most importantly, with cold calling. Mostly, I loved that Adam was very motivated by money and loved competition. He’s also very good at tracking his own success. I know this, because I’d looked up his basketball stats and mentioned that I saw he shot 39% from behind the three-point line. He quickly pointed out that it actually rounded up to 40%!
After a hectic first day I sat down with both and first asked them about what they’d been thinking about since officially taking the job just over a week prior. “To me, the toughest part of starting any sales job is learning the products and turning your leads into appointments,” said Nick. “I was mainly thinking of my game plan so that I can learn the products in such a way that I can get people to want to talk to me. For me, it’s all about absorbing all of the information and becoming comfortable with the products as quickly as possible.”
Adam said: “My first thoughts were about which customers I have previous relationships with that I can call and get an appointment with. Who do I know that will give me the ten or fifteen minutes I might need to get in front of them and tell them where I’m at and see if it might be a fit for them?”
I also wanted to know what they were looking forward to, now that they had a little bit more information about the company and what the job was. “I’m just looking forward to being in the environment and to learning the industry,” Nick said. “I can’t wait to get out and sell these guys that I’ve been listening to for years and helping them make money, which in turn will help me make money.”
“Same for me,” said Adam. “At first, I thought the job was just selling radio ads and I didn’t know too much about digital, events and the other things we have to sell. I’m excited to learn about all of those things and then get out and inform businesses about how all the products can help them grow.”
When their first day was complete they had each met close to 100 new co-workers, filled out a giant stack of paperwork, received usernames and passwords to several different new systems, started online training modules and even had their first celebrity encounter when six-time Pro Bowler Neil Smith came into my office to fill out some paperwork. I was curious to know after all of that, what they told people about their first day.
“I went home and told my wife my brain was absolutely fried,” Adam said. “I was really excited and was just trying to process all of the information that had come my way.”
Nick told me he called his mom and said he told her, “I am so stoked to be in an industry I have really wanted to be a part of, doing something I know I’m going to be good at. I really can see myself working for this company for a really long time.”
I was just glad I had remembered to tell them both how to get in the building!
So how will Nick and Adam do in their new careers? I’ll plan to update you every so often on their progress and you’ll be able to follow along as they set out on their new journey.
On the 15th and final episode of Season 2, FOX Sports Radio and Television personality Colin Cowherd spends 33 minutes offering his insights on his career, FS1’s progress, the ESPN layoffs, sexual harassment in the workplace, comparisons to Skip Bayless, creating and maintaining chemistry, how to determine whether to continue with or eliminate a popular benchmark and much more.
In this week’s 5 in 5, Jason offers his views on the ESPN layoffs, the reactions from Mike Francesa and Michael Kay on the benching of Eli Manning, sexual harassment in the workplace, the eMarketer.com social media survey and holiday program scheduling.
TOPIC DISCUSSED WITH COLIN:
What still excites and motivates him to talk sports for a living?
Whether or not he reached a fork in the road earlier in his career
How he grades the past 2 years of working for FOX Sports
ESPN’s layoffs and what they say about the state of the media business
Where he thinks people will consume content most in the next 5 years
Reaction to Mike Francesa’s views on radio and digital
How to conduct yourself behind the scenes and avoid harassment issues
The state of his relationship with FS1 and confidence in the network’s vision
The Vegas line on working again in the future for ESPN
Who he’s been influenced by and learned from in the media business
The key to developing and maintaining outstanding chemistry
Determining if something on his show still has appeal or has run its course
When the Ron Burgundy imitations might return
If he believes he and Skip Bayless are similar or different as personalities
The way he develops analogies and introduces them into his show
How much longer he hopes to remain active in sports media
Why he believes the show is better now on FOX than it was at ESPN
Thirty years in any business is a long time. In radio, it’s an eternity. For Mike Francesa, it’s never been about surviving corporate changes, the loss of a radio partner, increased competition or the rise of technology. It’s been about competing and being the very best. Anything less than “numbah 1” wasn’t good enough.
But despite three decades of ratings and revenue success, Mike will find himself in unfamiliar territory on December 16, 2017. That Saturday morning, the king of New York sports talk will wake up for the first time since 1987 as a man without a microphone and radio station.
It’s no secret that Francesa and WFAN are going in separate directions. Chris Carlin, Bart Scott and Maggie Gray have been tabbed by program director Mark Chernoff to lead the station forward in PM drive, a move which is under heavy scrutiny. Fans were hopeful after Craig Carton’s exit in September that WFAN executives and their longtime franchise player would find a way to extend their relationship but unfortunately nothing changed.
Whether you’ve been a Francesa fan or critic, his success and impact on the radio industry can’t be denied. His rise with Chris “Mad Dog” Russo to the top of the ratings in New York breathed life into the sports radio business during a very important time in the format’s infancy. Had Mike and the Mad Dog not produced results, who knows where the format would be today.
But it didn’t stop there. Russo left the show in August 2008, and rather than adding a partner, Francesa began performing as a solo act, delivering the same type of impact that he had for the prior 19 years. That success added to his legacy, and cemented his position on the Mount Rushmore of sports radio talk show hosts.
For most personalities, that would be enough, but Mike hasn’t reached the end of his broadcasting journey. In fact, he remains interested in continuing to work. Fans will have to live without hearing him during the upcoming winter months but come April, Francesa says he plans to sink his teeth into something new. What that will be and how often he’ll do it remains to be seen, but whatever he chooses, it’ll be on a different outlet than the one New York sports radio listeners have been accustomed to finding him on for the past three decades.
I had the pleasure of spending time with Mike in his office last week to reflect on his run with WFAN and examine a number of different areas of the radio business. As usual, he was candid and provided plenty to think about, two of the biggest reasons why he’s been one of the most successful sports radio personalities in our format’s history.
JB: How much have you allowed yourself to reflect and appreciate the process leading up to your final show?
MF: I’ve absolutely thought a lot about the show and the different moments that have happened throughout the years. Everywhere we’ve gone this year the crowd’s have been overwhelming. I thank the fans enormously. We’ve had the most loyal and consistent fans the past thirty years that you could ever even hope for and I’m very appreciative of that.
Leading up to the final show, in our business you spend a lot of time planning ahead. Right now I’d normally be looking to the Super Bowl, Spring Training and even April. You’re always trying to work 4-6 in advance but I haven’t done any of that so that’s very different from the normal course of business. There’s a finality to every part of it. As I’ve gone past each month, you check them off and realize there’s never going to be another September or October doing shows so from that standpoint I’ve tried to appreciate it and be a little more reflective.
JB: What are you going to miss most and least about the job?
MF: The least part of the job that I’ll miss is the traffic. It’s impossible getting around the city and it wears you down. It’s a couple of hours a day. Just brutal.
What I’ll miss most is the idea that there’s a big happening and I know the city is waiting for me at one o’clock. That’s been my life for thirty years. To know the city isn’t waiting for me anymore will be a big adjustment.
JB: Who would you put at the top of the list among your favorite guests from over the years?
MF: There were some guests who performed above the call of duty on the show. George Young was one. David Stern was another. They not only brought a great performance level but they brought this curmudgeonly playful attitude that made them great guests.
The one that got away was Joe DiMaggio. Dog and I tried very hard to get him on the show. We even got Ted Williams to ask for us. We just couldn’t get him.
JB: Which memorable moments from the show stand out the most?
MF: The day Dog left was an emotional one. Cherny fought me the whole day. I said I’m putting him on. He said no you’re not. I said he has a right to say goodbye. Mark said no he doesn’t. He’s out.
Back then they used to just take you off the air. They’ve learned their lesson and changed that stance thankfully. Look at me, right now I couldn’t be more of a lame duck. There’s a new company I’m not part of. There’s a new show already named. I feel like the President after election day. You have people just waiting to push you out of the office.
JB: When did you know the show was a success and had influence?
MF: I knew the show was a success when we got the first book. We were third after they had been eleventh. The second book we were first and life changed. They ripped up our contracts, we were the toast of the town, there were headline stories, and we were big stars.
The first time though that I knew it had impact was when the Giants called and asked me to MC a dinner they were doing. That was about six months into the show. I was like “Whoa, the Giants are calling me?”
JB: So with all of these great moments and tremendous success, why leave?
MF: They made me a bunch of offers and asked what it would take for me to stay for a year, but we never really even seriously negotiated. I told them I really wasn’t into it. I didn’t want to stay just for money. I always felt you don’t stay in things just for money.
It was very important to me to leave on top. I didn’t want to be one of these guys who used to be number 1 and now you’re number 28. I couldn’t live that way. I wouldn’t be comfortable with that.
I’ve driven these guys exceedingly hard to finish 1st in the final book. With a few weeks to go we’re first but it looks like it’s going to be a dogfight with one of the music stations. That’s what’s important to me and that’s what we’ve been striving for. I wanted to go out the same way that I came in, on top.
JB: How much of this has to do with Entercom taking over and working for a new company and possibly facing different economic realities?
MF: Some of the reports that have been out there have been so wrong. I had dinner with David Field. He wasn’t able to talk about certain things because the merger was pending but this notion that the company was trying to cut my salary is not true. They offered me the same amount that I’m making right now.
This wasn’t about money. I just thought a few years ago that it was the right time and nothing made me think it wasn’t the right time to go. I still believe it’s the right time to move on.
It had nothing to do with Entercom. Whether I agree with what they’re going to do going forward or not doesn’t matter. I’m not even going to know what they’re like for six months. They were not an issue at all.
JB: How close did you come to reversing your stance following Craig’s exit?
MF: After the Carton thing happened I said “if you really need me to stay then we’ll discuss it.” We had one meeting about it and they said they did not think it was a big deal and didn’t think it would change things at all. I said OK and that was it.
JB: So if that is indeed the case and this is it for you with WFAN, what is next?
MF: I want to produce content and do some new things. I don’t want to not work at all. I will not do Monday thru Friday. I’ve been offered book deals and rejected them because I don’t think I’m an author. I still have a lot to say and there are many ways to do that and I’m looking at some of them.
The way it’s set up I can’t do local radio, network radio, satellite radio or podcasts until April 1st. TV’s not in there but I’m not sure how much of that I want to do, especially the conventional way. I’m much more into digital and the new wave of TV, the Amazon way, the Netflix way and the different ways they distribute video content.
JB: This radio station has endured losing high profile stars like Russo, Imus, Carton, Sid, etc. Your departure will soon be another major test for them. How has WFAN been able to continue thriving after losing such key people?
MF: We built something strong that had legs. It will endure past me. The Fan has been built on a strong enough foundation that it will be here fifty to a hundred years from now. It’s become part of this town and culture. It’s an iconic brand.
They still have to make the right decisions. If they don’t, it can lose its way. We’ve seen that happen in other cities. It’s not The Fan’s birthright to be on top and it is tough to replace a very successful show but it does happen. Imus got replaced.
Mark always has an idea of what he wants to do. This was not done without any thought process. How it’s going to do? We’ll see.
JB: The news of the new afternoon show hasn’t been well received so far, although they haven’t even done a show yet. Your former partner in particular was pretty upset. What’s your reaction to the station going in this direction?
MF: First, Dog can talk about the individuals all he wants. He’s earned that right. But from my position, the less said the better. I don’t have much to go on. None of these people have ever had any real radio presence on this station. I’ve never heard Maggie or Scott do a show and I haven’t even really heard Continent do a show so what they’ll be as a trio, nobody has any idea, and as individual performers, I don’t really know.
JB: Let’s be fair too, whoever goes in after you, is going to be under intense scrutiny the second they step into the studio. How long of a leash do you think a new show deserves?
MF: You have to give the new show at least six months. The first book will not be a great indicator of anything. Plus it’s a Winter ratings book. Take a look at the end of the Spring book and see where you are. That’d be a fair indicator.
JB: I recognize you’re not in the advice business, but having done this successfully for as long as you have, what advice can you pass along to the new show?
MF: They need to be themselves. You can’t manufacture something that’s not there. Chemistry is something they have to develop. They have to figure out their roles and ones that each of them are comfortable with and then play to their individual strengths. That’s their mission. What they have to realize is that it’s never going to be a case where each is responsible for a third of the show. That’s silly. It just has to have a feel.
JB: The competition in afternoons has been stronger too. How do you think that affects the patience with the new program?
MF: For the longest time, we were the only show the other station went head to head with locally. That was done by design because they knew they’d get destroyed if they put in a national show against me. Network shows only have a certain level they can reach.
There’s going to be some back and forth. The other station feels they’re in a different position now. They’ve never won. They’ve always lost. They’ve been beaten up for so many years that they think this is an opening but they felt the same way when Dog left and that door didn’t open for them. We’ll see this time if they are more vulnerable.
JB: Mark Chernoff is responsible for making the move. The two of you guys have had a lengthy working relationship. How would you describe it?
MF: We’ve had the typical talent to program director relationship. There are days he will try to push me to things I don’t want to do. He might be right or wrong. We’ve had our fights and arguments but we’ve also gotten along really well.
Mark’s greatest strength for me is that he’s a genius on understanding the ratings and how they work. There are certain things you can do and I’m sure he’ll teach the new show and they really need to listen and understand.
A lot of talent won’t take the time to learn this part of it. Some pay no attention to ratings. You can like it or not but if you don’t understand it you’re out of your mind and short selling yourself. That’s how you’re going to be paid.
JB: How surprised are you by the lack of interest from some personalities towards learning and understanding the ratings game to help their longevity and earning power?
MF: Our business is subjective. You’re not going to please everybody all the time. Your job though is to produce ratings and revenue. It’s the only thing that will sell the day. To not understand how they work and what tricks you can do in your show to have success is very important. There are some things that you don’t want to do in a half hour that’ll cost you. When you want to break and stuff like that. Some people think “all I have to do is promote ahead and I’m fine.” No No No. There’s a lot more to it than that.
I remember Mel Karmazin had this meeting years ago and turned to one guy and asked “what’s your job.” This executive went into this long ten minute answer full of a bunch of baloney and Mel turned to him and said “let me put it simple – you’re job is ratings and revenue – and don’t forget it on your next job.” He fired him.
JB: Sticking with the subject of ratings, you’ve said before that you feel the sports radio industry is going after the wrong demographic. You believe Men 35-64, not Men 25-54, should be the target. How come?
MF: Trying to get this business to change something, forget it. They are so slow it’s glacier speed. This is such a no-brainer. We are so much healthier and living longer. Our life expectancy is now into the mid 80’s. The people 55 to 70 have incredible earning power and more money than anybody in this country. They have the life to spend it and the time to spend it.
The way the world works with student debt and the economy, kids aren’t even leaving home until they’re 30 years old. They can’t afford anything at 25 years old. If they’re buying their first home it’s usually on a shoestring budget and they’re getting help from their parents. You think that’s your market? They’re not your market. Your market is the baby boomer and people 40-65 who have all the earning and spending power in this country. To turn away a good part of that audience is insane.
JB: How do we fix that?
MF: The entire ad buying community has to grow. Using GQ as an example, I read them and look at their ads for clothes and they’re all geared towards the twenty year old’s. I buy more clothes than they do. They don’t target guys like me and they’re out of their minds. We’re the ones who go out to fancy dinners, buy expensive suits and jewelry and drive a mercedes. The guy 20 or 30 isn’t doing that. He’s two hundred thousand dollars in debt and lucky if he even has a car.
If I was in the advertising business I’d be saying “gear everything towards the guys 40-65 or 70, they have all the money and time.”
JB: One of the biggest challenges for radio has been the emergence of digital. How do you think that’s impacted the industry?
MF: The radio business has got to find itself and decide what it wants to be. The audience has not gone anywhere. What our industry has done, is they think it’s gone somewhere because they’ve been scared off by technology and they’ve chased digital to the detriment of their regular radio audience.
I’ve fought everybody in the business over this. Radio is live and local and the business is still there. The digital money has never been there. No one knows how to monetize it and it’s so new that you’re not even sure what you’re selling as the business changes from Facebook to Twitter to Instagram to Snapchat.
What radio does know how to do, this commercial sells that car. This commercial sells that restaurant or store. That has never changed but they’ve gotten away from it and radio has to get back to its roots or they’re going to wish they did.
JB: But social media has become an important way for people to engage, find content and connect to brands. Podcasts are another platform gaining in popularity. Don’t those matter?
MF: I understand the draw of social media. The chasing of content is good. But the radio companies, and to a lesser extent, the television companies, still don’t have a handle on it.
I’ve railed against podcasts because nobody makes any money on them. When did we decide everybody gets a radio show? We didn’t. But everybody now has a podcast.
Radio has chased empty dollars. There’s nobody at the door saying you can’t enter. So everybody enters. Unless you go into a podcast with a radio brand and audience, you’re not going to make money or create a big enough audience to support what you’re doing.
JB: When you look at where the industry is today compared to where it was before, do you think it’s still an attractive profession?
MF: The job of talk show host has become a great job. When I started the talk show host was not a big deal. The columnist was the big guy and he looked down at the radio host. We turned it into a profession. Kids are now going to school to pursue becoming a talk show host. In most cities in this country, the talk show host is now the number one difference maker or tastemaker in that town. To me, that transition is one I’m most proud of. Mike and the Mad Dog gave the job enormous credibility and attention.
JB: You mentioned Mike and the Mad Dog, knowing that this was going to be the final run for you with WFAN, was that why you gave the green light on doing the 30 for 30 episode?
MF: The Mike and the Mad Dog 30 for 30 I did for two reasons. The first was my kids asked me, and the second was because Dog asked me. My first inclination was not to do it because I’ve had a bad relationship with ESPN.
When they did the twenty fifth anniversary piece, I was the only one who wouldn’t do it. Even Imus did it. Bill Simmons said “I can’t do this unless you do it” and I said “I’m not doing it for ESPN.” He still keeps busting my chops about it because I did the 30 for 30 but didn’t do his thing.
Plus the guys who did it I broke into the business with. Danny Forer and I worked together in 1983, and Ted Shaker was one of my first bosses at CBS. He ran the NFL Today. I’ve known those guys for thirty years so that also made it a lot easier.
JB: Watching that film reminded me of how important it is to create something unique. Now, the world is cluttered with content choices and cutting thru is harder than ever. What do you tell a young person who’s starting out today and contemplating a path as a talk show host?
MF: It’s easier to get on the air now than it ever was but it’s also harder to break thru because there’s so much noise and clutter. You have to have an opinion and a presence that cuts thru. It has to be real and yours. That’s the key to success.
JB: In following your career, maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall you ever being suspended for something you’ve said on the air. Some personalities today feel they’ve got to deliver opinions that generate headlines and rattle a few cages to stand out. By doing so though they can risk losing their job. What are your thoughts on the need to push the envelope to cut thru the noise?
MF: I’ve never been suspended or reprimanded and I’ve never had to apologize. I attack people from a sports standpoint. I don’t attack people personally. I never bring their families, girlfriends or wives into it. I don’t do T & A or guy talk. I don’t believe in that.
I’ve always looked at my show as being a sports argument. It can be fierce and take the paint off the walls, but it’s going to be based on something that happened on the field or something that has an impact on the team.
The guys who want to push it and get involved, stay out of a tragedy. A perfect example was the Roy Halladay situation and how it was discussed by the guys in Boston. That’s not your business. You weren’t there. You don’t know anything about it. He has a wife and kids and cities that love him. Maybe he was reckless with his plane, but where do you get off thinking that’s your business? That’s a winless situation. There are times you have to stay out of stuff. You don’t belong in other people’s pain.
JB: Another area of the business which has changed has been the increase of political commentary in sports radio programming. Do you believe we’re going to see more of this going forward?
MF: I think the political explosion in sports talk has more to do with this President. He’s so polarizing because he touches so many parts of culture. He’s a TV star first. Without his show he never becomes President. We knew him in New York but they got to know him in living rooms across the country because of The Apprentice.
People who voted for Trump saw him as success. He brands himself that way. He breaks across certain barriers because some people see him as having the life they wish they had. He has the pretty girl, the jet, the money, the fame.
We are so polarized now that everybody sticks to their own opinion and nobody wants to have a political conversation. That’s made things much more agitated and tougher to get any consensus. There’s no middle anymore. What we’ve seen leak into all of these shows is really the Trump factor more than a political factor.
JB: Let’s talk about your own methods to hosting a successful program. How do you know when you’ve had a good or bad show?
MF: Any good show is fast moving. Anything that drags is bad. There’s a big difference between the two. Show’s can change on a dime. You have to realize ahead of time and during the show when it’s time to reverse the topic. You have to have an instinctive feel for what is and isn’t working as a performer. If that is not inside you, you’re going to have a hard time being special at this.
You know when you’re giving your audience a reason to stray. You won’t hear my show go into seven topics in seven minutes. I focus my shows because I don’t think you can move your audience all over the place.
It’s even more of a challenge when I’m doing a live show. I don’t ever give the audience a chance to chat among themselves. You never want to give the audience dead time during a live performance. That’s deadly. They’ll start talking to each other and then you’ll never get them back. If you put an intermission in there, you’re out of your mind. The show should never stop moving.
JB: I’ve noticed over the years that you haven’t placed a strong emphasis on using production, sound or teasing. How come?
MF: The show is me. Some people need a lot of sound and bells and whistles. I don’t use any of it. I don’t even use music. You have to understand though what you have to do. That means handling all the transitions and segues. It’s harder to do a show this way because it’s a lot more work but it’s something I believe in.
JB: As we look to the future, what would an induction into the radio hall of fame mean to you?
MF: The radio hall of fame would mean a lot. They put us in a voting category and we thought we had a chance but we finished second to Michael Savage. Credit to him. He earned it fair and square. I think Mike and the Mad Dog deserve to be in there and if we go in together that would be just fine with me.
JB: Along those lines, 10-15 years from now when people look back on your run at WFAN, what do you want them to remember?
MF: I hope that they remember that during the time I was here I dominated. That’s what I set out to do and I did that.
JB: What do you have planned for the final show?
MF: The day before the final show I’ll be broadcasting live from the Museum of Broadcasting with a number of guests, family, WFAN people, a small audience of about 200 people. We’re not selling tickets to that. We’ll just be giving some away.
The final show will just be me. I’m not letting anybody in the studio. I’m not doing any media that day. I even told my family to stay home and listen to it. I’m coming in, doing a show, talking to the audience, no guests, and then I’m getting up at 6:30 and leaving.
The last 10-15 minutes will probably just be me. I’m not going to script it. I’ll have thought about it obviously but I’m just going to let it go and then that’ll be it.
Lance Zierlein and John Granato enjoyed a lot of radio success together before going in separate directions. But in the crazy world of sports talk radio, things have a way of coming full circle. Now after years apart and working at different companies, the two men are joining forces once again to try and reclaim their position as one of Houston’s best sports talk shows.
The talented duo will take over morning drive on ESPN 97.5 FM from 7a-9a starting Monday November 27th. The two men will remain on the air together from 9a-9:30a with midday host Raheel Ramzanali. Granato stays on with Ramzanali each day until 11am.
In taking over the morning slot, Zierlein and Granato gain the majority of hours which were previously occupied by ESPN Radio’s Mike and Mike. Houston had been a market where ESPN Radio had performed well in mornings. The change leaves ESPN Radio’s new show with Trey Wingo and Mike Golic with two less hours of air time each day in one of its top rated markets.
“Reuniting John and Lance is a homerun”, said David Gow, CEO of Gow Media. “For years, people have asked me when those two could do a show again, and now the stars have aligned.”
Recognized by the Houston Press for Best Radio Show and as Best Radio Host, and a longtime analyst for NFL.com, Zierlein began his career at Sports Radio 610 before joining Granato for the launch of Gow Media’s 1560 AM in 2007. Zierlein had been a mainstay in mornings on SportsTalk 790 but elected to exit the radio station this past June, paving the way for Josh Innes to takeover the timeslot.
“I’m really excited about getting back together with John Granato and being part of what David Gow is building with 97.5, Sports Map and Culture Map,” says Zierlein. “John and I had the most talked-about show in Houston because of our chemistry and the fun we had on the air. That’s missing from a lot of the radio shows out there today. It’s time to bring that back in the mornings.”
Granato, who also enjoyed a successful ten-year run at 610, is equally excited about the benefits the new show will provide to his personal and professional relationship with Zierlein.
“It’s huge for me to have Lance back” added Granato. “Not only is he a great friend but I owe a lot to him in my career. And he’s one of the funniest guys I know. A lot of people woke up to us over the years. Hopefully they’ll be back and we’ll get a bunch of new people as well. I’m really excited about being in morning drive again (Except that whole waking up early thing).”
Reflecting on a busy 2017, David Gow believes bigger things are in store for his Houston-based multi-platform media company. “Lance caps off a great year for us”, observes Gow. “With Ken Hoffman, Charlie Pallilo and now Lance Zierlein joining our already-strong roster of talent, we believe we’ve built the ‘dream team’ that Houston’s sports fans are looking for”.
The 14th episode of Season 2 includes a twenty five minute in-studio chat with 670 The Score program director Mitch Rosen. Mitch offers insights into his programming philosophies, explains how he got started, looks ahead to the future of the business and its impact in Chicago, and shares his views on a number of sports radio industry topics.
Jason also dives into this week’s 5 in 5 by offering his perspective on Entercom’s aggressive push for play by play rights, John Skipper’s contract extension, Scott Van Pelt’s issue with ESPN criticisms, the new ESPN Radio lineup and the immediate backlash towards WFAN for installing Chris Carlin, Bart Scott and Maggie Gray as Mike Francesa’s replacements.
SUBJECTS DISCUSSED WITH MITCH:
Becoming interested in sports radio and how he got started
Appreciating the old school ways of the radio business
Moving up from WMVP to being an agent to running 670 The Score
The best and toughest parts of overseeing a heritage sports brand
How to navigate the process when a new market manager comes in
Analyzing the ratings and the excitement that comes with it
The growth in Chicago’s sports radio market share
Whether or not ESPN’s national image has had any local impact
Working thru the process of replacing a high profile iconic personality
How important it is to have familiarity with talent when big gigs open
The value of diversity in sports radio and the way it has improved
What he looks for in on-air talent when openings pop up
Demo tapes and what should be on them to gain his attention
The future of phone calls in sports radio
How to continue reaching talent over a long period of time
Quick Hits: PD advice, One move back, Industry growth, Best Chicago Sports moment
