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Radio Companies Are Opening The Door For Creators and Digital Giants to Emerge

Jason Barrett
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Radio Companies Are Opening The Door For Creators and Digital Giants to Emerge

Many in sports radio circles took notice of the recent moves made by KNBR. The Bay Area sports station parted ways with Tom Tolbert and John Lund, two popular voices on the station. Tolbert is one the most important hosts to ever occupy the airwaves in San Francisco. Lund enjoyed over a decade of success alongside Greg Papa. Neither lost their fastball or ability to connect, but they did have a larger effect on the station’s bottom line. With revenues down for many radio operators, Cumulus Media chose to make bold changes.

Following the news of Tobert and Lund leaving, Greg Silver and Derek Papa were named their replacements. Both are younger and have proven fathers in the industry. They’ve been working hard to reach this level, and though excited to take the reins, they’ve entered less than ideal situations. Fair or unfair, the public will see their arrivals as being driven by cost rather than talent. Over time they can change that narrative. I hope for each of their sake that they do. However, few are going to suggest that this is the ideal way to give young talent a break and enjoy success.

But today’s column isn’t about the Tolbert/Lund and Silver/Papa situation. There’s a bigger issue to address. Radio groups across the country have been parting with a lot of top talent. It’s paving the way for digital companies and creators themselves to develop new ways forward. That begs the question ‘do radio companies care that they’re helping launch businesses that could harm their own’?

Some industry folks blame radio management, salespeople, and advertisers for declining revenues. It’s silly to lump everyone together since different groups and cities face different challenges. Just as fair to question though is how valuable top stars are in today’s radio climate. Is it smart business for a radio outlet to spend a few hundred thousand dollars or even seven figures on accomplished talent when revenues are shrinking? The golden days of radio hosts earning high six figures and low seven figures are decreasing. Many on-air talent would be satisfied earning 100-250 thousand dollars per year. When you reach that level though, it’s easy to expect more once you learn your value to advertisers, investors, and executives.

But at some point, radio has a limit of what it can invest. Given the state of the business, it’s more likely top earners will earn less in the future than more. Talent thinking they’re untouchable because they generate ratings are out of touch with the current landscape. It’s more now about the amount you make, and what you bring in.

Which brings us to digital groups, and talent taking control of their futures.

Locked On, All City, Jomboy, Omaha Productions, The Volume, Outkick, The Ringer, Meadowlark Media, Barstool Sports, Bleav, A to Z Sports, and other digital groups have emerged over the past decade. They see a bright future in digital audio and video while radio still prioritizes its over the air product.

Digital groups are investing dollars in new and proven voices and betting on the come, while radio lives quarter to quarter and year to year, often reducing head count to pursue profitability. Reach, return on investment, and staff sizes aren’t as large for most digital outlets, but it’s only a matter of time before they become larger. In the meantime, they’re hunting for opportunities, and radio just continues making them available.

Take for instance the Bay Area. Since 2020, a massive amount of talent have become available. Among them, Damon Bruce, Larry Krueger, Paul McCaffrey, Ray Ratto, Ray Woodson, Rod Brooks, Bob Fitzgerald, FP Santangelo, Eric Byrnes, John Lund, and Tom Tolbert. Drew Hoffar, Kevin Frandsen, Gianna Franco, Kate Scott, Lorenzo Neal, Chris Townsend, Matt Kolsky, and Ryan Covay were involved in shows too but some landed work in other mediums, while some left the business.

Even executives in the Bay Area have left such as Stacey Kauffman, Lee Hammer, and Jeremiah Crowe. A popular local sports TV host Brodie Brazil was also laid off this year. He’s generated over 10 million views of his content on YouTube. Digital groups see this, and they start developing business plans.

To attract advertisers and listeners/viewers, you need people who are familiar, capable of attracting attention, and possess the ability to move product. One outlet could launch tomorrow with 5-6 of those hosts and deliver a product that could challenge KNBR and 95.7 The Game for local advertising dollars. They wouldn’t be saddled with corporate debt or internal challenges from other cluster brands. They’d also be focused solely on digital not on radio.

Another advantage for creators and digital groups is that YouTube provides a path to monetization. Talent capable of delivering thousands of subscribers and large amounts of watch hours can find a realistic path to 50K-100K annually. That may not be what talent made before, but that also doesn’t include advertising deals, events, or the value of being your own boss, working remotely, and growing a business even larger in years 2, 3 or 4. Keep in mind, if you can get millions to watch, the earnings are even higher.

Look at what transpired last year in Dallas. Mike Rhyner, Jeff Cavanaugh, and Ben and Skin became available. iHeart saw an opening, and and built a brand (97.1 The Freak) with them. It didn’t last or work but it paved the way for All City to enter the market, and scoop up Dan McDowell and Jake Kemp. AllCity took a similar plunge in Philadelphia hiring Anthony Gargano and Jon Marks. Locked On and TEGNA have done something similar in Cleveland reuniting The Bull and Fox. BetRivers has enjoyed success too in New York with Mike Francesa.

A city that could face the same issue in the future is Tampa. WDAE is the local sports radio leader but it hasn’t faced local sports competition since 98.7 The Fan folded in 2014. Meanwhile, people connected to the brand such as Jay Recher, Ian Beckles, JP Peterson, Zac Blobner, John Mamola, Ron Diaz, and Ronnie Lane have either left or been let go. That creates an opportunity for a digital group to build a brand and compete for local sports dollars. Heck, those guys could do it themselves, though it’d take longer, and require adding someone to lead sales and social media, and investing dollars marketing a new product.

If you look to the past, you’ll see what awaits in the future. Clay Travis went all-in on Outkick and dominating the national stage after leaving 104.5 The Zone in Nashville. Bill Simmons created The Ringer after ESPN chose not to renew his contract. Dan Le Batard and John Skipper built Meadowlark Media after ESPN cut ties with Le Batard and his Miami crew.

Even smaller groups like A to Z Sports in Nashville, and hosts like Jake Asman, Damon Bruce, and Tim Montemayor have built businesses after being pushed aside by radio. For some, being your own boss is a stopgap job until something else opens. But one or two will put it together, do big things on their own, and never look back.

I understand radio’s need to control costs, but each time a top talent is sent packing, they’re being dared to launch a business and create future revenue pain for their former outlet. Personalities with established track records possess audience trust, social followings, and team/player and advertising relationships. Not every host who takes the plunge will succeed, but some will. If it’s hard generating revenue now, think about what awaits when you’re selling against increased competition that’s built its identity on your airwaves.

The question radio executives should be asking is ‘why are these people considered expendable to us yet highly valued and sought after by digital groups and local advertisers?’ If we keep cutting ties with difference makers, we shouldn’t be surprised when the difference they make starts to impact our own success.

BNM and BMM Top 20 Series

I mentioned a few weeks ago that our annual Top 20 series for news/talk was moving back to January. The BNM Top 20 of 2024 gets released January 6-10, and January 13. Lists are being sent to all programmers and executive voters today. Music radio will follow, with the first ever BMM Top 20 of 2024 dropping January 20-24 and 27-29. The BSM Top 20 of 2024 doesn’t come out until the first week of February. Given the changes across the radio industry, this year’s results should be interesting.

2025 BSM Summit Sale

The 2025 BSM Summit presented by Point to Point Marketing comes to Chicago on May 8-9, 2025. Tickets this month are ON-SALE for $249.99. They’ll increase to $299.99 on January 1st. 8 speakers were announced last week, and I’ll have more to reveal in the weeks and months ahead. Hotel rooms can also be reserved by visiting the Summit website. The Westin Michigan Avenue is our hotel partner for this year’s show.

Quick Hits

  • A reminder that I’m looking to hire a Music Radio Editor. I’m also going to be adding a part-time social media assistant in early 2025. If interested in being considered, send a resume and work samples to Jason@BarrettMedia.com.
  • Though they’re not in the end zone yet, it appears that ESPN and Stephen A. Smith are close. That’s great news. Stephen A. works his ass off, and has done an incredible job delivering audience and revenue for the company. Jimmy Pitaro and Bob Iger recognize that. Sometimes top stars in business aren’t valued internally the way they are externally. I’m glad that’s not the case here. Stephen A. and ESPN belong together.
  • I don’t love ESPN New York‘s decision to break up The Michael Kay Show but I’m glad that all three members of the show have been retained. Change is inevitable in the radio business. To Michael, Peter and Don, congrats on a heck of a run in afternoons.
  • Chris Mannix‘s piece on Adrian Wojnarowski was excellent. If you haven’t read it, it’s worth your time. The details of Woj’s cancer diagnosis earned most of the attention this week, but there was one part in the story that stood out. Woj said that he reached a point where he didn’t want to spend one more day chasing news that mattered little in the grand scheme of life. He explained how he attended a memorial for Chris Mortensen, and was struck by how many ESPN colleagues weren’t there. It provided a great reminder that the job isn’t everything, and eventually all that’s left are your family and close friends. The older you get, the more that hits home.
  • Thank You ‘Triple H‘ Paul Levesque for getting things done. The WWE product with Pat McAfee at the commentary desk is simply next level. Having Pat back in 2025 as the company launches on Netflix and gears up for WrestleMania season is going to be awesome.
  • It was 20 years ago today that Pantera guitarist “Dimebag” Darrell Abbott was shot and killed on stage by an audience member in Columbus, Ohio. A terrible tragedy that deprived heavy metal fans of one of the genres most important guitar players and bands. I’ll be cranking Walk, Cowboys From Hell, Cemetary Gates, and This Love at max volume today as a way of paying my respects.
  • Media brands that have prioritized TikTok over other social platforms got a big scare last week. A federal court ruled that TikTok can be banned in the US amid safety concerns. TikTok’s parent company ByteDance has until January 19th to sell the platform or law would require app companies like Apple and Google, and internet hosting providers to stop supporting the app thus forcing a ban. ByteDance is expected to file an injunction to ensure that the app does not face extinction in the United States. Regardless of what happens, it’s hard to have faith in a platform that the government frequently discusses shutting down.
  • Stephanie Eads and I are traveling to Nashville in February to finally experience Country Radio Seminar. I’ve heard great things about the show for years, and am excited to cover the event, and build new relationships. For details about the event, go here.
  • Newsmax’s Rob Schmitt is on a roll. The talented host beat CNN’s Erin Burnett head to head during the 7pm ET hour. Schmitt won two of the three days before Thanksgiving, and followed it up with wins last Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. The conservative news outlet is enjoying strong ratings momentum since the election.
  • Congrats to former WCBS 880 anchor Steve Scott. After years of delivering the news in the big apple, Scott has headed west to do the same for the Bay Area’s dominant news outlet KCBS Radio.

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.

Radio Station Ownership’s Choice: Pulling the Plug or Plowing Ahead

Perry Michael Simon
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Radio Station Ownership’s Choice: Pulling the Plug or Plowing Ahead

Can anybody make radio work anymore? I mean, really work, remaining profitable with a long-term future in store?

Stephen King couldn’t. He had what some people would consider the ideal situation for a radio operation – nice little cluster with competitive ratings in a small market where radio sales business is transacted in person – and he’s given up. We get reports from other towns across America of mom-and-pop stations closing and selling off the land under their towers. If you’re one of the dreamers we see on Facebook with the desire to take over a small town station and do it right/have fun/prove that radio isn’t dead, you can get in cheap right now. Why aren’t you?

Correct. You know better. The audience is not growing. Sales are not growing. Entire clusters are now fully automated/voice tracked/unmanned. Big companies are praying that AI will save them. It’s becoming increasingly hard to remain optimistic about the medium.

The other day, while running errands, I listened to a lot of South Florida’s broadcast radio stations. Throughout the week, I kept asking myself, who is this for? Who needs this? The talk radio was abysmal, the music radio pointless in a Spotify age. Is anybody excited by a radio station’s year-end countdown, if they have one, or are they more concerned with their Spotify Wrapped, flawed though it may be this year? (I can think of one exception, WXPN Philadelphia’s wildly eclectic 885 Greatest Songs of the 21st Century, but that’s all.) When Assad flees or Pete Hegseth has another drink, are politically-minded people tuning to radio for opinions or listening to podcasts about it? And is there anyone left doing truly local talk radio or morning radio? (I know, yes, some are, but it’s increasingly rare and if AI could produce even a poor imitation of a local show, radio operators will do it.)

All of this is to say that when you’re looking for reasons why some stations are turning out the lights, a lot of it comes down to whether radio’s providing anything you can’t get elsewhere, anything better than what you can get from streaming. It’s the same dilemma print publications encountered years ago – do you need a newspaper with yesterday’s news when you can get today’s news online – and you know what happened to print.

Take a walk around your neighborhood some morning and count the number of papers on people’s driveways. Then imagine the number of car radios set to streaming instead of AM/FM, and the lack of actual radios in homes, and the percentage of people walking around with smartphones capable of replacing radios, newspapers, television… it’s nothing new, but more people are noticing, and no amount of industry number-slinging – reach! We have reach! – is going to change that.

Once, I thought that the future for radio would be similar to that of newspapers, where insanely rich benefactors would step in and buy properties to preserve them as local institutions, or non-profits would operate commercial stations for the same altruistic reason, but I don’t think that’s gonna happen. It’s not working too well for newspapers, either, if the Jeff Bezos and Patrick Soon-Shiong experiences are any indication. Besides, the old school prestige of being the owner of the local paper doesn’t translate to radio. You own the local radio station? That’s nice. What else do you do?

I don’t know if there’s a return from this, but I do know that reducing local content has killed off one of radio’s two traditional strategic advantages (the other is ubiquity, and that’s just about gone, too). It was about the content and the people who create it, and the lack of effective competition, and now that the content is not compelling and the creators off making podcasts or working in different fields, it’s not unimaginable that other station owners will follow Stephen King in pulling the plug, and taking a write-off rather than try to find another EMF to take the thing off their hands.

If you ARE crazy enough to buy into radio, though, do everyone a favor. Put something on there that’s truly different, something Spotify or podcasts can’t do. Find creative talent and let them do every “you can’t do that” idea they have. If radio’s going down, it might as well go down fighting.

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.

5 Ways To Make Your Listeners Birthday Special While Creating Marketing Gold

Ron Harrell
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5 Ways To Make Your Listeners Birthday Special While Creating Marketing Gold

Radio and digital brands have an opportunity to cut through the clutter and make a momentary connection with the one thing every human on this planet shares: a birthday.

My mother and I shared a December birthday. Add Christmas and four kids to my father’s clergyman salary, and December had to be one of the most stressful months at our house. Time heals and changes reality, but we felt celebrated because our parents did what gifts and trips can never do. They loved us unconditionally.

Okay, now that we’ve checked the Holiday Happy Feelings box, let’s discuss ways to improve our connection with the audience.

Before Al Gore invented the Internet, our database’s birthday acknowledgments were unique. Wait, did we have a database prior to the Internet? Yes. Stations with focused marketing departments nurtured those databases, with names accessed through marketing companies, research respondents, and disciplined street teams. But the Internet has made data-grabbing so much easier over the last thirty years.

Too Much Celebrating

Today, we can wish someone a happy birthday on Facebook, X, LinkedIn, Instagram, Snapchat, and the platform where we live our lives…SMS (texting). Have the multiple ways to deliver the message made the birthday greeting less special?

I celebrated a birthday recently, and the greetings that caught my eye were two email messages. One was from Copper Mountain, one of my favorite ski resorts when I lived in Colorado. I haven’t skied Copper Mountain in 20 years, but I guess I gave them my information, and I’ve never unsubscribed. 

It was special because it reminded me of a great time in my journey. However, there was an immediate internal reaction: “Hey, somebody is paying attention.” Now, think about someone at a place in their life where they need some virtual recognition. Your radio station isn’t simply promoting itself with these emails. It’s connecting, recognizing, encouraging, and possibly changing someone’s day.

If that’s true, and I think it is, then maybe we should put more thought into our database birthday greetings. It’s not enough to email your database a Happy Birthday message. If that’s all you do, please don’t stop. I’m challenging us to refresh the approach.

The second email to get my attention was from Uber. Along with the birthday cupcake graphic, the message went beyond the typical “It’s your special day” accolade.  Their message was unique. “There are 49,211 other drivers and couriers with the same birthday. That’s a lot of cake.” 

Of course, as someone who has sat in more than a thousand weekly promo meetings through the decades, my brain immediately went to the moment someone came up with that idea in the conference room. My second reaction was the reason for writing this column. For a moment, I felt part of a group. Sure, it is a group of 49,211 people I will never know, but it is a group nonetheless. 

Five Things To Consider When Freshening The Approach:

Here are a few ideas to freshen the noisy connection world of database birthday greetings, whether you have a database of 400 or 40,000.

1. It’s In The Mail!: Electronic communication has perfected our procrastination. But if you want something to be delivered to a residential mailbox and arrive in time for a person’s birthday, you have to plan and play the USPS game. Take a group photo of your airstaff celebrating a birthday. Have every staff member sign the card. Keep a stack in the Control Room or the office and have it become part of their daily routine. Oh, wait. Your midday talent is voice tracked from another market? No problem. Send a box of birthday cards with the host’s picture and make it a personal greeting from your midday jock

2. What Do I Get Out Of This: My Planet Fitness birthday message included a $30 gift from several vendors. I didn’t accept it because it meant I had to sign up for another database. However, I’m certain a lot of people take advantage of those “free” gifts. The best gift is one you can use with little or no effort. Include a Starbucks gift link in the email. If you’re sending a snail mail card, include a $10 Dairy Queen or Chick-fil-A card to get a free ice cream.

3. Will I Remember It Next Week?: The birthday greetings from Copper Mountain and Uber made an impression on me. Beyond the nice memory I got from the Copper email, they included a quote from the iconic Warren Miller: “If you don’t do it this year, you’ll be one year older when you do.” Drop the ski pole. Uber gave me a unique number to remember. I’ll likely save both of those emails and easily pull them up when I want to remember the quote or the number. It seems simple, but so far, I haven’t deleted those emails.

4. Can We Get Personal? Technology gives us a new opportunity every week. When your street team is at an event taking selfies with fans, can you take the extra step and get those fans to sign up on an iPad to have the photo enhanced and delivered to their inbox or phone? When you capture the information, maybe they’ll give you a birthday. Then, you resend the photo on their birthday as a memory.

5. What’s Your One Thing?: About 23 years ago, I gave Mark Niederhauser my birthday and anniversary. Every year, I get an email or a text celebrating those events. Mark is a promo guru with Warner Brothers Nashville. There’s a good chance you’re in his birthday database because he made it his One Thing with his clients and friends. Mark hasn’t worked me on a record in more than 20 years, but every August and December, I know I’m getting a note from him. Think about your database as individuals. 

Birthdays are an opportunity to connect with our audience. Create a meeting with your thinkers and refresh the idea of celebrating someone else’s most important day.

Jim Rome at 60 Tells Dan Le Batard He Wants to Interview a Third Generation of Athletes

BSM Staff
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Jim Rome, one of radio’s original bad boys, is still grinding at 60 and said he’s looking forward to interviewing the grandchild of one of the athletes he covered over his career.

Rome was interviewed by Dan Le Batard, another sports radio legend, on Le Batard’s show South Beach Sessions and admitted that he’s matured over the years.

“I’m not that guy everybody hates,” Rome said. “We get older and we evolve.” At this point, something like provoking a fight with former Rams quarterback Jim Everett isn’t likely to happen. “Obviously I would not have canned Everett ‘Chris’ a fifth time, ” he said.

That a more grown-up version of Rome continues to be successful is a bit of a surprise to him. “I used to think when I was 30, the last thing this world needs is a 50-year-old smack talker. Nobody’s listening to that. And yet here I am 60 and talking a little bit of junk,” he said.

Rome and Le Batard reminisced over how Rome got into the young sports radio field. When he was a kid, Rome wanted to be a pro athlete. “I figured out in Little League that’s never going to happen,” he said. “ So how do you stay in sports?”

In high school, Rome recalled being a bit of a nerd, obsessed with sports. “I was not the cool kid for sure. Very small group of friends. Didn’t get the girl,” he said. But he always had a bit of a mouth and had a chip on his shoulder.

“I had something to prove and I was gonna get mine and I wanted to be proud of me, and like, yo, man, I mean things worked out pretty well. How you like me now,’ he said.

Rome said.got his start on a small radio station in Santa Barbara and he was looking for his big break. He dreamed of being on WFAN in New York. Then a San Diego station changed formats and went all sports. He got a job at the station and things happened quickly: a TV show on ESPN2 and a syndicated radio show on stations all over the country.

Though he was on air, Rome always treated his show like a business, because he grew up in a family that owned a small business. “At the dinner table every night I hear ‘take care of the business and the business will take care of you,” he said. “And I told the staff: take care of the show and the show will take care of you.”

At this point in his career, Rome says watched many athletes’ entire careers go by. Some of those athletes did care for his harsh takes. He recalled that Raider Hall of Fame defensive end Howie Long was “one of those guys that heard me on the radio. He threatened to kick my ass.” At one point they met, and Long cracked that Rome was bigger than he’d thought. They bonded a bit while talking about their children.

Long told Rome that he “had a nine-year-old who could beat your ass right now.” Rome never figured out whether Long was talking about Chris or Kyle, both of whom played in the NFL. Either way, they would have,” Rome noted.

Rome said he wants to keep doing the show long enough to interview the grandkids of one of the athletes he’s known and interviewed. And then “when I’m done, I’ll be done.”

While admitting that he spent way more time with his nose to the grindstone than smelling the flowers, Rome didn’t have much regret about his career.

“I’ve lived a whole life, talking sports and interviewing athletes. They pay me to do this. It’s a joke, man. I hope they never find out, but I was going to make sure they never found out by paying that price and doing the work,” he said.

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.

And You Thought Radio Had It Bad…

Dr. Ed Cohen
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And You Thought Radio Had It Bad…

There’s a lot of doom and gloom in the radio business these days and for the most part, there is good reason for it. Whether you use the term “layoff” or “RIF” or “on the beach”, good people have lost livelihoods. Listening levels have declined and even with the change in PPM from five minutes to three minutes to credit the quarter hour beginning early next year, the prognosis isn’t great.

Under the heading of “misery loves company”, it could be worse. Just look at cable. Or perhaps we aren’t supposed to use the word “cable” anymore per a quote in Cynopsis.  Kathleen Finch, the outgoing Chairman and CEO of US Networks at Warner Bros. Discovery (she’s retiring) said during an interview in London that “we should stop limiting ourselves to calling ourselves cable execs that make cable content. That’s going away at some point so what we all are is creatives”. Who would have believed that “cable” could be verboten for cable people? Will Larry the Cable Guy become Larry the Creative Guy? Perhaps we should all become “creatives” although as a researcher, “creative research” generally refers to making it up.

Another trade publication, TV Newscheck, linked to a story in Policyband highlighting some Nielsen data compiled by the research firm MoffettNathanson. If you missed it, Comcast has bundled most of their cable networks into a separate company (temporarily called SpinCo) keeping only Bravo in the Comcast fold. Here’s the relevant chart:

Graphic showing Comcast bundling most of their cable networks into a separate company

If you’re not used to TV data, this is based on persons 18-49 (more prevalent in video than the P25-54 we typically use in radio) and covers the billions of minutes of viewing to the cable networks that are being spun off. Craig Moffett’s comment on the chart involved the use of the word “catastrophic”. Yes, the chart goes back to 2008, but as someone with a bit of experience with Nielsen data, I don’t think I could find ratings data that would show this kind of decline for any one company in our business.

Brad Adgate in Forbes noted that the high-water mark for cable penetration was in May 2011, when Nielsen said 90.7% of all US households subscribed. The most recent number was 55.3%, but “traditional cable” (not including “virtual cable” companies or vMPVDs) was below 40%. Combining 2022 and 2023, almost ten million US households cancelled their cable subscriptions. Per Nielsen’s latest Gauge report (October 2024), just 26.3% of all viewing time for persons 2+ was spent with cable. By contrast, streaming was up to 40.5%, broadcast was 24.0%, and “other” was 9.2%. 

If cable networks have lousy national reach with the possible exception of live sports, what about streaming? Ad Age’s Jack Neff wrote an interesting article last week entitled “Why People See the Same Ads So Often-Behind the Ad Industry’s Murky Secret”. The article is behind a paywall, but if you can get to it, the story makes for some enlightening reading. 

Like many of you, I watch a reasonable amount of streaming. As a hockey fan, watching an entire game on ESPN+ ensures GEICO, Progressive, and a few other advertisers that they’ll get about a ten frequency with me. That’s for one game. Another streamer had us targeted for ads for HIV treatments. 

Let’s put this all together. If we take out live sports, cable network viewing is down drastically to the point that one cable executive, I mean creative executive, suggested that the word “cable” is toxic. Meanwhile, advertisers are paying for crazy frequencies when their ads run on ad-supported streaming platforms. Yet the advertising dollars keep flowing to these platforms when radio, despite our audience decline, offers a far better ad environment at lower cost. 

To someone who has been around for a while, it seems like nothing ever changes. In my younger days, we complained about local ad dollars going heavily into newspapers when circulation was declining. Then it was the glitz of broadcast television while local cable was offering “TV at radio prices”. Now, streamers run ridiculous frequencies for advertisers which may turn consumers against them. I wish I had some brilliant idea to offer that would change things. Maybe you do…

Let’s meet again next week.

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.

Consultant’s Corner: Mike Stern Jacobs Media

Jeff Lynn
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Consultant’s Corner: Mike Stern Jacobs Media

Mike Stern is a music radio consultant specializing in Alternative and Active Rock for the Detroit-based Jacobs Media.

Stern is a former VP of programming for Emmis Chicago. He has overseen stations in Chicago, Detroit, Denver, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, and Dayton.

He is a former editor for the late Radio & Records and Billboard.

He consulted for Arbitron, where he helped launch the twice-weekly column “Not Your Quarter Hour.”

He is this week’s featured consultant.

Jeff Lynn: What is the current state of Alternative radio?

Mike Stern: The format is in a much better state than it was just twenty-four months ago.

For the most part, Alternative stations have stopped chasing after one-off TikTok artists and gone back to what the format is best at: finding and exposing talented new musicians who will (ideally) have long careers.

At the same time stations have done a better job embracing their heritage and understanding the value of core artists from the 90s and 2000s that the majority of their audience still love and want to hear.

JL: How is the current cycle of Alternative music?

MS: Assuming you are asking about new music, at the moment, it’s dreadful. The irony is, if you’d have asked me 120 days ago, I would have said it was amazing. The third quarter yielded a nice group of songs that cut through and researched well with the audience.

But then, just when things were going well, we hit the fourth quarter, and everything dried up. There have been a few bright spots, but stations are mostly still riding songs that should be in recurrent by now while hoping the new year will bring a fresh crop of great new music.

JL: What percentage of current vs. gold makes a good mix?

MS: There simply is not a one-size-fits-all answer for this.

I work with stations that are all over the spectrum when it comes to how much new music they expose. Some of the variables that impact this decision include how much heritage the format has in the market, the competition, what role the station plays in its cluster, the age and ethnic composition of the market, diary or PPM, and much more.

Having said all that, one thing stations could be better at is adjusting based on the product flow. With contemporary music being weaker right now, it would be smarter to cut back on how much they are playing. If stations are playing weaker songs just to fill slots on a playlist, it’s time to adjust and play more gold titles.

JL: And as far as gold is concerned, how far back is it too far?

MS: This answer is very much like the last one. There isn’t a simple formula. Some stations have gone back to the first wave of 80s Alternative music and are having remarkable success. Other stations are more contemporary, and going back that far feels out of place. Generally speaking, though, the format starts with Nirvana.

JL: Does the Alternative audience rely on radio for music discovery, and if so, can you be too unfamiliar vs. playing the hits?

MS: Unfortunately, the audience doesn’t rely on the radio for new music discovery as much as they used to. But that doesn’t mean the station can’t play a role in helping new artists grow their careers. There is still a sweet spot when an artist has begun to grow their following but hasn’t quite broken through to the mainstream where radio can still be a difference maker.

And yes, with that comes the risk of being too unfamiliar by not playing enough hits. That has always been part of the challenge for Alternative programmers. Getting that balance right remains a crucial component of a successful station.

JL: How important is talent to the overall product?

MS: You won’t find a bigger champion for talent than me. The difference a good talent can make in how a station is embraced by the audience cannot be understated.

JL: What is the perceived barrier of entry to advertisers and Alternative radio, and how do you overcome it?

MS: Not being a seller, I may not be the right person to answer this, but I believe the barriers to entry for advertisers at Alternative are easier to overcome today for two reasons.

First, the core gold artists are so much more mainstream. While the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Green Day were once underground acts, today, they fill stadiums.

Second, the listeners have grown up. Alternative stations now attract an older crowd than they used to. The core listeners have careers and children. There are minivans involved!

JL: Are there regional differences in what works in Alternative music?

MS: There are. The format has always been stronger out west than on the east coast. The Midwest tends to be more rock-focused. But I would still say the biggest differences revolve around whether the format was represented in an individual market and during what years. Certain “sure-fire” hits might not have been exposed as much in a city that went without an Alternative station for a period. That difference can really impact a station today.

JL: What advice can you give to talent outside the morning show to perform at a high level?

MS: I don’t believe there is a lot of difference between advice for morning hosts and advice for talent outside of mornings. How they present the material is different, but the concepts are the same:

Be a real person on air. Have feelings, opinions, hopes, dreams, and fears just like your listeners.

Don’t pay lip service to being local. Be a part of your community. Find a way to contribute to your city.

Entertain every time you open the mic. Don’t phone in breaks. We know from PPM that the average time a listener spends with your station is short. Take every opportunity to make an impact.

JL: What is the best career advice you were ever given?

MS: These are more about programming than managing a career, but there are three things I always try to remember and have tried to share over the years:

  • Be brilliant at the basics. Get your fundamentals right. – Steve Goldstein
  • When in doubt, ask the audience. Do as much research as you can. – Fred Jacobs.
  • Be the loudest, most attention-getting station in the market. – Andy Bloom.

Connect with Mike here. 

Jacobs Media

30300 Telegraph Road
Suite 240
Bingham Farms, MI 48025

248.353.9030 Phone

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.

Mina Kimes, Drew Carter and ESPN Heading to Springfield for ‘The Simpsons Funday Football’

Derek Futterman
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Mina Kimes, Drew Carter and ESPN Heading to Springfield for ‘The Simpsons Funday Football’

When Mina Kimes received the call about participating in a new animated NFL telecast themed around The Simpsons, it represented several different passions in one, distinctive venture. Kimes, who has been an avid fan of the sitcom for many years, has thrived as an NFL analyst with ESPN and signed a new multi-year agreement to remain with the company last year. A framed photo of Lisa Simpson is on display within the backdrop of her studio setup, recognizing the individual she regards as a hero who she feels embodies her own characteristics the most.

Even before she was offered a role as an analyst for the presentation, Kimes frequently made references to The Simpsons within her content, conveying an inextricable kinship with an award-winning television staple. The animated comedy is in the midst of its 36th season and has produced 776 episodes throughout that time, entertaining audiences through modern satire and epochal hyperbole.

“When you watch the game, if you’re a fan of the show, you’re going to be rewarded in so many ways, not just with how unusual and fun it is, but with all of the references,” Kimes said, “and I think being able to draw on so many seasons, so many characters, so many quotable lines, is what’s going to make this thing really sing.”

Consumers will be able to view this animated presentation of the Monday Night Football matchup between the Cincinnati Bengals and Dallas Cowboys utilizing the ESPN+ or Disney+ streaming services. The alignment of dissemination verticals aligns with ESPN’s strategy of audience expansion as traditional media companies evolve and look to thrive amid altered equivalencies and new stakeholders, such as technology firms and social media outlets.

In addition to The Simpsons Funday Football production, the traditional broadcast of the game will air on ESPN and ABC. Disney is simulcasting Monday Night Football on the over-the-air broadcast network for the remainder of the regular season, and this feed will also be available on ESPN+. The streaming service and ESPN2 will present Monday Night Football with Peyton and Eli as the alternate broadcast continues its fourth season. Kimes is focused on executing her role within this multiplatform accumulation of telecasts, which has involved varied means of preliminary tasks.

“I have spent more time with these teams – I would watch them anyways despite sort of where their seasons are trending – but I’ve spent extra time studying the rosters [and] some of their tendencies just knowing that this game was around the corner,” Kimes said. “And then as far as The Simpsons-related prep, again, it’s kind of going back and reading up on some of the characters and their catchphrases and watching some of the clips and here and there just so that I kind of feel immersed enough in Simpsons world to actually call the game like I live there.”

Kimes will call The Simpsons broadcast alongside analyst Dan Orlovsky and play-by-play announcer Drew Carter. Whereas Kimes and Orlovsky star on NFL Live and were friends before starting at ESPN, she and Carter have not had a chance to collaborate at the company. Carter looks forward to exhibiting the rapport he has established with his colleagues as they bring commentary to a game rife with external elements.

“A lot of it, especially when you’re in a three-man booth, is saying what you need to say and then getting out of the way,” Carter explained. “We’ve had a lot of conversations about how we’re going to handle a three-man booth when it’s not traditional and you can’t glance at the other person or tap them on the shoulder because we’re not going to be right next to each other.”

Disney+ integrated an ESPN+ tile into its app last week, rendering a streamlined viewing experience that blends different subsections of the company. Curating the selection amid the user interface allows for the company to aim in diminishing purported divergences as it gears towards building out its direct-to-consumer products. This includes the expected launch of the ESPN Flagship direct-to-consumer product next fall.

“I think just everybody’s watching it for different reasons,” Kimes said. “There are diehard fans of the team, there are people who nerd out on football stuff and then there’s folks who want to be entertained, and hopefully our game will bring all of those things, but I think that unique flavor is something that could make this extra entertaining, especially for fans of the show.”

When Disney approached the NFL with the idea for alternate broadcasts, the league was supportive and viewed it as an opportunity to leverage a global franchise and expand awareness and viewers of football. The undertaking has been approximately one year in the making, and the league is excited to take part in the journey of this experience featuring two exhilarating football teams. Although the league considers itself fortunate to have best-in-class partners producing games that average 18.1 million viewers per matchup, it views digital media as an area of growth.

“Disney+ is a robust area with the millions and millions of subscribers they have,” said Hans Schroeder, executive vice president and chief operating officer of NFL Media. “To bring an NFL experience into that environment that’s new and different is incredibly exciting. To go into borders and across borders in a different way, to go into time zones and to time periods that we don’t typically offer our content in. All of those are, for us, tremendous opportunities to engage, to learn, and hopefully for our fans to give them new experiences that will inform what we do going forward.”

Having access to a wide array of intellectual property enables properties within Disney business units to work in tandem and catalyze unparalleled projects. Carter has been synonymous with several of these efforts, including the two iterations of the Big City Greens Classic. In Week 4 of the NFL season last year, Carter called the first animated NFL telecast in the history of the company centered around the Toy Story franchise. The presentation faced difficulties early on related to a faulty chip within a football, but things smoothed over once the football was taken out of rotation.

“This is like putting together a live broadcast on steroids,” Carter articulated. “You’re taking all of the technical challenges and potential pitfalls and multiplying it by a thousand, so hopefully it goes off without a hitch.”

The animated broadcast will follow a storyline that aligns with the format of typical episodes of The Simpsons. In fact, those associated with the show have created custom scenes and elements to be used throughout the presentation. Carter, Kimes and Orlovsky will be interviewing many of The Simpsons characters during the game that will add to the viewing experience. Kimes is cognizant of the fact that due to the profusion of ancillary content, there may not be as much time for the incisive, penetrating commentary she delivers on other platforms.

“Folks aren’t watching for detailed Xs and Os breakdowns of every single play, but you’re watching this [thinking] you want to be entertained, but you also want to follow the game,” Kimes delineated, “and I think in moments where there are big plays or big decisions, choosing the moments wisely as ones where Dan and I can just be analysts and do analysis, while also, in other sports, laying out for all of the incredible Simpsons-related content.”

The broadcast will operate on a slight delay, allowing for the production team to replace NFL players with characters from the show so they can make signature plays, fully leaning into the milieu associated with The Simpsons universe. Even though select members of the crew will know the sequence of plays slightly ahead of time, Carter professed that he will vaguely be informed by a producer that something big is forthcoming.

“You want to walk that line where our reaction has to be organic like we are calling a regular game,” Carter said. “Like Joe Buck has no idea what’s going to happen on any given snap, so you have to be ready, but also being ready in the sense that if we want to put one of these characters in the game or we want to roll in an element, knowing that we’ll be able to do that in a way that maximizes all the hard work that people have put into it.”

Ahead of Monday night’s broadcast, Carter divulged that Kimes may introduce herself to viewers akin to The Simpsons character Troy McClure, specifying locations from where they may know her. There has been a proliferation in ESPN personalities taking on projects through partnerships or licensing deals with the company in recent years, working in tandem to generate new offerings and elevate their personal brands. In the end, Kimes believes that her involvement with various media properties can foster augmented levels of awareness towards this animated enterprise.

“My hope is that people who tune into this game, some of them recognize us from NFL Live, or maybe people who listen to my podcast or watch it on ESPN2 are inclined to follow me to ESPN+ to watch this game,” Kimes said. “I think that’s the thing about having all of these shows on different platforms is we are sort of the common thread between them, and the hope is that familiarity will maybe drive interest or reward people who have been longtime listeners and viewers.”

Prior to being asked to participate in this presentation, Carter had never seen an episode of The Simpsons. As a result, part of his preparation for the show has been watching episodes within the series, learning the characters, salient eccentricities and taglines. Carter envisions the show leaning on Kimes’ passion and knowledge for The Simpsons, but he has enjoyed different aspects of the comedy amid constructing the groundwork of his foundational proficiency in this sector.

“I’m crushing tape, but instead of football, I’m watching a TV show,” Carter emphasized. “It’s the most fun I’ve ever had prepping for a game.”

Whereas the Toy Story broadcast last season utilized motion capture suits for the commentators, the team will be wearing Meta Quest Pro headsets this year and experiencing the game from Springfield. The technology permits customization of the surroundings for the broadcasters to enable the ease of following the game, but there are challenges associated with the added immersion into this environment. For example, even though the broadcasters will all be calling the game from the Bristol studios, they will not be able to nonverbally communicate and pick up cues.

“The good thing about calling football games is I play fantasy football, so pretty much everyone who catches a pass or runs the ball, I’ll know who they are and not have to look down,” Carter said. “It’s just the only time it becomes difficult is when I want to reference a stat or something that I have in my notes in front of me, and I have to take the headset off to do that, so it takes some time getting used to for sure.”

In addition to this broadcast airing during prime time, the show is also expected to appeal to a broader demographic. Even though Carter has not been in meetings with research and analytics professionals, he views the average viewer as either a fan of the animated comedy or those who are curious about the presentation. Kimes reminisced on watching Toy Story Funday Football and remembered several explainer segments that broke down aspects of football in simple terms for younger audiences to understand.

“I think my intention is to do this with all ages in mind, but it’s definitely not going to be geared towards kids in the same way,” Kimes said. “Probably, however, if there’s a difference between this and a normal game, other than all the many very obvious differences, it’s just kind of leaning into the casualness and the fun of it.”

Later in the month, Carter is going to be calling the first real-time animated NBA game on ESPN platforms, a Christmas Day matchup between the San Antonio Spurs and New York Knicks taking place at Madison Square Garden. Carter, along with ESPN NBA analyst Monica McNutt, will utilize the virtual reality headsets to call the game from Main Street, USA featuring iconic Disney characters including Mickey and Minnie Mouse. The presentation will air at 12 p.m. EST on ESPN2, Disney+ and ESPN+, accompanying the traditional broadcast and commencing the five-game NBA slate.

“I think those characters are more geared towards a younger audience, so that part of it is different,” Carter said. “But I think The Simpsons is actually easier to prepare for, I think, because it’s just one show, whereas the Disney telecast, it’s pulling from a variety of different properties. So, it will be different, but to be honest with you, I’m kind of taking it one game at a time.”

Throughout his career in sports media, Carter has pondered over the value of his profession on numerous occasions. While doctors, teachers and lawyers all have direct impacts on their clientele, he avers that it is tougher to evince the residual effects as a broadcaster. After the first animated broadcast of NHL Big City Greens, Carter received messages on social media about how the project inspired viewers to become more invested in hockey, effectuating awareness, consumption and retention. Discerning the inherent value of the Disney portfolio, ESPN and its partners have shifted the paradigmatic means of presentation and remain committed to enriching the viewing experience with a creative verve premised on innovation towards a new frontier.

“That’s the mission statement – it’s ‘Serving sports fans’ – so for us, we want to give people a different way to consume their favorite product, whether that’s The Simpsons or football, or preferably if people like both, this is a beautiful marriage of those two things and a chance for them to watch that in a way that they’ve never seen it before. In a way, it’s like a three-hour Simpsons movie, so if you love the show, then you’re going to love the game, and if you love football, you want to see it presented in a different way.”

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. To stay updated, sign up for our newsletters and get the latest information delivered straight to your inbox.

Sports Radio KJR Seattle’s Dave ‘Softy’ Mahler and Dick Fain Deliver Exactly What the Listeners Expect Each Afternoon

Dave Greene
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Sports Radio KJR Seattle’s Dave ‘Softy’ Mahler and Dick Fain Deliver Exactly What the Listeners Expect Each Afternoon

There are veteran sports talk radio hosts and then there’s Sports Radio 93.3 KJR in Seattle’s Dave ‘Softy’ Mahler and Dick Fain. The duo hosts the afternoon drive show on the station, Softy and Dick, and have done so since 2018. The two KJR institutions have been with the station, however, since the late 90’s, and had worked together prior to partnering up in afternoons.

While I was very aware of their show, having seen it listed for many years in the BSM Top 20 Major Market Local Sports Radio Afternoon Shows lists, I had never heard more than a small portion of it, so, I was excited to tune in and eavesdrop in on the Friday Dec. 6th edition of the show.

At first, it was hard for me as an ‘outsider’ to tell who was who, as both hosts sound somewhat similar when they’re talking in a passionate manner. And let me tell you, they talk that way a lot. A whole lot.

In fact, of all the shows I have listened to for this weekly feature, this show stands out as the one that sounds the most like real fans of the local teams are hosting. I don’t mean they are always a fan of what is happening, rather they talk about sports in a way that is less like your standard sports talk host and more like you would hear in a group setting with a bunch of guys kicking around the sports topics of the day.

Where the two hosts separate is Fain has some lower gears. Softy, not so much. If he is speaking, he is generally doing so at a high volume and the point he is making will be a passionate one. It’s what makes him who he is and one of the reasons he has succeeded for so long in the market.

A Seattle Time article from 2016 described him this way: “Softy is beloved for his passion. He rants, raves, cries and shouts depending on how his teams — your teams — are doing. Fans relate to him because he cares as much as they do. Sometimes that’s the problem. Among his critics, he can cross the line with personal attacks or rash reactions. Washington State and Oregon fans loathe him, and he gleefully antagonizes them.” 

Let’s be honest, every market needs someone in sports talk media who fits that description. Seattle has Dave ‘Softy’ Mahler.

On this ‘Football Friday’ the guys were forced to get their takes in quickly. The station is home to the Seattle Kraken broadcasts and with the team on an east coast road trip, pregame was starting only 90 minutes into what is normally a four-hour show.

The hosts wasted no time getting right into football talk as they pointed out that there are differing opinions at the radio station around why the Seattle Seahawks offense is as bad as it is. The hosts pointed it is most likely a “system failure, with a lot of people to blame, so it isn’t hard to see why people can’t agree on which is the biggest area to blame.”

As Fain gave his opinion, he mentioned something called D.V.O.A. – which stands for Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. He mentioned the team is last in the league in Offensive D.V.O.A. When he did, Mahler cut him off before he got too far. “We have a habit sometimes in this business of throwing stuff out there like that and assuming everyone knows what the hell we are talking about,” Softy said. “So, what the hell does D.V.O.A. even mean for the average schmuck out there, meaning me?”

Fain explained that it measures a team’s efficiency by comparing success on every single play to a league average based on situation and opponent. After talking through it, Softy deduced it is similar to a handicap in golf.

Next up, the veteran hosts did a very veteran move by recalling audio clips from The Ian Furness Show, which airs prior to them. Furness had gotten a couple of educated opinions on the Seahawks offense, both of which mentioned the team’s Offensive Coordinator Ryan Grubb who is in his first season with the Seahawks and first season in the NFL after a successful run as a college coach.

The hosts went back and forth on different reasonings for the offensive struggles and covered the entire topic about as in-depth as possible. They even got into the nitty-gritty of whether or not the offensive line struggles more with run blocking or pass blocking and the hosts showed in that part of the conversation they can disagree a bit and talk through it, so it provides both entertainment and value for the listener, with differing opinions.

The hosts brought in producer Jackson Felts as a third voice and had him give his take on the Seahawks and how they can continue to lose games despite having one of the league’s best defenses.

While virtually no part of the Seattle offense went unscathed in the conversation, it was clear the one place everyone agreed on was the offensive line. Softy added in summation, “We are [usually] tasked here every day with filling four hours of radio and going on the air and saying for four hours ‘the offensive line sucks, the offensive line sucks, the offensive line sucks,’ over and over again is not going to do anybody any good.

“But if we weren’t doing this for a living, and all three of us were just sitting in a bar talking about the Seahawks, having a drink, we would say ‘the offensive line sucks, let’s talk basketball.’ It’d take two seconds for this conversation to be over and we would move on.”

Later, I learned it doesn’t always have to be a topic about local sports that can fire these guys up. As they talked about Bill Belichick interviewing for the head coaching positing at the University of North Carolina and the story being reported that he had asked for his son Stephen to be named head-coach-in-waiting as a condition if he accepted the job, they had the same amount of oomph behind their thoughts.

As the guys pointed out, college football has never been run more like the pros than it is now, so perhaps it is a better fit than anyone would think at first. They talked about whether or not Belichick’s interest in the job is more about the future position for his son or if it could be he doesn’t think he would be able to secure one of the open NFL jobs this offseason.

A partnership with a local casino had the hosts playing ‘Fact or Fiction’ with the audience where they chose the Carolina Panthers, getting 12.5 points against the Philadelphia Eagles as their play of the week. The challenge was to guess if that play would hit and be a fact or miss and be fiction. (Turned out to very much be a fact!). The promotion netted someone a weekly $1,000 prize and a chance at an overall $10,000 grand prize.

That segment of the show was followed up by handicapper Lee Sterling joining the show and giving some of his picks for the week from both college and pro football. They ended the segment with the Seahawks, who were 2.5-point underdogs at the Arizona Cardinals, despite the team having a 9-1-1 record in their last 11 games at State Farm Stadium.

Sterling provided some excellent foresight as he said the Cardinals would be treating the game as a ‘must-win’ for playoff positioning, and historically the team has failed in those types of games. He took the Seahawks and nailed the pick as they won the game outright, 30-18.

Before the show wrapped, the hosts welcomed former NFL quarterback and current football analyst Hugh Millen on. The only negative part of the interview was they eventually ran out of time needing to hit the Kraken pre-game show on time. Millen was hot from the get-go when he was asked about some of the opinions which had been given on the station that day as it related to the Seahawks and, more specifically, the job being done by Grubb. He explained he watches a lot of tape and does in-depth reviews of the Seahawks offense to form his opinion of how the rookie Offensive Coordinator is doing.

“I have to take every ounce of knowledge I have acquired over 50 years to determine what the problem is,” Millen said. “I’m not listening to ‘Wally Website’ who throws out an opinion.” Millen said he only likes to hear the opinion of someone who could draw up football plays on a board and explain them in detail.

“If they can’t give me something that impresses me, I’m not listening,” he added. “Some guy who has an agenda because he loves the quarterback, now he is going to rip on the offensive coordinator, because it fills his narrative about how he loves the quarterback. I’ll pass on that analysis.”

Millen emphatically said about the job of being an offensive coordinator, “I think it’s damn hard.” He added, referring to analyzing the role a coordinator plays in the success or failure of a team, “It’s the hardest thing I do as an analyst.”

Softy Mahler and Dick Fain were cut short on this Friday and when the show finished, they had a lot more to give. They’ll have to hold the rest until after the weekend, although you get the feeling they’ll still be talking sports and giving their opinions of what is happening in local and national sports. That’s who they are and that is exactly what Seattle sports fans have come to expect in afternoon drive each weekday on KJR.

‘Sunday Night Football’ Drafts Chiefs fan Heidi Gardner for Pre-Game Tease

BSM Staff
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NBC Sports called on female Chiefs fan–no not that Chiefs fan–to help open Sunday Night Football this week.

Heidi Gardner of Saturday Night Live appears (after Carrie Underwood’s Waiting All Day for Saturday Night) to explain why rooting for Kansas City is so much fun.

Being a Chiefs fan can be “entirely unpredictable . . . or completely foreseeable. Unbelievably spectacular . . . or just the same thing over and over again,” Garnder says.

“I’m talking about winning,” she says. ““Maybe everyone else gets tired of us. But then, do something about it.”

Gardner also throws a little shade on the Chiefs’ opponent, the San Diego Chargers, talking about weird things coach Jim Harbaugh and quarterback Justin Herbert have done.

SNF is usually the highest rated primetime program on TV and NBC has been dressing it up by using big names to tease the upcoming matchup. Among those appearing so far this season are Celine Dion, Samuel L. Jackson and Michael Keaton.

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Jon Heyman Hangs Up on Keith McPherson During Radio Interview, Says He is ‘Done with WFAN’

BSM Staff
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Jon Heyman Hangs Up on Keith McPherson During Radio Interview, Says He is ‘Done with WFAN’

As the sweepstakes to sign free agent outfielder Juan Soto continue, rumors are percolating around the baseball world concerning the 26-year-old free agent. With fans looking for the latest information from insiders, various sports radio stations have had writers on to discussion the situation. Jon Heyman, insider for MLB Network and columnist at the New York Post, came onto the program to discuss the latest information surrounding Soto and the rest of Major League Baseball free agency.

Keith McPherson, who started hosting at WFAN approximately three years ago, asked Heyman about the situation, but he also ostensibly questioned his credibility as a journalist. McPherson cited Heyman’s reporting surrounding the free agency of Yankees outfielder Aaron Judge in 2022, specifically citing when he tweeted that he appeared headed to the San Francisco Giants. In the post, Heyman misspelled Judge’s first name, writing ‘Arson’ instead of ‘Aaron,’ which continues to be referenced by social media users. Moreover, McPherson insinuated that Heyman is being paid by Scott Boras, the agent for Soto, to report certain information. In fact, he asked how much money from the Soto deal Heyman would get for breaking the story.

“Unfortunately, I get no money for anything,” Heyman said. “I have no financial stake.”

McPherson explained that Heyman probably would not break the Soto news since Boras is based on the West Coast, causing a three-hour time difference. In reply, Heyman explained that there is a lot of competition for the stories and that it is unknown where you can get them. Furthermore, Heyman explained that he is not represented by an agent and that those who are may have certain advantages.

McPherson elucidated that it would be good for Heyman to break the news regarding Soto in order to put the aforementioned Judge tweet in the proverbial rear-view mirror. This led him to question the difference between what Soto could potentially receive compared to the reported nine-year, $360 million deal that Judge received as a free agent.

“By the way, I don’t need to break this story,” Heyman said later in the interview. “I’ve broken a lot of stories. I think the reason that got such play is because people believe everything I tweet. I have 100,000 tweets, and you get one that was wrong – and it did say ‘appears’ – and I know I rushed it and it was a big mistake and I regret it, but two years later, at some point I think someone could probably drop it if they’re a nice person.”

Upon making this point, McPherson mentioned the way he introduced Heyman, stating that everyone in baseball knows who he is and respects his work. Heyman cut him off, seemingly taking umbrage towards what McPherson had stated amid the interview, and said that he would not be going on the radio with him again. In addition, he conveyed that the entire segment had been a disaster, prompting McPherson to laugh and say that it was okay. Heyman seemed nonplussed that McPherson would question his integrity, specifying when he asked if he was getting a portion of the contract just because he has a relationship with an agent.

“I know you’re not a journalist – you don’t know anything about this. I know you get it – you don’t – but that’s an outrageous comment. You should know that much – you should know that much, and I’m done with you, and I’m done with WFAN. Goodbye. I can’t even believe it. I can’t even believe it!”

As the segment ended, McPherson articulated that Heyman needed to get to bed and that he did not expect the interview to go that way. From there, he expounded on his perspective about the exchange and how some of his comments were in jest.

“I think if you heard my tone and the way that I am completely joking and kidding and having a lighter conversation, something that I spoke recently about too, with all of this Juan Soto genre is like we need some comic relief, man,” McPherson said. “I introduced you and gave credit to how everybody follows your words and your tweets and what you do, and if you felt some type of way about it, and even like you said you regret it, I said, ‘No regrets.’”

McPherson apologized to Heyman if the remark came off as being flippant, understanding that it may have been a sore spot after two years. Additionally, he assumed that Heyman may have something better to do regarding Soto’s free agency and was surprised that the interview went 10 minutes.

“If you were listening to my show earlier, I said some of those things,” McPherson explained. “I’m very lighthearted, I’m not a journalist, I’m not trying to be a reporter. I’m a radio host and a fan, and this is all fun and entertainment, and I’m sorry if you’re offended and you weren’t having fun on my show.”

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