At a recent industry event, the CEO of Talk Media Network, Josh Leng, observed the presence of a new generation of skilled executives dedicated to expanding the news/talk radio format and improving the radio industry.
As a former experienced officer in the Air Force, Leng values building relationships, and his successful plan for his syndicated radio company is a testament to that.
During the period shortly after being laid off and facing a non-compete agreement, Leng created TMN from the ground up. He established strong brands based on the knowledge and experience of successful industry professionals.
Leng began his career as a producer for well-known stations, including KFI-AM 640 in Los Angeles, WBAL-AM 1090 in Baltimore, KNST-AM 790 in Tucson, and WOOD-AM 1300 in Grand Rapids. Later, he went on to program 790 KNST, 1340 WJRW, 1240 WJIM, 1490 WKLQ, Michigan Media Network, and the Michigan Talk Network.
During a recent interview with Barrett News Media, Leng shared his positive outlook on the future of Talk Media Network. He also discussed the lack of creativity and talent development at the syndicated level, explained how he successfully turned around ratings and revenue at his former station KNST and highlighted the essential qualities he utilized when launching his syndication network 13 years ago.
Ryan Hedrick: Can you explain the contrast between being a program director and managing your own network?
Josh Leng: The radio station already has a presence and a roster or a lineup in each market, and it’s about your imaging and engagement with your community and improving the lineup as best you can.
With a network, a start-up network, you’re building everything from the ground up. While our audience is still the listener, as a network or a syndication head, I am marketing to radio stations. I am marketing to those decision makers that sat in the PD chair, OM, general manager, or owner chair, who decide what’s the best fit in their community.
RH: As the former program director at KNST in Tucson, you achieved a significant turnaround for the station. Can you share what factors contributed to this success?
JL: I was asked to observe and learn for the first six months that I was there, and then I was given the latitude to make a lot more changes. My OM wanted me to get to know and understand the community and how it was unique. There are a lot of things that translate well to a news/talk station, no matter where it’s located in the country.
With KNST, it was being challenged by an upstart FM news talker that had pulled programming from KNST and KVOI in the market that had established listenership and following. [The turnaround at KNST] was about fighting back. Up until I was given the reins and latitude to make decisions, the FM news talker, which had been programmed by Andrew Lee and Jon Justice, was stealing core listeners from KNST. That’s what really needed to be turned around.
A lot of it was lineup improvement and imaging, and also taking a vocal role myself in the morning show to help bring a balance of ideas and opinions to the show that wasn’t there before, which would help better connect with our P1s.
Our biggest move was that talk radio had a high engagement with the Tea Party, and we did help promote and were a significant presence at a major Tea Party event. We put on a book signing event with Sheriff Joe Arpaio, which was front-page news in the local newspaper because of the protests that were occurring outside, where they were physically beating Sheriff Joe Arpaio pinatas in the parking lot. You can’t pay for that kind of marketing.
RH: KNST was an AM station with a strong community connection. The topic of discussion lately has been the AM band. Do you still believe in the effectiveness of AM radio?
JL: I believe in radio in general, Ryan. In that, wherever there is great content, no matter which band it’s distributed on, listeners will find it and build habits around it when well-marketed.
The health of a band relies on all the stations that are programmed on that band. The more reasons that a listener has to be on that band, the more it will be used. Not to say that an FM translator isn’t a piece of valuable radio real estate.
The majority of listeners are not cumeing AM radio. That may be because they have an FM translator, they have an FM simulcast, or they haven’t built that habit and awareness yet.
Platforms now in a well-led station will not be focused on AM or FM, but they will meet every listener where they are on the platform they want to be met on. A great radio station will also have streaming, they’ll also have podcasts, it’s about getting their content in front of their audience in the manner that they want to consume.
I think that radio stations that are planning comprehensively will be successful in the long term.
RH: What do you think about individuals who criticize the radio industry after losing their jobs? Does this negatively affect the image of the industry?
JL: That is an astute observation. There was one host, who I won’t name, that I had a great national relationship who was never syndicated by TMN. When he was getting ready to leave talk radio, he chose to go podcast only. I was very disappointed that he was walking over the bridge to leave what I considered was a successful and invaluable show, that he set the bridge on fire and tried to burn radio down on his way out.
Radio had given multiple decades of success to that host. Yes, things change, that’s the one constant, and you may have to evolve and adapt to a degree, but how can you turn like that?
I don’t think a bitter host is good to have on the air. In one sense, I’m glad that those true colors of that individual have been shown because if they truly loved radio, they would still be passionate and positive about it.
RH: As a radio professional, you have experienced being fired. Considering the non-compete holding you back, you persevered and established Talk Media Network. Can you share how you managed to maintain your focus and turn a negative situation into a positive outcome?
JL: What I put into action was a plan that I had been thinking about for years and wasn’t going to act on for another 5-10 years after I had enough experience working at different radio stations, in larger markets, as you climb the ladder in your career. It just so happened with the circumstance that I was put in that I decided to sharpen that plan and put it into action earlier than I had originally thought.
RH: When creating a blueprint for running a radio syndication company, what essential pieces are you incorporating to ensure your success?
JL: The first two and a half years, there was a lot of show development, marketing assistance, from the standpoint of preparing a show for syndication or improving a show that’s in syndication that needs a variety of better marketing materials, better show clock, better show demo, better imaging and positioning statements, and host development and coaching.
RH: How reliable are radio ratings when it comes to promoting your syndication company to clients and advertising agencies?
JL: Ratings and data allow you to have a selling point, but your data does not have to be Nielsen ratings solely. As a station, you have your streaming numbers, unique visitors, and session lengths. I just had a meeting this week where there’s polling and survey data that has been crunched that is given a de facto rating, not in a Nielsen sense, to radio stations to know how engaged those listeners are.
This was just a sample, but what it proved was how much it could move the needle, with a four-week campaign, with a control group, and with a campaign on the other stations. You may be surprised that the biggest stations don’t always move the needle the most.
A medium to smaller-sized market or station with great programming and high engagement may be the one that will, on a cost-per-dollar basis, get a better result for an advertiser.
We are using that information going forward to help whom we market our shows on a priority basis. More non-Nielsen data will be coming forward not only in syndication but also in marketing radio stations.
RH: Can you provide your perspective on distinguishing between a highly skilled local host and a national talk show personality that you might consider adding to your network?
JL: I have the great honor of working with many talented, highly respected professionals in the talk radio industry. You know when you hear (talent) come through the speakers when a host is different or in a league of their own.
I wouldn’t say that certain hosts are destined to be local hosts for their entire careers. They can grow and they can develop. There are talented talk hosts in major markets that could be on national radio, but they have lucrative contracts to be at the station in the market they are in; there is nothing wrong with that.
Network radio is here to provide great content at the times and in the areas where stations are not able to provide that locally. Our bar needs to be set as high as possible because our decisions don’t affect just one station like a PD. They can affect hundreds or thousands of stations.
RH: Do you consider the actions of other syndication companies, such as Premiere Networks or Westwood One, when making decisions for Talk Media Network?
JL: I have not seen a lot of innovation in the last 17 years at the network syndication level. There have been a lot of safe calls. Companies making the easier choice which I don’t believe is necessarily the best talent. Or they are just refeeding best-of-hours instead of staying live with original programming.
Our goal is to be as live as possible as much as possible at Talk Media Network. I do believe that a number of the talents that have been shown the door by other networks were put to pasture by other networks either because of cost-cutting or ageism.
RH: What are your reasons for being optimistic about the future of Talk Media Network?
JL: Our roster continues to grow and become stronger every year. Recently, a couple of stations came to add one show, and that station left with 16 shows. Another radio station we needed to communicate with about a clock change went from airing 10 hours of our programming to airing 73 hours a week.
We’ve grown by hand, a majority of our affiliate clearances. It’s relationship building. We’ve only continued to gain momentum.
