Do you remember your first day in radio? I remember mine like it was yesterday.
It was the summer between my freshman and sophomore year in college, June of 1994. The day after I came home from school, my best friend’s dad, who was in the advertising business, lined up an interview for a summer internship with KFNS in St. Louis.
I met with the Program Director and the Assistant Program Director and they both seemed as if they wanted to be doing anything else besides talking to me. In fact, the APD fell asleep while we were talking – true story.
They said I was a little late in coming to talk with them, but if someone backed out they would give me a call. Sure enough, about a week later, the PD called and asked if I’d be willing to work the morning shift and get to the station at 5:30am, three days per week. I lived about 45 minutes away from the station, but he could have said 2:30am, I was in!
The following Sunday night, I don’t think I slept. I was so excited and was so worried about sleeping through my alarm that I was dressed and ready to go by 4:00. I hopped in my car and drove to the radio station, in the St. Louis suburb of Clayton, and parked in the garage as I was instructed. What wasn’t in my instructions was how to get in the building. Every door I went to was locked. I had no clue what to do and I was panicking. As I went back towards my car, a woman had pulled into the garage and was running hurriedly to the door as if she was late. Turns out, she was the producer of the morning show on a sister station and she was, in fact, running late.
“I’m trying to get up to KFNS,” I yelled as she was sprinting to the door. “This way,” she yelled back as the door was about to close. I caught it with my foot and followed her up the stairs and through the door to the radio station. “New guy’s here, nice of you to tell him how to get in,” she hollered at the producer in the KFNS studio as she ran into the studio across the hall.
And so, it began. I was hooked from my first shift. I never wanted to leave. As it turned out, I hardly ever did. I’ve written about this before, but those that are new to my column may not know that I worked for KFNS for the next seven and a half years, eventually co-hosting morning drive, until I took my first management job in Memphis. I later came back and was part of an ownership group that bought KFNS and spent another four and a half years there as President and General Manager.
I bring all this up to lead you to this week when I hired two brand new salespeople to join our staff at KCSP in Kansas City. To protect the innocent, I will use only their first names as I tell you a little bit about how their first day on the job went.
Nick is 25 years old and is a ball of energy. I met him through one of our on-air hosts when he was working as a General Manager for two Mr. Goodcents locations in the Kansas City area. He came in to talk with me about some promotional ideas and after talking with him for about ten minutes, I wanted to hire him. I asked him about his background and he told me about some selling he had done in the wireless industry and in digital media. That was all I needed to hear. High energy, creative, smart and had done some sales. I quickly turned the conversation towards seeing how happy he was in his current position and it turned out he was ready for a change.
Adam is a 30-year-old former Division I basketball player who answered a post we had on Indeed.com. He was one of several interviews I did in one day and stood out from the others I had talked to by far. After playing some pro ball overseas, Adam worked for a couple of technology companies and had a lot of experience with sales and, most importantly, with cold calling. Mostly, I loved that Adam was very motivated by money and loved competition. He’s also very good at tracking his own success. I know this, because I’d looked up his basketball stats and mentioned that I saw he shot 39% from behind the three-point line. He quickly pointed out that it actually rounded up to 40%!
After a hectic first day I sat down with both and first asked them about what they’d been thinking about since officially taking the job just over a week prior. “To me, the toughest part of starting any sales job is learning the products and turning your leads into appointments,” said Nick. “I was mainly thinking of my game plan so that I can learn the products in such a way that I can get people to want to talk to me. For me, it’s all about absorbing all of the information and becoming comfortable with the products as quickly as possible.”
Adam said: “My first thoughts were about which customers I have previous relationships with that I can call and get an appointment with. Who do I know that will give me the ten or fifteen minutes I might need to get in front of them and tell them where I’m at and see if it might be a fit for them?”
I also wanted to know what they were looking forward to, now that they had a little bit more information about the company and what the job was. “I’m just looking forward to being in the environment and to learning the industry,” Nick said. “I can’t wait to get out and sell these guys that I’ve been listening to for years and helping them make money, which in turn will help me make money.”
“Same for me,” said Adam. “At first, I thought the job was just selling radio ads and I didn’t know too much about digital, events and the other things we have to sell. I’m excited to learn about all of those things and then get out and inform businesses about how all the products can help them grow.”
When their first day was complete they had each met close to 100 new co-workers, filled out a giant stack of paperwork, received usernames and passwords to several different new systems, started online training modules and even had their first celebrity encounter when six-time Pro Bowler Neil Smith came into my office to fill out some paperwork. I was curious to know after all of that, what they told people about their first day.
“I went home and told my wife my brain was absolutely fried,” Adam said. “I was really excited and was just trying to process all of the information that had come my way.”
Nick told me he called his mom and said he told her, “I am so stoked to be in an industry I have really wanted to be a part of, doing something I know I’m going to be good at. I really can see myself working for this company for a really long time.”
I was just glad I had remembered to tell them both how to get in the building!
So how will Nick and Adam do in their new careers? I’ll plan to update you every so often on their progress and you’ll be able to follow along as they set out on their new journey.
On the 15th and final episode of Season 2, FOX Sports Radio and Television personality Colin Cowherd spends 33 minutes offering his insights on his career, FS1’s progress, the ESPN layoffs, sexual harassment in the workplace, comparisons to Skip Bayless, creating and maintaining chemistry, how to determine whether to continue with or eliminate a popular benchmark and much more.
In this week’s 5 in 5, Jason offers his views on the ESPN layoffs, the reactions from Mike Francesa and Michael Kay on the benching of Eli Manning, sexual harassment in the workplace, the eMarketer.com social media survey and holiday program scheduling.
TOPIC DISCUSSED WITH COLIN:
What still excites and motivates him to talk sports for a living?
Whether or not he reached a fork in the road earlier in his career
How he grades the past 2 years of working for FOX Sports
ESPN’s layoffs and what they say about the state of the media business
Where he thinks people will consume content most in the next 5 years
Reaction to Mike Francesa’s views on radio and digital
How to conduct yourself behind the scenes and avoid harassment issues
The state of his relationship with FS1 and confidence in the network’s vision
The Vegas line on working again in the future for ESPN
Who he’s been influenced by and learned from in the media business
The key to developing and maintaining outstanding chemistry
Determining if something on his show still has appeal or has run its course
When the Ron Burgundy imitations might return
If he believes he and Skip Bayless are similar or different as personalities
The way he develops analogies and introduces them into his show
How much longer he hopes to remain active in sports media
Why he believes the show is better now on FOX than it was at ESPN
Thirty years in any business is a long time. In radio, it’s an eternity. For Mike Francesa, it’s never been about surviving corporate changes, the loss of a radio partner, increased competition or the rise of technology. It’s been about competing and being the very best. Anything less than “numbah 1” wasn’t good enough.
But despite three decades of ratings and revenue success, Mike will find himself in unfamiliar territory on December 16, 2017. That Saturday morning, the king of New York sports talk will wake up for the first time since 1987 as a man without a microphone and radio station.
It’s no secret that Francesa and WFAN are going in separate directions. Chris Carlin, Bart Scott and Maggie Gray have been tabbed by program director Mark Chernoff to lead the station forward in PM drive, a move which is under heavy scrutiny. Fans were hopeful after Craig Carton’s exit in September that WFAN executives and their longtime franchise player would find a way to extend their relationship but unfortunately nothing changed.
Whether you’ve been a Francesa fan or critic, his success and impact on the radio industry can’t be denied. His rise with Chris “Mad Dog” Russo to the top of the ratings in New York breathed life into the sports radio business during a very important time in the format’s infancy. Had Mike and the Mad Dog not produced results, who knows where the format would be today.
But it didn’t stop there. Russo left the show in August 2008, and rather than adding a partner, Francesa began performing as a solo act, delivering the same type of impact that he had for the prior 19 years. That success added to his legacy, and cemented his position on the Mount Rushmore of sports radio talk show hosts.
For most personalities, that would be enough, but Mike hasn’t reached the end of his broadcasting journey. In fact, he remains interested in continuing to work. Fans will have to live without hearing him during the upcoming winter months but come April, Francesa says he plans to sink his teeth into something new. What that will be and how often he’ll do it remains to be seen, but whatever he chooses, it’ll be on a different outlet than the one New York sports radio listeners have been accustomed to finding him on for the past three decades.
I had the pleasure of spending time with Mike in his office last week to reflect on his run with WFAN and examine a number of different areas of the radio business. As usual, he was candid and provided plenty to think about, two of the biggest reasons why he’s been one of the most successful sports radio personalities in our format’s history.
JB: How much have you allowed yourself to reflect and appreciate the process leading up to your final show?
MF: I’ve absolutely thought a lot about the show and the different moments that have happened throughout the years. Everywhere we’ve gone this year the crowd’s have been overwhelming. I thank the fans enormously. We’ve had the most loyal and consistent fans the past thirty years that you could ever even hope for and I’m very appreciative of that.
Leading up to the final show, in our business you spend a lot of time planning ahead. Right now I’d normally be looking to the Super Bowl, Spring Training and even April. You’re always trying to work 4-6 in advance but I haven’t done any of that so that’s very different from the normal course of business. There’s a finality to every part of it. As I’ve gone past each month, you check them off and realize there’s never going to be another September or October doing shows so from that standpoint I’ve tried to appreciate it and be a little more reflective.
JB: What are you going to miss most and least about the job?
MF: The least part of the job that I’ll miss is the traffic. It’s impossible getting around the city and it wears you down. It’s a couple of hours a day. Just brutal.
What I’ll miss most is the idea that there’s a big happening and I know the city is waiting for me at one o’clock. That’s been my life for thirty years. To know the city isn’t waiting for me anymore will be a big adjustment.
JB: Who would you put at the top of the list among your favorite guests from over the years?
MF: There were some guests who performed above the call of duty on the show. George Young was one. David Stern was another. They not only brought a great performance level but they brought this curmudgeonly playful attitude that made them great guests.
The one that got away was Joe DiMaggio. Dog and I tried very hard to get him on the show. We even got Ted Williams to ask for us. We just couldn’t get him.
JB: Which memorable moments from the show stand out the most?
MF: The day Dog left was an emotional one. Cherny fought me the whole day. I said I’m putting him on. He said no you’re not. I said he has a right to say goodbye. Mark said no he doesn’t. He’s out.
Back then they used to just take you off the air. They’ve learned their lesson and changed that stance thankfully. Look at me, right now I couldn’t be more of a lame duck. There’s a new company I’m not part of. There’s a new show already named. I feel like the President after election day. You have people just waiting to push you out of the office.
JB: When did you know the show was a success and had influence?
MF: I knew the show was a success when we got the first book. We were third after they had been eleventh. The second book we were first and life changed. They ripped up our contracts, we were the toast of the town, there were headline stories, and we were big stars.
The first time though that I knew it had impact was when the Giants called and asked me to MC a dinner they were doing. That was about six months into the show. I was like “Whoa, the Giants are calling me?”
JB: So with all of these great moments and tremendous success, why leave?
MF: They made me a bunch of offers and asked what it would take for me to stay for a year, but we never really even seriously negotiated. I told them I really wasn’t into it. I didn’t want to stay just for money. I always felt you don’t stay in things just for money.
It was very important to me to leave on top. I didn’t want to be one of these guys who used to be number 1 and now you’re number 28. I couldn’t live that way. I wouldn’t be comfortable with that.
I’ve driven these guys exceedingly hard to finish 1st in the final book. With a few weeks to go we’re first but it looks like it’s going to be a dogfight with one of the music stations. That’s what’s important to me and that’s what we’ve been striving for. I wanted to go out the same way that I came in, on top.
JB: How much of this has to do with Entercom taking over and working for a new company and possibly facing different economic realities?
MF: Some of the reports that have been out there have been so wrong. I had dinner with David Field. He wasn’t able to talk about certain things because the merger was pending but this notion that the company was trying to cut my salary is not true. They offered me the same amount that I’m making right now.
This wasn’t about money. I just thought a few years ago that it was the right time and nothing made me think it wasn’t the right time to go. I still believe it’s the right time to move on.
It had nothing to do with Entercom. Whether I agree with what they’re going to do going forward or not doesn’t matter. I’m not even going to know what they’re like for six months. They were not an issue at all.
JB: How close did you come to reversing your stance following Craig’s exit?
MF: After the Carton thing happened I said “if you really need me to stay then we’ll discuss it.” We had one meeting about it and they said they did not think it was a big deal and didn’t think it would change things at all. I said OK and that was it.
JB: So if that is indeed the case and this is it for you with WFAN, what is next?
MF: I want to produce content and do some new things. I don’t want to not work at all. I will not do Monday thru Friday. I’ve been offered book deals and rejected them because I don’t think I’m an author. I still have a lot to say and there are many ways to do that and I’m looking at some of them.
The way it’s set up I can’t do local radio, network radio, satellite radio or podcasts until April 1st. TV’s not in there but I’m not sure how much of that I want to do, especially the conventional way. I’m much more into digital and the new wave of TV, the Amazon way, the Netflix way and the different ways they distribute video content.
JB: This radio station has endured losing high profile stars like Russo, Imus, Carton, Sid, etc. Your departure will soon be another major test for them. How has WFAN been able to continue thriving after losing such key people?
MF: We built something strong that had legs. It will endure past me. The Fan has been built on a strong enough foundation that it will be here fifty to a hundred years from now. It’s become part of this town and culture. It’s an iconic brand.
They still have to make the right decisions. If they don’t, it can lose its way. We’ve seen that happen in other cities. It’s not The Fan’s birthright to be on top and it is tough to replace a very successful show but it does happen. Imus got replaced.
Mark always has an idea of what he wants to do. This was not done without any thought process. How it’s going to do? We’ll see.
JB: The news of the new afternoon show hasn’t been well received so far, although they haven’t even done a show yet. Your former partner in particular was pretty upset. What’s your reaction to the station going in this direction?
MF: First, Dog can talk about the individuals all he wants. He’s earned that right. But from my position, the less said the better. I don’t have much to go on. None of these people have ever had any real radio presence on this station. I’ve never heard Maggie or Scott do a show and I haven’t even really heard Continent do a show so what they’ll be as a trio, nobody has any idea, and as individual performers, I don’t really know.
JB: Let’s be fair too, whoever goes in after you, is going to be under intense scrutiny the second they step into the studio. How long of a leash do you think a new show deserves?
MF: You have to give the new show at least six months. The first book will not be a great indicator of anything. Plus it’s a Winter ratings book. Take a look at the end of the Spring book and see where you are. That’d be a fair indicator.
JB: I recognize you’re not in the advice business, but having done this successfully for as long as you have, what advice can you pass along to the new show?
MF: They need to be themselves. You can’t manufacture something that’s not there. Chemistry is something they have to develop. They have to figure out their roles and ones that each of them are comfortable with and then play to their individual strengths. That’s their mission. What they have to realize is that it’s never going to be a case where each is responsible for a third of the show. That’s silly. It just has to have a feel.
JB: The competition in afternoons has been stronger too. How do you think that affects the patience with the new program?
MF: For the longest time, we were the only show the other station went head to head with locally. That was done by design because they knew they’d get destroyed if they put in a national show against me. Network shows only have a certain level they can reach.
There’s going to be some back and forth. The other station feels they’re in a different position now. They’ve never won. They’ve always lost. They’ve been beaten up for so many years that they think this is an opening but they felt the same way when Dog left and that door didn’t open for them. We’ll see this time if they are more vulnerable.
JB: Mark Chernoff is responsible for making the move. The two of you guys have had a lengthy working relationship. How would you describe it?
MF: We’ve had the typical talent to program director relationship. There are days he will try to push me to things I don’t want to do. He might be right or wrong. We’ve had our fights and arguments but we’ve also gotten along really well.
Mark’s greatest strength for me is that he’s a genius on understanding the ratings and how they work. There are certain things you can do and I’m sure he’ll teach the new show and they really need to listen and understand.
A lot of talent won’t take the time to learn this part of it. Some pay no attention to ratings. You can like it or not but if you don’t understand it you’re out of your mind and short selling yourself. That’s how you’re going to be paid.
JB: How surprised are you by the lack of interest from some personalities towards learning and understanding the ratings game to help their longevity and earning power?
MF: Our business is subjective. You’re not going to please everybody all the time. Your job though is to produce ratings and revenue. It’s the only thing that will sell the day. To not understand how they work and what tricks you can do in your show to have success is very important. There are some things that you don’t want to do in a half hour that’ll cost you. When you want to break and stuff like that. Some people think “all I have to do is promote ahead and I’m fine.” No No No. There’s a lot more to it than that.
I remember Mel Karmazin had this meeting years ago and turned to one guy and asked “what’s your job.” This executive went into this long ten minute answer full of a bunch of baloney and Mel turned to him and said “let me put it simple – you’re job is ratings and revenue – and don’t forget it on your next job.” He fired him.
JB: Sticking with the subject of ratings, you’ve said before that you feel the sports radio industry is going after the wrong demographic. You believe Men 35-64, not Men 25-54, should be the target. How come?
MF: Trying to get this business to change something, forget it. They are so slow it’s glacier speed. This is such a no-brainer. We are so much healthier and living longer. Our life expectancy is now into the mid 80’s. The people 55 to 70 have incredible earning power and more money than anybody in this country. They have the life to spend it and the time to spend it.
The way the world works with student debt and the economy, kids aren’t even leaving home until they’re 30 years old. They can’t afford anything at 25 years old. If they’re buying their first home it’s usually on a shoestring budget and they’re getting help from their parents. You think that’s your market? They’re not your market. Your market is the baby boomer and people 40-65 who have all the earning and spending power in this country. To turn away a good part of that audience is insane.
JB: How do we fix that?
MF: The entire ad buying community has to grow. Using GQ as an example, I read them and look at their ads for clothes and they’re all geared towards the twenty year old’s. I buy more clothes than they do. They don’t target guys like me and they’re out of their minds. We’re the ones who go out to fancy dinners, buy expensive suits and jewelry and drive a mercedes. The guy 20 or 30 isn’t doing that. He’s two hundred thousand dollars in debt and lucky if he even has a car.
If I was in the advertising business I’d be saying “gear everything towards the guys 40-65 or 70, they have all the money and time.”
JB: One of the biggest challenges for radio has been the emergence of digital. How do you think that’s impacted the industry?
MF: The radio business has got to find itself and decide what it wants to be. The audience has not gone anywhere. What our industry has done, is they think it’s gone somewhere because they’ve been scared off by technology and they’ve chased digital to the detriment of their regular radio audience.
I’ve fought everybody in the business over this. Radio is live and local and the business is still there. The digital money has never been there. No one knows how to monetize it and it’s so new that you’re not even sure what you’re selling as the business changes from Facebook to Twitter to Instagram to Snapchat.
What radio does know how to do, this commercial sells that car. This commercial sells that restaurant or store. That has never changed but they’ve gotten away from it and radio has to get back to its roots or they’re going to wish they did.
JB: But social media has become an important way for people to engage, find content and connect to brands. Podcasts are another platform gaining in popularity. Don’t those matter?
MF: I understand the draw of social media. The chasing of content is good. But the radio companies, and to a lesser extent, the television companies, still don’t have a handle on it.
I’ve railed against podcasts because nobody makes any money on them. When did we decide everybody gets a radio show? We didn’t. But everybody now has a podcast.
Radio has chased empty dollars. There’s nobody at the door saying you can’t enter. So everybody enters. Unless you go into a podcast with a radio brand and audience, you’re not going to make money or create a big enough audience to support what you’re doing.
JB: When you look at where the industry is today compared to where it was before, do you think it’s still an attractive profession?
MF: The job of talk show host has become a great job. When I started the talk show host was not a big deal. The columnist was the big guy and he looked down at the radio host. We turned it into a profession. Kids are now going to school to pursue becoming a talk show host. In most cities in this country, the talk show host is now the number one difference maker or tastemaker in that town. To me, that transition is one I’m most proud of. Mike and the Mad Dog gave the job enormous credibility and attention.
JB: You mentioned Mike and the Mad Dog, knowing that this was going to be the final run for you with WFAN, was that why you gave the green light on doing the 30 for 30 episode?
MF: The Mike and the Mad Dog 30 for 30 I did for two reasons. The first was my kids asked me, and the second was because Dog asked me. My first inclination was not to do it because I’ve had a bad relationship with ESPN.
When they did the twenty fifth anniversary piece, I was the only one who wouldn’t do it. Even Imus did it. Bill Simmons said “I can’t do this unless you do it” and I said “I’m not doing it for ESPN.” He still keeps busting my chops about it because I did the 30 for 30 but didn’t do his thing.
Plus the guys who did it I broke into the business with. Danny Forer and I worked together in 1983, and Ted Shaker was one of my first bosses at CBS. He ran the NFL Today. I’ve known those guys for thirty years so that also made it a lot easier.
JB: Watching that film reminded me of how important it is to create something unique. Now, the world is cluttered with content choices and cutting thru is harder than ever. What do you tell a young person who’s starting out today and contemplating a path as a talk show host?
MF: It’s easier to get on the air now than it ever was but it’s also harder to break thru because there’s so much noise and clutter. You have to have an opinion and a presence that cuts thru. It has to be real and yours. That’s the key to success.
JB: In following your career, maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall you ever being suspended for something you’ve said on the air. Some personalities today feel they’ve got to deliver opinions that generate headlines and rattle a few cages to stand out. By doing so though they can risk losing their job. What are your thoughts on the need to push the envelope to cut thru the noise?
MF: I’ve never been suspended or reprimanded and I’ve never had to apologize. I attack people from a sports standpoint. I don’t attack people personally. I never bring their families, girlfriends or wives into it. I don’t do T & A or guy talk. I don’t believe in that.
I’ve always looked at my show as being a sports argument. It can be fierce and take the paint off the walls, but it’s going to be based on something that happened on the field or something that has an impact on the team.
The guys who want to push it and get involved, stay out of a tragedy. A perfect example was the Roy Halladay situation and how it was discussed by the guys in Boston. That’s not your business. You weren’t there. You don’t know anything about it. He has a wife and kids and cities that love him. Maybe he was reckless with his plane, but where do you get off thinking that’s your business? That’s a winless situation. There are times you have to stay out of stuff. You don’t belong in other people’s pain.
JB: Another area of the business which has changed has been the increase of political commentary in sports radio programming. Do you believe we’re going to see more of this going forward?
MF: I think the political explosion in sports talk has more to do with this President. He’s so polarizing because he touches so many parts of culture. He’s a TV star first. Without his show he never becomes President. We knew him in New York but they got to know him in living rooms across the country because of The Apprentice.
People who voted for Trump saw him as success. He brands himself that way. He breaks across certain barriers because some people see him as having the life they wish they had. He has the pretty girl, the jet, the money, the fame.
We are so polarized now that everybody sticks to their own opinion and nobody wants to have a political conversation. That’s made things much more agitated and tougher to get any consensus. There’s no middle anymore. What we’ve seen leak into all of these shows is really the Trump factor more than a political factor.
JB: Let’s talk about your own methods to hosting a successful program. How do you know when you’ve had a good or bad show?
MF: Any good show is fast moving. Anything that drags is bad. There’s a big difference between the two. Show’s can change on a dime. You have to realize ahead of time and during the show when it’s time to reverse the topic. You have to have an instinctive feel for what is and isn’t working as a performer. If that is not inside you, you’re going to have a hard time being special at this.
You know when you’re giving your audience a reason to stray. You won’t hear my show go into seven topics in seven minutes. I focus my shows because I don’t think you can move your audience all over the place.
It’s even more of a challenge when I’m doing a live show. I don’t ever give the audience a chance to chat among themselves. You never want to give the audience dead time during a live performance. That’s deadly. They’ll start talking to each other and then you’ll never get them back. If you put an intermission in there, you’re out of your mind. The show should never stop moving.
JB: I’ve noticed over the years that you haven’t placed a strong emphasis on using production, sound or teasing. How come?
MF: The show is me. Some people need a lot of sound and bells and whistles. I don’t use any of it. I don’t even use music. You have to understand though what you have to do. That means handling all the transitions and segues. It’s harder to do a show this way because it’s a lot more work but it’s something I believe in.
JB: As we look to the future, what would an induction into the radio hall of fame mean to you?
MF: The radio hall of fame would mean a lot. They put us in a voting category and we thought we had a chance but we finished second to Michael Savage. Credit to him. He earned it fair and square. I think Mike and the Mad Dog deserve to be in there and if we go in together that would be just fine with me.
JB: Along those lines, 10-15 years from now when people look back on your run at WFAN, what do you want them to remember?
MF: I hope that they remember that during the time I was here I dominated. That’s what I set out to do and I did that.
JB: What do you have planned for the final show?
MF: The day before the final show I’ll be broadcasting live from the Museum of Broadcasting with a number of guests, family, WFAN people, a small audience of about 200 people. We’re not selling tickets to that. We’ll just be giving some away.
The final show will just be me. I’m not letting anybody in the studio. I’m not doing any media that day. I even told my family to stay home and listen to it. I’m coming in, doing a show, talking to the audience, no guests, and then I’m getting up at 6:30 and leaving.
The last 10-15 minutes will probably just be me. I’m not going to script it. I’ll have thought about it obviously but I’m just going to let it go and then that’ll be it.
Lance Zierlein and John Granato enjoyed a lot of radio success together before going in separate directions. But in the crazy world of sports talk radio, things have a way of coming full circle. Now after years apart and working at different companies, the two men are joining forces once again to try and reclaim their position as one of Houston’s best sports talk shows.
The talented duo will take over morning drive on ESPN 97.5 FM from 7a-9a starting Monday November 27th. The two men will remain on the air together from 9a-9:30a with midday host Raheel Ramzanali. Granato stays on with Ramzanali each day until 11am.
In taking over the morning slot, Zierlein and Granato gain the majority of hours which were previously occupied by ESPN Radio’s Mike and Mike. Houston had been a market where ESPN Radio had performed well in mornings. The change leaves ESPN Radio’s new show with Trey Wingo and Mike Golic with two less hours of air time each day in one of its top rated markets.
“Reuniting John and Lance is a homerun”, said David Gow, CEO of Gow Media. “For years, people have asked me when those two could do a show again, and now the stars have aligned.”
Recognized by the Houston Press for Best Radio Show and as Best Radio Host, and a longtime analyst for NFL.com, Zierlein began his career at Sports Radio 610 before joining Granato for the launch of Gow Media’s 1560 AM in 2007. Zierlein had been a mainstay in mornings on SportsTalk 790 but elected to exit the radio station this past June, paving the way for Josh Innes to takeover the timeslot.
“I’m really excited about getting back together with John Granato and being part of what David Gow is building with 97.5, Sports Map and Culture Map,” says Zierlein. “John and I had the most talked-about show in Houston because of our chemistry and the fun we had on the air. That’s missing from a lot of the radio shows out there today. It’s time to bring that back in the mornings.”
Granato, who also enjoyed a successful ten-year run at 610, is equally excited about the benefits the new show will provide to his personal and professional relationship with Zierlein.
“It’s huge for me to have Lance back” added Granato. “Not only is he a great friend but I owe a lot to him in my career. And he’s one of the funniest guys I know. A lot of people woke up to us over the years. Hopefully they’ll be back and we’ll get a bunch of new people as well. I’m really excited about being in morning drive again (Except that whole waking up early thing).”
Reflecting on a busy 2017, David Gow believes bigger things are in store for his Houston-based multi-platform media company. “Lance caps off a great year for us”, observes Gow. “With Ken Hoffman, Charlie Pallilo and now Lance Zierlein joining our already-strong roster of talent, we believe we’ve built the ‘dream team’ that Houston’s sports fans are looking for”.
The 14th episode of Season 2 includes a twenty five minute in-studio chat with 670 The Score program director Mitch Rosen. Mitch offers insights into his programming philosophies, explains how he got started, looks ahead to the future of the business and its impact in Chicago, and shares his views on a number of sports radio industry topics.
Jason also dives into this week’s 5 in 5 by offering his perspective on Entercom’s aggressive push for play by play rights, John Skipper’s contract extension, Scott Van Pelt’s issue with ESPN criticisms, the new ESPN Radio lineup and the immediate backlash towards WFAN for installing Chris Carlin, Bart Scott and Maggie Gray as Mike Francesa’s replacements.
SUBJECTS DISCUSSED WITH MITCH:
Becoming interested in sports radio and how he got started
Appreciating the old school ways of the radio business
Moving up from WMVP to being an agent to running 670 The Score
The best and toughest parts of overseeing a heritage sports brand
How to navigate the process when a new market manager comes in
Analyzing the ratings and the excitement that comes with it
The growth in Chicago’s sports radio market share
Whether or not ESPN’s national image has had any local impact
Working thru the process of replacing a high profile iconic personality
How important it is to have familiarity with talent when big gigs open
The value of diversity in sports radio and the way it has improved
What he looks for in on-air talent when openings pop up
Demo tapes and what should be on them to gain his attention
The future of phone calls in sports radio
How to continue reaching talent over a long period of time
Quick Hits: PD advice, One move back, Industry growth, Best Chicago Sports moment
Entercom CEO David Field has been on quite the roll lately. After officially taking over CBS Radio last week and announcing a few immediate changes and additions, Field continued the momentum by announcing Tuesday morning on Angelo Cataldi’s show that Entercom has struck a new seven-year extension with the Philadelphia Eagles to remain on Sports Radio 94 WIP.
Eagles president Don Smolenski and Entercom’s President of Sports Mike Dee joined Field in studio for the announcement.
As part of the agreement, the voice of the Eagles, Merrill Reese, color commentator Mike Quick and sideline reporter Howard Eskin will continue in their current roles on Eagles broadcasts.
“There’s tremendous history between the Eagles and this radio station and Philadelphia,” said Smolenski. “This takes the relationship to more than 3 years, which runs the entire gamut of Jeffrey Lurie’s ownership.”
On the day that Entercom Communications takes over operations of CBS Radio stations all across the country, they saved one special announcement for baseball fans in Minneapolis. The company revealed that they have agreed to a fully-integrated radio partnership with The Minnesota Twins, returning the team to its original radio broadcast home, WCCO-AM 830. The newstalk station aired the club’s games for its first 46 seasons through 2006.
WCCO will broadcast all Twins regular and postseason games and cover its metropolitan area Spring Training, starting with the 2018 season. Entercom Minnesota stations 104.1 Jack-FM and BUZ’N 102.9 will also cover Twins’ players, coaches and broadcasters year-round.
“We are thrilled to welcome the Twins back to their iconic home on WCCO,” said Mike Dee, Entercom’s President of Sports. “As the unrivaled leader in local audio sports rights across the nation, Entercom is committed to growing our play-by-play roster where it makes smart, strategic sense. Clearly the Twins are a blue chip franchise on the rise. As a newcomer to the Minneapolis-Saint Paul market, we are especially grateful to the Pohlad family and Dave St. Peter for their confidence in us. With the addition of the Twins, we are proud to be the flagship home for 45 professional teams across the four major sports, including 14 in Major League Baseball.”
“The Minnesota Twins are ecstatic to be in partnership with Entercom and eager to play a role in helping the company implement a new vision for their radio properties across our marketplace,” Twins President and CEO Dave St. Peter said. “The Twins are beyond thrilled to have this opportunity to return our radio broadcasts to WCCO-AM 830. Twins baseball on WCCO Radio was an Upper Midwest tradition for more than four decades. We look forward to building on that tradition with a new era of Twins baseball starting in 2018.”
As part of the partnership, all Entercom properties will feature comprehensive Twins coverage including special promotions and game day shows, spring training from Fort Myers, FL. and at community events across Minnesota. The Twins will continue to produce the game broadcasts including 30-minute pre-game and post-game shows.
ESPN Radio has announced upcoming lineup changes which will go into effect January 2, 2018. The news confirms the departure of Bomani Jones and Jalen & Jacoby from terrestrial radio to create exclusive digital content. Israel Gutierrez is also replaced alongside Sarah Spain by Jason Fitz.
The biggest news though involves an expanded presence for Stephen A. Smith who takes over weekdays from 1p-3p ET. The move results in Ryen Russillo shifting to afternoons where he’ll now team with up with Will Cain. Smith’s program had been airing locally during those hours in New York and Los Angeles. Industry insiders expected Smith to be a featured attraction on the network last January when he departed from SiriusXM’s Mad Dog Radio but network officials decided to wait on making the move.
All ESPN Radio shows will be available live and as podcasts via ESPNRadio.com and the ESPN app, as well as on SiriusXM Channel 80 (live only), Apple Music, TuneIn and Slacker Radio.
“Top to bottom, ESPN Radio will have the strongest, most experienced and most thought-provoking lineup in sports talk radio,” said Traug Keller, senior vice president, ESPN Audio. “Diverse voices with a variety of perspectives will provide listeners with compelling content all day long.”
Additionally, ESPN will launch a new podcast with Bomani Jones. New episodes will be available 2-3 times per week with each episode expected to run between 45-60 minutes. Jalen Rose and David Jacoby will also provide their original Jalen & Jacoby podcast starting January 2nd. The podcast will be produced 4-5 times per week with a focus on sports and pop culture. Katie Nolan has also been summoned to create a weekly digital program with a start date set for January 10th.
“Podcasting is changing how audio is consumed, since the listener is more in charge than ever, and offering dynamic content is a smart way to grow our business and serve our listeners,” said Keller. “Adding original podcasts with Bomani, David, Jalen and Katie is a key component of the overall strategy to grow our Audio on Demand business,” Keller added. “These talented voices resonate across platforms and especially with consumers in the digital space.”
In 1998, I was just learning how the radio business worked. I was at a small station that powered down at night, making $200 per week, and had no idea if this industry was one I wanted to build a career in. My son Dylan hadn’t even been born yet and I had a full head of hair, although the early signs of scalp evacuations had just begun.
During that same year, Bill Clinton became president. John Elway won his first Super Bowl, defeating Brett Favre’s Green Bay Packers 31-24. The New York Yankees won the World Series, sweeping the San Diego Padres, and Michael Jordan was knocking down a jumper after moving Byron Russell aside to lead the Chicago Bulls to another NBA Title at the expense of the Utah Jazz.
Before Mike and Mike were born, there was Bruno and Golic. Tony Bruno and Mike Golic owned the morning drive real estate on ESPN Radio from 1995 to 1998 and had Tony not left, who knows if the past 19 years of sports radio and television history would’ve gone the way they have. But so much in life is about timing, and the way this story has evolved had everything to do with it.
When ESPN began looking for a replacement for Bruno, the idea of Greenberg becoming the permanent host wasn’t high on anyone’s list. It wasn’t even a job that was attractive to Greenberg. He considered the opportunity because he thought it would help him earn more recognition from network executives, paving the way to a higher profile position on television. In fact, Greeny insisted on remaining involved as a host on SportsCenter, doing more than 100 shows per year for 11 years.
At that time, Greenberg was seen as a SportsCenter anchor with a future in television. Golic had little familiarity with him. Complicating things further was the perception of the radio network. Clearance of ESPN Radio’s programming was minimal, and although the network’s lineup featured some great hosts such as Golic, Dan Patrick, Tony Kornheiser and Chuck Wilson, it hadn’t yet become the national powerhouse that it is today.
But then something happened.
Five minutes before the first audition together in 1998, the two men began chatting. Greenberg began busting Golic’s balls over his weight, and being the self-deprecating guy that he is, Golic had fun with it. Greeny has told the story numerous times of how he referred to the pair as a number 10, Golic being the burger and himself being the bun, and their immediate chemistry, humor and differences opened the door for the two to become a permanent team. Even Golic’s wife took notice during the audition process, telling her husband “he’s the one.”
ESPN worked the two Mikes together for a number of additional shows and began talking to Greeny about becoming part of the mix in 99, finally making them the network’s morning show in 2000. They haven’t looked back since. Mike and Mike became the national sports radio soundtrack for hundreds of stations across the country and along the way earned an induction into the NAB Radio Hall of Fame in 2016.
If ever there was a slogan that perfectly described a show, it was the one that Mike and Mike embraced. “What makes them different, makes them great” was how the network described the program, and everything from their on-air content execution to their radio promos, TV commercials and appearances on TV shows, sitcoms and movies, all captured that branding. They were radio’s version of Felix and Oscar (The Odd Couple), a louder and heavier alpha-male former jock sharing the same space with the thin, bright, dorky, metrosexual sports fan turned broadcaster. Individually and collectively they had a firm grasp on who they were and understood what made their combination appealing to the audience.
It was Greeny and Golic’s success that sparked stations across the country to further explore on-air combinations featuring broadcasters and athletes. The growth of their program on television led to the network gaining confidence to introduce additional radio-television simulcasts. Plus those who made an impact on the show behind the scenes, often found themselves advancing in their careers. As a result of working with Mike and Mike, Pete Gianesini, Justin Craig, Scott Shapiro, Ray Necci, Jason Romano, Amanda Gifford and Liam Chapman all moved up the ladder. A number of others in our industry have gained bigger roles too after working with Greeny and Golic.
I was fortunate to be at the network between 2004-2006 when the show started to gain traction and a bigger focus from network executives. Bruce Gilbert was a big proponent of Mike and Mike. He believed in the pair being given stronger exposure. Given that they were on the air during morning drive, it made a lot of sense. Prior to that, the network had placed a bigger emphasis on middays with Dan Patrick and Tony Kornheiser.
Although they did a lot right, Mike and Mike weren’t without faults. Earlier in his career Greeny would shy away from accepting guests on the show who he had been previously critical of. The Mike and Mike wedding in 2006 was an event which left many in the building confused by, even though some executives liked how it produced additional publicity for the show outside of sports circles. Golic had his share of times on the air where it was clear he wasn’t dialed in on what happened the night before, and the show’s conservative approach in delivering opinions and confronting guests drew frustration from fellow media members and led executives to constantly tinker with the show in search of more opinion, even installing rotating third hosts at one point.
When you add it all up, the highs certainly outweigh the lows. If you execute a show under the nation’s eyes and ears for over 19 years, you’re going to have some ups and downs. Nonetheless, there was no better national program in recognizing which topics mattered most to sports fans each morning. If a major story broke, you knew Mike and Mike would be on it. When newsmakers needed to be heard from, Mike and Mike had them. You could drive your kid to school, watch the show with your wife or girlfriend, or listen at your office desk and know that it’d be topical, informative, entertaining and comfortable. More importantly, you knew they’d be themselves.
The criticisms that have been directed at Greeny and Golic throughout the years have often been due to not relating to their personalities or style. That’s understandable. No show strikes a perfect chord with every listener. But as people, Mike and Mike were comfortable in their skin and they executed that way on the air. They were proud of the fact that they presented a sports show which a family could listen to. They were OK with not diving into discussions that divided a room. They accepted that some people wouldn’t tune them in because they weren’t edgy enough or willing to embrace men’s room humor.
Some shows relied on aggressive language, colorful humor and hot takes to make their points. Mike and Mike took a different path. They trusted their smarts, chemistry, love for sports and the best sports guest list in morning drive to help them win. They weren’t afraid to have fun either. Whether it meant Greeny milking a cow, professing his love for Chad Pennington in song or dressing up as Justin Bieber, Mike Golic being waxed, recreating the Kim Kardashian nude photo or stuffing his face with donuts, bits being created with Joaquin (Curt Kaplan), Liam’s mom and Frank Caliendo, or the two men joining forces to execute longtime benchmarks like the “Just Shut Up” award and “Stone Cold Lead Pipe Locks”, Greeny and Golic delivered a good blend of laughter and learning in a way that made sense to them.
That may not sit well with everyone, especially some local media members, but what I appreciate about it is that they understood who they were, what they wanted to be, and why it was important to stick to their principles. Authenticity is vital to any show’s success and Mike and Mike found their own way to succeed for 19 years. Their run together produced healthy ratings for a number of markets including Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Pittsburgh, Columbus, St. Louis and New York. I’m likely leaving out a few others but you get the point.
Too many times in our business we look to find faults in individuals and shows rather than understanding and appreciating their styles and strengths. Mike and Mike became the morning sports page for fans across the nation on a network as large as ESPN for close to two decades because they were dependable, topical, informative and entertaining. Their chemistry was off the charts but above all else, they were genuine and honest.
On this final day of their show, I thought it was worth highlighting how they left us with one final memory and lesson.
If you follow Mike and Mike on Twitter, you’ve likely noticed over the past month how Greeny, Golic, and their production staff have engaged with listeners via tweets and videos. Huge credit to Megan Judge on leading the charge to implement the way these guys have closed out their show on social media. The Mike and Mike twitter account has over 1.6 million followers and responding to the flood of activity they’ve been hit with must’ve been daunting yet they’ve made it a point to be consistent. They’ve used the hashtag #MMSayThanks and have gone above and beyond to thank listeners individually for their support, many times personalizing their commentaries.
By utilizing this strategy, Mike and Mike showed their audience that they pay attention and appreciate their support. Since introducing the approach to wind down the show, a number of high profile sports figures and organizations have gotten involved, passing along tweets, photos and videos thanking the duo for an amazing run. That type of publicity is invaluable.
I’ve been critical of our industry in the past for its lack of social engagement. Too often I see brands push content at people yet fail to acknowledge or respond when listeners try to interact. However, this was a great example of acknowledging, respecting, and personally connecting with the audience. Each time Mike and Mike and their crew weighed in on social media, their fans told others about it. Listeners and viewers were made to feel special which in return gives those fans reason to root for both men’s future success.
As I wrap this up, I want to thank Greeny and Golic for being great peers, partners, and professionals. They made the morning commute for millions of people a lot less stressful and more enjoyable, and their place in the history of the sports media business can never be taken away. Everything we do in sports broadcasting circles back to connecting with an audience. Little differences help make us unique and worth spending time with. For Mike and Mike, it was enough to earn them nineteen wonderful years on the air, a hall of fame honor, and a lifetime of memories, connections and friendships. If that isn’t the definition of success, then I’m not really sure what is.
Over the past few months 105.7 The Fan in Baltimore looked far and wide for a programmer to lead the station forward. As it turned out, the answer was right just down the road.
Baltimore’s leading sports radio brand has hired Chuck Sapienza to serve as the station’s new Director of Sports Programming. He starts in his new role on December 1st.
Sapienza has spent the past 30 years managing sports and music stations. He began his career at WPGC in DC in 1986. Since then, he has worked exclusively in Baltimore and Washington with stations such as WBAL, 98 Rock, B104, WASH-FM, WMZQ and Mix 107.3.
His transition into sports radio began at ESPN 980 in DC in 2005. He served as the Executive Producer of the John Thompson Show before earning promotions to Executive Producer, Program Director and VP/Programming for Red Zebra Broadcasting.
Under his watch, ESPN 980 delivered its highest ratings in the station’s 25 year history in 2013. Unfortunately the radio station’s challenges with Washington Redskins ownership (owners of the radio station) led to his exit in 2015.
After leaving Red Zebra, Sapienza spent two years as the Executive Producer of the United States Naval Academy Football Radio Network.
