If you want to get technical, it is 287 miles from the front door of Radio One’s headquarters on Julian Price Place in Charlotte to the company’s headquarters on Emerywood Parkway in Richmond. Marsha Landess doesn’t have the luxury of distance though. Neither cluster can ever be too far from her mind.
Landess leads both buildings as Radio One’s Regional Vice President. Her position in this industry is less unique than it used to be. A lot of companies ask market managers to add leadership of a second building to their duties. In order to do it successfully, she says you have to know which values are universal and which situations require their own unique solutions.
In the latest piece in our Meet the Market Managers series presented by Point-to-Point Marketing, Marsha Landess talks about how running a gospel station prepared her to run a sports station, what a revenue culture is, and why programming and sales candidates have to know and be ready to do more than ever before to be hireable.
Demetri Ravanos: I guess we’ll start in the obvious place. You run two very different markets in Richmond and Charlotte. Is there any philosophy or strategy you can carry from one to the other or because of the difference in size and the way they are growing and the makeup of the population, do both buildings kind of require their own bespoke management styles?
Marsha Landess: You would be surprised how similar they are. Really, for me, it’s about the people, the philosophy, and what we try to accomplish every day. So, I try to create a larger mission and instill that and then hire people that believe in that mission.
Obviously in Charlotte, I’ve got six radio stations and the Dog House, so it’s very different as it relates to everybody looking to merge our two cultures together when Radio One bought the iconic stations here that they did. But it’s all about the people.
We talk about this in all of our meetings. It’s creating great content on the air, which is entertaining and informative, we create great campaigns for our advertisers that bring them results, and we take care of our community. If we focus on those three pillars, the money will follow.
DR: You hit on two things that perfectly combine for my next question, which are the campaigns and the community. In both buildings, you have what would be defined as niche formats – gospel in Richmond and sports in Charlotte. Those are smaller, very dedicated audiences.
What is it that you would say to advertisers that may dismiss both of them or any format that might fall into that so-called passion category? What would you say to people that just, at the snap of a finger will say, “Oh, that’s not my audience”?
ML: Oh, my gosh! Passion is the keyword because the listeners in those two formats are so passionate about each of them. The time spent listening is longer. Actually, prior to having a sports station under my responsibility, I used to say that inspiration and gospel were the most responsive audience I’d ever worked with in all of my years of radio. They listened to the station, they listened to the on-air personalities, and they’re very, very loyal. It’s like hearing a friend tell them to go do something. I feel that about our urban formats all the way around very passionately. Honestly, I say that about all of my formats. That’s probably not a good answer for you.
But look those two formats, they’re not going to be ratings leaders. An agency may not come down about a cost per point on that radio station. But customer points don’t buy products, right? People buy products. And the people that listen to those two particular formats love their radio stations and they listen to what’s on them. And what I mean is THEY LISTEN! It’s not background noise to them. That means that the advertisers are getting results.
DR: In addition to WFNZ, you’ve got WBT in Charlotte. Sports and news seem like a natural pairing. So, I wonder if you have an expectation, or is there always a game plan that if a seller goes out and gets a client, particularly a local client for one station, you’re always thinking about how they work on getting that client on the other station, too?
ML: Whatever client we go to, we’re trying to really deliver the marketing campaign. So we look at all of our properties and we say, ‘Okay, who are they trying to reach, what are they trying to accomplish, and which of our brands is going to be best with them?’ I’m including digital and including our Dog House. So what’s going to get that client the result the quickest way that we can and most efficiently?
There’s absolutely no question that sports and news talk just merge beautifully together. But also, if someone is really trying to reach females, then we’ve got our music stations that compliment them really beautifully as well. So it really depends on the client and the age demographics that they’re trying to reach.
When endorsements come through, I think that’s the most powerful tool that we have. Especially on news talk and sports. We’re really trying to have a commitment to local and we do very well in endorsements with our local clients.
DR: Stereotype is probably the wrong word because it’s more of an old joke of radio. Especially if you go back to the eighties and nineties, it was always programming and sales butting heads – two different departments completely siloed off from one another with two very different goals. I would imagine that is not at all what you see inside of a building these days.
ML: No, and especially not with the clusters that I run. The department heads over the years that I’ve hired, that ability to work together is part of my interview process with them because we are one.
We all have listeners, we all have clients, and obviously, we live in our community. Sales may technically have the clients, but we are a revenue culture. Everybody in our building sells, and we sell our listeners as well. We’re not going to ask our programming department to give away something on the air that we know is not appealing to our listeners. That’s not a win-win for anybody.
Here’s a perfect example. We were asked to give away a jar of mayonnaise in Richmond. We had Hellman’s mayonnaise and they wanted us to give away jars of mayonnaise. I was like, “No one is going to drive to the radio station to pick up a jar of mayonnaise. We’re not going to ask programming to put it on the air, right? So what are we going to do?”
So, we tied it into a tailgate. NASCAR is very big in Richmond as it is in Charlotte. We tied it into a NASCAR campaign and gave away NASCAR tickets. So now all of a sudden, that became a prize around recipes, around the tailgate. That became something that people really wanted to get. It was much better for the client and much better for the listener.
We try to always work that way and our sales department and our programming department, in both markets, get along really, really well, because they all see the big vision. So yeah, I don’t think radio stations could operate like that anymore. It’s too tough out there.
DR: Explain that idea of being a revenue culture to me a little more. I’m guessing it is not as simple as “everything is for sale all the time”. There’s got to be a more detailed idea to it in your mind.
ML: Yes. Everything is definitely not for sale. I guess where I’m going with that is that our program directors recognize that it’s not sales’ clients. They’re in meetings with us. They’re brainstorming marketing campaigns. They’re generating ideas to help our clients. It’s not just about sales. We all want to win, and we know that if we do the right things together, it happens and it can be very magical.
Now, there are growing pains that go with that at times. Everything is not always for sale. And you know what? The sale is not always a good thing sometimes. I don’t want anyone to take money from a client that we don’t feel we can really help.
DR: I want to talk about the program directors themselves. You took the reins in Charlotte and after the first year passed you had to find new program directors for WFNZ and The Mix. Terry Foxx handled a lot there. So, I’m guessing you went through that knowing it’s going to be almost impossible to find a one-for-one replacement when he left. So what qualities did you see in Jeff Rickard that made you say, “This guy gets us, maybe not the one for one, but he gets us and where we want to go”?
ML: Jeff and I met in New York last March, actually, Jason and Terry introduced us at the BSM Summit. Also, Terry helped me find Neal Sharpe who is our new PD for Mix as well.
He was great as he knew my management style and the expectations I had for these positions. He helped in the transition with both Program Directors.
Anyway, Jeff and I sat down for an initial meeting and immediately clicked. He has a passion and knowledge for this format. He wants to win. He’s competitive. He’s a good leader. He cares about people, the product, and where he is. He meets with people. He goes out on sales calls. He just fits the philosophy.
I think when you meet people, you either know it or you don’t. So after that breakfast, we went to meetings and then we met for lunch and stayed for coffee. So he and I ended up spending a lot of time together.
It’s funny, I interview a lot of people for these positions in my history because it’s so important to have that chemistry between two people that really understand it, and he just did. It wasn’t something he faked. It genuinely is who he is and he has done a fantastic job for us and he’s hired great people.
We have very similar management styles and we don’t settle for mediocrity. Excellence is really my only standard. That doesn’t mean it’s not going to take time to get there. We have to have patience, but I want someone who wants to win because I’m really competitive.
DR: I don’t know that our industry has ever changed so much in as short a period of time as it has since, you have been in the role you are now, leading buildings. So, when you’re going through that process talking to potential sports program directors, are there things that now, or in 2022, that you needed to know that you never thought would be imperative to that job in the past?
ML: Well, no question the digital aspect. If we think that we’re just radio, we’re crazy, we’re audio and we have to be everywhere that our listeners are. I need someone that is just constantly learning and not set in their ways.
We’re different. It’s not just “Let me walk into a car dealership and talk to you about sports and you sign a contract”. It just doesn’t work that way anymore. We’re so much more evolved about being able to understand it’s not just what’s over the airwaves, but also what’s on our digital, mobile, everywhere. You have to be everywhere.
DR: You’ve been with Radio One for a long time. You have advanced through the company, so as you move from one position to another, eventually ending up as a regional vice president, what kind of management did you have to do with your personal relationships in the building to establish new normals with familiar people?
ML: It’s about integrity and honesty, doing the right things, working, and caring about the people you work with, and challenging them. I didn’t really start in sales and become their manager. I have done that at a different company, and that was interesting as well.
My belief is you always have to be the best you can be at the current role you are in and always looking and acting the role that you want. Take on more responsibilities, find a mentor, ask for advice, and shadow people. I was always very much a part of our budgeting process. And I include our manager in our budgeting process because I want them to learn how to do it. I want them to understand the big picture.
I love the company I work for. Cathy Hughes is our founder. The foundation of this company was built on community service. Alfred Liggins and David Kantor really make sure that we know the importance of that as well as being fiscally responsible as we’re doing it.
I guess I’ve been very lucky because I work my tail off. I really do. Running two markets is a challenge, but I have a really great team in those markets, and that’s the only way I can do it. So my goal is to train the next me, the person that can grow into my role so that we keep it going.
DR: I do want to talk a little bit about the Panthers because play-by-play rights are more expensive than they’ve ever been before. Can you tell me a little bit about the factors that you were considering when you decided what the limit was that you were willing to pay for those rights to retain them and those factors that got you to that point of deciding “We’re just not in this business anymore”?
ML: You know, with that I’m not going to release too much of the information just out of respect for them because we still work with them on Charlotte FC. Agreeing to the new terms of the Panthers’ rights deal was just not a sound business decision for WBT or our cluster at that time. We value our relationship with Tepper Sports Management and their team and not carrying the Panthers was purely a business decision.
DR: Obviously the economy is hard for anyone to get a handle on right now, and plenty has been written about what it means for ad dollars. What about for ad reps? What is it like trying to recruit sellers in 2023?
ML: It is hard to recruit sellers in 2023. I think, first of all, I feel like I’m repeating myself. It’s really not just sellers. You’re in marketing and you have to have someone that understands marketing, not just sales. And that’s different than it was way back when.
DR: Let me interrupt, because I think that that’s a very interesting thing. Does that mean, then, that the pool of people that would be viable for you in 2023 is smaller or does it mean that you are still viable if you can sell, but you need to come in with an understanding that the job is much bigger now?
ML: Yes, you’re still viable if you can sell, but you absolutely have to understand that the job is much bigger. And I think different people have different philosophies on this. Some people feel like if you can sell, you can sell anything. I don’t believe that.
I think you have to understand marketing and be able to sell at the same time. We have a really seasoned sales team in both markets and they really understand marketing and getting results for our clients. I have a newer AE in Richmond and she’s a rock star, but she had an advertising and marketing degree and so she understands how to go in and really help a person grow their business. She’s just doing amazing. I’ve hired someone else who had sales experience, but not marketing experience. We thought they were going to be fantastic, but it was just too much for them.
You go in thinking, “I have all these radio stations with all these different demographics, and then I have all these websites, and then we sell events, and then we do community service!” I mean, they can’t handle it. You have to get someone who moves fast, is really competitive, has a desire to keep growing, and is not afraid to pick up the phone and walk into a business and have a real business-to-business conversation. And that’s not everybody.
DR: Is that in large part getting harder to find?
ML: It’s getting much harder to find. Yes, it’s a challenge, I think, in our industry for sure.
Demetri Ravanos is a columnist and features writer for Barrett Media. He is also the creator of The Sports Podcast Festival, and a previous host on the Chewing Clock and Media Noise podcasts. He occasionally fills in on stations across the Carolinas in addition to hosting Panthers and College Football podcasts. His radio resume includes stops at WAVH and WZEW in Mobile, AL, WBPT in Birmingham, AL and WBBB, WPTK and WDNC in Raleigh, NC.
You can find him on Twitter @DemetriRavanos or reach him by email at DemetriTheGreek@gmail.com.
