JAG had a traditional on-air and programming career for many years: He started in Vermont at WVTK and WXXX (95 Triple X) before moving to WKQI/Detroit. After a three-year run at KVDU (Voodoo 104)/New Orleans, he returned to Detroit, where he landed in middays at WDZH (98.7 Amp Radio) but was let go in August 2017 during the Entercom-CBS Radio merger.
“It was the week after my wedding!” he says, laughing. “My new – and thankfully still with me – wife said to me, ‘I know you love radio, but there’s always someone waiting in line behind you to do the same job for 10 grand less and more BS.’ I realized she was onto something.”
After three months doing social media for a rabbi who owned a tech company, JAG reached out to Warren Kurtzman at Coleman Insights for some, well, insights on what to try next. “He told me I might want to think about podcasting,” JAG says. Kurtzman referred him to industry vet Seth Resler, who was working for Jacobs Media at the time. “Seth is really up on this stuff, and he was doing a podcast on the arts and entertainment scene in Detroit. I ended up working as his producer and eventually co-host.”
Resler advised JAG to look into podcast production. “It was 2018,” JAG says. “I was like, no way, nobody’s going to pay me to produce a podcast.” Resler convinced him to attend Podcast Movement, an annual convention for the podcast industry. “It really reminded me of what radio used to be when I got into it – it was collaborative and exciting, and people wanted to get to know and help each other,” he recalls. “It was a ‘rising tide lifts all boats’ situation, as opposed to everyone fighting over a shrinking piece of pie.”
That world energized JAG, and he started translating his programming, production, and imaging skills into podcasting work but was still applying to social media jobs at the same time. Then his wife hit him with another piece of wise wisdom: “She told me, ‘You’re half-assing two different things. I need you to pick one and whole ass it.’ I thought that was fair. So, I went whole-ass into podcasting.”
JAG got his podcast business off the ground with help from Nick Craig, a jock he’d worked with at WKQI. “He was doing marketing for some financial advisors,” JAG says. “He wanted to offer these guys a podcast as part of a package, and he handed that piece off to me: I’d co-host and produce the show with the financial advisors and split the revenue with him. He told me to think of it like an AM radio Saturday morning show kind of deal.”
With his business foundation constructed, JAG began networking through some Detroit-area chambers of commerce and hooked up with some nonprofits. “I’m working with Laura Bonnell and her Bonnell Foundation for Cystic Fibrosis,” he says, citing their radio connection since Laura used to be a reporter at WWJ. “Both of her daughters have CF, so she started this foundation, and I’m doing a podcast with them.”
JAG’s passion project was a series on WJPZ/Syracuse, the student-run university station that’s churned out notable radio personalities and programmers. WJPZ recently celebrated its 50th anniversary, and JAG put together a podcast series where he interviewed station alumni. “It went over really well and drove attendance to our reunion banquet,” he says. It also hooked him up with a WJPZ alum who asked him about launching an internal communications podcast series for Hilton Hotels, opening another business pathway.
Asked about how other radio people might get into podcasting, JAG emphasizes the importance of transferable skills. “People skills are huge,” he says. “Most radio people have those because you’re interacting with listeners and clients and doing endorsement deals and all that.” He also stresses patience due to potential technical hiccups and advises allocating twice the amount of anticipated recording time to actually get an episode together.
“Brevity is key,” he says. “You have to know how to edit yourself – not just in real-time – but also in post-production, not just by taking out the ‘umms,’ but also the side-conversations. We’re all goldfish with limited attention spans. You need a PPM mentality where you have to grab attention in that first 15 to 30 seconds and offer something compelling, especially if you’re asking people to give you a half-hour or more of their time. It’s a bigger commitment to listen to a podcast than to like an Instagram post.”
While there are around 4 million podcasts available, only around 10% of them are active, as defined by Rob Walsh of Libsyn – meaning making it to 10 episodes and putting something out in the last 90 days. JAG says that can be less intimidating to newcomers but offers upfront advice: Realize you’re not going to make Joe Rogan money and sign clients up for complete seasons of a planned number of episodes – but manage their expectations.
By that, JAG means clearly defining their goals for the podcast and what they’re using it for. One of his favorite clients is the National Bone Marrow Transplant Link, for whom he’s done 14 seasons totaling about 100 episodes, but it’s not monetized. “We’re interviewing patients, survivors, caregivers, family members, nurses, social workers, doctors,” he says, “but it’s about building a community and telling stories. They’re not selling ads to ZipRecruiter or whatever, even though sponsors underwrite each episode to pay for production costs.”
Referring to the financial advisors, JAG says their podcast is primarily used as a tool for lead generation, marketing, and credibility. “They send out an email to their clients with the podcast each month, showcasing the topics they discussed,” he says. “Or if they’re talking to a potential client who has questions about a topic, they can direct that person to a specific episode where it’s addressed.”
Overall, JAG is thrilled with what he describes as his “second career,” especially after thinking he’d be in radio forever. “As I tell people, I love what radio was, but I got out of an industry that’s shrinking and into one that’s growing. It’s my passion now.”
Have questions about podcasting or want to see what JAG is doing? Check out jagindetroit.com or hit him on the socials @JAGinDetroit.
A former air personality and industry journalist, Keith Berman worked at the late Radio & Records for several years, where he held a number of positions before being promoted to format editor. While at R&R, he also served as a writer and reporter, covering breaking news; authoring weekly columns, format roundups and features; and contributing heavily to Street Talk Daily. When R&R folded, he co-founded RAMP (Radio and Music Pros) and spent 3 years covering radio and record labels before taking a hiatus from the industry. His experiences also include time on-air at stations in Connecticut, Boston and Southern California. He can be reached at KeithBerman@gmail.com.
