If you read these columns regularly, it is hard not to notice how happy and bought in everyone that works for Good Karma Brands seems. Vinny DiMarco certainly noticed. That is why when he had the chance to lead the company’s recent acquisition in New York, he jumped at it.
ESPN New York has one of the toughest jobs in the country. The station has to serve the hard-core New York sports fan and also giving clearance to ESPN Radio’s top shows in the biggest media market in the country. Threading that needle perfectly and turning into revenue isn’t a task you can just step into.
That is why Vinny DiMarco is uniquely qualified for the position. Before overseeing national sales for ESPN Radio, he was the GSM at ESPN New York. Back then it was owned and operated by Disney. He says that has given the building a real advantage in the culture department.
In the final Meet the Market Managers column of the season, Vinny and I talk about media coverage, recruiting people at the low end of the business in a time when rents and inflation are at record levels and so much more.
Enjoy this conversation courtesy of Point-to-Point Marketing.
Demetri Ravanos: After years of selling the ESPN Radio product nationally, what appealed to you about making the move back to local radio and leading a major market station?
Vinny DiMarco: You know, it kind of put me back to my roots, Demetri. I started out my career, after a short stint at the national rep firm, I moved into local radio years ago at 1010 WINS and spent a number of years working for CBS, a little bit of time working for Cox Radio before I came to ESPN. So local radio was really in my roots. It felt pretty natural to make the transition back.
DR: Good Karma has a great relationship with ESPN Radio and has for years. So what did you know about the company and about what their goals were for the New York station when you first started discussing this job with Craig Karmazin and his team?
VD: I’ve had a long history with Good Karma in my previous role on the network side. I was developing business for our affiliate stations across multiple markets, including the Good Karma stations.
One of the hats that I was wearing for about the last six or seven years at ESPN and Disney is that I was the liaison for Good Karma Brands inside of ESPN and Disney for the digital side of their business.
I had exposure to these guys for a number of years and got to know them pretty well prior to accepting this role and moving into this role. So I had a lot of experience with them and knew what kind of company it was and knew what the people were all about and the culture. So it was really a pretty easy decision for me to move over when they acquired New York.
DR: Are there moments where you are still leaning on some of the guys that have been in the culture for a while to understand the way things are done or had you had so much exposure that it was literally like walking from one door into the next one for you?
VD: Oh, well, I had experience with the culture and the people from the outside. Certainly now I’m completely entrenched in it. So I certainly lean on some of the veterans inside the company, from Craig Karmazin to Steve Politziner to Steve Wexler and Sam Pines and Keith Williams and some of the senior leadership, including my boss now Debbie Brown. That really helped transition this New York team who have all been ESPN and Disney employees for the last number of years into the GKB culture.
DR: So you mentioned the fact that all of these folks used to be direct employees of ESPN. You were that yourself when you were the general sales manager of the same station until 2011. I wonder as you come back into the building, what are some things that you’ve realized are very different, both about going from sales manager to market manager and also just about how much local radio has changed in the last decade-plus.
VD: Yeah, well, great to come back to so many of the same people that I hired or worked alongside when I was here that long ago. They are still here. So it’s kind of returning to some of my friends and colleagues in the building and, you know, certainly making a coming back.
I was a general sales manager and coming back as the market manager, you know, you have to take a little bit more holistic approach. Actually, forget that. You have to have a much more holistic approach to the business overall.
Sales managers, for the most part, care about one thing which is driving sales. All decisions are made based on getting to a number. As a market manager, you have to be more cognizant of what’s happening on the content side of the business as well as on the marketing side and in the community. It’s been a great transition for me quite honestly.
As for what’s changed in the business, I think radio is still the great medium that it’s always been. You know, there’s a lot more challenges now as there are a lot more competitors, not just from the radio side of things, but we’re dealing with really any medium. Everyone’s fighting for the same piece of the pie, and you know what’s interesting also, Demetri, is when I was here as the GSM, the New York market was a $750 million a year market. It’s probably less than half of that now. So it really has become more competitive. Dollars are shifting around. That’s why it’s so critical that GKB has been able to expand and really become a leader in the digital marketing space and really be able to take advantage of the shift in investment from our partners.
DR: So speaking of that, I was thinking a lot before we jumped on today about that sort of, I guess, razor’s edge feeling that there is when it comes to gambling money in New York right now. On the outside we hear a lot about sportsbooks rethinking how they advertise, how much they are going to advertise, given the tax commitments there. What are you actually seeing on the ground?
VD: At this point, we still continue to drive some great results for our sportsbook partners. We know that their strategy moving forward is probably going to have to change and shift. What we have to stay focused on is driving results for them, and we feel confident that will continue to be a part of their media investment.
We’ll see where that industry kind of goes as we move towards the future. I think it’s going to change. You know, that customer acquisition period is no longer in the honeymoon stage. Their business starts to change and morph and we just have to be creative and work alongside them as partners to make sure that we’re helping them with their new strategy and continue to drive results for them.
DR: So New York is one of the great ratings battles in all of sports media. Certainly, it’s one of the markets where sports radio gets the most attention. Whether it is Andrew Marchand, Neil Best, or whoever, you’ve got a lot of guys writing about what Michael Kay is doing versus Carton & Roberts each book. I wonder, just as an observer, how much do you think the listeners actually care about that? Is the amount of coverage justified?
VD: I think that the average listener knows what they like and they know where to find great content and when to seek out that content. I think that the media likes to make more out of that ratings battle because it helps them sell papers, quite frankly. From time to time, there’s some misinformation as it relates to audience numbers that gets reported.
What I go back to, Demetri, is that we continue with our shows, to drive results for our advertising partners and serve our sports fans.
Competition is good and healthy. Most big markets have, you know, two sports stations. I do think that the media likes to make more than it is because, again, it helps them sell papers.
DR: So, Dave and Rick in the mornings and obviously Michael and his crew in the afternoons are the local identity of the station. Then there is a lot of network commitment on 98.7. I can go to any of those same people I talked about and hear all about the disadvantages of that. But what have been the advantages inside the building? What have been the advantages of not only the national identity on air, but also the close association in that way with ESPN?
VD: Look, we are ESPN. We’re the local arm in New York of ESPN. Those four letters come along with some tremendous credibility and resources and access. We’re able to get a perspective. I think most fans, while they certainly want to hear about their local teams, they also want to hear what’s happening right now. You know, people want to hear about what happens in the NBA Draft. It’s a big story, right? We also have a Stanley Cup Final going on.
People want to hear about national sports stories and the coverage from ESPN is second to none and that translates across the radio side.
So again, we are the ESPN local arm and it’s been tremendous. There are some really talented hosts on the network side. Again, going back to what you asked before about fans, when a fan is listening to our station, they don’t know where that talent sits or where it originates from. They just know if it’s good content, they’ll find it.
DR: Right now, as you look at where not only radio, but the media itself stands and all the diversification and all the different options out there, what is your sales pitch when you are recruiting non-air talent, whether it’s sellers, promotions, whatever? What is the sales pitch for coming to join Good Karma Brands and ESPN New York right now?
VD: Look, it starts with the culture. Good Karma has an incredible track record of attracting great people and retaining them. That’s because of the culture and the people that are the foundation of the company.
It’s a people-first company. They really do care about all their teammates and care that people have an opportunity to exceed expectations and grow their careers. It’s something that you can talk about and you can write about, but until you’re actually in the company and you’re actually feeling that and seeing it first-hand, it’s kind of hard to process because it’s a little bit different.
We actually have the best of both worlds here with ESPN and Disney influence on our culture for the last couple of decades. Now we’re merging it with an incredible Good Karma culture. For people that we recruit, those are the things that we talk about that we want them to see, that we care about our people. We care about seeing them succeed and grow. And we prove that when we bring people on board because good karma has very little turnover. It is such a wonderful place to work.
DR: Have you had to think about or change your approach to bringing in people at the lower end of the industry? I mean, the cost of living has always been very high in New York, but now we’re dealing with some record inflation. Does it concern you at all, as someone that’s over an entire building, that those people that will one day be your leaders are driven away before they even start just because of the nature of where we are right now?
VD: Look, I don’t think that’s a problem that’s specific to sports media or any business in particular right now. I think it’s it’s just a fact of life right now.
What we try to do is be competitive, especially with entry-level positions, and offer people the opportunity, as I just said, to grow their careers. I think if you show people who are coming in that there’s an opportunity for them to advance and grow their incomes and get to the next level, then I’m not concerned about it. This is really on top of it being a business where you can do pretty well in your career. It’s also a fun business to be in.
There’s a lot of other businesses that you can be in where you may have the same challenges with cost of living and things like that, but you’re not having as much fun, right? So it’s not always about the money, but certainly, money is a factor and you need money to live. But, you know, people want to feel good about what they’re doing. They want to like the people that they work with and again, have the opportunity to grow. That’s what we’ve been able to show people here. I’m really not concerned about the inflation and cost of living. It Is just a factor no matter what business you work in.
DR: Compare the two sides of the business a little bit for me. For programing talent, New York City is like a beacon, right? Everybody wants to be able to prove that they belong in the biggest market. What about for sellers? Do you get interest from sellers that want to climb the ladder in market size the way hosts do.
VD: We have seen that. In fact, we’ve seen interest from people across Good Karma who have expressed interest in coming to work here now that Good Karma is operational in New York City.
It really depends on people’s situations. Younger people tend to be more able to relocate. Their roots aren’t so deep yet in the markets they’re in.
But, you know, you can be really successful in this business without being in New York City or any major market. It’s really about the person.
But we welcome that interest. If people are successful in one market, they can be successful in any market. You know, a good salesperson is going to be good no matter where you put them.
Demetri Ravanos is a columnist and features writer for Barrett Media. He is also the creator of The Sports Podcast Festival, and a previous host on the Chewing Clock and Media Noise podcasts. He occasionally fills in on stations across the Carolinas in addition to hosting Panthers and College Football podcasts. His radio resume includes stops at WAVH and WZEW in Mobile, AL, WBPT in Birmingham, AL and WBBB, WPTK and WDNC in Raleigh, NC.
You can find him on Twitter @DemetriRavanos or reach him by email at DemetriTheGreek@gmail.com.
