Day 2 of the 2024 BNM Summit has kicked off in Washington D.C. at the Jack Morton Auditorium at The George Washington University. We’re updating this column throughout the day to keep you aware of the key information and news delivered on stage by this year’s exceptional group of speakers. Barrett Media News Editor Garrett Searight will be adding tidbits throughout the day as each session wraps up, so be sure to check back multiple times to avoid missing anything important.
9:10-9:50 AM — Cutler’s Laboratory
- Jim Cutler (Voice Artist)
Cutler began his presentation by showcasing the idea that content isn’t necessarily timebound as much as it is interesting-bound. Audiences will stay engaged if the content is still interesting.
The rise of TikTok has created much shorter attention spans, with the “swipe factor” being incredibly prevalent, especially in video content. “TikTok brain applies to everything,” Cutler said.
He showcased examples of what good and bad imaging entails. Fluff is out, topical promos and imaging are in. Urgency matters to listeners more than ever.
He continued that using great classic audio from speeches is a great idea for ways to create imaging and content.
Social Proof is something that many in the entertainment and political sphere. It is something that radio and media entities don’t do well, Cutler said. Whether it is digital, phone calls, social media, or any other form of social proof, you can utilize it.
9:50-10:30 AM — The Programming Party
- Drew Anderssen (KRLD)
- Chris Berry (iHeartMedia)
- Julia Ziegler (WTOP)
- Steve Moore (KMOX/97.1 FM Talk)
Barrett began the panel by asking the programmers about whether or not there is an election fatigue in regard to President Joe Biden, Donald Trump, and Kamala Harris.
“I think it depends on the brand,” Anderssen said. “Obviously, you’ve got to cover the headlines of an election. I think it’s really about the talk show hosts and finding the balance for those shows and those audiences. We’re figuring that balance out. This is my first big election cycle in DFW. One thing I would say is I’m always encouraging our hosts to cover the headlines and then move on. Let’s give something different and unique that’s local and more connected and provides escapism. If you’re beating that same drum every day, you’re begging your audience to go to classic rock.”
“Topic A is always going to be Topic A,” said Berry. “The reality is that you’re always going to be Topic A. This is our Super Bowl. I would imagine that if you were in a swing state like Arizona, I can assure you that this morning at KFYI, James T. Harris was talking about Trump vs Harris.”
“We have conversations about whether or not it should even be a discussion point,” Moore said. “What we should do is let the newsroom handle it from a news perspective.” He added that thinks for KMOX are different for 97.1 FM Talk.
“For us, it’s always local, local, local. It doesn’t matter what time of year it is, we’re going to focus on local,” Ziegler said. “We’re obviously gonna hit on the top political stories of the day, we’ll hit the top headlines, and then we’re moving on. We’re not gonna analyze what happened, we’re just gonna tell you ‘Here’s what happened,’ and let you decide.”
The next subject was about reaching younger audiences. KRLD recently moved away from it’s all-news format to a more talk-based format. Drew Anderssen part of that change was with looking for younger audiences in mind.
“We’re challenged more today than ever before,” Anderssen said. “In Nielsen, you’ve got time spent listening and cume. We were struggling with a cume perspective in the middle of the day. It wasn’t about leaning into conservative talk or any particular ideal.” He continued by noting that attracting younger talent likely helps in attracting younger listeners.
“We made a decision years and years ago to have a one newsroom concept. When our reporters go out in the field, they’re not just doing audio. They’re taking photographs, they’re doing standups for social media videos. On the digital side, we’ve said if you work on our website, you also need to know how to get a great interview. You need to be able to get great sound and crosstrain. That has really helped us. Because then you have a newsroom full of people who are multimedia journalists. So when something crazy is going on, people can help wherever needed. We’ve really invested in storytelling and great content (in an effort to attract younger audiences and also have a multiplatform strategy).”
Chris Berry was asked about how he quantifies success by individual talents.
“A lot of people in this room are news/talk programmers as opposed to all-news programmers. Rush Limbaugh used to say ‘You can get the news from anybody but this is the only place you can get the news from me.’ And we teach our brands that. You can figure out when you’re doing something right. It’s pretty obvious. You don’t need to wait for a book in the mail to come in three months.”
“Every one of our talent are different. We have talent that just want to go on the radio and talk. We have talent that are interested in YouTube. For each person, we’re kind of hand-holding. We’re trying to get more engagement back into the radio station,” said Moore. “It’s a challenge and it’s something we’re gonna have to work our way through.”
10:30-11:10 AM — State of News Media Coverage
- Chris Plante (Westwood One/Newsmax)
- Steven Portnoy (ABC News Radio)
Portnoy started the conservation by asking Plante about the “trust desert” in mainstream news media.
Plante shared that trust in the media peaked directly after the Watergate scandal and has been on a decline since then. “Now, you see faith and confidence and trust in the media, if you’re lucky, in the 30s,” said Plante. “18% have a great deal of trust in the news media. People feel like they’ve been misled, deceived, lied to, or had facts left out purposely. The American people get it, even if you don’t follow the news closely. The reason there’s not a lot of trust and confidence is because the news media doesn’t deserve a lot of trust and confidence.”
Portnoy then questioned Plante on criticisms from the left that the media isn’t tough enough on Trump.
“Half of what he says he thinks is funny. Part of what he does is schtick. He’s one part Rodney Dangerfield … the news media say that the problem is too generous and too kind to him. You can say in 2015 and 2016, they promoted him. They put him front and center. They made him a political star when they thought he was going nowhere and was just mockable. They propped him up. I think, primarily, because he’d be easy to destroy or self-destruct. Then something went terribly wrong and then it was just ‘Katie, bar the door.'”
“What should be the proper role of journalists in covering politics?” Portnoy asked.
Plante, whose step-father Bill Plante was a longtime CBS News reporter, said it’s about truth and facts.
“There’s a great Albert Einstein quote ‘The right to search for the truth implies also a duty; one must not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be the truth’,” said Plante, adding that he believes the biggest lies the media tell are omissions. “Don’t give me half of the story. It’s always the same half of the story. That’s why conservative media rose in the first place. It’s because people are starved. You shouldn’t have to look for the other half of the story.”
Portnoy asked if there was a market for “down the middle news” coverage.
“That’s a great and fair question,” Plante admitted. “You have identifiably left-leaning news and identifiably right-leaning news. So there’s a space in the middle. But people choose their news by their already-existing believes. You’ve seen it forever. Is there space in the middle? I’d like to think that there is, but it’d have to be marketed and sold. But we’re so polarized, so finding the middle ground is a tough sell right now.”
11:20 AM-12:00 PM — The Keynote Conversation
- Curtis LeGeyt (NAB)
The first question posed to LeGeyt was about the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act.
“What’s so strange about this legislation is the bedfellows that have come together to co-sponsor this legislation,” LeGeyt said, pointing to Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) and Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) working together to bring the bill to Congress. He noted that 62 Senators and more than 250 members of the House have shared their support for the bill.
“My view here is we have all the ingredients we need to get a bill passed into law. We’re just beholden to some of the larger atmospherics in Washington right now. The U.S. Senate works in such a way that any one piece of legislation is really difficult to get a week of discussion on the floor,” he shared, stating the the organization’s hope is to tack the bill onto another larger piece of legislation.
Jason Barrett asked LeGeyt his reasoning for why AM radio is still so important in the car.
“In times of real emergency, whether you’re talking about an earthquake, wildfire, or national security is, AM radio has a reach, is freely available, and is durable. More than 70 stations are primary entry points that work with FEMA for emergency alerts,” she said. “But there’s a second piece here. In that time of emergency, if you’re getting that emergency alert on AM radio, these stations are the entry point that allows those emergency alerts to ripple throughout the country. The viability of the AM band is a matter of public safety.”
“What we have said to the auto industry is put public safety above your bottom line,” LeGeyt continued. “What this is about is the auto industry’s want to monetize every bit of commerce that happens in the automobile. This is part of a larger plan to move listening away from AM/FM radio. If you’re a broadcaster, you need to be for this legislation because the same principles leading the auto companies to prioritize tech away from the consumer, it is part of a larger plan.”
Big Tech now accounts for 65.6% of all advertising revenue in 2024, and LeGety believes it needs to be addressed by legislators.
“This is the area where Washington needs to step up, period. We could spend two hours talking about the big tech platforms — Google being the most significant — and every way they have affected the economy, which is net-bad for consumers and net-bad for business,” said LeGeyt. “We need modernization of FCC limits on ownership limits, period. The FCC needs to do something about that. There’s an advertising element to this, and what’s fair to our programming element to this. Make no mistake, there are fundamentals here that no local media is going to be able to compete with Google, Facebook, Apple, and Amazon are without intervention with policymakers.”
AI is obviously a hot-button issue in the media.
“There are unquestionably some benefits there,” he shared. “No doubt, for local stations across the country who are facing challenges on how to allocate their resources, there are going to be things that are better done by utilizing AI technologies. We’d be having a very different conversation in 12 months, 16 months.”
Barrett asked LeGeyt about the role of broadcasters in the 2024 presidential election.
“If our audiences trust us, these politicians will be on our airwaves getting their message across. Our ability to maintain trust will draw candidates onto our airwaves,” he shared. “Frankly, a major issue from where I sit is how do we keep our journalists safe? We know it’s a very tense political environment. We know that the rhetoric of certain politicians is to demonize the press and really rally certain types of political engaged groups to carry that mantle and villanize any sort of reporting that doesn’t agree with any particular agenda. We need to stay above it but also keep our journalists safe.”
12:00-12:20 — BNM Summit Awards Ceremony
- Gold Standard in Leadership Award: David Kantor (Radio One)
Kantor accepted the award by noting that he’s worked in radio for 40 years and said he’s never been asked to speak about leadership. “I’m not sure I have a specific leadership style. Mine is organic and adaptive,” he shared.
“I’ve realized there are a lot of things that go into being a good leader. Have a mission, build a team, have passion, work hard, and know the psychological contract you have with your people. That contract will get your people to follow you anywhere,” he continued. “Explain and emphasize your goals to your team over and over again. Reinforce the positive. Everyone wants to be part of a winning team. The ability to have and convey that mission will get your people excited and willing to go that extra mile.”
He continued by noting that his stance has always been to hire great people and get out of their way, which led him to accepting the award today.
Kantor added that programmers should aspire to be similar to all-star baseball players, hitting .300 and failing 70% of thee time. He advocated programmers to take chances and that what matters most is that you’re swinging, not that you’re correct in 100% of the choices you make. “We’re a business of innovation,” he said.
“As a leader, you need to be willing to do anything to help your team,” Kantor continued of his leadership style. “Sometimes, its more important do things that are important to others than ourselves.”
1:30-2:10 PM — A View From the Top
- Dan Mason (Seventy Six Capital)
- Alfred Liggins (Urban One)
Mason began the session by admitting he spent too much time earlier in his career defending the term “radio,” noting that he — in retrospect — was “defending an appliance instead of defending local audio content.”
Liggins shared that he changed the name of his company from Radio One to Urban One because the company had diversified its holdings, not because it no longer values radio. “We changed it Urban One so we can identify ourselves across the different channels we’re in. I’ve had several requests from markets that want to move to just Urban One because the products we sell aren’t just radio. There’s a movement now to be more ubiquitous.”
Mason shared that he believed a few years ago, a 50,000-watt AM station could still compete. But he has changed his tune. “Don’t get me wrong, I still think there’s a need for AM Radio, but if you’re a stand-alone AM in a market like San Diego, New Orleans, or Vegas, you have to an FM companion,” said Mason.
Liggins pointed to Charlotte news/talk station WBT as an example of what the future looks like for AM radio.
“The audience is very old. These are people who have the habit of going to that frequency for decades. You get a big 12+ number, but when you look 25-54, you’re ranked very low. I believe we need to find an FM home for it for it to remain viable for the future. We had a couple of options, but we really need a real FM signal for a brand like that. I agree with you 100%. I think AM is gonna have a place in a place where areas are different, like in Alaska, or if you have a format you can’t get anywhere else. In news or talk, it is available in places other than AM radio.”
Mason continued that he was a big proponent of PPM measurement from Nielsen. But is not any longer.
“PPM was very tough for urban radio,” Liggins said. “The diary was recall and perceived listening. At the end of the day, when PPM came along, it showed urban radio with lower shares. There were big numbers. I don’t know that you could have avoided it. Was that the best device? Cleary it wasn’t. Voltaire was a mess and we came to it late. And then everybody had it. Intellectually, you say the industry needs to move some form of a sophisticated way of tracking it … It has not been good for radio. In fact, it’s been bad for radio. I ultimately think the industry needs to move to its own consortium for measurement. We don’t have another option so we’re beholden to the profit motive of Nielsen.”
Liggins concluded by noting that many expected format changes for stations like WBT — which the company bought in 2020 — or WIBS — which it purchased in 2022. But that wasn’t the case and won’t be the case.
“If you see us buy a news/talk radio station, our plan is not to change the format,” he joked.
2:10-2:50 PM — The Final Phase
- Gordon Borrell (Borrell Associates)
Borrell began by pointing out that digital media has seen a meteoric rise from 2000 to 2027, up to $14 billion, while print media, broadcast media, and outdoor advertising have all plummeted. Local media companies get about 14% of digital advertising. Print companies now receive 50% of their revenue from digital advertising, Borrell said.
He calls this period from 2024 to 2027 as “the final phase” as every media entity moves to a digital advertising focus, which slows the purchasing. 75% of all local advertising will be digital by 2027. “We’ve got a greater sense of competition., but we’ve also got a greater sense of local advertisers. They’ve gotten smarter from a local marketing standpoint.”
In 2018, 72% of local ad buyers said they were novices. That figure dropped to 50% in 2023. 22% said they were masters in 2018, while 27% responded similarly in 2023. In 2017, local buyers were buying 8 different types of media. In 2023, that list dropped to five, with half being a digital media. The different media companies dropped from seven in 2010 to 6 in 2018 to four in 2023. The median is now two, with the most frequent answer being that local advertisers are buying from one media company.
In 2019, 7% of local ad buyers never dealt with sales reps. That figure jumped to 20% by 2023. Buyers value a high-level marketing expertise from their local media company as the biggest cause of selecting their marketing partner.
Previously, television was viewed as the best overall marketing expertise and print media companies were viewed as the best in digital marketing expertise. Borrell shared that radio is now viewed as the #1 entity for both sectors.
Borrell shared that radio buyers are utilizing over-the-top television and are losing some of their advertising dollars to that new category.
The company projects that by 2030, one media company in each market will see its net revenue grow again consistently.
2:50-3:30 PM — Preparing for Tomorrow
- Dave Greene (Barrett Media)
- Michael Spacciapolli (Audacy Pittsburgh)
- Tim Wenger (Audacy Buffalo)
- Marsha Landess (Radio One Charlotte/Richmond)
Greene asked the panel about how they have approached non-traditional revenue streams for their markets and what they’re doing in that space.
“We’ve had a ton of great ideas for political NTR events,” Wenger said. “It’s hard to do a politically driven event. That’s something I’m really interested in, but can’t stand here and say we’ve brought in six-figure revenue from.”
“From an integrated content standpoint, we’ve integrated things that we’ve been able to find sponsorships around,” Spaccapolli said. “Whether it’s fixed position or set programs, we’ve been able to get new dollars.”
“Through the month of October, we’re doing two StreamYards a week leading up to a News & Brews event and Talktoberfest,” said Landess. “When the listeners walk in that brewery, they sit down and ask questions, we get great sponsorships, it’s great listener events, and it’s a community builder.”
Finding talent has been an issue. Spaccapolli said the KDKA Next Take program the station launched earlier this year has led to the brand seeing a pair of hires come from the program.
Wenger said he followed that program closely, and is something more markets should attempt to replicate. He added that he is constantly interviewing for sales executives and is disappointed often by what they find.
Landess said Radio One in Charlotte just yesterday offered a job to a recent college graduate after finding out about the candidate at a birthday party. She joked that you need to find good talent anywhere. “Schools, universities, networking, however you can find them.”
Spaccoapoli said that culture and environment are important in recruitment. “People know what’s going on inside your group,” he shared. “Recruitment is an all the time thing. It is an everyday thing. Finding great people is tough, but when you find them, they make a significant difference.”
The future is always at the forefront of what the industry is focused on. So what will be important in five years?
“Staying local, staying relevant, staying focused on what is important on the local market,” Landess said.
“Local gets thrown around a lot and it’s such an important word in what we do, without exclusive content, I think we’re all dead,” said Wenger. “If they can get the music or information somewhere else and it’s easier, they will. Having that strategic, unique content gives you an edge. Because now you have something to sell. It’s unique to the advertiser, too.”
The topic shifted to the perception of the industry from younger people and how radio can make the industry more enticing to younger employees.
“This is a fun industry, this is an energized industry,” Wenger said. “I share excitement for the industry. It’s up to us to build that culture in our buildings.”
“I’m excited about our local content,” Spaccapoli said. “We have built a group that could be replicated in a lot of places that year after year be in a content perspective that can drive product and we have so much control over … and we can use our talent as influencers and proving that they can have a major impact on our revenue.”
3:40-4:20 PM — On The Spot
- Jeff Wade (WBAL)
- David Wood (WIBC)
- Mike Schaefer (WBT)
Barrett began the conversation by asking about what the brand-building focus looked like for each station.
Wood began by talking about community and events, noting their importance. “It was reaffirming to hear about that this week, because we’ve been focused on that.”
“I feel like WBT needs to put forth a stronger effort on social and digital from a programming effort and meet our audience where they are more effectively,” said Schaefer.
“Diversifying how you’re reaching the audience. More of finding partnerships and developing community relationships and events so newer audiences can see them, that’s something that’s going to be really important,” said Wade.
The first question from an assembled group was from JJ Surma. He asked the panel what they look for in a branding voice, and what they wish they knew sooner in their mission of branding a station.
“It’s one that reflects the attitude of the station,” said Schaefer. “WBT leans toward the irreverent. No one is afraid of poking fun at themselves or being poked fun at. So the branding voice should echo that. I believe in not having a single, solitary voice. I lean heavily into the secondary voice. I have a male/female team. We’re able to reflect the audience. I think it lends to a more dynamic sound.”
“I look for voices that can match the immediacy of the copy and marry the message with the tone,” Wade added. “That’s the thing that I look for most. That’s something that’s really important for me.”
“First and foremost, flexibility,” said Wood. “Also, versatility. We like to do irreverent stuff, too. I think that’s really important.”
The next question came from KOA 850 program director Dave Tepper. His question was about the shrinking attention span from audiences.
“Studies show people are making decisions now in six seconds. With topics, the thing that I counsel my hosts on are that you have to remain interesting and compelling. Once you run out of gas on something, you’re just wasting everyone’s time,” Wade said. “We talk about things like the topic tree and different angles so it’s not the same discussion over and over and over again. You have to make the audience want to stick around.”
“We made the listener listen to four or five minutes to their least favorite thing on the station: commercials. Let’s get to it and give them something that pulls them in right away,” said Wood. “What I think is important is every two minutes, and that’s just a number I made up, you need to do something that catches people’s attention. Whether it’s playing a piece of audio, playing music, or taking a sharp right turn.”
Schaefer said he would tell callers when he was a call screen “Tell your story as quick as possible, ask your question, and if you don’t, he’s gonna hang up on you,” in an effort to get to the content faster. “Most people are with you somewhere between 20 and 35 minutes, so you have to give them what they need.”
Another question from Erick Erickson was about how the programmers attempt to get a balance between timely news and live listens versus monetizing a podcast.
“I want to encourage people to listen to the radio station now,” said Schaefer. “If we’re repurposing it later, sure, drive the heck out of it.”
“Timeliness is the thing that’s going to help us all survive. It’s the one advantage we have over podcasts,” added Wade. “We carry live events and press conferences because people aren’t going to get that in podcasts. We live in the moment. There’s an audience for that, for sure. The thing that’s really going to separate us from that space and keep us relevant is bringing people things as they happen.”
“I almost don’t view show replays as podcasts,” Wood said. “Technically they are, but it’s just on-demand. The other thing is I have my guys doing things outside of the show. I’ve got two of my guys doing a gambling podcast. I got two other guys in recovery doing a sobriety podcast.”
