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I launched my company in 2015. Prior to the pandemic, younger people reached out frequently to make sure I knew of their interest in programming radio stations. I get plenty of messages from young people interested in being on the air, but the messages often pertain to improving a show or growing an audience, not finding a way to get hired or land a bigger role at a radio station.
Younger people express less interest today in programming and behind the scenes roles than they used to. Having led program director job searches for numerous companies and markets, I wonder why that is. On-air hosting is the more glamorous job. However, not everyone is going to be the next Pat McAfee, Stephen A. Smith or Mina Kimes.
I’ve noticed similar challenges hiring writers and editors. We receive high interest in our openings, in fact, over four hundred people applied in less than five days for two recent openings. Many though are not in the industry, and are simply job hunting on LinkedIn and Indeed. Some young people do reach out and research us, which I love. Most of the interest though comes from older people in different industries. Broadcasters are less interested in writing than they once were.
If being a future reporter, writer or working in the media business is of interest, we’ve had a pretty good track record of advancing careers. We also provide a reason to connect with every single member of the media industry. I’ve seen this same thing in New York City, Los Angeles, Washington D.C., and Nashville when we’ve run conferences. We’ll contact 100-150 professors and faculty members at local universities, offering students an opportunity to attend, learn and network for FREE. If five or six take advantage of the offer, that’s a lot.
Looking at it strictly from the radio side, why are producers and assistant program directors less active pursuing paths forward? Is it better for a young person to build their own brand, especially if they want to be on the air, rather than working for a company behind the scenes? Are PD’s teaching and encouraging their people to leave and pursue bigger roles? Do younger people see value working in radio? Is interest up, down or the same when radio brands have openings? How aware are corporate executives of their future stars? I have many questions.
It’s no secret, the radio industry has gone through a lot of layoffs in recent years. Compensation isn’t great when you’re starting out, and programmers are doing more than ever. That makes it tougher to find time for development, which is the one thing a young person needs. They’re not in your building because they can’t wait to press buttons for a live event.
Some brand leaders now manage multiple radio stations. Market managers are pulling double duty too. It’s easy to say ‘programmers need to find time to coach, develop, and scout future talent’, but when you’re tasked with helping sales and digital teams, managing play-by-play relationships, writing/producing imaging, scheduling clocks/employees, booking guests, analyzing ratings, handling contracts with agents and employees, and balancing sleep and a family life, it’s a lot to juggle. The part that suffers most is finding time to recruit, scout, and coach future talent, analyze content, and plan for the future.
I have the good fortune of working with a few notable universities. I speak to and hear from students directly. During a recent trip, I asked fifteen students to raise their hands if they were interested in working in radio. One hand went up. That student wanted to call baseball games for a local team. Young people do get excited about creating content though. They love sports, music, and news personalities, the brands they represent, the access the job provides, and the social media platforms where content is distributed. What they don’t get excited by is the medium. Say the words ‘content, podcast, video or digital’ and there’s greater enthusiasm than if the word ‘radio’ is mentioned.
Having noticed the changes, I wondered if others were experiencing the same inside radio buildings. Is interest in working in sports or news/talk radio up, down or the same as it was a decade ago? Are younger people still willing to pay dues behind the scenes to get on the air? Do they see it as more advantageous to build their own brand rather than join a radio station? How difficult is it for programmers to get buy in from direct/corporate bosses when introducing an unproven voice?
To get the best answers, I spoke discreetly with brand leaders from ten companies. Here’s what they had to say.
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Audacy: There’s much less interest in behind the scenes roles from younger people. They can create their own content now, and over the air radio isn’t considered cool. The 25-year old male does not listen to traditional radio anymore. They watch YouTube and Twitch, and they stream. We as an industry have to recruit the fun-ness back to the industry. Bankruptcy headlines do not help!
Beasley: Many younger people still desire to get in the radio business. I’ve hired talent from non-media backgrounds and after coaching and developing them, they’ve become major contributors to our content presentation. The Program Director must make it a priority to talk with, build relationships with and check out every new talent that is coming along. For every 10 people you talk to, only one or two may have something to offer. Once you get someone into your organization, you have to give them time for conversation and guidance.
We all want someone to mentor and inspire us. There may be a talent sitting inside your group right now that has tremendous potential but has not gotten the feedback/direction they need. In the end, it’s about leadership, and making a commitment to find the right personnel that can make a difference for the future.
Bonneville: We are finding it more difficult to get young candidates to apply for traditional radio roles behind the scenes. I was in a meeting recently where someone said they noticed a dramatic difference in the robust number of applications they received for a job posting for a digital podcast producer vs. radio producer opening. Regarding unknown voices, I think it has everything to do with the role and expectations. The harder the sell of an unknown talent is often due to needing to gain buy-in from the sales leadership.
Cox: It is the same but I blame the journalism schools more than anything. Most of the potential journalists graduating from big J schools all want to work in TV. They don’t think of radio as a possibility. Each time I talk to a group of students and ask what they want to do the answer is TV sports or TV news. When I follow up and ask if they’ve thought about radio, the answer is 100% no.
We have have some success attracting young talent for board op and traffic anchor roles. We’ve found ways to give them the coaching and reps necessary to get them up to speed, and utilize them across different departments to allow them room to grow and expand their professional horizons. It is very hard recruiting young talent these days specifically for news jobs. However, if we keep our eyes and ears open on the talent we have internally, invest time and energy coaching to grow our next generation, and are willing to take a risk on potential without experience, it’s amazing what you can achieve.
Cumulus: People do see the value in being involved with a big brand. If you have a major sports team, or if they grew up listening to the station, or have a connection with a host you’ll find they want to be with you. I think it’s important though to show people we are invested in them while paying their dues. If we do that, they will stay. They have more options for audio than ever before. They’ll move on if we aren’t helping them meet their goals. Fortunately, digital platforms allow us to help them get reps and develop while paying dues.
For my formats, anything on-air generates as much interest as it ever has. However, I have seen a drop off in interest for behind the scenes positions. We have to be far more patient and dig more than we had in the past. I personally find this to be a good thing because once we find the right people they tend to have more passion for the job vs. it being a quick pathway to being on air.
In terms of introducing new talent, there has to be a reason or story behind the voice you are pitching. I can’t just pitch someone because I like them or their voice. Everyone I have put behind a microphone whether they are a radio veteran, new to the business, or transitioning from another form of media has always been well thought out and planned before pitching to bosses.
Good Karma Brands/ESPN Radio: It’s not that the younger demo isn’t interested. It’s that the people making decisions are afraid to develop, and take a chance in case it doesn’t work. I’m not sure why that is but it’s what I’ve seen when looking outside our walls. Now, am I seeing more of the newer members of our industry want to pay dues? Not necessarily but find me anyone that’s been in this industry for any amount of time that was patient. We’re all intrinsically anxious to get going on our ‘dream’.
That said, we need to be better at retaining. If someone is excelling behind the scenes and wants to learn how to be a personality, encourage it. Be creative with your approach in finding them reps. Encourage them to work on getting reps by themselves on social media platforms. Coach them when they ask for it. No one is too busy to take 5 minutes to give effective and real feedback. Just think about the loyalty you’re building by investing in the future. What’s the phrase, past performance isn’t indicative of future results? The industry is changing, and we have to adapt with it, not expect it to adapt to us.
I love when people take a risk on a new voice. Just know that it can’t be a short-term risk. Is it the same length it used to be? Nope. But it is important to take the time to let things bake for a window that you are comfortable with. The convincing you have to do of your boss to bring someone new in, is the minimum amount of time you should invest in with their time. It’s a mutually beneficial proposition.
Hubbard: It is REALLY hard to find young talent that has a passion for behind the scenes radio roles, and a willingness to make very little money and grind. We have a hard time finding part-time producers and board-ops to run live events, and generally hire non-radio people (social media producers, podcasters, etc.) and teach them how to run a board so they can be part of our staff. We do still need board-ops.
However, the idea of working on digital content is VERY appealing to young people. We receive far more messages from college-age students wanting to get into podcasting, create content on YouTube, etc. than I ever have from students looking to get into radio. I had multiple guys reach out in the last month wanting to help us with YouTube thumbnails and TikTok videos.
When it comes to paying dues, young people can just start their own YouTube channels now and get reps vs. grinding as a radio board-op and hoping the weekend host throws them a bone.
iHeart: We still have plenty of young folks interested in working in the industry who apply for our jobs. There are far more pathways these days for folks who strictly want to be on the air. Everyone now has the tools to do their own thing and build a brand themselves. But I think many realize how hard it is to truly build a big audience. So they find (and are probably influenced by mentors and parents) that working for a traditional media company is a wonderful experience and looks great on a resume. Having a steady income while gaining experience is also worthwhile to young folks. What’s great is they can work for a traditional company, gain valuable experience, develop important relationships, and still explore building an on-air brand on their own with their free time.
Keeping young talent can be harder though due to the going rate of what the industry pays. That is a bigger fundamental problem. We typically lose folks to other industries when the compensation matter is a priority. It’s less about them leaving to become a breakout star on their own. I just wish the industry paid more to keep highly motivated young employees invested in long term growth whether it’s on the air or behind the scenes.
Radio One: We’ve been lucky in our markets to have a steady roster of terrific producers and part-timers but it has gotten more difficult. I try to be up front and let them know that the on-air lineup is really tough to crack. We try though to give them appropriate opportunities to grow. In addition to hosting podcasts, they’ll get the occasional on-air opportunity on the shows they produce. As the hosts make them a part of the show, listeners are more likely to listen to them “step up” on the regular talent’s days off.
When we do have a rare opening, we’ve been blessed to choose from some very motivated, hungry folks. They are out there. However, many young people are applying for jobs that are above their experience level and talent. I do think there is a benefit to doing your own thing as you learn and grow. I don’t know that it’s any harder now to sell a new voice up top than it was 5-10-20 years ago. I’m always looking for talented people who can help deliver the bottom line of attracting listeners and advertisers. Ultimately, we’re looking for young, motivated, smart people who are willing to grow, put in the time and demonstrate a willingness to be a part of the team and its success.
Jason Barrett is the President and Founder of Barrett Media since the company was created in September 2015. Prior to its arrival, JB served as a sports radio programmer, launching brands such as 95.7 The Game in San Francisco, and 101 ESPN in St. Louis. He also spent time programming SportsTalk 950 in Philadelphia, 590 The Fan KFNS in St. Louis, and ESPN 1340/1390 in Poughkeepsie, NY. Jason also worked on-air and behind the scenes in local radio at 101.5 WPDH, WTBQ 1110AM, and WPYX 106.5. He also spent two years on the national stage, producing radio shows for ESPN Radio in Bristol, CT. Among them included the Dan Patrick Show, and GameNight.
You can find JB on Twitter @SportsRadioPD. He’s also reachable by email at Jason@BarrettMedia.com.
