Meet The Podcasters is a special 9-week series created in partnership with Point to Point Marketing. Our third feature is on President and Executive Producer of Dirty Mo Media, Mike Davis. Follow along with the series, and revisit former conversations by checking out the entire category.
A graduate of Georgia Southern University with a journalism degree, Davis founded Dirty Mo Media alongside NASCAR Hall Of Fame driver Dale Earnhardt Jr. He’s overseen its growth from shooting racing recap videos to one of the largest podcast hubs for NASCAR fans and followers of Earnhardt Jr providing insights and in-depth conversations unique to the Dirty Mo brand.
In this edition of our ‘Meet The Podcasters’ series, we explore the humble beginnings of Dirty Mo Media and how it’s translated to the audience since 2013. Also, how Davis made the difficult decision to leave his own role with their most popular podcast The Dale Jr. Download to focus more on growing the business from behind the scenes.
Mike Davis spoke with Barrett Media from the Dirty Mo Media headquarters in Mooresville, NC.
*Editor’s Note: Answers have been edited for clarity and length.*
John Mamola: Let’s go back to the beginnings of Dirty Mo Media. If could explain how the company morphed over time? If I recall, you were publishing some short video content to start and then you eventually built it into what it is today.
Mike Davis: The beginnings of Dirty Mo Media were out of a sense of obligation to a really big fan base to make Dale (Earnhardt) Jr and the world around him as accessible and as transparent as possible.
We were always blessed, the fact that Dale Jr comes with a lot of people that follow him and like him and really know a lot about his career. Back in 2009-2011, you get into that era where Dale’s on the back end of his career and the digital age was really sort of taken root. We had opportunities from a media standpoint to invest and do things through third parties. But there wasn’t a real good sense of control or impact in that.
There was a lot of the same stuff where Dale Jr does an interview or Dale Jr does something with somebody else in the reputable media. But then the story is told through them. We were looking at ways in the digital age of doing something ourselves and feeding a fan base. The sides of Dale Jr and the Junior Motorsports world around him that otherwise they just wouldn’t get from anybody else. That’s how the seeds were planted.
Over a few years, we started doing content. We started doing video series here at the race shop. To be honest with you, we did it horribly. We did not know what we were doing, and we don’t mind saying it. I’ve always said we were a company that doesn’t mind our owning our flaws and making our mistakes and being very public about it.
The fact is that’s where Dirty Mo Media started.
I believe we started The Dale Jr Download podcast without Dale Jr by the way. He was in the throes of his racing career. I was his road manager and then his brand manager with a sister Kelly (Earnhardt Miller). My job was to manage a calendar and a schedule It wasn’t to go make that more complicated. I wasn’t looking for ways to eat up more of Dale Jr’s time.
Starting Dirty Mo media in 2013, I’m sure we talked about it with Dale Jr. ‘m sure he knew about it, but he was not involved in it that first year. It was me and another guy, a friend of mine who was a local radio personality and still is a prominent guy at SiriusXM. At the time, that’s how we started Dirty Mo Media. It was really recapping Dale Jr’s races. That was our identity. Recapping races no matter where he finished, like a good transparent look into unpacking that.
Then a series of events created new opportunities, and they weren’t necessarily opportunities at first that we that we could recognize.
Dale Jr’s concussion, that was a pretty dark time in the in the story of Dale Jr. What it did is it opened a new opportunity for Dale to talk directly to his fan base about what was going on with his head injury. He was missing races. We didn’t even know exactly the extent of the injury. We had questions, so we knew that the fan base had questions. Eventually we realized we got this mechanism in which we’ve created, and it has a bit of an audience.
We told Dale we can tell this story ourselves, and you can talk directly to your fans. That’s what we did, and that’s where the next level up was. Where it’s, oh wait, Dale Jr can be quite eloquent in talking about himself better than anybody else can, myself included.
Who’s better to talk about what Dale’s feeling than Dale? He’s the only one that can. It turns out that this was getting towards the back end of his career, Dale started wanting to be more involved in the podcast and he was just naturally good at it. It just made too much sense.
When we started Dale being on The Dale Junior Download was our next kind of phase, and then we started adding shows that we felt represented our core values and the Dale Jr brand. Things that we thought were interesting for us, it’s not more complicated than that. What do we want to hear, and who do we want to hear from?
John Mamola: I worked in radio for 21 years and we always talk about owning the moment. When your local team wins a championship or goes to the postseason, it’s about owning the moment.
Being that the company started back in 2013 and then Dale Jr wins the Daytona 500 in 2014, obviously that was jet fuel for the company grow that much larger. Talk about how Dirty Mo Media capitalized on that moment?
Mike Davis: Amazing opportunity. So blessed that in 2014 not only did he win the Daytona 500, which absolutely was jet fuel, but he had four wins that year. He was partnered with a guy named Steve Letarte, who happens to be very personable and great for podcast. You had a very personable, talkative crew chief who had no problems unpacking any of his races, which they happened to be winning and doing quite well.
This was a resurgence in Dale Jr’s career after a pretty lengthy slump, and now he’s winning races again. He won not just the Daytona 500, but then he won twice at Pocono that year. He won Martinsville, which is a very cool and prestigious race.
Dale was back, so yes. We were riding this wave.
I’ve been with Dale since 2004. He won six races that year, and contended and should have won a championship. We kind of go through these peaks and valleys, and I realized. You take for granted when you’re in the throes of success in racing, or any sport for that matter. You take for granted these wins, or championships. But when you’ve gone through some pretty lengthy slumps, you appreciate the ones you win. You never know if you’re going to get them back.
So in 2014, I don’t know if this is it, but we like it as long as it lasts. It absolutely brought attention to the podcast that we were producing in a way that we just could not have replicated anywhere else.
John Mamola: Scrolling through the website and looking at the guests you’ve had on the podcast. Also, Denny Hamlin on the on the product now too. Some prestige names for the sport too. In your opinion, as the executive producer of the company, what makes a conversation with Dale Jr lean in type of listening?
Mike Davis: This is the thing we would have all lost bets on. To appreciate what you’re asking, you have to understand that Dale was an introvert for his entire life.
We would have lost the bet if you would have asked me 20 years ago if Dale Jr would be this conversationalist. Where people really get deep in talking about their feelings. Drivers don’t talk about their feelings. Athletes don’t talk about their feelings. They go to distances to not talk about that stuff. You don’t want to talk about your injuries, none of that stuff.
For a sport that is as dangerous as it is, they’re notorious for not going to funerals. Why? Because you don’t want to be reminded about the dangers that you’re facing every week. Then you throw in the fact that Dale’s an introvert and he just doesn’t like talking about himself, he’s very humble that way. How did he become such a conversationalist where people want to unpack their feelings?
To be honest with you, I’m not sure I know the answer to that. I just know that he has emerged as a good person to talk to. When I was doing the podcast with him for all those years on The Dale Jr Download, I would sit at that table with these guests, and would think what is going on here?
Before I got into racing, like when I was in college and high school, I was a NASCAR fan. I was in college when Dale Earnhardt died, and I was in college when Dale Jr went very famously back to Daytona and won the race. There was all this healing taking place and I see him and his teammates hugging and crying. It was an amazing moment.
I just assumed that the teammates and the teams are all talking to each other at the same time. Now fast forward to all these years later. What I learned is nobody’s talking to each other. Nobody’s helping each other grieve. A lot of the things that I see happening on The Dale Junior Download were conversations that should have happened years ago, but they’re just not wired to be talking like that.
Inadvertently, I wouldn’t take credit for this. We created a mechanism in which Dale Jr is comfortable talking in a long form format about things that could have been said or talked about years ago, but just never did. I’ve seen a lot of places where people have been waiting to tell Dale Jr their perspectives of situations that Dale may have been involved with, but they just never had a chance to talk about. It happened even this week. Yesterday we had Carl Edwards on the show. Dale Jr and Carl Edwards had a run in 2006 or 2007 where Dale Jr bumped him out of the way on a last lap. Carl notoriously came in there, grabbed him in victory lane and threatened him.
They’ve never talked about it until yesterday!
It’s like lightning in a bottle sometimes. A lot of people say that’s an amazing thing that you built. I didn’t build that. That’s a thing where Dale Jr becomes a good conversationalist, and there’s a lot happens to be a lot of untold things that needed to be said a long time ago that otherwise never happened and now it is.
John Mamola: Dale turned 50 back in October, his father unfortunately passed away when he was 49. How do you continue to keep Dale Jr motivated to keep going with the podcast even at the age of 50?
Mike Davis: When people ask me what’s your business strategy? My business strategy is to make it fun for Dale. If I didn’t make it fun for him, it’d be a pretty pathetic business strategy, wouldn’t it? Burnout and the fact that when you enter new phases of life. He’s got two young kids right now that he wants to spend time with. We very specifically make decisions that allow him to have that.
He has bought in so much to this company and to this whole platform. He’s really found a comfort level in it that it’s not hard to make it fun for him. What’s hard is to get him to take time off. The NASCAR offseason, while it’s short, it allows for you time during the holiday season to be off. Yet he’s focused on keeping the momentum up and we got to do this stuff.
Good problem to have, but we do try to keep it fun. Some of the battles that you might face on a day-to-day basis, we may intentionally keep that away from him. Let me deal with that. Let me take the fastballs to the head so that this continues to be a fun thing.
If there’s a guest on The Dale Jr Download, you can bet every dollar you have that that’s a Dale Jr wanted guest. If I started planting people who I wanted to hear, who I know would pull a big number, Dale can’t fake that. He can’t fake interest and it would chip away against the very thing that I’m trying to do, and that’s keeping it fun for him.
Simple things like that, it’s not complicated.
John Mamola: You’ve known Dale Jr ‘The Driver,’ and now Dale Jr ‘The Business Partner.’ How different is your working relationship, or is it similar?
Mike Davis: Dale, the business guy, is certainly more astute about the implications of good business practices. We are strongly benefited by the presence of a sister, Kelly Earnhardt Miller. She runs Dale’s businesses, and you can’t have a business conversation about Dale Jr without Kelly being mentioned. He would be the first one to tell you that.
When you talk about Dale Jr, the driver. When I started with him in 2004, he has already emerged as NASCAR’s most popular driver. We had Budweiser as a sponsor, we got to go to cool events. It was just a blessing to be a part of it, right? We became pretty good friends, but we’ve never been the type of friends where the business relationship was in any way undermined or jeopardized. That’s always been the forefront of our priorities for me and him. I wouldn’t work with somebody for as long as I have that didn’t have a strong sense of humility and understanding of their place. Dale Jr epitomizes all of that.
All that aside, to watch that guy race from a front row seat every week like I did. He was such a talent, so talented. It was an amazing opportunity for more than a decade for me to be able to watch that, even when we weren’t winning. Just to watch him race and to see how he impacts a large fan base every single week was just awesome. He was never impressed by his stardom, and that was also kind of an endearing quality.
Fast forward back to the ‘business’ Dale, his priorities haven’t changed at all. He still is a race fan. He always was and can now look at it from a different lens where he can appreciate things that otherwise he never would have appreciated because he just couldn’t see it from the driver’s seat. That’s been really kind of cool to see how he’s evolved.
‘Business Dale’ is as much fun, and I would even go and make the argument as impactful as the ‘driver Dale.’ Impactful more so in the media landscape, but just in the in the industry. He’s as influential impactful as he’s ever been.
John Mamola: The podcasting space just continues to grow and grow. Revenue continues to grow and grow. Any concerns on your end with your position with the company? Is the podcasting space getting too big? Maybe getting too big, too quick? Is there new ways to capitalize on how big the podcasting space is becoming with Dirty Mo Media?
Mike Davis: It’s getting more crowded every day, no doubt about that.
I think that I go back to why do you do it? Why are we in this space? A lot of times in this ever-crowded space where every single day there’s somebody new popping up with a podcast. Even media companies, they’ll come ask me for advice or suggestions.
I always kind of go back to the same question. Why are you doing it?
How they answer that will tell me right away if it’s going to be a fruitful or fruitless venture. I know why we’re doing it. Why we’re doing it gives me the confidence that I don’t care how crowded it gets. I know what our reasons for doing this are, and it’s not to just turn a huge profit or make monster revenues. I’m not saying we would turn it away. I’m saying is that we’ve got other reasons to do it. Maybe I’m naive but I’m unbothered.
I got a strategy, I have a vision. I don’t think that anything that I’ve seen around me is going to shake me off any of those things or deter me from what I think that we’re after. If people are grounded in that and know who they are, what their identity is and what their purpose is. You can evolve in the media landscape.
For instance, let’s just take podcast specifically. First of all, podcasts have gone through cycles for various reasons over the last 20 years. Podcasts at first were heavy audio, but these days a talk about podcasts you don’t even talk about it more as an audio medium. You talk about it as video medium, and there’s so many extensions to that.
We don’t even refer to them as podcasts anymore when we’re talking about them, whether it be in casual conversations or with partners. We just call them shows because there’s the podcast, video, and all different ways in which we produce these things. Podcasting will be like everything else. It’s going to hit waves and taper off at times. It’s going to go through cycles, but I’ve got to be honest with you. As long as there are stories to be told, and if there are perspectives to be heard. I think there is a place for podcasts.
I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface. Every day there’s a new perspective, and every day there’s a new thing that compels me. I could be naive, but I’m undeterred by all the noise and the commotion. I’m still looking for the stories that we need to hear and that I think my audience wants to hear.
John Mamola: Last year you signed a sales and distribution partnership with SiriusXM. Explain why that partnership was important to secure for Dirty Mo Media?
Mike Davis: The SiriusXM relationship is deeply important to us. We are all benefiting from that, and I think they are too. I think it’s a good relationship. We’ve learned a ton just in the first several months of the of the thing, so we’re still relatively early because we signed a multi-year deal.
SiriusXM is a monster company, they’re huge and they’ve got resources that I can promise you we don’t have in a race shop in Mooresville, NC. They call it “Race City USA,” but it’s not “Media City USA.” This is something where we have something to offer SiriusXM that they were interested in, they certainly are bringing a lot of heavy artillery to the thing for us. I I’m deeply appreciative of it, and we also like each other. I really like the Sirius XM people.
Listen, we’re an acquired taste. There’s a lot of people don’t know what to do with us, especially if they’re from New York or Los Angeles. A lot of our content and focus is just telling human interest stories. I don’t care if you’re in hockey or the Iditarod, there are stories to be told. There are human interest components that just that are good to hear.
I think what happened is SiriusXM understands us and understands that we have some compelling things to tell. Dale Jr moves the needle, so let’s not undermine or undercut that. I think we can start there, but you have to understand us a little bit. SiriusXM to their credit, for a company that is as big as they are, they have some fantastic people.
John Mamola: We mentioned the partnership with SirisuXM. Dirty Mo Media has video, podcasting, events, partnerships with BetMGM and FanDuel. You have your own line of merchandise. For you as the person spearheading the whole operation, what are key metrics that matter to you as far as growth moving forward?
Mike Davis: I’m learning every day, and the metrics change for us year to year. Most recently it’s engagement, let me tell you about engagement. I think if you go back to the fact that it’s a crowded podcasting space, we do aspire to be able to connect on a deeper level with our audience. Which is why that podcasting by itself probably does it to a degree, but not fully.
The merchandise tells a story, right? Everything about it is in a way to connect to our fans. The engagement metric is important to us, but in terms of growth? This may be the wrong answer, but I just go back to a strong sense of identity for us on why, who we are, and where we’re going. I’m not forcing anybody to listen to our stuff or watch our stuff. I think you have to relate to us in a way, or understand what we prioritize, or what we find as valuable.
You said the conversations between Dale and whomever he’s talking are informative. Well, not everybody does but there’s something for everybody. I’m trying to create a platform that does hit you somewhere that you’re trying to be and meet you where you’re trying to be. It’s not every one of my shows. If I can find one show that does that, I’ll consider that a success and consider that a growth strategy.
When I think about new shows that I want to put on our platform, that’s what I’m really looking at. Shows that I think can connect to an audience that otherwise I’ve not been able to reach yet. You know the opposite side of that would be just crowding it with a bunch of racing shows with a bunch of different perspectives. That doesn’t seem to really jive with what my strategic vision is.
John Mamola: This past January Dirty Mo Media went through some personnel changes, one of which was you stepping away from The Dale Jr Download. From your perspective, moving away from the download for the first time, and the planning, curating, and constantly thinking about content. How has that helped your role, where you’re currently at with Dirty Mo Media?
Mike Davis: It’s meant to everything, John. I’ve been wanting to be in a role where I can take a holistic approach to building a company and building a platform populating it with content that I think that represents our core values and the Dale Jr brand.
I’ve been wanting to do this for so long unimpeded. I found that The Dale Jr Download as big as it grew, it was preventing me from doing that. What happened is that I was doing neither very well.
I wasn’t growing our company or putting focus into the team of people, or the employees that I have. I wasn’t able to do that very well, nor was I being very good at The Dale Jr Download being a co-host of it. The way I would prepare for a show required a ton of time and attention like it did.
I never really talk about that. The fact is if you prevent yourself from giving what you think you need to do towards the show, I expect no different from any host that we have working for us. You better come prepared, and if you don’t you get exposed easily.
I felt exposed. I also felt like I was not doing the best job for either the download or its audience, or The Dirty Mo Media company and the employees. I had talked to Dale early in the year and told him that this is kind of where I was at. Obviously, I need to download to keep going, it’s still deeply important to us. I never did the download because I wanted to be on a podcast. I never once made the mistake of assuming my voice mattered that much.
I do think Dale Jr fans found value in it being that my proximity to Dale was compelling enough. In terms of where the delusion or download is now, which is really having strong perspectives on the state of the sport or the races and really unpacking it. I wasn’t providing a huge value in that area and therefore it was time. It was just time. I was there to keep it fun for Dale and tap into our relationship, but the fact is TJ Majors has the same, if not better, relationship. It was a pretty easy decision for me, and it’s one that I haven’t regretted at all.
I love talking about Dirty Moe Media. I love talking about the industry, and I love talking about podcasting. Now I’m able to go to places. We have a very important consulting agency in Los Angeles that I’d I rely on deeply. Now I have time to go do that without getting back to the show again. That just wasn’t helpful.
John Mamola: Final question for you. What’s one element about the podcasting space that you wish you knew earlier?
Mike Davis: I got advice early on from a very prominent podcaster. I sought out his advice when we were starting, and he told me something. I listened to him, but I wish I’d have done it more.
Know your identity. What is your identity? You should do that before you ever start episode one. Maybe we were a little guilty of this ourselves, but you start the show and say it’ll you’ll figure it out once you get going. That’s a mistake.
I think you got to know before you start what your identity is. Another way of putting it is why would somebody listen to you and not the million other options that they have What’s going to set you different? That’s not a great answer to your question because I did get told that early on. I’m telling you that’s the best advice I’ve ever heard, and it still holds true to this very day.
We’ve produced a ton of shows that we didn’t take that advice, now I don’t make that mistake. I will start a show that I know is a very niche audience, and it’s not gonna crash any servers by any stretch of the imagination. It’s not going to be your best performing, but I got my reasons to do that show. It doesn’t have to be in just downloads or listens or views on YouTube.
I’ve got reasons to start, and I know what the identity of that is, and I know what its purpose is.
I learned that lesson early on and I’m still putting it to practice every single day, and it’s still the best piece of advice that I would give anybody trying to start a show. Know what you’re about to do. You can figure it out in time, you probably won’t make it very far.
To learn more about Point-To-Point Marketing’s Podcast and Broadcast Audience Development Marketing strategies, contact Tim Bronsil at tim@ptpmarketing.com or 513-702-5072.
John Mamola is a columnist for Barrett Media. He brings over two decades of experience (Chicago, Tampa/St Petersburg) in the broadcast industry with expertise in brand management, sales, promotions, producing, imaging, hosting, talent coaching, talent development, web development, social media strategy and design, video production, creative writing, partnership building, communication/networking with a long track record of growth and success. Honored to be a five-time recognized top 20 program director in a major market via Barrett Media and honored internally multiple times as station/brand of the year (Tampa, FL) and employee of the month (Tampa, FL). Connect with John by email at John@BarrettMedia.com.
