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Both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have appeared on a plethora of podcasts in the run-up to the 2024 presidential election. And John Wordock, former Cumulus Podcast Network Senior Vice President and founder of his own podcast consultancy firm, believes it’s a strong signal that podcasts are here to stay as a mainstream media vehicle.
Most notably in recent days, The Joe Rogan Experience welcomed the Republican nominee to the show for the first time. In turn, more than 40 million have viewed the nearly three-hour conversation. Podcast download figures from Spotify have yet to be made available.
The 2024 race for the White House has been dubbed the “Podcast Election” by some observers due to the high-profile interviews conducted by the candidates. And in Wordock’s eyes, that’s a good thing for the industry.
“I think podcasting is not only having its moment in the sun, but that moment is here to stay for a long time,” said Wordock. “Because what we have seen with this presidential election cycle is the two major candidates trying to reach unaffiliated, uncertain, undecided voters, and they are turning to podcasting to do just that.”
John Wordock also doesn’t believe that it’s an accident that the major shows that each campaign have interviewed with have major followings on YouTube, in addition to strong podcast metrics.
“It’s not a coincidence that a lot of these major shows are on YouTube,” he shared. “Kamala Harris goes on Club Shay Shay. She goes on All the Smoke. And when you throw in Call Her Daddy — which put clips on YouTube and then ran the interview on Spotify, which is ramping up its video game, none of this is a coincidence.
“And then when you look at Donald Trump going on Joe Rogan — which had about 40 million views on YouTube — that is absolutely staggering. You throw on top of that Shawn Ryan and Theo Von, it’s amazing what the two candidates are doing using podcasting and using YouTube in particular.”
Despite all of the success and high-profile conversations happening in the podcast space, the John Wordock Media founder did note that there is some apprehension from those in the industry that an overreliance on YouTube and a focus shifting away from audio into video could be a problem in the future.
“That is the underlying current of tension. There are some in the podcast industry who are concerned that YouTube is massively disrupting the traditional RSS feed syndication route,” he admitted. “YouTube is trying to incorporate RSS feeds into its platform, but at the end of the day, there are audio purists out there who are going to remain audio purists. And they will not want to do video. So, I don’t see how they get convinced to do video. I think this tension will remain for a while as long as YouTube is out there, ruffling a lot of feathers.”
While some in the podcast industry can view their feathers as ruffled due to an increased priority on video, Wordock posits that the television industry, not radio or other audio mediums, is the one most affected by the rise of podcasts and digital video.
“I think — with the rise of video podcasts and the rise of YouTube — this also further signals the decline of TV news,” he shared. “Once upon a time, Tom Brokaw or Dan Rather, would have secured these interviews. Now, we’re looking at this entire next generation of interviewers and information gatherers, and they have made their mark.
“Shannon Sharpe, Shawn Ryan, Joe Rogan, Theo Von, Alex Cooper. It’s amazing to see how we’ve had this shift of where people are getting their information about a major presidential election.”
It’s difficult to project what the ultimate outcome will be in whether or not advertisers will be attracted to podcasts after the election cycle due to the notoriety of the conversations. But John Wordock says it’s unlikely that constant conversation about the medium will be a bad thing.
“I think potentially it will manifest itself with advertisers. Because what do advertisers want? They want to be associated with reach, they want to be associated with large audiences, and they want to get their messages out,” Wordock said. “So I think longer term, advertisers are going to be probably more inclined to want to have sponsorships for these shows.”
He added that while the candidates wanting to do interviews with major podcasts proves the legitimacy of the medium, it’s also likely the same thing for the advertising industry.
“Not only do all these interviews on these top shows offer a seal of approval for the industry, but they also offer a seal of approval for these big shows. So they had bragging rights now when they go to advertisers.”
At this stage in the race for the White House, most Americans are ready for Election Day to come and go, and to move on from the seemingly never-ending story. But John Wordock, a former Washington D.C. radio and TV correspondent who has met five U.S. Presidents, is likely in the extreme minority in that he can’t get enough.
“I must tell you that I am thoroughly enjoying this presidential election cycle,” he said with a smile. “I live here outside of Washington D.C., I’m a political junkie, and I’m a long-time podcaster. So this presidential election checks a lot of boxes for me.”
Garrett Searight is Barrett Media’s News Editor, which includes writing bi-weekly industry features and a weekly column. He has previously served as Program Director and Afternoon Co-Host on 93.1 The Fan in Lima, OH, and is the radio play-by-play voice of Northern Michigan University hockey. Reach out to him at Garrett@BarrettMedia.com.
