Meet The Podcasters is a special 9-week series created in partnership with Point to Point Marketing. Our fifth feature is on Head of Original Content with The Volume, Andrew Samson. Follow along with the series, and revisit former conversations by checking out the entire category.
Samson joined The Volume in September of 2020 after a call from FOX Sports Radio’s Colin Cowherd, who was looking to begin his own podcast network. The Volume officially launched in February of the following year, with Samson overseeing the programs on the network while also serving as the Executive Producer of The Colin Cowherd Podcast for the network. Prior to The Volume, Samson was a writer and producer for Cowherd’s program on FS1 before taking a venture with the XFL in 2019. The Volume has in just four years has grown to 14 podcasts on the network, a multi-year partnership with DraftKings, and more than 2.5 million YouTube subscribers across its channels with over 600 million audio downloads.
In this edition of our ‘Meet The Podcasters’ series, we explore Samson’s role with The Volume, the differences in content approaches between Colin Cowherd on radio and on podcast, plus in the age of social what makes for a good clip of a product to gain an engaging reach and a maximum click through.
Andrew Samson spoke with Barrett Media from his home office in Sarasota, Florida.
*Editor’s Note: Answers have been edited for clarity and length.*
John Mamola: Let’s start with what a typical day is like for you as the Head of Original Content for The Volume?
Andrew Samson: There are different avenues to this job every day. First is the daily supervision of all the podcasts. I come from a network background because I worked at FS1 where you have a program in calendar and there you’d have your four main shows per day.
Here at The Volume, that’s not how that works. We have 15 shows and growing. That requires a different type of supervision, and we’re also on so many different platforms. Personally, for me, I’m always looking at our YouTube thumbnails. I’m looking at our titling on podcasts, and on YouTube making sure that everything is optimized the best it can be to reflect what is in that video and that it’s framed in a way that’s going to have the most impact with the most reach.
What I enjoy so much is the process of yes, we make content, but our goal is to make sure that content is seen by as many people as possible. Implementing all the strategies we’ve learned that can make that happen.
John Mamola: I was going to say, you have shows that go live at all times of the day. The Volume has Nightcap with Shannon Sharpe and Chad Ochocinco which is live at night. Plus with Colin Cowherd trying to fit everything in between his other projects that he’s seemingly doing. I imagine that’s quite difficult to keep up with on a day-to-day basis.
Andrew Samson: For our company, it starts with the hiring process. Finding people who know sports, know how these platforms work, and understand how to optimize the content for the platform. That is where I think we’ve done a tremendous job, because I think all our producers are great. They’re so skilled and they can they basically are one person shops for everything that a podcast needs.
We are a company that’s operating on the frontier of what the podcasting world looks like. Where everyone makes video. Everyone knows how to create the content. Everyone knows how to distribute the content, and it’s very hands-on.
John Mamola: Looking at your background, you were with Colin Cowherd as a producer on the television side at FS1 previously before joining The Volume?
Andrew Samson: I started at Fox Sports One as a producer, and then in 2015 I was added to Colin’s staff. That was a life changer for me because I worked as a producer on The Herd from the TV side for four years. The radio side and the TV side, we worked get together in unison.
Then I moved to Florida, and that’s where after the XFL folded. I then got in touch with Colin, and he said to me that I’m starting this podcast network. Would you like to produce my podcast? At that point the whole world is shifting. The idea that you could produce a podcast in Sarasota Florida for a guy in Los Angeles was still kind of a newfangled thing.
I wound up becoming the producer of his podcast for three years and then became an executive type at the company.
John Mamola: Let’s talk crafting content and content strategy a little bit. Working with Colin on the television/radio product, and working on his staff each and every day.
When you come up with content for a radio or television product, I would imagine that there are some similarities, but also some differences when it comes to the product that you come up for the podcast. Can you speak to how there are some differences, or maybe some more similarities than differences when it comes to curating the content?
Andrew Samson: This is the greatest question, because this has been the story of my life.
The most fascinating thing I’ve witnessed over the past seven or eight years, and I’ve gotten a chance to witness this change from a very unique point of view. When we were working on The Herd, the excitement of that job was the morning meeting with Colin. You sit down at 6 AM, he comes in and has things he wants to talk about. You got to develop a whole show. Flesh out takes with stats and graphics completing everything by that 9 AM Pacific deadline when he goes on the air. At 12 PM, you know you worked straight from 6 AM to 12 PM and the show is over That’s it, and you learn from what went right and what went wrong that day to come back the next day.
When I got to the podcast side, I realize it’s actually the opposite. The linear side is about preproduction. Figuring out what you’re going to do before you go on the air. On this side it was more about postproduction. Colin and I would have a very quick conversation after he’d already have done The Herd, so he knows what he wants to talk about. Then he would get on, do a monologue, talk to a guest and that’s when my job started once the record ended.
Now it’s my job as the producer to propagate that video into the world. Find the social clips. Make sure the podcast is up in time and edited smoothly. Make sure all the sales markers are hit. Everything is in that 24-48-hour window after the record has happened. I realize that the choices that I make in that moment can either help or hurt the reach of that podcast. I need to make sure I’m making all the right choices. It was a long period, but I learned quickly what was working and not working. How to make a right thumbnail. How to find the right title of a video to make sure it gets the most eyeballs.
That is the biggest difference to me. Linear is preproduction, podcast is postproduction.
John Mamola: Would you say in your experience working in both radio and podcast, that the podcast consumer demands some different things than the radio listener when it comes to the product?
Andrew Samson: Yes, and that is a great point.
This is where I watched Colin invent his own podcast, I watched it happen. Colin said to me when he started the idea for the podcast, ‘I want this to be more authentic, raw’ feel. Almost had this idea that he would be drinking a cocktail during the show and it would be different. Then I watched as he delivered his monologue, and how he was in the podcast. This basically became what I started to call Colin Cowherd Unplugged.
Colin basically found a way where he said ‘Yes I’m going to be on the herd. I’m going to be creating that content, but I’m also going to be creating this different type of content.’ It’s going to have its own unique voice, and its own unique look. Even when I had to choose the music, I found a baseline and a drum and that was it. No over-the-top music, no high key melody. Just something very subtle, and over time we built it out into this very different thing. We’re Colin can occupy the space and give his audience something different than he’s giving them on The Herd.
That’s what I think podcasts are. You know, podcast and even podcast production is a very intimate type of format because you’re there with the host and there’s not a lot of bells and whistles. Sometimes there’s not another host.
Nightcap is its own thing where you’re watching a conversation between two NFL legends, and that’s got that comedic energy and it’s unreal. Then there’s the podcast form with Colin where it’s very straightforward and very direct. Just straight, good informative conversation and I think that’s what the magic podcast is. It can be so reflective of the host’s personality. What the host wants to do, and it doesn’t take a lot from a production angle.
In fact, the less you do in terms of all these things, the better it is because it’s more authentic and real. Nick Wright, what I love about that is he’s in his home. He’s recording from there. You get to see the side of Nick that you don’t normally see on the air.
John Mamola: You just referenced Nick Wright, The Volume just brought his podcast over to the platform earlier this year. How involved are you with recruiting talent, or is that more in the lane of Logan Swaim, The Volume’s Chief Content Officer?
Andrew Samson: That’s more in Logan’s lane.
John Mamola: Understood, but I also wanted to ask about the addition of Rory And Mal, which made a splash because that’s more of an entertainment type of podcast as opposed to a sports specific podcast. They tend to dabble for lack of a better term in sports, although they do have fun with their bad takes on sports.
In your opinion, should sports podcasting networks branch out more like The Volume which is sports first and sports centric, but pivots a little more into entertainment content to reach a broader audience?
Andrew Samson: That’s a great question. In my position, Logan (Swaim) will send me a podcast and he’ll say listen to this and just tell me what you think. I get a lot of those requests every week and I love taking the time to listen.
Rory and Mal was the one where I was just like, wow! This is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard in my life, that was like another level. To me, it was like when I first heard Howard Stern for the first time. It was so funny, so honest, and they’re so willing to talk about literally anything. That blew the doors off for me.
I think Logan (Swaim) and I realized, along with Matt Kline our head of digital and Alisa Harrison our head of production that once we had the systems and understanding of how YouTube, podcast, and social platforms work, we didn’t necessarily need to stick to sports. We could use those same strategies to work in other areas.
What we found is they do work. I don’t want to give too much of the secrets sauce away. Once you understand that a successful podcast benefits from being in the moment, talking about what’s happening now just like they do in sports; then you can use those same strategies successfully.
John Mamola: You spoke about finding those clips in the postproduction, and having those to assist in increasing metrics for how a podcast performs.
How successful the clip is on social, and the click through rate listening to the full product is important on several fronts. A lot of talent feel when it comes to podcasting, they just do the podcast and nothing else in postproduction. Where you’re explaining that everybody on The Volume roster knows how to do everything, which is great.
When it comes to finding those clips from the podcast, is there a strategy in aiming for the best three clips, or maybe get one per podcast episode? With social becoming more of a friend to video but not necessarily links, how vital is it to identify those clips to achieve the best engagement possible?
Andrew Samson: We tell our producers not to force it. We don’t want to just put out clips for the sake of putting out clips. We want to make sure that when we put out clips, there’s a reason we took the time to edit that. That we think this deserves to be in front of an audience.
We always say to our team if there’s an hour-long podcast, shoot for three to five clips. But if it’s the greatest podcast of all time, then mine it for all it’s worth.
As far as the editing goes, what so great is that these platforms like TikTok and Instagram have finally taken away that restrictive sixty seconds limit. Now you can be so much more freeform with what you want to do, and what you want to put out there. Especially with shows like Nightcap where there’s extended conversations that are so funny and raw. Just put the conversation out there, and don’t worry about cutting it down so much.
If it’s a Colin or a Draymond (Green) take, this thirty to forty second, if that’s the nut then make that thirty seconds. It doesn’t have to be three minutes, just get it down.
The other thing that we love to do is we really think it’s important to find the elements that help that take resonate. If someone mentions a specific play from a game or player, just going out of your way to put that added context for the viewer so they know what we’re talking about. It makes the clip more engaging and just brings everyone into the conversation and allows them to understand what this is.
The most important thing with social is the rule of having three seconds or five seconds to lock in. It’s figuring out not just what is the clip, but where does that clip start? What is that hook for the viewer? What is going to get them to stay past that three second point? That is something we are always focused on.
I watch a lot of clips from around the whole business, and I’m like that was a great clip if you would just cut off the first ten seconds. If you had just jumped in a little faster, you would’ve gotten that engagement.
John Mamola: There has been a lot of discussion about video versus audio when it comes to podcasting. Obviously playing in every space is important, and The Volume has done a great job of this with every podcast on the platform utilizing a video component. Video is becoming the dominant source for people discovering podcasts as opposed to audio first.
In your opinion, maybe in three to five years down the line, do you see audio podcasting usage fading where video becomes the heavy and dominant way people consume podcasts?
Andrew Samson: No, because I think that people will always want different ways to consume this content. Especially for sports, what makes it so great is that there are different ways to consume it.
I’m someone who grew up on the tradition of you’re in your car listening to sports talk, and that’s what you’re doing on your drive. I don’t think that will ever go away. I think that it is one of the greatest places to listen and catch up on what’s going on. I think it’s great that you wake up in the morning and there’s a podcast you can listen to.
I really believe that when a host sits down in front of that microphone or in front of that camera, that host should be able to make content that can be seen everywhere. There should be no limits on the reach of that content, and that is why the audio side will always be important and the video site has become more important.
We say this to everyone who comes to The Volume. We say that our goal with you. You sit down and you can know your content is going to be distributed as far and wide as possible. To me that is the power of The Volume. I mean, that’s why The Volume is such a great name.
We want to make sure you’re heard loud and clear everywhere.
John Mamola: Not sure you’re aware of this or not. Six years ago, Colin Cowherd joined the BSM Summit and made a lot of headlines with a comment he made about podcasting. Colin said that basically no one gets rich off podcasting. He didn’t believe in it, and podcasting was none of his concern as it related to his focus with The Herd.
Six years later, here we are. You’ve been with Colin for a while now. What makes the evolution of his views on podcasting unique now compared to then, and with that said, can there be The Volume without Colin Cowherd?
Andrew Samson: You’re asking me a question about one of the most influential people in my entire life.
John Mamola: I would love to hear your perspective, as a guy that has worked with Colin for years, on how his mindset has changed about the podcasting space.
Andrew Samson: No one I’ve ever met knows how to evolve better than Colin Cowherd. That’s something he definitely taught me. He always says I am willing to pivot on and off of everything, and he’s never beholden to any kind of way of doing something.
He’s so willing to change, and I watched that on The Herd for those four years.
The show where it started and where it ended up when I left was a much different show. It had evolved. I feel the same way with The Volume too. From where we were in 2020-2021 to where we are now, it’s a totally different, smarter, more efficient, more knowledgeable company.
Alot of that is Colin’s leadership and understanding, and being open to new ideas and new shows. Expanding the business outside of sports, and that for me is what I love about this business. It’s never one thing, it’s always changing and you always have to be looking for new ways to do things. New methods of recording, distribution and so on.
I’m not surprised that Colin came around and changed because and I know that about him. He is very good at reading the tea leaves and seeing which way the wind is blowing. Knowing and understanding the industry and knowing which way it’s headed.
I think that’s why The Volume has been so successful. We all have been willing to change and move off things and reevaluate how we’re doing business. That’s a constant conversation just to make sure we are not getting outmoded and we’re always looking ahead.
John Mamola: But does The Volume survive without Colin Cowherd?
Andrew Samson: I don’t even know how to answer that. I personally can’t survive without Colin Cowherd. If it wasn’t for Colin and being on The Herd, I don’t know where I would be right now. That guy changed my life. I can’t imagine the world without him.
To learn more about Point-To-Point Marketing’s Podcast and Broadcast Audience Development Marketing strategies, contact Tim Bronsil at tim@ptpmarketing.com or 513-702-5072.
John Mamola is the sports editor and columnist for Barrett Media. He brings over two decades of experience (Chicago, Tampa/St Petersburg) in the broadcast industry with expertise in brand management, sales, promotions, producing, imaging, hosting, talent coaching, talent development, web development, social media strategy and design, video production, creative writing, partnership building, communication/networking with a long track record of growth and success. Honored to be a five-time recognized top 20 program director in a major market via Barrett Media and honored internally multiple times as station/brand of the year (Tampa, FL) and employee of the month (Tampa, FL). Connect with John by email at John@BarrettMedia.com.
