The Industry According To….Elliot Segal, DC 101

Thank you for checking out ‘The Industry According To’. This series runs each Tuesday, and features radio and record industry executives, managers, programmers, talent, artists, and professionals from all areas of the business world. To be considered as a future guest, email me at keithblackboxgroup@gmail.com.

Today we hear from a quiet legend whom all in the industry should know but some don’t. That’s because over a 25-year career of doing mornings on a big brand in the nation’s capital — he’s chosen to simply let his content and presence do the talking instead of chasing headlines and sound bites. He’s Elliot Segal, member of the Radio Hall of Fame and host of Elliot in the Morning on DC101 in Washington, DC and WRXL/Richmond.

So, let’s dive in.

The Long Game

Keith: You’ve built a rare career by staying in one city, on one flagship brand, with various owners, for a very long time — while most air talent are chasing call letters by their mid ‘30s. What do the chasers misunderstand about the benefits of staying put and building something for the long term?

Elliot: When I left Z100 in 1999 (a good move for both me and Z100) and came to DC/101, my whole mindset was, “I have 2 years to make this work. I’m going to do this my way to make it work. If I fail – I fail. But I don’t want to blame anyone else if it doesn’t work out.” And I’ve had that mindset ever since.

So, while there have been other opportunities that have presented themselves over the years, in very appealing markets, they all came with restrictions that I thought would be detrimental to what I believe in. By no means am I saying that I wouldn’t modify the show for specific opportunities, but I wouldn’t make wholesale changes “just to get a cool job.” And while the idea of moving to a new city is always alluring, I never discount how much I love my current situation and how great DC is. The freedom to do “my show” in DC and Richmond is greater than wanting to move. Now, if I get fired and have to start over, I would have to find a new starting point with new parameters, but my mindset would remain the same. 

I look at syndication the same way. When I was syndicating the show into ALT in New York and WNNX in Atlanta, I modified the show, but would not make wholesale changes. Jeff Sottolano and Mike Kaplan in New York, as well as the programming team at Cumulus, were on board. Unfortunately, within a year, both stations changed their formats and direction, and EITM was cut.

My point is, I believe my show has been successful for very specific reasons, and I am not going to “just change it” in hopes of chasing syndication. I own my own syndication. I charge for it. And I won’t make the drastic changes that I have had presented to me in order to grow the show: do it for barter, pre-record segments and send them down the line, create multiple clocks so each station can format the show, pre-record local sounding breaks to give yourself a more local sound… and on and on. Not for me.

I have had been told “Why would I pay you? I can call Premiere, get Show X for free, and give up a couple of spots, which really aren’t worth much right now anyway.” I’ve been told, “You need to send breaks so that XXXX can play 6 songs an hour. Or 4 songs an hour.” I just don’t believe that is what makes EITM successful in both DC and Richmond. We do one show for one audience, no matter where they live.

Like I said, I will modify the show. We did for Richmond when they started 20+ years ago. We did for New York, and we did it for Atlanta. We’ve included content from both markets and aired callers non-stop from both markets, mixed in with callers from DC and Richmond. We still do with listeners that have remained from New York and Atlanta. It was one big audience all experiencing, interacting, and being part of the same show. That to me is live syndication. But that is my mindset, others see it differently and do it differently, and that may work for them.

The Washington Effect

Keith: DC is a unique city — power, politics, diverse audiences, a global stage of sorts, and a large quotient of high IQ listeners. How do you think hosting a show in DC is different from most places in the country?

Elliot: Washington DC is definitely a unique city. So is Richmond and every city. I feel like, if you do your homework, study each and every market, you find out not only what makes it unique, but you find that is what makes it special. Sure, you have a lifestyle in DC that doesn’t exist anywhere else, but that is what allows for a unique experience.

My show is, and always has been, very interactive and very phone heavy. Having people in those unique positions – working at The Pentagon, The State Department, The White House, staffers, contractors, interns — allows voices from those sectors to be heard. It adds a great element to the show. I love diversity, it is what makes people unique. I want everyone to be a part of EITM. If you listen to the show, I am definitely not the smartest one in the room, but I am very curious by nature. I want to talk to everyone.

Avoiding Fame

Keith: You’ve never chased industry press or awards, which is rare for talent. Has that been intentional, and what are the benefits of staying out of the spotlight for you?

Elliot: I don’t think it’s intentional and I don’t know if there are benefits. There are a lot of things our industry does that I really don’t agree with or like, so I don’t think I’m sought out for comment. I don’t seek it out because I’m not really looking to get fired, so maybe that’s the benefit. 

As for chasing press or awards, I really care about one thing: radio. I love radio. I’m so happy to get to be a part of radio. I respect radio. So, I want EITM to perform at its best. That is what I chase. 

I will say though, getting into the Hall Of Fame was huge, but mostly as a way of honoring people. That moment, to me, was about honoring the people who have been huge influences and instrumental in my success. To stand on that stage and be able to thank John Lander and Scott Shannon, program directors like Brian Philips and Steve Kingston, and people who have been supporters and mentors like Sam Milkman and Thea Mitchem. To be able to thank my show: Diane Stupar, Tyler Molnar and Krysten Warnes for their work and effort every single day was a privilege. Finally, to be able to thank my wife and kids for their support every single day is what really made that day special. I also got to meet Jonathan Brandmeier, which was amazing.

I would have never accepted going into the Hall on an “audience vote”. I’m not knocking anyone who has gotten in that way. I just don’t have it in myself to ask a listener to vote for me. There are some that gave away t-shirts for votes. I can’t do that. Maybe that’s why I don’t chase anything. 

Relevance Without Reinvention

Keith: Many shows try to reinvent themselves every few years to stay fresh and relevant. Full facelifts or constant reinvention haven’t been at the top of your priority list, but how do you know when it’s time to shake the show up a bit?

Elliot: The show evolves naturally over time. Or it should. EITM is not the same as it was in 1999. Or in 2005, and on and on. And it is not the same show it will be 10 years from now. If you just went back and listened to a single show from 20 years ago, it would be “wow, they’ve changed.” But if you listened along the way, it has evolved. I think it has to evolve. If we are not evolving, we are not growing.

That is true of life, that is true of morning radio. Diane has been with me since Day 1. Tyler has been with the show for over 20 years. We have people who have listened since we started. And people who have joined along the way. I just think that shows don’t have to reinvent the show or change out members to keep it fresh. But, the work ethic and effort have to continue and the ability, and open-mindedness, to evolve has to exist. 

Just Noise

Keith: You follow industry stories and news — what is the industry obsessing over today that matters far less than it’s made out to be?

Elliot: Before I answer this, let me stress, I am just a disc jockey. I’m not a CEO or the head of programming sitting in a meeting with the CEO. I am a disc jockey. That said, I think we, as an industry, focus more on the output more than the input. The output is important, and I’m not suggesting it is not. I understand the importance of being able to dive into research and see and track who is listening where. Where the heaviest listener or listeners may be. I understand that getting a meter on the app is more valuable than over the air. I look at the research and love seeing it. And, as an industry, we are obsessed with it. But I wish we focused more on the input. The day to day programming.

I talk with so many market programmers who are frustrated with talent that don’t put in the work. I know talent too that don’t put in the work. There are a lot of stations that essentially run on auto-pilot, and not just in very small markets – which I also think is inexcusable. I, personally, don’t care how anyone listens. I don’t care if they listen through an actual radio, the app, stream on a computer or smart device, I don’t care. Listen however you want.

I care about what they are listening to. Make the product good, and be thankful that someone is listening. That goes for the talent, production, stopsets, and the stream. Make the station a good listening experience. I stream stations on the app, and for how important we say it is and how we promote it, at times the listening experience is horrible. I would start with the input. 

Tech & Ratings

Keith: With iHeart as a parent company, I know you’re well-versed on tech and new content distribution strategies — but what about ratings? As a veteran talent with your track record, do you watch ratings closely? Do they influence how you approach your show or are they just something you check after the fact?

Elliot: Let me start with the iHeart piece. They have done a great job being at the forefront of a lot on the technology side. The app is great in that it changed the way people can listen. The fact that they created a way for people to literally take us anywhere in the world and listen is a true credit. 

As for ratings, of course I keep an eye on them. But, for me it starts with my gut and my ears. Constantly reviewing how I feel about the show. Does it sound right? Are we doing the right things promotionally? Are we keeping active enough? And so on. As for numbers, I do look. Even with all the warts, Nielsen is what we have. And, it can, and does, have an impact on us as talent. It is the scoreboard. It can determine someone’s employment, pay, and an entire station’s existence. I don’t live and die by weeklies, but I absolutely keep an eye on them, in both DC and Richmond — or wherever the show has been on. But, I will also stress, they do not have a big influence on how I approach the show on a short-term basis. 

Distrust in Media

Keith: You’re a trusted voice in the nation’s capital at a time when distrust in mainstream media is high. From your perspective, what builds audience trust and how is it lost?

Elliot: This is a hard one, because I don’t really focus on it. I think I learned at an early age from both Lander and Shannon, that the goal is to build the biggest audience you can. My goal has always been to be inclusive to almost everyone. If you want to listen to a morning radio show, I want it to be EITM. I don’t care if you are a man or woman. Old or young. White, black, Asian, Hispanic, anything. I don’t care if you are blue collar or white collar or if you love or hate politics. I don’t care if you are straight, gay, or what your preference is. Everyone is welcome to listen and interact.

Some people hate me and hate my show — I know that. I remember a research company at one point selling themselves as being able to “find the needle in the haystack” – meaning they could find singular target listener in an area and then focus in on them and trying to get them to listen. I remember telling them, “why don’t we get the entire haystack.” I’m sure they went on to be part of the people who hate my show. But I do believe that gains trust. It sounds very rose-colored glasses, but EITM has an honesty about it — good and bad — which I hope comes across. 

FCC Rules

Keith: It occurred to me that members of the FCC, maybe even the Chairman, can listen to your show live on their way to work in traffic. Having had your own FCC encounters, is it time for the FCC to relax some rules so FM broadcasters can be aligned and more competitive with other media? If so, what would you change?

Elliot: Yes, FCC members can, and do. And yes, I have definitely had my own “FCC encounters.” Michael Powell was definitely not a fan during his term. But, I don’t know what I would change. Would it be fun to say whatever words I want to say…. probably. And if the FCC said, “Here is a new list of words you can’t say,” we would find ways to say them in another way. But I have never felt that I am handcuffed because I can’t say “fuck.” Maybe context versus words would be different. I do think everyone should be able to talk about whatever they want.

I have never felt like there is anything that EITM can’t approach. But, some people will always complain. And, in my case, that person listening could very well be working at the FCC, or running it. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I don’t feel like being able to use foul language really changes the content. That still comes down to how good the talent is. But, I would also be lying if I said there aren’t some days where being able to just say the damn word would make the story better. 

Your Best Advice

Keith: A young talent walks into your office and says they want to be the next Elliot Segal. What’s the best career advice you can give to a young and talented personality who wants to excel at morning radio for decades?

Elliot: I am lucky. When I was younger, I got to learn from Lander and Shannon. And I had some great PDs. I am also lucky in that both Lander and Shannon had some not-so-great great PDs and General Managers. From John and Scott, they worked hard. They had high expectations for themselves, for the show, and the stations they were on. They didn’t look for short cuts and they worked hard. The same was expected out of me. It became second nature. I never wanted to let them down, not out of fear, but out of respect. But, I also got to watch them deal with not great PDs and GMs and learn from that. 

I remember Lander tell me something in Philly… “never do it for the money… be successful and the money will come.” I moved to Los Angeles to work at Pirate Radio for less than $20,000. That was not chasing money. 

And that gets me back to something earlier… being told that if I completely changed the show, and did it in a way that I did not believe in, I could be syndicated and that comes with a paycheck. It’s just not for me. 

Lastly, there are no days off. Being allowed to do morning radio is work. It takes effort. It can be a great living that comes with a lot of perks… but if you are not willing to put in the effort and do the work, every single day, don’t do it. Don’t take it away from someone else. 

2050

Keith: What will morning radio look and sound like in 25 years — if it still exists? Will shows still be doing Florida News and War of the Roses? Will it be humans?

Elliot: Morning radio better exist in 2050. And I fully believe it will. There is no telling what morning radio shows will be doing then, but I hope shows that are doing “War Of The Roses” and “Second Date Update” are not still running the same ones they are airing now. I know plenty of shows that are running the same “scripted and recorded bits” from 5 years ago, but pretending they are still new. But, like I said earlier, evolving and growing are essential for any show, as well as any format to thrive. But whether it was 25 years ago or 25 years from now, talent and content will still be the most important part of radio. 

Your Biggest Win

Keith: What’s the big win your most proud of?

Elliot: I’m not sure if I have a biggest “win”. I have plenty of things I am proud of dealing with EITM. I’m proud of how we’ve handled situations in DC like 9-11, the DC Snipers, and other serious stories. I’m proud of the work we have done with, and for, The National Center For Missing And Exploited Children, as well as my involvement in the annual Secret Service – FBI charity hockey game. But I am equally proud of our ability to go in every morning and put on what I believe is an appropriate show for the day. We put a lot of work and effort into the show, so I am proud that no one on the show mails it in or takes a day off. 

Nickelback

Keith: For the record, I’ve never hated Nickelback and think they’re allergic to writing bad songs. But they became one of the most entertainingly polarizing bands in rock history. YOU are in their “Rockstar” video.  Have anything to say about that?

Elliot: Of course you don’t hate Nickelback. No one does. They may be polarizing, but people still know the songs, and if and when, one comes on, everyone knows all the words. And I’m not just saying that because I’m a Montreal kid.

The Uncomfortable Truth

Keith: If there’s an uncomfortable truth about morning radio or the radio industry in general that everyone needs to hear, what is it?

Elliot: This is a very hard one for me to answer. I love radio and want to remain employed. In my opinion, there are several big uncomfortable truths, and I don’t think I’m alone in that belief. I believe radio is the greatest form of media. It can be immediate, emotional, and interactive. It can be funny, serious, educational, silly, ridiculous and a best friend. Radio can build a large community capable of helping one another. There is nothing it can’t do, if we let ourselves do it.

Radio needs to respect its listeners and respect itself. Everything I do, I try to put the listeners first. Is this good for listeners? Everything else falls in line behind that. EITM has great business partners and sponsors and advertisers that I really enjoy working with. But, nothing is more important, to me, than the audience. I don’t take listeners for granted and don’t try to take advantage of them. I just want them to listen and enjoy the show. 

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