WFAN’s morning and afternoon drive time shows both finished second among New York-area stations in the spring ratings quarter, with substantial leads over their sports talk competition at ESPN New York.
In the key demographic of men ages 25-54, Boomer Esiason and Craig Carton averaged 7.4 percent of the audience in the period March 27 through June 28, behind only the music station Z-100 at 8.3.
ESPN’s national morning show with Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic finished 11th with a 3.5 share in New York.
Mike Francesa’s afternoon program averaged a 6.8 share from 1 to 6:30 p.m., behind only Spanish-language music station WSKQ-FM at 8.2.
During the hours in which Francesa competes head-to-head with ESPN’s Michael Kay — 3 to 6:30 p.m. — Francesa tied for first place overall in the demographic with WSKQ at 7.0. Kay was 10th at 4.3.
Kay usually trailed Francesa by more than a 2-to-1 ratio during ESPN’s years on 1050-AM, but his ratings and ranking have improved since the station switched to a better signal at 98.7-FM in the spring of 2012.
WFAN’s ratings include both its AM and FM outlets.
For more on this story visit Newsday where it was originally published
For the past 10 years, if you’ve watched TNT television you likely heard the channel’s slogan “We Know Drama“. It’s a tagline in my opinion which was simply brilliant, because it reflected the channel’s programming choices. If you turned on TNT, you’d find either a movie, game or original program, and when you analyzed the content of that particular show, you’d find that it often included some form of drama which helped it fit perfectly into the channel’s strategy.
The slogan was introduced in June 2001, and at that time, former TNT General Manager Steve Koonin said “TNT’s promise is to engage the hearts and minds of our viewers with dramatic programming that offers a powerful combination of compelling stories and interesting characters, mixed with excitement, action, suspense, romance and humor. TNT’s slate of original movies and series, theatrical product, acquired series, championship sports and live event specials will deliver on this consumer proposition.”
Judging from what the channel featured during the past 13 years, they not only lived up to their promise, but viewership increased, and today it remains a strong presence in cable television. Clearly the interest in dramatic content was there, and TNT didn’t try to reinvent the wheel, they simply satisfied the appetite of those who were hungry.
Take a look back at this classic TV commercial created around the 2003 NBA Playoffs. TNT featured Spike Lee to sell the message and the result was a very identifiable spot which was easy for viewers to relate to.
When it comes to sports talk radio, I’ve heard numerous executives over the years refer to the format as the ultimate “soap opera for men“. In some ways, it’s hard for me to fathom that the world of sports could be mentioned in the same sentence with “One Life To Live” and “General Hospital” but when you step back and think about what the world of sports has to offer on a daily basis, it makes perfect sense. The presentation has shifted from x’s and o’s discussions and box score breakdowns to sports-bar conversations centered around personalities and teams. Coincidentally the ratings, platform distribution, and advertising dollars are all experiencing some of the highest performance levels in the format’s history.
So why is it that people keep seeking out sports media content?
The answer is simple, they love drama!
Case in point, look at these headlines below which were posted within the past week on different media websites. All 5 are written about one of the most popular and polarizing basketball players on the planet, LeBron James.
As you look at these 5 examples, one word should stand out in defining what each story is about – Drama!
LeBron James, Pat Riley to meet
LeBron James has a Dwayne Wade problem
Cavs working to clear max space to land LeBron
Cavs explain why they took down Dan Gilbert’s letter to LeBron James
LeBron’s inner circle, including his wife, want him to sign with Cavaliers
Regardless of where you go to get your sports news, you go there because you’re curious, and emotionally engaged in the content. Whether you realize it or not, you’re lured in by the drama of the story. LeBron James right now is the NBA’s real life version of the Truman Show, and we’re all sitting back watching, listening, reading, and reacting to every piece of news, and deciding what’s best for him, his family, his future, and each team that wants him. It’s a classic case of media outlets feeding us drama, and each of us devouring it, and asking for seconds.
When you finish your show today, I want you to step back and reflect on what you presented to the audience. Look at each of your segments and what the conversation was built around. In most cases I bet you presented a question based off of a certain subject, and with that question you provided your opinion/answer to it. That my friends is called selling the drama!
If you weren’t doing that then I’d ask you to reassess your content, and figure out what you want your audience to sink their teeth into. If you have no hook and no drama in your presentation, than chances are you’re filling air time with no true purpose. By doing that you’re asking your listeners to standby while you figure it out, and they don’t have time for it. Your audience wants to show up and have you distract them from the everyday pressures they face by providing them with compelling and entertaining content. If you can’t do that, they’ll find someone who can.
Remember this, your audience isn’t turning to you because they want to know who won last night’s game, what Player X’s batting average is or how many of the next 10 games their favorite team plays at home vs. on the road. They can get that stuff by clicking on any sports website. They’re also not coming to you to hear how many phone calls you can take during the course of a 3-4 hour show. The only person keeping count of your caller totals is you and your producer.
They will though listen to a passionate discussion between a host and a caller provided there’s a question or angle being discussed, and they do appreciate information as long as it’s used to advance the angle you’re presenting. In a nutshell, information and filling content time doesn’t earn you an emotional investment from your audience – your ability to deliver a compelling discussion and unique opinion on the story that matters to your audience does.
Whether we like it or not, people today care more about Johnny Manziel’s off the field behavior than any of his studying habits or practice throws. They know Carmelo Anthony’s free agent suitors better than the NY Knicks roster that he played on last season. They focus more on who got snubbed from the All-Star game, and how playing in the game could impact a player’s second half performance, more than they focus on the actual game itself. Every listener fancies themselves as a GM with solid knowledge of what each player makes, what each team spends, the length of each player’s contract, and how it will help/hurt their favorite team in the future.
Why do all of these items above matter to people? Because they’re dramatic, and they create thoughts and emotions inside of every one of us. These are feelings that can’t be turned off or brushed aside. Whether it’s joy, frustration, love, hate, passion, confusion or something else, the more people hear about it, the more interested they become, and the more they seek resolution and additional facts to our conversations, the more we invade their minds and cause them to think and feel. The more we do that, the better our chances of keeping them listening.
For an on-air talent, you are constantly selling drama to your audience because it’s the one ingredient that makes your show special each day. Nowhere on the planet can your show be duplicated. While the same stories may be discussed everywhere else, your personality, perspective, creative elements and delivery of the information keeps you unique.
However, your audience has distractions being thrown their way every day, so the only way to cut through the clutter and permanently rent space in their head is by using drama to your advantage. They want to take the roller coaster ride with you, and experience your ups, downs and in-between’s. It’s your job to keep them hanging on every word and sentence.
A colleague of mine (Jeff Schmidt) sent this to me months ago and it instantly connected with me. Take a look at these two stories below and look at the headlines. The story on the left is presented by Deadspin.com and the story on the right is presented by ESPN.com. When you look at the headline of each story, which one contains more passion and suspense?
In my opinion, Deadspin used words to stir an emotion with the reader while ESPN focused on the facts and delivered a neutral headline. While the approach for both brands may be different, they both make sense. However if this were a sports radio segment, you’d hook a lot more people with the drama of the Deadspin headline than you would with the ESPN presentation.
Think for a second of how this relates to you. Your listener is either in a car or listening on a computer or mobile device and on each of these platforms have multiple choices. In most people’s phones there are 25-50 apps readily available to take them elsewhere, or if they’re in a car they have the option of FM/AM radio, a CD player, possibly satellite radio, or some other electronic device that they can connect to their dashboard and listen to. In either case, you’re already battling for an individual’s attention before you even get started.
If you’re lucky, you’re one of the first places the listener turns to because your brand/station has built trust and loyalty with them, or they’ve formed a connection with you or another on-air personality. From there, it comes down to picking the right content and manufacturing the drama in the most unique and entertaining way to keep them engaged.
Pick the wrong content, and they’re gone. Pick the right content, and present it in a safe and predictable way, and they’re gone. Select the right content, and construct enough angles and unique viewpoints to keep the listener wanting to take an emotional journey with you, and you’ve got a fighting chance.
Try it out when LeBron James finally signs with a team. I guarantee you’ll hear every station discuss the story, but the place where you’ll spend the majority of your time listening to it, will be with the outlet and personality that advances the story, and best captures and sells the drama and suspense and drama.
There is no better example of capturing drama than when you go to the movies, and spend 15-20 minutes waiting for your featured movie to start. Once those previews hit you know you’re immediately sucked in. For example, watch this trailer of the upcoming film “When The Game Stands Tall“. By the time the trailer is done playing you’ll know the focus of the story, the drama that occurs, and the question being asked that must be answered. The result, you’ve given Sony Pictures 2:44 of your time, and soon enough you’ll be spending your money to go watch it because the story drew you in.
Whether it’s a movie, a sporting event, an argument between co-workers or a sports talk radio show, people have a passion for drama. They seek it out and remain consumed by it, and that’s not going to change anytime soon. Don’t believe me? Check your Facebook feed or Twitter timeline. It’s happening every second of every hour.
Sometimes a slogan doesn’t make any sense for a brand, but in the case of TNT they created something which fit like a glove, and they delivered on that promise to perfection. That’s an example of effective research, smart strategy, and consistent execution. When you do those things right, you win consistently and grow continuously.
To wrap this up, I’ll leave you with one shred of evidence that’ll make you re-think whether or not you can afford for drama to not be a central part of your content focus each day. Currently when you look at the best performing sports radio stations across the country, the average amount of time spent listening is usually between 3-4 hours per week M-F 6A-7P. These stations also deliver somewhere between 5-10% of listening among Men 25-54, and that by industry standards is considered a pretty strong success.
One though could look at it the other way, and argue that your core programming which you pay top dollar for and promote heavily, is consumed for only 36-48 minutes per day out of a 780 minute window, and in your market, 90-95% of Men 25-54 don’t listen to you.
Now how’s that for drama!
Yes we can talk about the issues with PPM, we can blame things beyond our control such as signal issues, play by play events, lack of marketing, etc. but in every one of those scenarios, we’re emotionally invested in the subject and we’re ready to defend, explain and engage in the conversation. That my friends is what drama does.
TNT figured out how to capture the mind and eyes of the viewer,nand there’s no reason why sports radio can’t do the same, and capture the mind and ears of its audience. If ever there was a business built to understand and sell drama, it’s sports talk radio. If it can be done right, who knows, maybe one day we’ll present a brand new slogan – “We Own Drama“.
In the city of Houston there certainly isn’t a problem when it comes to finding an entertaining sports morning show to listen to. “The Proper Gentlemen of Sports” features Lance Zierlein and Adam Clanton and together they’ve been patrolling the airwaves of SportsTalk 790 since August 2013. In less than 1 year the show has experienced strong ratings growth including holding the #1 spot during the February 2014 book. For Zierlein it was the 4th time in his career that he’s had the highest rated morning show in the Houston market, a feat even more impressive when you take into account that he’s done it at 3 different stations.
When I’ve listened to Lance in the past there were a number of things that stood out that I believe make him successful at what he does. First and foremost, he’s got a passion and understanding of the NFL that’s impossible to ignore. Having grown up in a football family with a father who’s coached for over 30 seasons in college and the NFL, it’s easy to see why football is a big part of his life and a strong focus on his show. Read his website The Sideline View and you’ll see just how much time and effort he puts into studying the pro and college game. Now combine that football obsession with a fan base which cares deeply about the Houston Texans and you’ve got a winning combination.
Secondly, his quick wit and ability to be a natural smart ass makes listeners react both positively and negatively and that shows an ability to stir emotions and connect with an audience. On one particular day I listened in as Lance and Adam presented what they titled “The PGS Programming Survey” where listeners could call up and discuss what they loved or hated about the show and sports talk radio and after hearing one caller explain how he wanted less entertainment on the show and more “hot takes”, Lance and Adam instantly flipped the switch and turned into wide world of sports-like anchors delivering a very old-school style presentation that would bore today’s audience to tears. It was laugh out loud funny and it’s that type of quick thinking and ability to have fun on the air that keeps Lance’s audience engaged and curious. To hear it click here.
Last but not least, Lance is not afraid to take a stand and deliver some riveting rants (click here for his passionate rant last season on the Texans) yet he’s also quick to feed off the energy of the room and break into one of his many known characters and leave the room in stitches. His impressions of Jon Gruden, Wade Phillips and Phillip Rivers are outstanding and he’s also a master at creating characters such as the SEC guy and Communist News Network Spokesperson among others. Check out this video and you’ll get a better idea of how Lance brings his Wade Phillips impersonation into the on-air discussion.
I had the pleasure recently of reconnecting with Lance and we discussed his approach to entertaining, how he determines what’s most important to his audience and some areas of his game that he believes can still get better. Enjoy!
Q: If I asked a Houston sports radio listener to sum up the “Proper Gentlemen of Sports” by using 3 buzz words what would they be?
A: Entertaining, Energetic and Unique
Q: How do you determine which content gets featured the most on the show? Is there any research you use that supports why you go in a certain direction?
A: We visit with our PD and he’s able to monitor which show topics hit nerves with listeners through our PPM trends. By tracking individual shows – especially the ones that have seen spikes – we’re able to trust in the data and have a greater understanding of what hits with listeners in terms of “A” topics. As for the “B” topics – which are often the differentiators in ratings success if you do those topics well, they come from show prep on a variety of non-mainstream sites (Deadspin, Big Lead, etc.) and they’ll make their way onto the show when things start slowing down.
Q: When you listen to other local or national sports radio shows what draws you in and what sends you away?
A: What draws me in is spirited debate between the hosts or topics/angles that are unique. What drives me away is mindless topics that make me feel like the hosts are putting it on cruise control or when hosts have bad chemistry. If what I hear on the radio doesn’t sound like a conversation or banter I might hear between two or three people in a sports bar or sitting on a couch in someone’s living room, then I probably won’t stay for very long.
Q: What is the most difficult part of your job?
A: I think one of the most difficult issues that I deal with is remembering that topics aren’t old to listeners just because I’m getting bored with them. Listeners are joining my show for the first time that day throughout the morning so staying disciplined and making sure to continue to hit the primary topics is something that can still be difficult. If I’m getting bored with a topic, I have to be able to either find a new angle to the topic, or come up with a segment that allows me to have fun and be creative before getting back to headliners. It’s like having my own recess but in the middle of a segment.
Q: How often do aircheck yourself or listen to audio with your PD or show unit?
A: I don’t aircheck myself as often as I used to. When my PD airchecks us after the show, it is usually not a good thing because that means he’s getting ready to make a point. I think airchecks are essential in the formative years for a host and they were very helpful for me at that time. To be honest, I should probably do it more often than I do right now.
Q: Over the years you’ve developed a ton of characters and included them in your show and they seem to have connected well with your audience. What is the hardest part about creating a character and what advice would you give to someone who’s trying to add that type of creativity and fun into their show?
A: The hardest part about creating a character is finding the right voice and personality for the character that will allow the character to become memorable for listeners. I also feel like it is important to create quirky characters with over-the-top personality traits so that layers can be added to the character and storylines can be fleshed out. When listeners feel like they are “in on” the bits, they become more loyal listeners. These characters become something they can share with their friends either over the phone (‘hey did you hear what happened on the show today?’) or via podcast links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjf_skDzbmA
Q: How often do you involve characters in your show and how do you decide what’s enough, not enough and/or too much on the show?
A: I like to let the character involvement happen organically. I don’t like to be forced into doing the characters or I feel like it becomes more forced than fun. I will be doing SEC Guy or Gruden or Philip Rivers during the football season but will only bring them out on rare occasions outside of football. Often, I will just see an opening for a character to call in and I will literally dial the hotline on my cell phone as I’m leaving the studio towards the hall. I’ll conduct my call from the hall and then hang up and jump back onto the show. Program directors and other hosts have wanted me to do these character much more frequently but I try to be cognizant of not doing them to death and over-saturating the listener.
Q: Having ascended to #1 in the ratings in your time slot, what are you doing different today then you were doing 5 years earlier that’s helped you have success?
A: I was #1 in my time slot five years earlier at another station so I will change the question. What am I doing differently now than two years ago? I would say the key to my ratings re-emergence has been getting back to doing unpredictable, entertaining radio. There is an artificial ceiling on shows that follow the same script and formula each day. Once I decided to take the lead and trust my own instincts and talent rather than trying to just blend in and do what others were doing, it all clicked for me once again. Your advice to take the lead played a big role in the way I started approaching the show. I’ve always done fun, memorable shows that rated well but I got into a funk for about 3 years and was being bounced from show to show and I’m finally locking in on doing what I do best once again.
Q: Having established a strong brand in your market, which area of your game do you believe still needs improvement and how can your PD, Producer and Co-Host help you in the process?
A: There is no question that my interviewing skills need so much more work despite the time I’ve put in on the radio. I can ask good questions and I can transition from topic to topic effectively with a guest but I take entirely too long to ask the questions sometimes. The best way a PD could help me is to simply pull an aircheck of when he hears me going long with questions.
To learn more about Lance’s morning show on SportsTalk 790 in Houston click here. You can also discover more information about Lance himself by checking out his website The Sideline View or by reading up on his wikipedia page.
If you’re a basketball fan then you’ll likely remember what occurred on May 7, 2014. On that day, current ESPN NBA Analyst Mark Jackson was let go as Head Coach of the Golden State Warriors despite producing a 121-109 record and back to back playoff appearances for the franchise for the first time since 1990-1992. Mark had shown an ability to connect with his players and get the club to play defense (which had been a foreign word before his arrival) and in a business which is measured by results, Jackson had clearly demonstrated he could deliver them.
So if the results were there and the trust with his team on the court was sound, why on earth would a change be made? Warriors Owner Joe Lacob answered that question during the team’s press conference that day and while it might not have been a popular response, his words spoke to a situation that every single one of us in the broadcasting business face each day, yet likely forget. Lacob was quoted as saying the following:
“Managing down, managing to his players, obviously a pretty good job. Most of his players seemed to really like playing for him. They played hard for him. Which is really important in the NBA. I think if you asked him, I think he would realize–maybe give him some time to answer this–that he probably could do a little better job of managing up and sideways, is the way to put it.”
Let that sink in for a second. Jackson in the opinion of the owner had delivered on the court and with the people he’s responsible for managing but he hadn’t built a connection with the one individual who signs his paycheck and ultimately helps decide his coaching fate.
Now I’m not raising this point to suggest you should find out the number of your CEO and call him or her tomorrow and I’m not telling you that campaigning outside of your PD or GM’s door is a good idea either. I’m also not suggesting you should start offering up silly compliments or do things out of character which will cause others internally to refer to you going forward as “the ass kisser”. The point here is to help you think for a second of how “managing up” applies to you and your position and which people inside your organization you need to spend time with the most so you can do your job better, earn bigger responsibilities and make your life easier.
For example, how many times as a Board Operator or Producer do you forget to ask your PD for feedback on a topic you built, a feature you tried out or a slick piece of production you created? Do you really think your PD is watching how you ride your levels on the board when you’re taking a show into a break? Do they know every phone call or email you send to land a guest when you produce a talk show? Here let me answer that – NO! They trust that the training they’ve put you through and the feedback they’ve given to you is going to help you do the job the right way.
How many times as a salesperson do you forget to share a good or bad piece of feedback from a meeting you had with a prospective client with your Sales Manager, PD or GM? Heck you’re out there trying to get someone to invest in your sales story, don’t you think the people inside your own building want to hear why it did or didn’t work and offer you some feedback? Take it one step further, how often do you go through your sales pitch with a peer? If you can get them excited about your presentation, doesn’t that make you feel more relaxed and confident when you get in front of a new business or ad agency? If done well they’re likely talking in the halls to others about how good your presentation is and how they plan to copy parts of it to help them with a similar situation.
And it’s not just on those levels either! Promotions Directors, do you take the time to tell your story to your PD, Sales Manager, GM or anyone who will listen when you create a great promotion or an on the street event? Are you sending out a photo or video recap of your promotions to let everyone in the organization see and feel that something exciting is happening and you’re the one behind it? Do you think most inside your building know the lengths of what you go through to make the radio station fun? Most of the time they see you as the middle person blocking them to the PD or Sales Manager or they think you just coordinate putting the street team at a public location. Is that their fault or yours for not understanding how you benefit the brand?
Maybe you’re buried in the production room creating all sorts of cool imaging that jumps through the speakers and brings the radio station to life yet nobody has an idea that you’re the mastermind behind it because they never see your face or your name in their inbox.
The bottom line, this is something we all face on a regular basis and whether we like it or not, managing up is always a part of the game. Whether it’s GM to CEO, PD to GM, Sales Rep to Sales Manager, Producer to Host or any other position inside your organization, you’ve always got to share your story because otherwise you run the risk of people not knowing how valuable you are or even worse, they tell the story for you and that’s never a good thing.
Let me share a quick personal experience of when I learned how important managing up is. 10 years ago (yes I’m old, I’m aware) I produced the show GameNight on ESPN Radio and I was having a blast working with John Seibel, Doug Gottlieb, Freddie Coleman, Sean Salisbury, and the countless other guys we’d have step in across the country. While we were doing some fantastic shows, the reality is that we were on the air 7 nights per week from 7p-1a EST and most bosses at ESPN were likely home with their families or at work and wishing they didn’t have to be. That’s not to say we didn’t have some great people paying attention because we did but the amount of attention paid to GameNight versus Mike and Mike or the Dan Patrick Show was very different and rightfully so.
While everyone involved with the show was focused on doing the best show we could, it dawned on me that while the content may be great we still need to let others know how we were improving. If the goal was to one day be good enough to help a show like Mike & Mike, Colin Cowherd or Dan Patrick, we were going to need to push ourselves more and ask for feedback from those who were helping coach those other 3 great shows.
I took it upon myself to start sending out a note each week to everyone involved with the show (which might have taken the crew the entire week to read) to recap some of the positives and some of the areas where we needed improvement. We’d also create an action plan for the upcoming week and go over roles for all involved with the show so we all had something to be working on to help create a great show. I’d then talk weekly with my manager Dave Zaslowsky about where I thought we were making progress and where I needed some coaching help with the crew and I’d pass along some audio examples to help support my positions. After he’d review them we’d do an aircheck session with the hosts to go over it and discuss how to get better next time on-air.
Then last but not least, when we’d introduce something new on the program or if we did something that I felt needed an extra opinion, I’d share it with our leader Bruce Gilbert to see what he thought too. As one of the best minds in the business I valued his input because I knew it would make us better and I wanted him to be aware that I cared about the show and everyone involved. When you know you have people working hard for you on every single shift it makes your job as a leader so much easier and a lot more fun and I wanted Bruce to know we were always going to be on top of things regardless of what time we were on the air.
I felt very uncomfortable reaching out at first because here I was running the night show after battling for 8 years just to get in the door at ESPN but I trusted that he’d recognize I was only trying to help us be better and as long as I didn’t bombard him with too much I felt I’d be alright. Well not only was it welcomed but it was that communication that helped our relationship develop.
In each one of these situations I was managing up. Whether it was taking a leadership role with our on-air talent, bringing in the support staff to give them feedback for how they could help the show, sharing audio with my manager to get him involved or reaching out to the top boss to gain an additional perspective. By doing so it showed everyone I was invested in the show and everyone’s growth and it showed my superiors that I was coaching my crew and always striving to get better to help us deliver a better product and hopefully better results.
Now some people in this business may have the opinion that they don’t have time to sell their work or seek out feedback and in some cases that may be true. There are certain on-air personalities who are outstanding on the air and might not want to spend the extra time discussing or reviewing their show. Much like a professional sports team, you have to manage each personality on your roster differently.
That being said I’ve yet to see an on-air personality deliver a 100 share in a market and I don’t know many who don’t like the idea of generating more income for themselves so in my opinion there’s always room to have conversation. I’ll tell you this, most personalities and agents certainly know how to manage up when it comes contract time so doing it during the rest of the year is not impossible.
Where I believe this really matters and makes a big difference though is for those folks inside your organization who are doing the dirty work to help the product perform. From sales to production to traffic to producing, if you’re doing good work sometimes you have to remind people of what you’re excited about and what you’d like some feedback on to get better. You’d be amazed at how valuable that little bit of time spent can benefit you in the long run. In some organizations when you fail to do those kind of little things it can create a much bigger divide, even if your results are good. If you don’t believe me just ask Mark Jackson!
At 44 years of age Daryle Johnson is living the life he only imagined living. In April 2012 he was announced winner of the Lucky Break contest for 95.7 The Game. Johnson, known as the “Guru” is a sports fanatic and native of Union City, Calif.
The Lucky break competition featured 150 contestants who were evaluated weekly, on an assignment to deliver the most entertaining sports subject, similar to American Idol. After years of persistent sport call-ins, he has gotten his foot in the sports entertainment industry. His game time ambition has lead him to a victory.
Johnson signed a 1-year contract with 95.7 The Game back in 2012, which included a cash reward. He renewed his contract this year; the program director was pleased with his skills and asked him to stay. Over the past two years the “Guru” broadcast increased the ratings for this show.
The main job of a host is to come to the studio early to organize and prepare their opinions about local and national team levels. Johnson is responsible for covering baseball, football, basketball, and hockey.
“It’s a job, and it’s not just shouting into a microphone. I was blown away at the prep, which this job entails. It is amazing to see how prepared one had to be to have a great show,” said Johnson.
Johnson credited his love for sports to his father Norman Johnson. As a boy he was intrigued by three major sports. “He would take me to see the A’s, Giants, Warriors, 49ers, and Raiders games. I was then a sucker for sports,” Johnson said.
Radio host Zackariah Slenderbroek gave his kudos to Guru for renewing his contract. “He was good enough that he’s still there and getting regular air-time,” said Slenderbroek. “That’s not because of the contest, that’s because he has talent.”
Johnson had plans to pursue a psychology degree, but realized sports were the only topics he was enthusiastic towards.
“After going to college and not really being passionate about anything other than sports I prayed to the Lord that somehow I could get a shot to get into the business,” said Johnson.
As he approached his mid 20’s he listened and paid close attention to various sports hosts, and studied their techniques. “Stephen A. Smith is my favorite sports host, he is professional well spoken and a role model,” Johnson said.
Johnson had confidence and believed he could be a potential sports host, but felt he lacked a strategic plan to achieve his goal. After realizing he needed a better approach to jump-start his career, Johnson became a regular sports caller. He would call several radio stations, national and the Bay Area.
“One day I looked at my iPhone and had 10 text messages. After reading the texts from different friends telling me this is my big break, I had to enter. At this point in my life I was kind of ho hum,” Johnson stated.
If it was not for his friends encouraging him to enter the contest, he admits he would not be on the show.
For the rest of the story visit The Pioneer where this story was published
This past week I was fortunate enough to be able to lead a group meeting inside the Oakland Raiders facility. I’ve been inside this building a number of times in the past and one of the first things I noticed and really appreciated was the attention to detail inside the location. From the carpets to the walls to the doors and to the frames that accompany every picture, there is a steady stream of white, silver and black and you can’t help but feel the connection to the Raiders franchise. It’s impossible not to recognize how much of a lasting impact Al Davis had on this organization.
On this particular day I had an opportunity to share the stage with Head Coach Dennis Allen. Dennis is heading into his third season and this is the first time since he’s been charged with leading the group that he has an actual team with some talent and some salary cap flexibility. To say he’s optimistic and excited about the club’s future and upcoming opportunities would be an understatement. During this meeting though I wasn’t interested in learning whether or not Matt Schaub would rebound from last season’s disaster in Houston or if Justin Tuck would re-discover his dominant pass rushing skills. What I was curious to find out was how building an organization in the football business compared to building a foundation in the radio business.
One of the great things about working inside of the sports radio format is that you can often come up with plenty of parallels between professional sports and what you do fairly regularly and when Coach Allen began talking many of the things he discussed struck a chord with me.
First Dennis was asked about creating a vision and getting people to buy in and what changes and what stays the same throughout all three years. His answer was right on the money. He said that while people’s abilities and attitudes may change and rosters will be adjusted the one thing that can never change are your beliefs in what you stand for. When Dennis talks about the Oakland Raiders he defines the player’s he wants on his team by four characteristics. To wear Silver & Black one must be Smart, Tough, Disciplined and Passionate. There is no compromising when it comes to these qualities if you want to play for Coach Allen and the Oakland Raiders.
Now Dennis will be the first to tell you that just because you check all four of those boxes doesn’t mean you’re going to stay on the field playing for the Oakland Raiders. You still have to have talent and fit inside of a financial structure and be open to coaching and getting better but just to get a look you must possess those traits.
The second thing that jumped out to me when Coach Allen spoke was his understanding of what his responsibilities are and how it impacts his future. In a business full of insecurity Dennis was very secure with himself because he knows that only one thing matters at the end of the day – winning. Dennis summed it up by saying “I’m in the winning business. We win and we all benefit from it. We lose and change is inevitable”. When he said that I couldn’t help but think about how it relates to the radio business. While I’d prefer to play a football game and know for sure that I couldn’t beat the other team, the Nielsen ratings game is the one we all play and fair or unfair we’re at the mercy of what the audience consumes most. It’s fun to work in sports radio and we are lucky to be able explore something we have a strong degree of passion for but we still are involved in business and it’s one that is measured by ratings performance. Like it or not, if you’re in radio today you too are in the winning business!
The final thing I’ll touch on was Coach Allen’s response when I asked him what he looks for out of an interviewer and what he’s hoping to accomplish during an interview. While Dennis wants to be treated with respect just like anyone else, his true interest in the conversation isn’t to please the fans listening or the host he’s talking to. The real purpose for his discussion is to send a message to his team. Coaching in the NFL is a tough job and everyone is always looking for an edge or a way to connect with players and when you have 53 men on a roster with very different backgrounds and personalities it’s tough to get through and spend enough time with everyone. However when the Coach speaks about his team every single guy in that locker room takes notice and whether Coach is pissed off, happy, disappointed, hurt or distant with his responses, the reality is that it’s well orchestrated in his head and every thing he utters has a purpose behind it.
That’s important for the interviewer to recognize too because sometimes we have expectations for what we want out of a guest and we do everything in our power to direct the discussion a certain way and generate responses that will satisfy our audience and ourselves but when someone is going to send you down a different path you have to understand that there may be additional reasons for it. Obviously we can’t compromise our questions and turn the floor over to the guest and let them steer us wherever they want us to go but at least when you head into a conversation and know the true meaning behind it, it allows you to create a game plan to help you be more effective.
To wrap this up I’ll highlight what I saw as the key takeaways. Some will apply to you and your business and some may not but in most cases you can see how radio and football intersect. While we both may enjoy that we get compensated for our labor of love, it still is a business and each is measured by one important word – winning!
Stand For Something – Your Core Beliefs & Values Should Be With You Forever
You’re In The Winning Business – It’s a Results Oriented Business; Win or Else
Know How To Reach Your Team – Have a Message and A Purpose For Each Situation
There’s an old saying when it comes to marketing a sports radio station “fish where the fish are“. For sports stations there’s a distinct advantage compared to other formats when it comes to trying to attract new people to sample the product. You simply promote your brand at stadiums, on television during game broadcasts, on popular websites and social platforms that are sports focused and on trains or buses that are going to be visibly seen around the locations where sports fans travel. I’m sure there are many other examples I could provide but you get the point.
So if placement is so simple then why doesn’t the marketing always work? Well the answer is different for each situation. Sometimes the creative just isn’t good enough. Other times it can be that the campaign wasn’t long enough or didn’t have any call to action behind it. The other reason that I believe is equally as critical is whether the message you’ve built your campaign around is in line with what your brand stands for.
Last year, my former station decided to do some marketing to try and further grow the brand. In the video sample below you’ll see that it’s pretty straight forward. We could’ve gone with a funnier spot or did something more outside the box and shocking that may have created a stir in the marketplace, but instead we took a simpler approach and focused on showcasing our people and what they were best known for.
That may not always feel as cool to those involved in the creative process, but when you’re battling for people’s attention I believe the most important thing you can do is provide something that gets them to take notice and can be executed on your airwaves.
In the video above the station focused on 4 personalities and the traits that made each of them unique. Passion defines what Damon Bruce brings to the airwaves. Insight is what Ric Bucher has provided during his 25+ years of covering professional sports. Access is what Greg Papa has more of than anyone in the San Francisco market and Game is a play on Aubrey Huff’s 13 year career in the Major Leagues and the swagger that he brought to the former morning show.
The station also wanted to illustrate that the crew have fun and enjoy being around one another because when it comes down to it, listeners want to feel like they’re attending a party with their friends on the radio. The reason I thought the spot worked was because it was a fair representation of who the talent were as individuals, and what the brand stood for, which made it easier to live up to audience expectations.
In looking at some other marketing examples, I noticed some different tactics which I also believe work effectively. Case in point this TV ad from Arizona Sports 98.7 FM. In this piece the radio station is trying to generate buzz for their switch to the FM dial and the use of different team graphics and the positioning of words such as “Insights and Opinions, Insider Access and the Biggest Games” all reflect what the station is able to provide once the listener checks out the product. Very short and sweet and absolutely effective.
The one thing I caution folks to avoid when marketing their brands is creating a position that isn’t a reflection of what they actually deliver. For example, you can tell the general public your station offers the most controversial personality on the planet, and they will stop by to see what the buzz is about, but if they turn on the radio station, and find Bob Costas hosting the show instead of Howard Stern, you’re going to piss a lot of people off because you’ve provided false advertising.
Risk taking is fun, and being creative keeps us all sane and invested in the concepts we create, but sometimes simplicity and showcasing your best assets in a way which is consistent with what you do and who you are is more important. It’s also more effective.
No better example of doing it the wrong way comes to mind more than the defunct football league, the XFL. It was the year 2000 when this league was created by WWE’s Vince McMahon and the marketing suggested that the league would be edgier, harder hitting, sexually graphic and much more extreme than the NFL.
The first game featured on NBC drew a huge 9.5 TV rating so one could say that the marketing didn’t do what it was supposed to, which was to get people to tune in and discover what the league was about. Except there was one major problem – the entire country showed up and came away with the same opinion – it was really bad football and not an accurate portrayal of what they were promised in the promos.
As a result, ratings dropped 60% from the first week to the second week. They then dropped another 40% the week after. A few weeks later, the league would become responsible for generating the lowest rating for a prime time program on a major network in television history.
Due to being rejected by the audience, the league folded after 1 season. The lesson learned was that you can lead a horse to water but if the water is dirty they’re not going to drink it. Here’s a sample of one of those XFL promos.
To summarize, here are my 3 key takeaways. Start with these simple rules and you’ll be on the right track to doing some smart and effective marketing to help your brand.
Don’t Promise Something You Can’t Deliver On
Keep Your Marketing Message Consistent With What You Stand For
Fish Where The Fish Are – Focus On Standing Out In The Right Places
Every day in the sports talk radio universe we find ourselves examining which stories to talk about, which angles to focus on, which guests best fit our subjects and which hard hitting opinions will elicit the strongest emotional response from our audience. One thing that sometimes gets lost though in the process is how production can factor into the daily plan to enhance the presentation. Over the past 10 years we’ve witnessed a strong number of sports radio stations migrate to the FM band which forever had been known as the destination for music. So if music is what people have come to expect on the FM band then doesn’t it make a little bit of sense to utilize the two together?
When it comes to the sports format we often see that a number of stations compete for the all-important demographic of Men 25-54 with classic rock, alternative rock and modern rock radio stations. In some markets you’ll even see Top 40, CHR and Hip-Hop enter the mix. When you dig deeper you find that many of your listeners whether they’re hardcore or casual fans, also spend times with music brands. They’re clearly telling you that they have other interests beyond your brand of content and when they’ve received what they need from you, they’re going to seek out other forms of entertainment. This is where opportunity comes in.
I believe the feel, sound and entertainment value of a radio station is critical. The messaging should capture the feel that the radio station is fun and in sync with what’s relevant in society. When it comes to music I want titles which are more current or popular over the past 10 years and I often look for them to be up tempo and instrumental. That’s because I want the pace to always be moving forward and because I want my hosts to be heard clearly without having to battle vocal harmonies and loud screams. Listen I grew up on Led Zeppelin, ACDC, Black Sabbath and Bon Jovi and some of those bands songs will always be cool to me but if the sound of your brand captures the feel of what mattered 30-40 years ago then I believe you’re at an instant disadvantage because the cool-factor of the radio station is gone.
When older titles from 30-40 years ago are featured it makes people feel old and out of touch plus the style of what you’re showcasing is targeted to the latter part of your demographic which makes you sound like “the older sports station for adults” versus the fun, hip sports station that is built for today and tomorrow’s audience. It can also damage your on-air personalities because it makes them appear out of touch even if they’re not. As a rule of thumb I believe the goal should be to connect with the 32-35 year old male. If he knows about it and thinks it’s cool, then that’s what should be on the radio station. When a popular movie comes out on DVD and I know it’s been well received by the public and people are using quotes from it in daily conversation then that’s something you should be looking at to utilize either in your shows or promo production. If a popular artist is coming to town, bumping into a segment with some of their tunes/intro beds or using one of their hooks for a creative rejoin makes you sound slick. It tells people you recognize what’s happening and you’re focused on satisfying their tastes.
One other area where production can be extremely helpful and at times even critical is when it comes to launching a new personality in a market or a brand new talk show. When change happens listeners immediately put up their guard. They want to often know “why was the other show removed, who’s this new personality, why should I listen to him/her and what’s this new show about“. Until the show hits the airwaves and an identity is understood, the only preview comes in the form of production via coming soon promos.
One brand that truly gets this and does an excellent job at it is the WWE. You don’t have to be a fan of professional wrestling to understand the concept. Simply put, their creative team develops a character behind the scenes and creates promos to capture who the character is. They then air those promos for weeks leading up to the wrestler’s debut and by the time the individual appears, the audience usually has a grasp on who they are. It’s about creating hype and interest and the WWE does it extremely well.
Case in point watch this video below. This is the promo for a group called “The Wyatt Family” which features a guy named Bray Wyatt as the deranged leader of a twisted cult. At the time this promo was launched the audience had no familiarity with the trio. As of today they’re one of the most popular factions on WWE programming. This is an illustration of great character development, strong production, consistent marketing and crisp execution.
Now some stations place little emphasis on the sound of music, production and relevant audio drops and that’s their choice and many have success doing it that way so there’s definitely more than one way to skin the cat. For yours truly though I’d rather play to the strengths of what I know the local audience is currently into rather than tell them to take what I give them or get lost. The reality is that we all like music, movies, comedy and sports and when a station can deliver great sports content and surround it with a presentation that’s youthful, fun, fresh and entertaining then you stand a better chance to connect.
To wrap this up I’ve attached a few audio samples below which will illustrate some easy ways to make people feel connected to your show/station better. I’ve shared these philosophies with numerous producers and hosts over the years and many have taken advantage of it to help improve their programs. I hope that by thinking of the value production can play in shaping your show/station identity, that it also serves you well in the future.
In most cases you can tell a story through promo production but there’s also other options to explore such as creating some forward momentum through creative rejoins and producing customized feature opens to lead into created segments. The style of what you use should always fit the story or content direction and in most cases it should be in line with the sound of the radio station. I assure you that by putting the extra time into your presentation will help you gain a deeper appreciation and respect from your audience as well as an improved listening experience and it won’t take long before they’re letting you know about it.
Promo – Coming Soon “The Damon Bruce Show” (courtesy of Jeff Schmidt)
During my 20+ years in the sports media business I’ve learned from many great leaders, personalities, friends and rivals. I subscribe to the theory that you should always keep looking for ways to challenge yourself, and one area where improvements can be made in our business is when it comes to conducting interviews.
While spending 2+ years at ESPN in Bristol, CT, I had a chance to sit opposite Dan Patrick on a daily basis. I learned what a good interview should sound like. In my humbled opinion Dan is one of the best of all time when it comes to interviewing people.
Equally as important and even more of a factor on my growth were the training sessions I had a chance to participate in with the architect of interviewing John Sawatsky. Most people won’t know John by name or face but if you watch NFL Live, Baseball Tonight, SportsCenter or any other form of ESPN programming, his work is on display every single night.
John created a workshop built around eliminating what he referred to as the “7 Deadly Sins of Interviewing” and in this blog I’m going to take you through each of those sins and explain why his methods make sense. Most of what’s laid out below is what John passed on during the training sessions but I’ve since changed some of the audio samples and a few of the teachings to make it more adaptable to my style and those I’ve worked with.
Keys To Being a Good Interviewer
Interviewing is one area of journalism that has NOT improved over time. Everything else has, but this is one skill that has gone down. The question and interview are two different things and have different designs. Questions are very powerful and fragile and are in place to generate response and receive information. The interview as a whole is supposed to contain a series of questions which will help us better understand and learn new information about the individual or subject we are speaking with.
Yet often the broadcaster sleepwalks through interviews and throws any questions out there without a specific purpose. In certain situations the interviewer aims to become the star of the conversation and create conflict and visual drama which for the entertainment portion of television or radio may be good but for the purpose of the interview doesn’t deliver what it was intended to do.
Part I: The Question
We look at a car and we don’t know how it works. We like it until it breaks down. The mechanic knows how to fix it. The mechanic is professionally trained and knows about the moving parts. You are the mechanic for your interview. You need to know the moving parts for when your interview breaks down.
Why did CBS fall flat in interviewing Phil Mickelson after the Masters?
We blame the car — it’s a lousy car. “No one can make Phil interesting.”
The answers you get are a function of the question asked.
Every question has two purposes: big and little.
Your question is the only tool. No one HAS to talk to us. We have to rely on questions. We use the question to move it along from Point A to Point B. Each question is moving it forward. That movement is the Big Purpose.
The question’s small purpose is to gather information incrementally. But the big purpose and small purpose are separate. Like the transmission and engine of car. You need both, but they are completely different.
Simply defined: A question is an inquiry into something.
If you can name something, you can deal with it. The name “West Coast Offense” communicates meaning without having to describe the whole system. So we will define terms.
Question = Topic + Query
If you understand that, you can ask questions with amazing precision. Think of a non-digital camera. The lens determines what’s in the picture. The shutter makes the camera operate. Lens is your topic – what you’re looking at. Shutter is the query – what does the work.
DEADLY SIN #1 — NO QUERY
About 20 percent of what we ask doesn’t have a catalyst, an engine.
EXAMPLE – Barbara Walters with “The Crocodile Hunter” Steve Irwin’s Wife
Q: “You’ve lost him and you feel that you were blessed”
A: “I feel I was so blessed”
The query could be, “How can you feel blessed by losing the one you love most” or “Why do you believe you were blessed when you’ve just lost the one who mattered most to you”?
Both examples put the guest in a position to describe and explain rather than confirm or ignore. The content is a result of the process. Rapport is great, but it’s not necessary. A statement proclaims something. A question creates a demand. We have to make our questions do the work to get people to talk to us.
EXAMPLE – Texas Rangers OF Josh Hamilton on ESPN
Q: “When you were in the worst of the worst it just took over”
A: Consumed me. I was basically killing myself inside.
How could the question have been asked to get Hamilton to elaborate further?
EX: “What led to this disease getting the better of you?” “Why was this disease able to take control of you?” “How did this become as bad as it did?”
Once again, if the question asked is delivered with the intention of getting the subject to describe, explain and inform, we’ll learn more new information and deliver better results.
The query is akin to blocking and tackling. It’s basic to making everything work.
DEADLY SIN #2 — DOUBLE-BARRELED QUESTIONS
This is even more popular as a sin than the first deadly sin. This is when the interviewer elects to present the guest with two questions at once. Almost every time the guest is going to select the less challenging portion of the discussion.
EXAMPLE – Katie Couric with Barack Obama
Q: If you believe Afghanistan is the central front in the war on terror, why was this your first trip there and why didn’t you hold a single hearing as chairman of a sub-committe that oversees the fighting force there?
A: Actually the sub committee that I chair is the European sub-committee, and any issues related to Afghanistan were always dealt with in the full committee. Precisely because it’s so important. That’s not a matter that you would deal with in a sub-committee setting.
Obama goes to the one he prefers. People default to the safest, most favorable, least dangerous question.
EXAMPLE – Keith Olbermann with Hillary Clinton.
Q: What do you think of the draft Gore stories and do you think even after all this time that you’ll wind up facing him still in the primaries?
A: I’m hoping he wins and I’m waiting to hear the announcement from the Nobel committee and I hope that we give that well deserved honor to VP Gore.
We typically do this because we are in rush, want to narrow or broaden focus, want to get the story in, for dramatic effect (especially on TV). A single barrel question hanging out there doesn’t seem like that much. Often it’s because we are trying to overcome our own internal doubt about our first question. Sometimes it’s because we want to hear our own voice. And sometimes we just don’t know what the question is.
Those are only some of the reasons. Sometime you just build up too much momentum. You have to slow down before a stop sign. When we finish the question, our voice drops. Sometimes the second question is just to get the voice from 50 mph to 0. But the damage is done. The double barreled question gives the subject a ramp off the highway. You do not want to do that.
DEADLY SIN #3 — OVERLOADING
A question can’t support a topic that is too broad, or multiple topics. “What do you think about sports?” is just too broad. In the case of overloading, this is when the interviewer tries to jam 3-4 and sometimes even 5-6 questions into one exchange. Once again you’ll find the guest picks and chooses what part they wish to respond to.
EXAMPLE – Bill O’Reilly Interview of Howard Stern
Q: So 80-100 million a year go into your corporation. You go on Sirius the satellite radio channel. How are they going to make a profit? How many people are going to go over and what are they like, $50 bucks for a subscription?
A: Is it my problem if they make a profit? Is that my worry? They paid me to go there and entertain the people and that’s what I’ll do
Howard gets defensive and answers the first part and never addresses the challenges of expecting consumers to pay for the product or touching on what he believes the future growth of the company will be due to his arrival.
EXAMPLE – Steve Kroft’s interview with Bill Clinton after the Jennifer Flowers rumors surface
Q: You said that your marriage has had problems. What do you mean by that? Does that mean you were separated? You had communication problems? You contemplated divorce? Adultery?
A: I think the American people, at least those who have been married know exactly what that means.
Clinton is bombarded with too many things at once to address anything specifically so once again the guest gravitates to the area that’s easiest to deal with.
Overloading is a cousin to the double barrel. Using the pizza principle: Usually the more toppings the better, for more flavor. With questions, less is more.
DEADLY SIN #4 — REMARKS
This is the most common violation of interviewing. Any time you put remarks OF ANY KIND in a question then you are offering another off ramp to the highway you’re trying to stay on. YOU DON”T NEED REMARKS. If you feel like you need to make a remark, then the question is flawed. You need to break up the question into several questions.
Newton’s Law: every action creates an equal and opposite reaction. There are no neutral remarks. Everything makes an impact.
Think of a fax machine. It has two functions: send and receive. Don’t go into send mode — giving information — when you want to receive information.
EXAMPLE: Mike Francesa with Joe Girardi
Q: Everyone talks about a fast start. It’s been so hard for the Yankees to get off to a fast start in the last 4-5 years. It’s part of being a veteran team. I don’t think it’s that I think it’s just probably being lucky health-wise and also getting your pitching ready to be ready on opening day. When you think about getting off to a fast start which I know you’d like to do I think it’s about getting your pitching ready.
A: I wholeheartedly agree. We have to get our pitching ready and we need to make sure all of our starters are ready to go and our bullpen is healthy and pitching is going to keep us in games.
Francesa simply dominates the discussion with his opinion and doesn’t ask Girardi to enlighten him at all about the club’s lack of getting off to a fast start. Instead he’s looking for validation to his opinion from Girardi which he receives but the end result is :30 seconds of chatter with nothing new learned from the guest.
EX: “Why has this team had such a difficult time getting off to a fast start?” “What adjustments have you made to make sure this team doesn’t come out of the gate slow this season?”
EXAMPLE: Sean Hannity interview with Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska
Q: I am mad at the Republican party. As a matter of fact I am re-registering in NY as a conservative. I consider myself as a Reagan conservative. I predicted year out that they would lose power in 2006 because I believe they’ve abandoned their principles on spending. They haven’t given a solution to our energy dependence. They haven’t controlled our nation’s borders. The earmarks they’ve got worse than the democrats. If republicans continue down this path they deserve to lose don’t they.
A: Well sure because the power is in the hands of the party that controls the congress in the white house.
The final part of the question gives them an out. The power comes from focusing a topic and subjecting it to them. When people want to escape questions, they will resort to a volume answer — they will take on a different premise. In this question, all Hannity did was get Hagel to agree with his opinion. Not once did he ask Hagel to provide insight or opinion on how he viewed the republican’s efforts. He didn’t ask him how he felt they were matching up to the democrats in the eyes of the public. Instead he just sought validation to his opinion. The result = no insight learned from the guest.
DEADLY SIN #5 — TRIGGER WORDS
Often when we interview a guest there are certain stories that emerge that we have to ask about. If we don’t we compromise our credibility. When difficult areas of a conversation arise it’s extremely important to stay neutral. By leading your question in a specific direction you place yourself in a position to have the interview go south!
EXAMPLE: John Stossel interviews pro wrestler Dr. D David Schultz.
Q: I’ll ask you the standard question. I think it’s fake.
A:: [Smacks him hard, Stossel falls down] – You think it’s fake huh?
Who attacked whom? This was a physical attack from the wrestler. But Stossel instigated, and those can be lasting and deep.
EXAMPLE: Andrew Dice Clay on CNN (there is foul language in this clip)
Q: You were a headline guy and now you’re coming back
A: I’m still a headline guy
Q: For a while you popped out but now you’re coming back
A: Coming back? It’s what I do.
Q: You were running a gym for a while. Tell us about that?
A: Running a gym? You’re supposed to be a news guy, where are you getting your information from? This is ridiculous, I come on CNN and the guy doesn’t even know what he’s talking about.
Every question is made up of words that each have independent meanings. Sometimes people will react to the meaning of a word. The trigger word eats the question. It sets someone off. You put a trigger word in your question, and you can just forget that the subject will answer.
DEADLY SIN #6 — HYPERBOLE
What is hyperbole? This is what comedians do. It’s great at driving home a point.
Leno: It was so cold that the accuser at Duke changed her story, she now said it was the ice hockey team.
When you’re hungry, you’re starved. When you’re bored, you’re bored to tears. Really? No one takes it literally. We use hyperbole all the time. It can be useful as long as it does not mislead. Was the shot really heard round the world? No, but this makes our copy colorful and gets the point across, so there’s a role for hyperbole — and that hyperbole is when we are in “send mode. ”
Think about a voice over. It’s job is to paint a picture and excite you BUT Hyperbole is bad if you are in receive mode. If you put hyperbole in a question, you are done. The focus becomes the excess in your question. And that excess is the exit ramp. We are communicators. We receive and send. That’s all we do. The problem is that each are governed by opposite principles. What makes you good in one makes you bad in another.
TV –the journalists who are the most colorful are usually the worst interviewers. They can send but can’t receive. The great exporters are lousy importers.
EXAMPLE: Ed Bradley with Michael Jordan
Q: There were times when you’d elevate to take your shot and it was like you had another gear up there. Like you were flying.
A: Well we all fly. Some just fly higher than others.
What is Jordan supposed to do with that question? It’s small talk with no purpose.
EXAMPLE: Barbara Walters interviewing Jon Benet Ramsey’s parents
Q: They call Jon Benet a six year old Lolita, a pint sized sex kitten.
A: That didn’t come from Jon Benet.
What do you expect a mother and father to say when asked a question like that? If the question was “How does it make you feel when you hear people say that your daughter was a 6 year old pint-sized sex kitten”? This now makes it about their feelings towards the question instead of disagreeing with the characterization of their daughter and based on the question, you’re likely to get a strong response.
If you put hyperbole in your question, you will get understatement in your answers.
DEADLY SIN #7 — CLOSED QUERIES
This is the worst one and as John Sawatsky would say “it has a special place in hell.” We ask twice as many closed queries than open ones. A closed query is a yes/no question. A closed query only works with an absolute topic — a topic that, like a coin, can only be one or the other. Heads or tails. No in between.
EXAMPLE: Larry King Interviews Paris Hilton
Q: Purpose of jail is to teach a lesson. Did it work with you?
A: It was a very traumatic experience but I feel like God makes everything happen for a reason
Q: Think it changed you?
A: Yeah definitely
Q: Read a lot?
A: A lot. I received fan mail from all around the world. So many letters.
Q: Nicole Ritchie. How’s she doing?
A: She’s doing great
This interview with Paris was a classic case of having a flawed plan from the start. The easy response is to suggest that Paris isn’t a good interview but listen closely to the questions and you’ll find that she’s led to pointless places and never put in a position to have to provide detail. Of all the interviews I’ve listened to in my life this one ranks right up there among the worst of all-time!
When interviewers land big opportunities and fail to take advantage of them, it can lead to national criticism from other media outlets. The last thing you want is to be professionally embarrassed for doing a poor job. Take a listen to the O’Reilly Factor on Fox News the following night and how they reacted to King’s interview.
Great interviews are ones that bring surprises, something we didn’t already know or didn’t expect. What is the problem with using a closed query for a topic that is not absolute? First, let’s look at the moving parts inside a query that work together for an effective question. (Don’t think about this in terms of content — that’s the paint on the car. We’re talking about the engine).
Review: Topic + Query = Question
If a topic is not absolute, it must be relative. Almost all of our topics are relative. What we are trying to find out in most interviews is beyond absolute information. We want people to describe change that is incremental. A relative topic would be the position of a door. It could be open at different stages — half open, barely ajar. If you simply want to know if the door is locked or unlocked, then go ahead and use a closed query. Topics such as fairness, power, freedom, justice are matters of degree. Great reporters listen to what the person values and get them to go further than they have ever gone.
What poor interviewers do: when they don’t get answers, they blame the subject. But it’s the interviewer’s fault. Why not go for the confession? Isn’t that the best story to be gotten?
Here’s the danger of using closed queries with relative topics: The tougher the topic, the more your subject feels backed into a corner. You have given them only one extreme or the other. Morality is really good or really bad? No, there are many shades in between.
If you are trying to understand someone, especially on a sensitive subject, you must use an open query to create a safe zone for your subject to explain their side. With a closed query, a subject often answers a closed query with one of the two extremes offered. But once they have chosen their extreme — the yes or no — they can’t move. They’ll lose face. They are going to deny to protect themselves. They are not going to feel safe to explain themselves. This can even damage gathering information on a fluffy subject.
Conclusion
Have a game plan and ask open ended questions and put your guests in positions that require them to share their insights with you. The goal is to create an atmosphere which is neutral and invites the guest to speak about themselves and what they know while steering them in the direction you wish to take them in. Remember, you can still be tough with your questioning while being fair and you will always get a better response when asking questions that request an answer.
This is a game of percentages and while nothing is guaranteed, you will win more times than not by following these methods. Nobody bats .1000 but if a hitter could bat .400 instead of .300 they’d use the advantages every time up to the plate, interviewing is no different.
Here are two interviews that contain great questions and a smart strategy. You’ll find the momentum continues moving forward with each question, the guest is put in position to describe and explain and each interviewer keeps a neutral position which leads to gaining the information they seek.
Suzy Kolber of ESPN with former Cincinnati Bengals Wide Receiver Chad Johnson
John Sawatsky’s classic Beaver Interview example from Canada
Keys to being a better interviewer
The Primary Impulses
Safe
Favorable
Easy
The Intruders
Social
Professional
Personal
Communication/Journalism
Inputter Outputter
Interviewer
Micro Macro
Question = Topic + Query
Deadly Sin #1 = No Query
Deadly Sin #2 = Double Barreled Question
Deadly Sin # 3 = Overloading
Deadly Sin # 4 = Remarks
Deadly Sin # 5 = Trigger Words
Deadly Sin # 6 = Hyperbole
Deadly Sin # 7 = Closed Question
Verb Non-Starters = Do, Does, Did, Have, Has, Had, Is, Are, Was, Were, Will, Would, Can, Could, Should
Chart a Path
Set a Goal – Choose a direction
Locate the starting point – Before change/conflict/contrast
Connect the dots – struggle/reason
Select a route – When/What
Do It – Forward/Backward, On/Off, Enhance/Advance
Mop Up – U-Turns, Tangents, Less Important Stuff, Hunches, The Left Overs
Goal = To discover and scrutinize the change
Top 10 Questions
10. What’s an example?
9. How did you deal with that?
8. What were the options?
7. What was the turning point?
6. In what way?
5. How would you characterize that?
4. Why is that?
3. What is it like?
2. What do you mean?
1. What happened?
Honorable Mentions
What is the effect?
What are the implications?
What do you make of it?
How does it manifest itself?
How did you feel?
What went thru your mind?
What was your reaction?
How did you arrive at that?
How does that work?
In the broadcasting business we’re constantly searching for ways to invade the head space of our audience. With listeners having countless choices of where to spend their time, and distractions popping up at every turn to pull them away, it’s critical to deliver content that makes people think and seek a response. This is what we call “teasing”.
Simply defined, a tease is a question, comment, fact or highlight used at the beginning or end of a segment to attract the audience’s attention.
Why does it matter? Because in the broadcasting world we’re constantly looking to grow two areas in order to deliver stronger ratings – cume and time spent listening. As a broadcaster, you can’t control whether or not an extra fifty thousand people show up each day to consume your material, but you can control whether or not they stick around and listen longer.
Additionally, research has shown that those who provide effective teases consistently, and deliver a payoff on them, typically receive more time from the listening audience. That speaks to the level of trust you develop with your audience, and loyalty has a deep impact on a personality’s ability to cut through and build a lasting brand.
When it comes to teases there are many broadcasters who do it extremely well. Mike Greenberg and Erik Kuselias are two hosts on the national level who I think do a tremendous job. On the local level, Michael Kay, Bob Fescoe, Randy Karraker and John Lund are just a few who understand the concept and execute it well. The one thing that each of them understand is that it’s about hooking the audience, not over selling an expectation that can’t be delivered on. They also recognize that while it’s important to keep a listener curious heading into the commercial break, it’s equally as important to deliver on the tease when they return from the break.
When you’re delivering a tease it’s important for it to sound natural and honest. Some talent make the mistake of trying to over do it, and people today are smart enough to sniff out nonsense. If you keep a similar tone to how you broadcast throughout a segment, and you provide a curious question or comment, and sound excited and interested in the subject, you’re more likely to keep the audience around.
Think for a minute about all of the distractions that a listener has when listening to the radio. There’s text messages from friends and family, there are other radio stations on the dashboard, there may be other people in the car who want to talk, there’s outside noise if a window is rolled down, there are other apps on their phone for them to listen to, and there are websites to read.
We can tell people not to pay attention to their phones when they’re driving but we all know that’s impossible in today’s A.D.D society. The reality is this, everything that occurs around a listener is a potential distraction, and if you’re not crisp and consistent with making them think, they’re going to depart your program whether they like you or not.
Watch this video and you’ll see how quickly and how easily the listener is distracted. This is who you’re trying to reach every day! Even if they want to consume your content, they’re just as quick to leave if you don’t occupy space in their mind.
In this video the total time ran 3:29, and during that time the listener was interested in the radio station he began his drive with. He also liked the song that was playing, yet 1:45 into it he began to use his cell phone. Once the DJ came on to talk he was searching for something else. Between 2:30-3:20 he is scanning stations and searching for something else to interest him.
Luckily for the station that he started his listening session with, he returns to them after he can’t find something else to capture his attention. In their case, they have likely developed a connection with him, but even with that loyalty, this listener is out the door and on someone else’s airwaves if they can’t provide a compelling reason for him to stay. This is what you’re facing every single minute and every single segment of every broadcast day.
To help you with your presentation as it applies to teasing I’ve provided some things for you to consider when trying to engage your audience:
Make Me Think – We All Like To Learn New Things
Manufacture The Drama – Conflict and Controversy Sells!
Writing Ahead of Time – The Best Works In Life Are Prepared!
One Short Focused Item – Don’t Overload, One Item Is Enough
Create The Need For Closure – People Always Want A Resolution
Speak To Me Not An Entire City – The word YOU Is Very Powerful
Coming Up Next, Up Next, Coming Up – The Show Doesn’t Leave
Use Breaking News To Your Advantage – Hold It Through The Break
Capitalize On The Name – Big Guests Matter But The Content Is The Hook
A few more things for you to ponder as it applies to teasing. Every one of these should factor into your approach.
Passion & Conviction Are Critical – People Respond To Both In Positive Ways!
Tell Me It’s Worth It and Provide The Proof – Bad Payoffs = Bad Customer Service
Recognizing You Are a Salesperson – If You Don’t Care About What You’re Selling To Me Then Why Should I?
More Than 70% of Radio Listening Happens In The Car – Are You Cutting Through All The Distractions? If Not, How Is That Going To Change If You Don’t?
Short-Term Thinking To Long-Term Thinking – It takes 22 Seconds To Go From a Short-Term Thought To Long-Term Thought! If You Make Me Wait Too Long, I’m Gone!
It’s An A.D.D World – The Top Sports Stations On Average Deliver 30-45 Minutes of Listening Per Day. The Average Listener Who Gives You a Quarter Hour of Credit Does It By Giving You Two Occasions For 2-3 Minutes, Not 5 Consecutive Minutes.
So how can you tease more effectively? Here are some examples. Test them out and make them into your own and you’ll find yourself making improvements in how you connect with your audience.
Questions, Questions, Questions –Always Start With Who, What, Where, When, Why or How!
Drama and Suspense – Why Do Soap Operas, TV News & TV Dramas Perform Well? The Unpredictability & Curiosity Keeps You Hooked!
Information Is A Weapon – Breaking News, A Special Guest, A Stat That Will Change My Mind About My Favorite Team/Player or a Situation – They All Cause The Listener To Think & Crave More!
If this subject interests you and you’re curious to learn more I’ve listed a few additional articles below which I think do an excellent job of providing extra detail. The bottom line, teasing benefits you as a broadcaster, but it’s up to you to make it your own and put the time into how you execute them. Those who do it well, enjoy great success at keeping people interested!
12 Tips For Writing Great Teases by Al Tompkins – Click here
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teases by Randy Lane – Click here
