Everyone who has ever attended an improv comedy show most likely learned one lesson about the discipline. When it’s done badly it is awful. Even people fortunate enough to see good improv performances have likely endured rough spots where the performers got off track.

Successful improvisation demands that performers do many things at once. They must actively listen to fellow cast members, put aside preconceived notions to be in the moment, and, perhaps most importantly, have absolute trust in the other people they are on stage with.

For Frank Kramer, host of the Heidi and Frank show on Merulo Media Classic Rock 95.5 KLOS/Los Angeles, that trust starts with co-host Heidi Hamilton.

“She is a magnificent improv performer. We’re like Thelma and Louise in the car,” Frank says. “Heidi is sitting in the passenger seat, and she’ll go over any cliff with me. But in this case she has no idea what cliff we are about to drive off.”

Frank explains that the entire show relies on improvisation. Heidi and the rest of the team never know which stories or topics he’s going to bring up.

“It’s never discussed. I might ask the producers for audio clips or pictures for the webcast but as far as providing a rundown, they have no idea.”

The Secret Weapon Behind Heidi & Frank

Although the entire show operates without a net, Frank has one secret weapon he can count on: the listeners.

“I know Heidi will probably crap when she reads this but in many ways I consider the audience the number two on the show,” Frank says. “We’re a massive call in show and in a way I depend on them more than anyone else.”

Frank understands that this type of show can quickly go from good to awful. It’s something he frequently hears on other radio shows and podcasts.

“A lot of shows will go on way too long with their improv because they aren’t good at it,” Frank says.

Kamer credits Jamie White, his former partner on the Jamie, Frosty and Frank show on Alice 106. White taught him to develop an internal clock that tells him when to move on.

“It’s like being able to listen to the show as I’m doing it, which I realize is weird,” explains Frank. “But I’m thinking if I were in my car I’d be bored. It’s time to get a new suggestion from the audience.”

But moving from one topic to another can be tough to do smoothly. To help, Frank says the show has some built-in signals. “For example, we have the sound of a rocks glass jingling with ice in it, like I need another drink. If something is droning on, I’ll play that to indicate I’m going to get another drink and leave this conversation. It’s both self-deprecating and lets people know we’re moving on.”

That willingness to poke fun at himself and the cast goes along with the overall tone of the show. “We don’t talk about anything that makes it seem like we’re trying to change the world,” he says.

“I’ve never stood on a soapbox, taken a stance and said, ‘this is how it should be and if you don’t agree with me then leave.’”

Instead, the show focuses on providing an alternative to the tedium of everyday life.

“What drives our show is being an escape. We’re there to have fun and make four hours go by as fast as we can for everybody in their car.”

That doesn’t mean the show is vanilla in flavor though; it can get edgy. For example, Frank mentions a game they will occasionally play on the air called Probably White. Frank reads part of a news story and asks Heidi if the person in the story is likely Caucasian. As more details are revealed, the person’s actual race becomes clear. The bit often ends with a ‘don’t judge a book by its cover’ type of lesson.

The freedom to do edgier pieces like that partially comes from having a diverse cast in the studio. But it also comes from being self-deprecating over the course of more than fourteen years on the air at KLOS.

“When I do say something that might be over the line listeners think ‘that’s just Frank. He’s not serious ever.’”

Ratings Growth and Syndication

But too much freedom can be an excuse to wander off course sometimes. While the show has always been strong, recent ratings are better than ever. Frank credits two people for inspiring recent adjustments, Merulo SVP of Programming Pio Ferro and Leslie Morgan, a long-time morning show host who is now the director of the show’s live video webcast.

“Leslie said the listeners don’t want things like New Music Friday with a producer playing songs from some new artist. They want you and Heidi and your takes on everything,” Frank explains. “So, we trimmed all the fat and went back to doing what we do best, having conversations. Once we started doing that again our ratings blew up.”

While the more focused approach and improved Nielsen results weren’t necessarily the catalyst, they are well timed. The show recently announced a partnership with Superadio Networks for syndication. The agreement also connects to Frank’s production company, Toad Hop Network, which houses Krak Network, a live streaming channel he originally launched as a backup plan. Last month, Krak Network generated 60 million hours of listening.

“I felt I had to start something outside of radio where I could land if I had to”, says Kramer. “I was losing faith in the business side of radio. When I was coming up in the ‘90s, it was one of the best times to be in it. Then the accountants and lawyers started making programming decisions they had no right to make.”

Still, Frank says he will never give up on radio. It’s why, after all these years, he’s excited about syndication.

“Being on the air for so long, we’ve been a pain in the ass for iHeart, Audacy and other companies that have gone up against us. Maybe they’ll think, ‘we should let them work for us in other markets.’”

And have no doubts, despite his outside interests, Frank is dedicated to making the syndication effort a success.

“I’m the guy who will go to other cities to do live events. I’m not going to be that guy who sits in Los Angeles and never goes to visit smaller markets. Basically, if you’ve got a bar in your town I’ll meet you there.”

Barrett Media produces daily content on the music, news, and sports media industries. Sign up for our newsletters to stay updated and get the latest information right in your inbox.