The path to entertainment, political, or sports talk radio often began behind a turntable. Most of today’s compelling, funny, conservative, and sports voices learned their craft as music jocks. They master rapid-fire timing, deep storytelling, and the art of building an audience and then keeping listeners.
The transition from reading music logs to putting a spin on pop culture has put many successful talkers on the map. Music formats require personality, a quick wit, and an instinct to read the audience. When music jocks pivot to talk, they bring a built-in rhythm and a keen instinct for content that connects. They also know the feel of when a break is finished.
Nearly every talker has a music presentation background. On the political side, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Sean Hannity started behind the mic in music formats. Even the dry banter of Mark Levin traces back to college radio before he set his sights on talk.
In sports talk, Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, and Jim Rome all experienced music radio before landing on the sports landscape. Tony Kornheiser was also familiar with a turntable long before P.T.I. became a hit.
Bob & Tom were Michigan music DJs before they stumbled their way into Q95 in Indianapolis and then into nationwide syndication. Bob Kevoian and Tom Griswold were baby morning men in Petoskey, winging it with their irreverent sketches when they debuted in March 1983.
Which brings us to another unlikely pair of music talents who successfully transitioned into a talk powerhouse. Also in Indianapolis — Hammer & Nigel on Radio One’s 93 WIBC.
Jason “Hammer” Hammer and “Nigel” Laskowski helm afternoons on the political talk juggernaut. Their show, however, is far from just political talk. It resembles a frat house game room that brings debauchery to politics, juvenile jokes to pop culture, and their Hoosier-native lifestyles to local establishments.
Hammer and Nigel aren’t the typical staid news-talk hosts. They are walking and talking human resources violations who bring their listeners along for a wild afternoon ride. In their wake, Hammer and Nigel tow their talented producer, Allison Lemons, into their delinquent orbit as the de facto moral compass. Their bits have been picked up across the globe by comedy platforms and sports social accounts.
And Hammer and Nigel are wildly successful. They dominate their PM drive target in the ratings, and just last week they were voted the second Barrett Media Top 20 Mid-Market News/Talk Afternoon Show of 2025.
How did they arrive at this point? You guessed it — music radio.
A lifelong Hoosier, Jason Hammer bounced among local Central Indiana music stations for a few decades. He is a wedding DJ, hosts the occasional sportscast, and serves as a sports betting expert. Jason is also a marketing savant, having built events for longtime Indy CHR music station WZPL along with his current home, 93 WIBC.
Nigel Laskowski is also a Hoosier native. As a teen he worked in contemporary Christian radio and then at local Alternative 103.3 WOLT. Nigel did leave central Indiana for stints in Terre Haute and Austin before returning to Indianapolis.
Before their entry on 93 WIBC, Hammer & Nigel started a simple podcast. That effort eventually landed them in a non-prime slot on 93 WIBC, and later they replaced the legendary Greg Garrison in afternoon drive in 2017.
I caught up with Jason Hammer to talk about his transition into music radio and eventually the talk audio platform.
*Editor’s Note: Answers have been edited for clarity and length.*
Kevin Robinson – What was it that made you want to be in radio? When did it hit you that it could be more than a wish?
Jason Hammer – It wasn’t just radio, it was all things broadcasting. I grew up loving what David Letterman was doing. Nobody was having more fun nor doing what he was doing from a creative standpoint on television. Plus, being a kid in Indiana, Dave showed you can make it big from here in my hometown.
Dave showed you can do things a different way from what everyone else is doing and have success. I took that philosophy into my media career and realized in middle school that I had the ability to make people laugh and communicate in a way that others couldn’t.
My mind works and thinks in weird ways. That’s bad if you want to be a doctor. It’s great if you want to entertain and inform people as a radio host. I can’t do any Algebra, but dammit I know the full cast of Saved by Bell and the starting lineup of the 1986 Chicago Cubs.
Kevin Robinson – You spent time in music radio before moving into talk. Tell us about your early DJ days. Where did you start — where did you go — what did you do?
Jason Hammer – My middle and high school didn’t have a radio program, so I did TV there. I also had a fun local community channel TV show I did with my friends. That helped me gain confidence and learn how to put a show together.
Once I got to college at Ball State, I did TV but also radio. I learned there that for my sense of humor, skill set, and quick wit, radio offered the freedom to use my skill set better. Unless you had your own late-night television talk show, it was hard to do dude humor and have hot takes on a media platform in the era before YouTube and social media.
Once I started doing radio at Ball State, I loved it. I loved the freedom being a control freak, so I loved learning every aspect and becoming a one-man band so I could compete for jobs. Then make a career, and build a name for myself.
First paid gig was a small Christian station in Indy. From there I went to a New Hit Country station as a weekend and overnight DJ. From there, I landed a gig at pop station 99.5 WZPL in Indy where I was for nearly 10 years. I did everything from weekends to promotions to producing to nights.
Kevin Robinson – At what point did you start to feel that you could do talk and more than just short breaks at music stations?
Jason Hammer – After WZPL, I was out of radio and doing marketing at a casino when I started a podcast with my current radio partner Nigel Laskowski.
We were both out of radio at the time and wanted a creative outlet. We knew we were funny and talented enough to entertain an audience in long form. Our podcast became super popular, and it became our key to getting back in the business, but in the talk radio world.
Honestly, I was tired of being told that the audience wants less from the host. I wanted a throwback to that era of radio where you connect with your audience and build a relationship with them by being genuine, authentic, honest, and fearless.
Kevin Robinson – Tell us about starting the podcast before WIBC. What was the motivation — did you have coaching or did you just wing it?
Jason Hammer – Just wing it. Again, this was before everyone had one, so I used my marketing skills to promote ours. We had sponsors, and a limo pick up our guests. We were getting more website hits and downloads than a lot of major stations in Indy. Also, I used many of my old bosses and critics as motivation.
People who hired less talented people over me, bosses who never gave me a chance to do my thing. That was the motivation.
I was always successful and had great numbers and response, but certain bosses would not give me that break I needed. It’s sweet watching what I do now win national awards, sit on top of the afternoon drive ratings for eight years, and bring in millions of dollars in advertising while many of my old bosses and haters are nowhere near as successful.
Kevin Robinson – When WIBC gave you the opportunity to host your own show, what were your thoughts about the transition from podcasting? Did you have a large following to pull over to WIBC?
Jason Hammer – I wanted to do something totally different from the perception of news/talk radio.
I didn’t want to be a dime-store Rush Limbaugh. There are so many people who feel you have to fit that mold. Angry, fat guy with a cigar, wearing suspenders and talking about abortion all day, etc. I didn’t want to be that. I wanted to be me and be different.
I’ll do the news of the day and deliver the content in a way that makes people informed AND entertained. Greg Gutfeld of Fox News is the best example I can use. It took about eight months for us to win over the audience and help WIBC usher in a newer lineup. Our show was different. Lots of energy, sound clips, produced imaging, bits, and more.
From that point on, we have been atop the ratings books for men. I take big pride in the numbers of younger men. We have been able to deliver great results for the money demo of 25–54 as well as 6+ and 18+. The proof to back up everything I say is in our advertisers. Folks who advertise with us stay with us. They see results. It’s why we bring in so much money. They see the connection we make with the audience and they want to be a part of that.
Kevin Robinson – What would you say or advise to people who have been downsized from music radio or to people who want to dive into talk? What surprised you — if anything — when you got into full-time talk radio?
Jason Hammer – If you’re going to do it, you’ve gotta be authentic and you have to believe what you say. The audience is gonna know if you’re phony. Political radio especially. Politics are entertainment now. There are a lot of options, so you have to be prepared and present something people can’t get anywhere else.
If you’re coming from music radio, use the contacts you’ve had over the years and start networking. Start as a weekend host or a fill-in host and build that sizzle reel. Building a home studio isn’t the cheapest thing in the world, but it can pay for itself if you start becoming a fill-in host or doing talk radio from your home.
Kevin Robinson – Any other thoughts for those reading and considering a jump into the spoken-word platform?
Jason Hammer – Don’t let somebody tell you that you can’t make it. It sounds cheesy and cliché, but my whole career has been based off that. Tom Brady fueled his NFL career off that, and I think it worked out pretty well for him too.
You have to be willing to outwork everybody and provide something they can’t get anywhere else. You have to be authentic, but you can totally make your own path. I’m walking, living proof. The reward is your success compared to the people who tried to hold you back and who are either living miserable lives or picking up cigarette butts somewhere outside of a gas station.
We allowed ourselves to be drawn into this business because of the way we could connect. Early in our careers, we studied radio coverage patterns and stood in awe of the potential listeners we could reach.
What’s more powerful than a great oldie or a contemporary hit record? Your own voice. Radio careers evolve, platforms change, and technology reinvents the presentation. Yet the heart of broadcasting remains the same — the passion to connect and engage.
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Kevin Robinson is a passionate award-winning programmer, consultant and coach – with multi-formats success all over the country. He has advised numerous companies including Audacy (formerly Entercom Communications), Beasley Broadcast Group, Westwood One, Midwest Communications, Townsquare Media, Midwest Family Broadcasting Group, EG Media Group, Federated Media, Kensington Media, mediaBrew Communications, Starved Rock Media, and more. He specializes in strategic radio cluster alignment, building lean-forward tactics and talent coaching – legacy and entry-level – personalities.
Known largely as a trusted talent coach, Kevin is the only personality mentor who’s coached three different morning shows on three different brands in the same major market to the #1 position. His efforts have been recognized by The World Wide Radio Summit, Radio & Records, NAB’s Marconi, and he has coached CMA, ACM and Marconi Award-winning talent. He is also in The Zionsville High School Hall of Fame as part of the 2008 inaugural class. Kevin is an Indiana native – living near Zionsville with his wife of 39 years, Monica and can be reached at kevin@robinsonmedia.fm.
