The Consultant Conversation

Fred Jaobs (Jacobs Media)
Mike McVay (McVay Media)
Moderatir: Buss Knight (Taking a walk)

The Consultants Conversation at the first Barrett Media Music Radio Conference focused on the current state of radio, the pressure facing the business, and what operators, programmers, talent, and CEOs need to do differently as the industry continues to evolve.

The discussion opened with the acknowledgment that radio, like every business, is changing. New jobs are being created while other jobs are disappearing, and nobody wants to see talented people lose work. A major force behind that disruption is AI. The panel recognized that AI is already affecting content creation, social media, imaging, music discovery, and audience behavior. At the same time, the speakers made a distinction between using AI as a tool and using it as a replacement for talent. The smart approach, they argued, is to use AI to make shows better, improve preparation, gather information faster, and help smaller stations compete with larger operators. The dangerous approach is using AI to copy voices and eliminate human talent.

A central theme was that the world does not need more content. It needs more community. Radio now competes in an environment filled with podcasts, streaming, YouTube, social video, Reels, and endless short-form content. That makes standing out harder than ever. The panel stressed that success can no longer be defined only by Nielsen ratings. Video views, downloads, social engagement, community interaction, live events, and relationships with advertisers all matter. As AI grows, authentic human connection becomes even more valuable.

Fred Jacobs described the industry as being at a precarious point. He argued that many of the rules that guided radio for decades are breaking down. It is not just the organizational chart that needs to be rethought; almost everything about the business needs to be reconsidered. He pointed to years of short-term, quarter-by-quarter thinking as one reason the industry is now struggling to invest properly in research, talent, and innovation. He also said radio is paying the price for decades of ignoring younger demographics, especially in the years following the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

Mike McVay offered a more optimistic but still realistic view. He said the radio business still has the potential to be profitable, especially when stations are not buried under debt. He used examples of stations and companies that generate strong cash flow when they are locally engaged and financially healthy. However, he also acknowledged that the industry may have to go through more pain before it gets better. That pain includes layoffs and the “human carnage” already being seen across the business.

Both Jacobs and McVay agreed that the future is multiplatform. Radio can no longer think of itself as only over-the-air broadcasting. It must be present on apps, social media, streaming, video, podcasts, newsletters, live events, and wherever audiences spend time. McVay said radio is a delivery system, but the real business is talent, content, and connection. A successful show today has to be heard, seen, shared, clipped, streamed, and experienced in person.

The panel also discussed what they would build if they were handed the keys to a new station or audio brand. Jacobs said he might not start with a radio station at all. He might start with YouTube or another platform where an audience can be built and monetized directly. He emphasized the importance of building a brand that lasts, not a short-term “Roman candle” format that burns bright and disappears. He also questioned whether music alone is enough anymore, given how commoditized music has become through streaming platforms.

McVay pointed to a successful sports station in a top-10 market as an example of what strong local engagement can still look like. The station has salespeople, promotions staff, social media leadership, digital sales, remotes, live personalities, and a strong app audience. Its owner is deeply connected to the business community. The point was that radio can still thrive when it is everywhere and when it is deeply involved in the community.

The speakers also contrasted large-scale operators with independent or local owners. Large companies such as iHeart, Audacy, and Cumulus need scale, and that often leads to nationalization, syndication, and hubbing. That model may make business sense, but it creates job losses and can weaken local connection. Independent owners, especially outside the top 20 markets, may have an advantage because they can be more visible, more local, and more connected. McVay used the example of mobile radio studios in Ireland that traveled from community to community, arguing that American broadcasters could build stronger brands by committing to that kind of street-level presence.

Another major point was the need for “strategic rule-breaking.” Jacobs said the old programming model of conducting a music test, drawing a line at 250 titles, and loading songs into a scheduling system is not enough anymore. He argued that PPM itself is not the problem, but the way radio interpreted PPM caused damage. In the early PPM era, some stations stopped identifying themselves clearly, assuming listeners would just find them. That thinking weakened branding and connection.

McVay agreed that music still matters, but said programmers must understand how people actually listen today. With some research showing very limited weekly listening time, it is unrealistic to assume listeners hear every song in the way programmers imagine. Stations need the big hits, but they also need “chocolate chips” — special songs, surprises, or moments that give the brand texture and personality.

Talent was repeatedly identified as the most important differentiator. McVay said he could copy a station’s music, marketing, and contests, but he cannot copy air talent that has a real relationship with the audience. The panel argued that personality is what protects a brand. That personality can be local, national, or even voice-tracked if the prep and connection are strong. The key is whether the talent creates something distinctive and meaningful.

The conversation also addressed the talent pipeline. Jacobs said radio has no real bench anymore. In the past, stations could find rising talent in smaller markets, but many of those stations now run syndicated programming. He sees college radio as one of the best remaining places to find young, radio-oriented people with fresh perspectives. McVay added that young people are still creating; they are just doing it through podcasts, TikTok, fake online radio stations, and social platforms. The bigger problem is compensation. He argued that radio has eliminated much of its middle class, with some people making wages comparable to retail or food-service jobs but with weaker benefits.

Finally, the panel discussed what CEOs need to understand. Jacobs said CEOs must understand every platform they expect their companies to use. It is not enough to order a podcast division, newsletter strategy, or digital product without understanding how that content is made, how long it takes to develop, and how it should be sold. McVay praised leaders who understand programming, content, technology, and local execution. The best CEOs surround themselves with people who know the work and give them room to evolve, while still holding ideas accountable financially.

The panel closed on a sober but hopeful note. The industry is clearly facing painful change, layoffs, debt, technological disruption, and audience fragmentation. But the speakers also believe radio is capable of better work. The path forward is not more sameness. It is stronger talent, smarter use of AI, better community connection, multiplatform distribution, strategic risk-taking, and leadership that understands how content is actually created.

The State of Audio Measurement

Moderator: Rob Miller (WNEW-FM)
Rich Tunkel: (Nielsen)
John Rosso: (Triton Digital)
Cameron Hendrix: (Magellan AI)

he discussion centered on how audio measurement is evolving across radio, streaming, and podcasting, and whether the industry is moving fast enough to satisfy advertisers who increasingly want proof of business outcomes, not just audience estimates.

The panelists generally gave the current state of audio measurement a B or B-minus. The reason was not that measurement is broken, but that audio is fragmented. Broadcast radio, podcasting, streaming audio, and video all operate with different measurement systems, different standards, and different expectations from advertisers. Digital audio has more native delivery and attribution data, while broadcast is still working to become more measurable in the same way digital channels are.

A major theme was that advertisers are no longer satisfied with reach, frequency, impressions, or rankers alone. They want to know whether campaigns drove sales, foot traffic, web searches, leads, or other outcomes. The panel repeatedly came back to the idea that outcome measurement is becoming the real report card for audio.

Rich Tunkel addressed Nielsen’s diary-market measurement and explained why Nielsen requested a pause in MRC accreditation for diary markets. His point was that the audit process is backward-looking and resource-intensive, while Nielsen needs room to innovate faster. Nielsen is testing a new, less burdensome way to collect diary-market listening data, alongside traditional paper diaries and the newer mobile M-Survey. The goal is to make it easier for people to participate and to better capture listening from harder-to-reach demographics.

There was also a discussion about Nielsen’s shift from the five-minute rule to the three-minute rule in PPM markets. Rich said the change helped capture more listening occasions, especially shorter listening sessions that reflect today’s media habits. He said it brought in more listening and was fairly equitable across formats, with Spanish-language formats seeing some of the larger gains. However, he also said he had hoped radio programmers would experiment more with the added flexibility, especially around stopset placement. Instead, many stations still cluster commercial breaks around the old quarter-hour habits.

One of the most important programmer-facing points was about ratings compression. Rich explained that in an average quarter hour, only about 40 to 50 people out of every 1,000 may be listening to radio at that exact moment. When that listening is divided across a large number of stations, especially in a market like New York, it creates a crowded ranker with a lot of stations bunched closely together. That also explains why one panelist can seem to have such a large impact, especially in younger demos.

The panel addressed whether younger-skewing formats are being undercounted. Rich pushed back on the idea that younger listeners are simply missing from the data, saying Nielsen uses weighting to prevent older listeners from being overrepresented and younger listeners from being underrepresented. But he acknowledged the real frustration: younger demos are harder to recruit, and because fewer 18-34s are listening in any given quarter hour, each active panelist can carry more influence. So the issue may not be undercounting as much as volatility and stability.

AI came up as another major topic. The panelists were careful to distinguish between using AI to improve analysis and using AI to create audience estimates. Nielsen said it does not use AI to inform its audience estimates. Instead, AI is used internally to improve processes and analyze data more efficiently. Magellan AI said its technology is used to identify ads in podcasts and audio streams, but the measurement still has to be grounded in real advertiser data, such as purchases, order IDs, or conversions.

A strong point from the conversation was that AI should not invent better-looking numbers. Its value is in helping humans make sense of the firehose of data. One example was using AI to turn complicated campaign performance data into a short, understandable narrative for a seller to share with a client. A campaign may not show a dramatic “hockey stick” increase, but a 3% lift in sales, foot traffic, or search activity can still be meaningful. AI can help explain that.

The panel also discussed the need to bring podcasting further upstream in the media planning process. Nielsen is working to integrate first-party podcast data into Nielsen Media Impact, the planning tool used by advertisers and agencies. The argument was that podcasting cannot grow simply by fighting for a small piece of the existing audio budget. To grow meaningfully, it has to appear in the planning systems where agencies make allocation decisions and where media channels compete for budget.

There was also a pushback against treating “audio” as one single bucket. Podcasting, streaming, and broadcast radio can each reach different audiences and play different roles in a media plan. Cameron noted that advertisers sometimes think they have checked the audio box if they buy one form of audio, but the overlap between podcast and streaming audiences may be smaller than expected. The takeaway was that buying one part of audio does not mean an advertiser has bought all of audio.

The final portion focused on the long-running debate over advertiser demos, especially whether radio should move from 25-54 to 25-64. Rich said the demos are available in the tools, but advertisers are usually the ones setting the age target. The panel agreed that radio has a strong case to make for older, affluent consumers with disposable income. John made the point that radio has been having this same argument for more than 30 years.

The strongest argument for expanding the demo was tied to outcomes. If a 55-year-old buys a Jeep, the car dealer does not discount that sale because the buyer is outside 25-54. A buyer is a buyer. That may be where radio has its best opportunity: instead of only fighting over age cells, the industry can prove that its audience actually buys things.

Overall, the panel painted audio measurement as a system in transition. Radio, podcasting, and streaming are all being pushed toward the same reality: advertisers want proof. Reach still matters, demos still matter, and audience estimates still matter, but the future of audio measurement will be about connecting listening and ad exposure to actual business results.

Act Like a Talent, Think Like An Owner

Murphy Sam & Jodi (Premier Networks)

The Murphy, Sam & Jody session was less a traditional programming panel and more a business lesson for radio talent. The central idea was that their success did not come only from chemistry, likability, and relatable content, although all of that clearly matters. Their growth came from learning to treat the show as a company, not simply a daily performance.

Jason Barrett introduced them by saying he wanted them involved because of their chemistry, energy, relatability, and likability. But he also made the point that their story goes beyond being a successful radio show. They built a business, learned how to distribute it, and grew it into syndication in a way that other talent in the room should study.

Murphy, Sam, and Jody opened by saying the session would not be a deep dive into programming best practices. Instead, they wanted to talk about what they learned the hard way over 25 years of syndication. Their four main lessons were: be your own CEO, understand that you serve more than one audience, check your ego, and “keep the wow.”

The first major theme was the need for a mindset change. Jody said that when she started, she mostly wanted to focus on the audience and the content. That was her natural lane. Murphy, however, pushed the group to think like business owners. He helped them understand that they could not just show up, do the show, and wait for the industry to take care of everything else. They had to operate like a business.

Murphy explained that being a CEO means focusing on the outcome and owning all the responsibilities around the show, even the boring ones. That includes affiliate communication, technical delivery, sales support, brand consistency, market research, contracts, and making sure the show fulfills every promise it makes. He said talent can’t always do everything themselves, especially as they grow, but they do have to own the responsibility.

They also talked about serving three different audiences. The first audience is, of course, the listener. Jody said she does not think of listeners only as a target demo or profile. She thinks of them as people she is in a relationship with. She talked about how listeners interact with them online, invite them into their lives, and feel personally connected to the show. That relationship, she argued, is still the most powerful thing radio talent can create.

But the second audience is advertisers. Murphy and Jody made the point that sales can no longer be treated as someone else’s problem. When they launch in a new market, they do not only meet with the PD or OM. They also meet with the general sales manager, sales team, and sometimes clients. They tell affiliates to treat them as if they are “down the hall.” They give sales managers, advertisers, and affiliates their cell phone numbers. Jody said she once worried that clients might abuse that access, but they generally do not. Instead, it helps build trust.

A key moment came when someone told Jody that she needed sales managers walking into the GM or market president’s office and fighting for the show, saying, “I can sell this.” That changed how she viewed the role of talent. If the sales team believes in the show and knows the talent is responsive, they become internal advocates. That is critical for syndicated talent.

The third audience is the affiliate itself. Murphy, Sam, and Jody emphasized that every affiliate is, in some way, a boss. As they joked, when you are on nearly 90 stations, you have about 90 bosses. That means being available, flexible, and responsive. They told a story about being ready to leave for Christmas vacation when an AE from an affiliate asked them to cut a spot for a client. The client wanted all three of them on the spot, the copy was long, and the timing was terrible. But they did it anyway because the affiliate had sold the client on them. Their attitude was that the job is not just to be talent, but to deliver when someone in a local market has put their credibility on the line.

The “check your ego” section focused on rejection, flexibility, and not taking business decisions personally. Sam talked about the reality that stations will drop the show, deals will fall apart, and markets will change. Sometimes there is something to learn from the loss. Other times, the decision may be about money, format changes, or local strategy. Murphy said the challenge is to separate the facts from the feelings. Talent naturally takes rejection personally because the product is their personality, voice, and life. But if every loss becomes emotional, it becomes harder to grow.

They also talked about flexibility. If a station cannot carry them in mornings anymore, maybe there is an afternoon solution, a weekend version, or some other content offering. Murphy said the answer should not automatically be “no.” It should be, “How can we approach this?” That mindset keeps doors open.

One of the strongest business stories came from 2009, when the economy tanked. They had been self-syndicating for several years when several affiliates suddenly said they could no longer pay cash and needed to switch to barter. The problem was that Murphy, Sam, and Jody did not have a barter option. At first, they had to figure it out without letting the stations see the panic behind the scenes. They essentially said yes, then worked to solve it. They eventually built a barter model and later partnered with companies like Skyview Networks and Premiere Networks. Murphy said the important part was that the client-facing side remained steady. The affiliates did not need to see the pain and confusion behind the curtain. The show had promised to be a solution, and they had to keep acting like one.

They also talked about the importance of intellectual property. During the old Clear Channel days, after being turned down for another salary increase, they asked if they could own the intellectual property of the show. Mark Chase and Brad Harden agreed, and that decision changed everything. It allowed them to syndicate beyond iHeart. Murphy said that moment gave them freedom, but also responsibility. They had to manage the privilege carefully and avoid abusing the company that had allowed them to own the show.

Murphy said that move is the reason they are on 87 stations today. It was not because anyone simply handed them a platform. At the time, they were too small and boutique for major networks to sell nationally. But owning the IP gave them the ability to start building. They later had to operate like “Switzerland,” meaning they could not give iHeart automatic preference, even though that was where the opportunity began. They had to treat all partners and affiliates fairly.

The session also touched on protecting what you build. Jody’s phrase “Keep the Wow” began as a personal motto about holding onto good moments and letting losses go. Murphy, thinking like a businessman, protected it with a service mark. They now use it as part of the brand and even sell merchandise connected to it. That illustrated the larger point: if talent creates something valuable, they should protect it.

The emotional heart of the session was “Keep the Wow.” Jody said talent and programmers are being asked to do more than ever. They may have to be the CEO, HR department, marketing department, sales department, engineer, IT person, billing department, and contract writer. But amid all that, she reminded the room that talent is still the “wow” of the business. Talent is the heartbeat, the touchstone, and the reason listeners form an emotional bond.

In the Q&A, someone asked what sitcom best represented their show. They said “Friends” because of the ensemble dynamic. Murphy is the straight man and the steady center. Jody is the heart. Sam is the smartass, cynic, and color. They stressed that these are not fake characters. They are real versions of who they are. Their marriages, divorces, kids, sobriety, family lives, flaws, and personal stories all become part of the show.

The final message was that if they could do it, others can too. But the key is running the show like a business while never losing the human connection that made the show worth building in the first place. Murphy, Sam, and Jody’s story is not just about syndication. It is about ownership, humility, service, adaptability, and knowing that talent still matters — but talent has to think bigger than the studio.

Appetite For Disruption

• James Kurdziel (Cumulus Media)
• Frank Kramer (95.5 KLOS)
• Justin Johnson (98 Rock)
• Chris Lloyd (102.5 WBAB)
• Moderator: David Hill (Barrett Media)

David Hill opened up the line of questioning talking about AI and how it’s beginning to take over the world of rock radio. James Kurdziel says he considers AI a tool much like technology when he first began in radio. Johnson built on those comments by saying it’s used more for the day to day of consolidating the busy work of the role. Lloyd believes the AI is more about how humans choose to use it. There’s plenty of ways to continue.

Kramer however said the technology is scary for him. Instead of the technology being so open, it needs some more dedication and oversight by human beings. There’s little oversight which leads to concerns about how the technology could actually be beneficial over intrusive to the business of the industry.

When asked about the backlash from the consumer in their individual markets, Kurdziel believes that the audience already believes that radio is already run by AI. It’s the job of the station and the talent to now prove their not artificially enhanced. Kramer mentioned the rise in AI artists in both listening and popularity.

Hill then shifted to the challenge for any brand. Reaching new listeners. Kurdziel says there’s plenty of mistakes being made by many stations. He says the goal of Q101 isn’t to attach themselves to 24 year old’s, but more 40 year old’s. It’s more about reaching listeners who loved the format, left it with time, and now want to re-live the fun times of what those younger experiences brought.

Lloyd then referenced the different type of audiences, all earned one by one. It comes down to working within your own communities, and connecting with people on a more personal level. Johnson says that success all comes down to talent. Getting your talent in front of as many different people and platforms as possible. However, Kramer says being available on every platform is not exactly a good strategy. For him, it’s all about driving people back to the radio show. Therefore, he doesn’t give away everything on every platform. He wants to ensure that people understand the radio show is paramount, and the bigger party can be found there.

When it comes to corporate influence in how playlists are curated, Kurdziel admits that hits in every format are undeniable. However, where the nuance comes is in market to market. Local bands and sounds matter most with local audiences. He credited Cumulus Media of allowing station management to have more control over their playlists than ever before. it’s about winning, that’s it. While not denying that corporate control still somewhat exists, it’s not as prevalent as you may think.

Lloyd echoed those statements. Hits are hits, and other songs are not just hits. It’s all about getting the audience involved and as much research as possible to make the decisions for your individual markets. Johnson revealed that every active rock station’s playlists are about 80% the same, the rest is just more gut decisions based on the research you have. He cherishes the freedom in his role with 98 Rock, but he does miss the discussions with fellow programmers about strategy on playlists.

Kramer however doesn’t play any music to his show on 95.5 KLOS, and wouldn’t have it any other way. Have the morning show mixed in with the music, not the other way around.

When it comes to morning shows around the country and the balance of music in morning shows, it’s a heated debate. Johnson said it’s all about content. As long as the content is there, allow the talent in the morning show talent to determine if they need the music to add to the content of the show. If it’s a personality driven show, let the personality drive it. Lloyd says there’s not a one size fits all with every morning show on every station.

When it comes to what makes their individual brand special, Kurdziel says in Chicago, Q101 is cool. It’s had that cool factor for years before he arrived, and the branding is undeniable around the city. Lloyd spoke about WBAB and it’s heritage brand in Long Island, NY. It comes down to the people of the station that continue to build upon the standard set many years ago. Johnson echoed the same about 98 Rock in Baltimore. However, he says that the music isn’t the only thing driving the success of the brand today. It has play by play among other items on the brand to reenforce that heritage in the Baltimore market. Kramer talked about the “Rainbow Racetrack” of 95.5 KLOS and the talent that have been legendary in that market for many years. However, it also comes down to rewarding the listener too by providing them access to experiences that they will never forget.

However, re-invention is key to remaining relevant for success. Kurdziel says it comes down to try, fail and then find success. But it’s all about continuing to try. Also, people who understand what works and what doesn’t as time moves on is vital to remaining ahead of the game. Lloyd agreed saying that the goal always has to be about stepping on the gas no matter how often you fail. Johnson said taking chances is the only way to find success. There shouldn’t be a fear of being fired every time you have a decision to make.

To wrap up, David Hill asked everyone on the panel about what was their biggest failure in radio. Kurdziel says he’s currently living in his own personal failure. Working with different playlists, jocks talking in different parts every single day. It’s more about finding out what works, and then building off that. That leads to a lot of excitement about where the future could lead. For Lloyd, it’s about building his team during his first term as a program director and a giveaway for a Harley Davidson where he lost all the entry forms for everyone who submitted. What he learned is be more humble and work with your people on many things.

Johnson referenced his time working for iHeartMedia at WEBN where there was a lot of cooks in the kitchen. He took every word from those cooks as gospel, and never used his own gut instinct on things. Kramer said it came down for him where he didn’t know who the clients were on the radio station he represented. So, when doing a segment on his program, not knowing that the topic of the conversation was an advertiser on the radio station.

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The Eras of Radio

• Mark Adams (iHeart Media)
• Sean Copland (B101)
• Steve Salhany (Mix 104.1)
• Anna Zap (Anna & Raven. Connoisser Media)
• Moderator: Sharon Dastur (Dastur Venture)

The panel, moderated by Sharon Dastur, focused on where music radio stands today, how station brands are being built, where future talent will come from, and why personality, local connection, and trust may matter more now than music alone.

Sharon opened by asking each panelist to describe the personality of their station or show without using format labels or positioning statements. Mark Adams described Z100 as a reflection of New York and the Tri-State area. Even though Z100 is a massive brand, he said it has to feel small and personal to the listener. The station’s job is to reflect the mood of the market, amplify what people are already talking about, and provide entertainment, companionship, and connection.

John described the stations he programs, and himself included, as unpolished and authentic. He said real conversations with friends are usually not polished, and that authenticity is part of what makes radio work. Anna described her show as “mom radio,” but not in the safe, Radio Disney sense. She said the show is funny and edgy while still being able to connect with moms, kids, and men. That early exchange set the tone for the larger conversation: successful radio brands need a human personality, not just a music position.

When Sharon asked what makes their brands different from competitors, the answer came down to execution. Steve Salhany said plenty of stations talk about being local and connected, but the key is actually doing it. He said personalities and promotions people need to be in stores, out at events, and visible in the community. That localness is what gives a station its vibe and makes listeners feel connected to the people behind the brand.

Anna added that being live still matters. She said she gets up at 3:30 every morning, and because her show is live, she can talk about what is happening that day. She contrasted that with shows that pre-record bits days in advance. She also said she still believes in putting listeners on the air, including kids, because it allows the audience to participate. Sean Copeland added that his company still has people in the building, which allows them to do meaningful things for both the audience and clients. He acknowledged that a well-staffed building is becoming increasingly rare.

Mark said Z100 tries to execute ideas that are “bigger than big,” things that make people ask how the station pulled them off. But even with large-scale ideas and syndicated talent, he said the local connection still matters. Elvis Duran may be syndicated nationally, but he is still a New Yorker, and that identity helps anchor the brand.

Sharon then asked what old-school behaviors or radio ideas might be coming back. Steve said he believes radio itself is coming back. He argued that the medium has been declared dead many times, from MTV to streaming, but it has survived because it still offers one-on-one connection. He also said radio has done a poor job of growing the next generation of young talent, which must change if the industry wants to remain healthy.

Mark connected radio’s opportunity to the current distrust of artificial intelligence and misinformation. He said people are overwhelmed by digital platforms and unsure what to believe. That gives radio personalities an opening because they can provide trusted companionship, curation, and endorsement. In his view, the trust dynamic between listener and personality may become even more valuable.

John talked about nostalgia and the desire for older, simpler cultural experiences. He mentioned the idea of a village frozen in the 1990s, with old Pizza Huts and AOL Messenger, and said people seem to want pieces of that world back. His station has leaned into that with The Tape, a live, local, all-request Saturday night show. On paper, a six-hour call-in request show may sound outdated, but listeners still call because they want to participate.

The panel then shifted to where radio will find its next generation of talent. Sean shared the example of someone on the promotions team who also board-opped for a talk station. The employee loved country music and wanted to be on the air, so Sean gave him a chance to voice track overnights on the country station. It was an old-school development opportunity: get some reps, make airchecks, and learn by doing.

Mark pushed back against the idea that the talent pipeline is completely broken. He said dynamic people are still out there, but radio has to look beyond the old small-market ladder. He gave the example of a current Z100 afternoon personality who had been a waitress in San Jose only a few years earlier. Someone noticed her personality, introduced her to radio, and she eventually landed one of the biggest afternoon jobs in the country. Mark’s point was that radio needs to find talent in the real world.

Anna added a practical warning: young people still need to pay bills. She said she was able to chase radio partly because her husband helped support the household while she took pay cuts. Not every young talent has that option. If radio wants to keep younger people, it may need to find ways for them to supplement income, especially when they can often make money as influencers or content creators.

When asked what matters now when evaluating personalities, the panelists said experience is less important than the ability to connect. Steve said he looks for someone dynamic who wants to be a personality. Mark said he pays attention to social media because entertainment is platform-agnostic. If someone can be interesting and engaging in one space, he can teach them radio. John told a story about hiring a country co-host whose resume and demo were not impressive, but after having a beer with him, he realized the person could tell stories, carry a conversation, and be relatable.

The conversation then moved into music and data. Steve said programming has changed because there is so much information now: streaming, research, Shazam, Spotify, and even iTunes. But he made a larger point: for many music brands, music is not as important as it used to be. Listeners can get any song they want, whenever they want, without commercials. That means radio’s real difference-maker is local content and personality.

Mark said Top 40 radio has moved away from being a pure gatekeeper. In the past, programmers often looked for reasons not to play songs. Now, he said, radio needs to think more strategically about artists who can matter over multiple songs and multiple years. Not every song needs to be a smash. Sometimes a good song helps build familiarity and supports the larger brand. Because audiences are fragmented, songs also take longer to become familiar, so radio has to be more patient and strategic.

Sean added that his company benefits from sharing information market to market. Mobile data helps show how different cities respond to music differently.

Sharon then asked about the difference between someone listening to a station and following the brand. Mark said every point of contact matters. If someone discovers a personality on social media before knowing they are on the radio, that is an opportunity to pull them back to the station. Steve compared it to politics and said talent needs a ground game. They have to meet people, shake hands, introduce themselves, and ask for the order: “Would you be willing to check me out?” Anna echoed advice from an old promotions director: shake as many hands as possible.

A major takeaway was that people follow people more than brands. When Sharon asked what does the heavy lifting outside of music, Mark said Z100’s foundation is the morning show. Steve said stations need strong morning shows but also more depth in other dayparts, especially afternoons. John put it bluntly: with 15 minutes of commercials an hour and music people did not personally choose, meaningful personalities are the reason anyone would choose radio.

Mark gave Alex Warren as an example of the long game. Z100 supported him early, including at a Summer Bash event where only a small crowd showed up. But after sustained support across platforms, events, and songs, the investment became meaningful. His point was that wins are rarely instant anymore.

The panel closed by challenging the assumption that radio is dying. Mark said radio is alive, healthy, vibrant, and growing in many places. People are overwhelmed by choice and still need trusted curation. He compared it to walking into a comic book store and needing someone knowledgeable to guide you. Radio can do that for music. Steve said he is tired of hearing that radio is over and said the industry needs to believe in itself again. Sean pointed to listener comments after recent layoffs as proof that people still care when familiar voices disappear.

Overall, the panel argued that radio’s future is not about becoming more like streaming. Its opportunity is to lean harder into what streaming, algorithms, and AI cannot easily provide: trusted personalities, local presence, human connection, community participation, and people who make listeners feel like they belong.

Learning From Legends

• Jim Kerr (Q104.3)
• ‘Broadway’ Bill Lee (WCBS-FM)
• Scott Shannon (True Oldies Channel)
• Moderator: Jim Ryan (Barrett Media)

The Radio Hall of Fame panel moderated by Jim Ryan brought together Scott Shannon, Jim Kerr, Broadway Bill Lee, Tim Kelly, and others for a warm, funny, and deeply revealing conversation about what built their careers, what radio used to demand of its best personalities, and what the business has to remember if it wants to keep mattering.

The discussion opened with Ryan recognizing the weight of the moment. He was sitting with multiple Radio Hall of Famers, including people he had competed against and others he had the privilege of working with. That set the tone for the panel: admiration, humor, honesty, and a clear understanding that these were not just famous radio voices, but people who helped shape the sound and personality of the medium.

When asked what allowed them to build Hall of Fame careers, Jim Kerr gave the simplest and maybe most important answer. He said the key was showing up every day, being consistent, being positive, being upbeat, and appreciating that the audience was there. Kerr said his job each morning was to make sure listeners could feel his affection for them through the speakers. His goal was not to prove how clever he was or dominate the room. It was to give people something that made their day a little better.

Scott Shannon said he never set out to be a star. He just wanted to be on the radio. As a kid, he saw a picture in Billboard magazine of a man alone in a small room with a microphone, talking to people he could not see. That looked perfect to him. He joked that it meant he did not have to talk to anyone face to face; he could just talk into the microphone. Like so many great radio people, he had a childhood fascination with the medium and later realized that almost every other great DJ had some version of the same story — a pretend radio station in the bedroom, basement, or another room in the house.

Broadway Bill Lee said his passion came first from the music. He had been in garage bands and loved records before he ever became a radio personality. His early career was not about being famous as much as it was about being close to the songs. He talked about advice he received from Jerry Cagle, who told him to “try to be as good as the music.” That became central to the Broadway Bill Lee sound. He approached song intros as if he were introducing a band on stage. If Journey was about to play, he wanted to bring the same energy and excitement through the radio. Eventually, especially through social media, people could see how much he genuinely loved the music, and that love became part of his brand.

A major theme of the panel was failure. Ryan asked when each person felt they had “made it,” but the answers quickly turned into stories about getting fired, rejected, and starting over. Broadway Bill talked about being fired from WTIC-FM in Hartford after going too far during a live on-air conversation involving condoms and marijuana. That could have been a career disaster, but it led to one of his biggest breaks: KFRC in San Francisco, part of the legendary RKO General group. Bill described those stations as majestic, loud, tight, edgy, and nationally respected. For him, landing at KFRC was a moment when he knew he had reached a different level.

Scott Shannon asked Jim Kerr whether he had ever been fired, and Kerr said yes, several times. The panel treated it as a shared truth: everybody in radio gets fired eventually. Scott said being dismissed, replaced, retired, or “separated from your duties” is part of the gig. The people who make it are the ones who keep going.

Scott told one of the best stories of the panel about buying a plastic briefcase from Kmart early in his career because he wanted to look official. Inside the briefcase, he taped a page from Broadcasting Magazine that listed the top media markets. He circled Mobile, Alabama, where he was working, and planned to circle each bigger market as he moved up. He wanted Los Angeles. He also repeatedly sent airchecks to WABC in New York, only to be told he was not the kind of disc jockey they wanted and that he did not sound like New York. Years later, of course, Shannon would become one of the defining voices of New York radio.

Jim Kerr’s New York story was just as revealing. He had been working in Chicago, first on ABC’s FM station WDAI, where he took over mornings at just 19 years old. He was working six days a week for $273. Then ABC moved him to WLS for one Saturday night shift from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m., and the pay jumped to $434 a week. That showed how different radio economics were at the time, and how much more powerful the AM brands were.

When changes came to WLS, Kerr thought he might be out. Instead, ABC told him they would keep him until they found another place for him inside the company. That place turned out to be mornings at WPLJ in New York. The raise was only sixteen dollars a week, from $434 to $450, but the opportunity was enormous. Kerr admitted it was terrifying. New York was full of huge radio names, including Don Imus and John Gambling. But his new program director, Tim Powell, took him to dinner and told him not to try to compete with them. Just be yourself. Kerr said that worked.

Kerr also reflected on the difference between New York radio in 1974 and New York radio today. Back then, he was right in the middle of the 18-24 demo stations wanted. Now, he joked, he is out of demo, along with many of the listeners who have been with him from the beginning. But he did not frame that as a complaint. Instead, he said the key is surrounding himself with younger people who have different cultural references. They help the show connect with younger listeners, while he can mentor them in return.

The conversation then turned to Scott Shannon as a program director. Shannon said he never really wanted to be a PD. He wanted to be the best DJ. But he became a programmer because he did not want to work for people who loved radio and music less than he did. His programming style was based on simplicity. He did not believe in long aircheck sessions where every break was dissected. He preferred hallway coaching. If someone talked too much, he told them they “yakked” too much. Simple, direct, and clear.

That led into the classic “Beat It” story. Shannon recalled Magic Matt Alan talking over the long intro of Michael Jackson’s “Beat It.” Scott walked into the studio and explained that the cart machine showed the intro time. When the numbers matched, that was the signal to stop talking. His message was blunt: shut up. It was funny, but it captured his larger philosophy. Do not get in the way of the record unless you are adding something better.

The panel also dug into the craft of old-school Top 40 radio. Scott joked that no listener ever called to praise a jock for hitting the post, but Jim Kerr and Broadway Bill Lee made clear that the skill mattered. On stations like KHJ, CKLW, WRKO, WOR-FM, WLS, and KFRC, the energy came from the way the music, jingles, pacing, and personalities moved together. Great jocks became one with the music. They did not just talk over song intros; they rode them.

Bill Drake’s influence also came up. Shannon said Drake changed radio by creating tighter, more disciplined stations. The station always sounded consistent, even though personalities could be different. The greats, like Robert W. Morgan, The Real Don Steele, and Dr. Don Rose, were so talented they could bend the format. Jim noted that Z100 worked the same way. Scott could do almost anything on the Z Morning Zoo, while the rest of the station stayed within the structure.

The final part of the conversation looked at radio’s future. Broadway Bill talked about poetic license and whether local personalities today are still allowed to take chances. The feeling was that many are not. Talent is often more restricted, more careful, and less free to experiment with content or language.

Jim Kerr delivered the strongest argument for why radio still matters. He said the industry has done a poor job promoting itself to the larger media and advertising world. Too many people talk as if radio is dead, even though hundreds of millions still listen every week. Technology has changed everything, but human nature has not changed. People still crave companionship and connection. Kerr said radio provides that better than almost any other medium.

Scott Shannon added that local still works when it is great. He pointed to the KVJ Show in Florida as an example of a local show that plays very little music, talks heavily about its community, and wins big. But he also made a realistic point: a great national show can be better than a weak local show. The issue is not local versus syndicated. The issue is whether the content is compelling.

The best closing thought was that a good song is better than mediocre content, but great content is better than any song on the playlist. That summed up the careers on stage. These Hall of Famers gave listeners more than records. They gave them rhythm, personality, humor, companionship, and a reason to keep coming back.

Choosin’ Country

• Tim Roberts (Audacy)
• Andie Summers (Beasley Media)
• Mark ‘Hawkeye” Louis (New Country 96.3)
• Moderator: Joel Raab (Joel Raab Consulting)

Country radio has always carried a little bit of an outsider complex inside the broader radio business. It is massive, loyal, highly commercial, and often culturally powerful, yet it can still be treated as if it sits apart from every other format. That dynamic was on display during the Country Radio panel led by Joel Rabb, with Tim Roberts, Andie Summers, and Mark “Hawkeye” Louis offering a candid look at what still makes the format special, what is threatening it, and why the best country stations still have a very real opportunity to win.

Raab opened by asking what makes country different from other formats. The answer came back quickly: intimacy. Country is personal. The songs are personal. The artists are personal. The connection between the audience and the performers feels different. Fans do not just believe they are watching a star on stage; they often believe they know that artist. In country, the relationship between listener and artist can feel like friendship. That gives country radio a powerful role as the bridge between the two.

Hawkeye made the point that country artists are simply more accessible than many artists in other formats. He mentioned Chris Young calling his show after Dallas Cowboys games to talk football, something that would be difficult to imagine from a major pop star on a regular basis. That accessibility is one of country radio’s great advantages. Artists understand what radio has meant to their careers, and many of them still treat the medium as a partner rather than just another promotional stop.

Tim Roberts leaned into the loyalty factor. Country radio listeners tend to stay with their stations. They care about the air talent. They show up for events. They respond to community involvement. Roberts pointed out that country stations have historically been deeply involved in radiothons, fundraisers, veterans’ causes, children’s charities, and local events. That presence in the community has helped country stations become more than music outlets. At their best, they are community institutions.

But the panel did not pretend the format is without problems. When Rabb asked what keeps them up at night, Hawkeye went straight to the financial realities of radio ownership. Debt, corporate pressure, and cost-cutting have led to reduced staffs and, in some cases, stations that appear to have stopped trying. He mentioned seeing stations in major markets with barely any identifiable local presence, even on their own websites. His fear is that more companies will choose that path, cutting personnel to save money while weakening the very product that gives the station value.

Roberts said one of his concerns is radio’s larger inability to tell its own story to advertisers and media buyers. He argued that radio is still delivering audience and results, but the industry has not been loud enough or coordinated enough in making that case. Rabb added that the industry could use a broader campaign promoting the value of radio itself. He pointed out that consumers can hardly find a radio department in a store like Best Buy anymore. That creates a visibility problem for the medium, even as millions of people continue to use it.

The panel also dealt with the human side of staff reductions. Andie Summers said she tells her team to keep doing the work. People are not being eliminated because they are doing a bad job. They are often victims of business realities beyond their control. That is easy to say when you are not the one losing a job, but it matters that managers and teammates make clear that talent is still valued. Roberts said managers need to be good listeners and understand where each person is in life, including their family and financial situations. Leadership during hard times requires empathy, not just strategy.

At the same time, the group acknowledged that country radio can still be a strong revenue generator when it uses its brand properly. Roberts talked about the Hoedown, an event that has helped launch careers, create memories, and generate real money for the station. Fans still talk about seeing future stars early in their careers at those events. The most powerful example was Garth Brooks, who had played the event early on and promised to return 30 years later. Roberts held him to it. Everyone signed NDAs, the appearance was kept quiet, and Garth returned for a surprise 30-minute set. Roberts described it as one of the most electric musical moments he had ever witnessed. The panel agreed: that is country music. It is loyalty. It is memory. It is the artist-radio relationship at its best.

That relationship still matters to Nashville. Roberts said artists sign with labels because they want No. 1 records, and country radio still plays a major role in creating that mark of success. A No. 1 country record is not just a chart achievement. It can help build a touring career. The panel noted that artists with multiple No. 1 hits can draw concert crowds for years. That is healthier for the entire ecosystem than a format filled with disposable one-hit wonders.

The conversation turned to syndication and how talent can sound local when they are not physically in the market. Roberts said it requires work: meeting with local sales managers, understanding the local events, supporting radiothons and fundraisers, and feeding local content to local markets. Summers, whose show is heard in multiple markets, was honest about the challenge. She said doing the homework matters, but it is hard to be truly local when there is no budget to visit the market. Hawkeye said that is where local shows still have an advantage. If he were competing against a syndicated show, he would be everywhere locally — at events, charities, and community functions — making sure listeners knew he lived there and cared about the market.

Coaching air talent was another major topic. Summers said coaching is essential. Without it, how does talent get better? She does not love traditional aircheck sessions, but she values feedback, ideas, and encouragement. She remembered an early program director who gave her tapes of successful women in radio and told her to find someone she liked, then do her own version. The lesson was not to copy, but to discover what felt authentic. Hawkeye agreed, saying good coaches point out what talent does well and encourage them to do more of it. He also said coaching can help program directors, especially when a PD does not understand how to properly manage a morning show.

Roberts connected coaching to strengths. His view is that talent should be treated almost like actors in a show. Find out what they do best, feed that strength, and help them grow. That kind of coaching is creative, collaborative, and fun — the reason many people got into radio in the first place.

The panel also tackled whether country audiences are more patriotic. Roberts said country stations often naturally lean into patriotism through red, white, and blue branding, veterans’ causes, Fourth of July programming, and patriotic songs. Hawkeye added an important caution: he does not want to judge anyone’s patriotism based on politics. Still, he acknowledged that patriotism is easy for country radio to embrace because it fits the format naturally.

Regional differences in country remain very real. Roberts said the Southwest, East Coast, Midwest, Texas, and other regions all have different musical nuances. Texas has its own country ecosystem, while Americana influences from artists like Zach Bryan are changing the texture of the format. Some artists may be huge in one region and nearly invisible in another.

AI came up as a tool, but not a replacement for personality. Summers said her show may use ChatGPT for brainstorming contest names or ideas. Hawkeye said his show uses AI more on the back end for research and blog posts, helping them quickly support on-air content with website material. But he pushed back against chasing meaningless web traffic with cat videos and recipes. Digital content should serve the show, not distract from it.

The final message was realistic but not defeated. Hawkeye compared radio’s current moment to New York newspapers in the 1960s. Too many outlets fought for a shrinking ad pie, and eventually only the strongest survived. He believes radio may be heading toward a similar correction. Some stations will die. Some may go dark. But stations with strong personalities, community connection, smart operators, and real relevance can thrive.

Country radio’s advantage remains clear. It has loyal fans, accessible artists, sellable events, emotional music, community roots, and talent that can matter locally. But none of that works automatically. The stations that survive will be the ones that keep showing up, keep coaching talent, keep helping sales, keep serving listeners, and keep proving that radio is more than a signal.

It is a business. It is also a relationship. Country radio still wins when it remembers both.

Straight Outta Hip Hop

• Damizza (SynerG Marketing)
• Funk Flex (Hot 97)
• Angela Yee (Premiere Networks)
• Skip Dillard (Audacy)
• Devin Steel (Hot 107.9)
• Moderator: Andre Yancey (Audacy)

The hip-hop panel at the Barrett Media Audio Summit turned into something more than a discussion about radio programming. It became a candid conversation about culture, talent, technology, ownership, artist development, and whether hip-hop radio can still do what it once did better than anyone else: break records, build stars, and make listeners feel connected to the moment.

Andre Yancey stepped in as a last-minute moderator and helped guide a conversation that had plenty of honesty, emotion, humor, and history. The panel included Funkmaster Flex, Angela Yee, Damizza, Skip Dillard, and Devin Steel, each bringing a different perspective on what radio has been, what it has lost, and what it still has the power to become.

The conversation began with a larger question about radio’s identity. Too many people still think of radio as an old analog button in the car. But the panel made clear that radio’s real power was never just the signal. It was programming, promotion, personality, community, discovery, and trust. Hip-hop radio was never just about playing songs. It was about neighborhoods, slang, clubs, artists, rumors, taste, and real voices telling the audience what mattered.

The panel acknowledged that pieces of radio’s role have been taken away over time. TMZ took part of the celebrity-news lane. Spotify and streaming platforms took part of music discovery. Social media took some of the immediacy. Podcasts gave audiences another way to consume personalities. Syndication, voice tracking, regionalization, and cost-cutting also removed some of the live energy that made radio feel urgent and local.

Funkmaster Flex brought history and emotion to the room. He talked about growing up in the Bronx and finding his way into DJing through the influence of Frankie Crocker, Mr. Magic, Marley Marl, Chuck Chillout, and Kool DJ Red Alert. Flex remembered how important language was to him. When Mr. Magic used phrases like “Boogie Down Bronx” and street slang on the air, it made listeners feel like radio was speaking from inside the culture, not outside of it.

Flex also talked about the old apprenticeship system that helped build radio and DJ talent. Carrying records was not just carrying crates. It meant buying food, parking cars, watching, listening, and doing whatever needed to be done to earn a place in the room. That kind of training ground has become harder to find today. There are fewer overnight shifts, fewer board-op jobs, and fewer places for young talent to learn by making mistakes before they are expected to perform on a major platform.

Angela Yee’s story showed a different but equally valuable path. Before becoming a major radio personality, she worked in marketing and entertainment, including with Nile Rodgers and later around Eminem’s world. She eventually made her way to Sirius and Shade 45. An interview with Jay-Z helped prove she had something, and from there she became part of The Breakfast Club, one of the most influential hip-hop radio shows of its era.

Yee’s story was also about reinvention. Leaving The Breakfast Club to launch Way Up with Angela Yee meant betting on herself at a time when listening habits had changed. Audiences no longer consume radio only in real time. They hear clips, watch video, listen to podcasts, and follow talent across platforms. For Yee, the opportunity was not just to do another radio show, but to build a brand that could live on-air, online, and on demand.

She also raised one of the panel’s most important points about AI and misinformation. In a world where content can feel fake, automated, or non-human, trusted personalities matter more. Yee noted that even experienced media people can be fooled by social posts that look real. That gives radio a new responsibility: not only to entertain, but to help sort through the noise.

Skip Dillard brought a broader programming and leadership view. He reminded the room that radio has been declared dead many times before. Television was supposed to kill it. CDs were supposed to kill it. MP3s, streaming, and now AI were all supposed to finish the job. Yet radio remains because it has always learned how to evolve. But Dillard also made clear that evolving cannot mean abandoning the basics. Radio still needs to be a cheerleader for its format, its artists, and its community.

Dillard said if labels are not developing artists the way they once did, radio may have to help fill that void. He also pointed to college radio, community programs, local scenes, and overlooked places as sources for the next wave of talent. The industry cannot complain about the lack of new artists and personalities if it is not willing to invest in the places where those people are formed.

Devin Steel spoke from the perspective of a programmer who came up through Memphis, college radio, DJing, production, Clear Channel, iHeart, and Radio One. He talked about having thousands of pieces of vinyl and still thinking like a DJ, but also understanding what it takes to run a modern radio brand. His biggest concern is that too many people today want the platform without doing the work.

Steel said social media fame does not automatically make someone a radio talent. A person can have followers, host a podcast, or make money online and still not know how to execute a radio show. Radio requires pacing, storytelling, format discipline, market connection, and the ability to create inside a structure. He said jocks also have to make themselves more valuable. The days of only reading liners and sending production down the hallway are disappearing. Talent needs to understand production, sales, content, client needs, and the full operation of the building.

Damizza gave the panel some of its sharpest industry commentary. He challenged radio to ask what happened to artist development and whether the business is simply going to let Spotify win. He said what he is doing now on Instagram is not much different from what he always did on the radio: short, direct, passionate breaks aimed at his core audience, which is the music business.

Damizza said radio and music have changed, but great talent has not. The challenge is finding new ways to display that talent. He also talked about the importance of passion and risk. He remembered hearing Eminem early, being told not to play the record, and playing it anyway because he believed there was something there. He said he was willing to risk his job for the record. That kind of belief, he argued, is what radio needs again.

One of the strongest moments came when Flex publicly praised Damizza. Flex said Damizza was not just someone offering opinions from the sidelines. He had done the work. He remembered Damizza’s passion at Power 106 and said his commitment to the station, the artists, the brand, and the music should not be overlooked. Damizza responded by calling Flex a beacon, saying if a record did not get past Flex, it was not really that record yet. It was a moment of respect between two people who understood the fight to push hip-hop forward.

The panel also dealt with radio’s harsh business reality. Flex put it bluntly: one of radio’s biggest problems is that companies paid too much for assets that are no longer worth the same amount. That pressure has led to layoffs, cuts, and reduced investment. But Flex also reminded the room that most people in radio did not get into the business for the money. They chose it because they loved the music, the microphone, the content, the marketing, the culture, or the connection to listeners.

The social media discussion showed how much the job has changed. Yee talked about being early to video and social content, even when companies did not always understand why giving away clips could help a paid platform. Her instinct was that clips would make people want more. Today, some of her strongest content comes from listener-driven segments, including people calling in with secrets and personal stories. That works because the audience feels involved.

Yee also said part of her connection comes from still being present in her community. She lives in Brooklyn, walks around, goes to her coffee shop, and sometimes takes the train. People see her and feel like they know her. That kind of connection cannot be manufactured by an algorithm.

As the panel closed, the message became clear. Hip-hop radio was built by people and stations that took chances: Power 105.1, Kiss, WBLS, Stretch and Bobbito, Hot 97, Power 106, Funk Flex, Damizza, and many others. It was also built by mentors and innovators who showed that radio personalities and shows could become brands.

The final advice was simple but powerful: be passionate, evolve, take chances, and mentor the next generation. Dillard said radio has to keep finding talent and artists in places it may have stopped looking. Steel said jocks and programmers need to get creative again and learn every part of the business. Yee emphasized mentorship and using new platforms to extend conversations beyond the air. Damizza called for passion. Flex reminded everyone that love for the medium is still what separates real radio people from everyone else.

The panel did not argue that radio should go backward. It argued that radio needs to carry its original spirit forward. AI, streaming, social media, podcasts, and national syndication are not going away. But none of them can replace authenticity, trust, live connection, artist relationships, mentorship, or a real human being speaking to a real community.

Hip-hop radio’s next chapter will not be saved by nostalgia alone. It will be saved by talent, courage, discovery, smart programming, and people willing to fight for the culture the way the previous generation did.

The Final 40

• Keith Dakin (Connosseur Media)
• Jeff Sottolano (Audacy)
• Greg Strassell (Hubbard)
• Jon Zellner (iHerat Media)
• Moderator: Jason Barrett (Barrett Media)

Jason Barrett led a wide-ranging executive panel focused on the state of radio, the pressures facing brands and talent, and what the industry must do to remain relevant. The panel featured Hubbard’s Greg Strassell, Audacy’s Jeff Sottolano, Connoisseur Media’s Keith Dakin, and iHeartMedia’s Jon Zellner. The discussion moved across several major themes: how success is defined today, the role of talent in revenue, music discovery, the balance between gut and data, the changing job of the program director, how people can protect their careers, and where AI fits into radio’s future.

The conversation began with the basic but complicated question of what success looks like now. Zellner said radio can no longer define success by ratings alone. Ratings still matter, but the best brands are building habits, changing minds, educating listeners, and making emotional connections. He said talent should ask themselves every day what they learned about their target listener that can be brought into the next show. If talent does not know the answer, they may need to rethink how they are preparing.

Sottolano was direct in saying that from an executive standpoint, revenue and cash flow are still the most important measurements. He said that may sound cold, but it is the reality of the conversations happening in rooms where decisions are made. However, he added that value can be created in several ways. Talent and programmers may contribute through ratings, social influence, off-platform revenue, collaboration with sales, and the culture they build inside the company. His job, he said, is to identify each person’s “superpower,” help amplify it, and support them in areas where they need help.

Dakin focused heavily on the need to connect talent with clients. He said that was one of the strongest takeaways from Funk Flex’s earlier appearance. In smaller markets especially, a talent’s relationship with a key local advertiser can be incredibly important. A morning show host who can text an auto dealer or build trust with a local business owner brings value beyond the rating book. Dakin also said he does not want talent to be “wallpaper.” He wants people who are disruptive, memorable, and capable of creating moments that listeners talk about in the grocery store.

Strassell said he wished more music radio stations had the kind of energy WFAN showed at the sports summit. Sports radio often has a sense of momentum, multiple voices, and a winning atmosphere that is easier to feel. He said music radio needs more of that “it factor.” Strassell also talked about Hubbard’s company identity around the word “connect.” When the company looked for an umbrella idea that could include radio, digital, and podcasting, “connect” quickly became the answer. He said that is not just a slogan but a North Star.

The connection theme also applied to clients. Strassell said advertiser attrition can be high in many forms of media, but endorsement spots tied to talent have much lower attrition because they are built on personal relationships. A client may cut billboards, TV, social, or general radio spending, but if they have a trusted relationship with a talent, that endorsement is harder to eliminate. He said when a jock is on a sales call, the entire conversation changes and often becomes a brainstorming session.

The panel then moved into music discovery and whether radio can still break new artists. Strassell pushed back against the idea that radio should concede that space to social media or DSPs. He said public radio and non-commercial music stations often do a better job because there is real curation happening. The talent sounds connected to the music. They tell stories about songs. They make the audience feel like there is a human being behind the choices.

Strassell said telling stories about songs is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and radio needs to bring it back. He gave the example of a rock station doing a midday show before the Indy 500 where the host played songs about racing and cars, took listener requests, and created a show that sounded spontaneous and alive. It likely went off the playlist, but it felt curated and connected to the moment. He said radio needs more of that.

Dakin said he refuses to believe radio can no longer break music. He pointed to WXRT in Chicago as an example of a station that still feels cool because it is curated and trusted. He said rock and alternative radio still have an opportunity to break the next major band, but stations have to remember they can do it and work together to support new artists.

Sottolano agreed, but said the industry has to work in a more coordinated way on artist development. The media ecosystem is fragmented, and some artists have built careers without much radio support. He said radio should support the artists who value it, but it also has to prove its value to those who may not understand what radio can still do. He said it is not an artist’s job to chase radio airplay; it is radio’s job to demonstrate why airplay matters.

Zellner said radio has to own the things DSPs cannot do. Playlists can play a song, but they cannot create theater around it. They do not have jocks, imaging, local context, artist takeovers, or a relationship with the audience. He pointed to moments involving artists like Bruno Mars and Taylor Swift as examples of how radio can still create scale and excitement around music. His point was that radio should not act like a playlist. It should do the things only radio can do.

The conversation then turned to the balance between data and gut instinct. Barrett raised the example of Damizza playing Eminem despite being told he could be fired for it. Strassell said the answer is to use both. “Research is a compass. Gut is the art.” He recalled Scott Shannon’s “desktop only” trick, where a programmer would walk into the studio, hand a talent a song, and tell them to play it right then and talk about it. That was not research-driven. It was about creating a moment.

Sottolano said there has to be room for both data-informed and intuition-informed decisions. However, he noted that programmers now have far more information about audience reaction to music than they had 10, 15, or 20 years ago. He said it would be foolish to ignore that. If he were advising programmers where to take more creative chances, he might point them toward content, promotions, community events, and off-platform ideas rather than simply blowing up the playlist.

Zellner said gut may help decide what gets into the system, but research helps determine the path a song takes once it is there. He said iHeartMedia has internal systems with thousands of data points that help determine whether a song moves up, slows down, or gets dropped. Labels, radio, and audiences all operate on different timelines, so programmers need both instinct and discipline.

The panel also discussed how the role of program director has changed. Sottolano said today’s PD has to understand multiple platforms, not just linear radio. They need to coach talent, create content for radio, and build ideas that work on digital, social, video, and podcast platforms. They also need to motivate people, because great work usually comes from people who are inspired by their leaders.

Dakin described the modern PD, especially in smaller markets, as a unicorn. Companies need someone who can keep the trains running on time while also being a creative mad genius. That person may need to manage logs, imaging, promotions, talent coaching, digital expectations, and local strategy all at once. For Dakin, the key quality is being a committed doer.

Strassell said the first thing he looks for in a PD is vision. Program directors make important decisions every week and need a clear sense of where the brand is going. He also said the future requires “community program directors” who know their markets, build relationships, and understand what is happening locally.

Zellner said the job is no longer just art versus science. Today’s PD has to be a steward of the brand, a sales partner, a motivator, and a trusted messenger inside the building. They cannot be a speed bump to senior leadership. They need to understand company strategy and explain it in a way that makes sense locally.

When the discussion turned to layoffs and career security, the message was clear: become more valuable. Strassell said content teams need to think more about revenue. Dakin said talent should become stars in their communities. Sottolano said the best talent are CEOs of their own personal brands, and work ethic is undefeated. Zellner said talent who have deep client relationships and local endorsement revenue are harder to replace because there is real revenue at risk if they walk out the door.

The panel closed with AI. Sottolano called AI an augmentation tool, useful for show prep, video clipping, and removing lower-level tasks from programmers’ plates. Zellner explained iHeartMedia’s “guaranteed human” approach, saying every voice on the company’s stations is real because trust is one of radio’s great advantages. Dakin said AI can be helpful for imaging, promotion names, and thought starters, especially for overworked programmers, but fake AI testimonials or artificial voices damage authenticity. Strassell said AI can also help teams understand platform best practices and improve social execution.

The overall takeaway was that radio’s future depends on becoming more human, not less. The industry has to use data, technology, and AI wisely, but its strongest advantages remain talent, trust, community, curation, client relationships, and the ability to create moments that playlists and algorithms cannot. The people who survive and grow will be the ones who expand their jobs before someone else does it for them.

The Mike McVay Award: Yonni Rude

Honoring a rising music programmer who elevates talent, champions innovation, and is collaborative and consistent.

The inaugural Mike McVay Award was presented to Yanni Rude, recognizing a rising programming executive who has already made a major impact across music radio. Rude’s career has taken him from Fayetteville, North Carolina, through Charleston, Richmond, Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, and now Houston, where he leads Magic 102.1 and 97.9 The Box. The award, named for one of the industry’s most influential programmers and strategists, was created to honor content leaders who have shown the ability to grow, adapt, and elevate both brands and people. Rude was praised for keeping both Houston stations among the format leaders while expanding their digital footprint and influencing everyone around him, from talent to sales to management.

In accepting the award, Rude thanked Barrett Media, Jason Barrett, Mike McVay, his SVP Colby Colb, and his Radio One Houston team. He also shared a powerful story about being a third-generation broadcaster and telling his grandfather that he had become number one across all demos in Charleston. His grandfather’s response — “Now you have their attention. What are you going to teach them?” — shaped the way Rude sees radio. For him, the business is not only about ratings or entertainment, but about teaching, connecting, uniting, and creating moments. Rude said radio’s biggest competitor is the phone, and that the industry must keep collaborating and creating solutions that serve listeners, clients, and stations. He closed by promising to keep pouring back into the business and helping prepare the next generation.

The Scott Shannon Award: Kevin Rolston

Recognizing elite music radio talent who innovate, connect, create impact, and make the industry better.

The inaugural Scott Shannon Excellence in Broadcasting Award was presented to Kevin Rolston, the longtime host of The KVJ Show in South Florida. Rolston launched the show in 1999 on Wild 95.5, and 27 years later, he remains a major presence in the market, now calling 97.9 WRMF home. Scott Shannon introduced Rolston by recognizing not only his longevity, but the fact that he is still deeply involved in the work: production, prep, bits, listener connection, and setting the tone for the show every day. Shannon pointed to the kind of audience loyalty Rolston has built, including live events that sell out in minutes and fans willing to show up at 6 a.m., as proof that The KVJ Show has created a real bond with its listeners.

In his acceptance speech, Rolston used the moment to honor Shannon’s influence on his own career and on the radio industry. He recalled interning at Z100 in New York, where Shannon’s “Worst to First” legacy still filled the building, and later learning the mindset of morning radio through Shannon’s former producer. Rolston credited Shannon with teaching generations of broadcasters to think bigger, create shared local moments, and make radio part of the community conversation. He also thanked the people who helped him along the way, including John Zeller, his KVJ co-hosts Virginia and Jason, Elizabeth Hamma, Hubbard Media, and his family. Rolston closed by thanking Shannon for inspiring broadcasters like him and for reminding the industry that great live and local radio can still matter deeply.

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