It’s easy to like Mary Menna. I should know. I just talked to her last year for the first series of “Meet the Market Manager” columns.
A lot has happened since then. Her morning show has gone into syndication, her afternoon drive host has joined the Red Sox television crew, and she is in the middle of a lot of moves.
When we spoke on Monday, she was balancing getting her daughter moved, her parents moved, and moving Beasley’s Boston cluster to a new building one station at a time. A time like this, usually triggers feelings of nostalgia. Mary told me that moving the stations has involved “rifling through 32 years of history.”
Our conversation, presented by Point to Point Marketing, is all about looking forward though. We talk about Toucher & Rich’s future in the live space, how she is preparing for sports gambling to come online in Massachusettes, managing and creating new opportunities for talent at the top of their game and so much more.
Enjoy!
Demetri Ravanos: Since the last time we chatted, ratings at the Sports Hub have stayed as impressive as ever. Obviously that changes a lot in terms of expectations. I wonder, does it change in your mind what is acceptable? I mean, after all of these 20+ ratings, could you foresee a day where something below even a 20 is unacceptable?
Mary Menna: Well, afternoon drive had a 25 in this last book. I’m really impressed throughout the very difficult past couple of years that we’ve had, with listening levels fluctuating for a lot of radio stations, not just in Boston, but certainly across the country, because listening patterns really changed that this particular brand excelled even more. I think it really speaks to the connection that they have with the audience. When things were very stressful in people’s day-to-day lives, they had companions to go to and our personalities were there for them.
So does it change my expectation? Of course. We want to continue to excel and beat our previous records. At some point, and we’re not there yet, but when you have 100% of the market you can’t go any further. I still think that we do have room to grow because we’re not there, nor do I think that realistically a brand could ever be at that level. But I think we still have some room to grow.
They’re all firing on all cylinders. I think every show is just really outperforming their past records. We’re very fortunate.
DR: So if Beasley looked at their portfolio across the nation and said that they saw opportunities to turn on new stations in other markets, how much of an adviser could you be? It stands to reason they would want to know what the Sports Hub is doing right and how they can get that elsewhere. How much guidance could you provide based on your success versus how much of it is specifically about 98.5 The Sports Hub and the Boston market?
MM: I couldn’t provide that guidance. I would leave that to the experts. I would leave that to Rick Radzik, Jim Louth and Cadillac Jack. I wouldn’t be that person.
I think every market is different, especially when you’re dealing with a very localized passion-based format like a local sports station. You know, fans in every market are a little bit different. So I think there is something to be learned from us here, but I don’t think you could just replicate it in ten different markets and expect that exact the same success. I also think it has a lot to do with the personalities that we have on air and how they’ve built that loyalty with their audiences.
DR: Unfortunately, you weren’t with us in New York, but you know that Rick Radzik was honored with the Mark Chernoff Award for Best PD. Felger & Mazz also received the inaugural Mike and the Mad Dog Award for the best local show in the country. Certainly, you guys are no strangers to those kinds of honors at the Sports Hub, but in those moments, do you take a second to sort of step back and think about all that you and the team have accomplished? I guess it sort of goes back to that first question about expectations and being the best sports radio brand in the country.
MM: Well, I think they are the best in the country. And thank you for those awards and the honors and for recognizing all of these people for all of their wonderful attributes and successes. It really is about them. I do think it is the best sports station in the country. It has the deepest connections with the audience.
DR: Toucher and Rich, since we last talked, have gone into syndication. How much of that are you involved with versus how much of that is the show sort of going out and selling itself to potential affiliates?
MM: This is something that they really wanted to do to expand their brand. Rich comes from The Kid Kraddick Show, so he learned syndication at an early stage in his career. So it was something that was important to them to branch out. So we did some exploratory research.
Actually, the person that is heading that up for us is Kraig Kitchen, who has quite a bit of experience in syndication. He’s just a wonderful person. He did some exploratory work in New England, and found there was a great amount of interest in carrying the show. Right now it is on in six markets in New England: three in Maine, one in New Hampshire, and two in western Mass.
DR: One of the things I’ve noticed every time they’re adding a new affiliate is there are a lot of rock stations, which is obviously what the show’s roots are, but there are a lot of rock stations that are taking the show just as it airs on 98.5. I wonder, were there any conversations you had to have with those guys about staying consistent? Even as you go into syndication, there are still big expectations on the Sports Hub.
MM: Of course! That is a show “sports that rock,” right? They are the epitome of that. One of the things that we wanted to be absolutely clear on is that we didn’t want the show to change.
The show has a lot of music in it. It’s got a lot of pop culture. It’s got a lot of Fred’s favorite television shows. It’s got a lot of comedy. So at the end of the day, all that mixture of comedy, pop culture and sports works on a rock station. That’s why the appeal is not just limited to sports formats. That’s why the show does work in syndication regionally.
DR: Toucher & Rich have taken their bit “Brookline 911″ and turned it into a live show. Is this the start of a new strategy for them? We talk about this a lot in the podcast space. Those audiences are loyal and support live versions of their favorite shows. It certainly seems like Toucher & Rich have an audience with the kind of loyalty that could keep these shows going for a long time.
MM: So, they did their first one on Friday. It was to a sold-out crowd of their most loyal fans, and it went really well. It was really well produced. It was funny. It was a great show. So I could see that. I could see them replicating that.
I think part of that idea started off with Matt Siegal. Matty had done one sold-out show at the Wilbur and then he did a series of them. Fred and Matt are really good friends, so I think that’s kind of where that idea started from.
DR: So I want to talk about another one of your talents now, Tony Massarotti. He is part of the Red Sox booth on NESN, as part of a rotating cast of analysts. Were there any questions you needed answers to before that deal got done or was he free to have those conversations and pursue that opportunity without needing approval of any sort?
MM: Tony absolutely was very respectful. We did talk about the pros and cons of everything together. He definitely needed us to be able to allow him to do that.
It was an important thing for Mazz. He is a huge Red Sox guy, right? He’s written several books. He was a beat writer for the Herald and the Globe. He probably knows baseball better than anybody on the staff, so when they approached him, it was something that was really interesting to him. He didn’t see it coming. He just never thought that it would happen. When the opportunity did come to him, he started thinking about it. It was very appealing to him.
I think, you know, when you asked the question earlier about “when you’re on top of the game, what are your expectations,” right? I don’t think that highly motivated people are satisfied with being at the top of their game. They always want something else, and so I think as a manager, if that happens, you have to be able to give them that space to be able to grow and to do things that take them to another level. For Tony, this was it. For Toucher and Rich, I think syndication was that for them. If there are those special things that come into their lives that are a good opportunity for them to grow, for it to be additive to the whole team, then why not?
So we did have to be very careful because we didn’t want it to impact our afternoon drive show. The Red Sox and NESN were very collaborative to try and make this work in a way that wouldn’t take them off the air. He certainly couldn’t do a whole season. It’s too many games. So we didn’t want it to impact that much of the show.
They were very workable in terms of which days and how that was going to work. Plus, Tony being the ultimate professional, he certainly doesn’t need to get to the ballpark 6 hours ahead of game time so he can go in there and do a great job. He’s really doing a great job in all aspects.
DR: You said that someone who is highly motivated is not going to be satisfied with being on top of the game. As a manager, you have to be willing to let them explore these kinds of opportunities when they present themselves. Is that something that you were taught or had to learn on your own?
Boston is certainly one of the marquee markets for sports talk radio. It’s not a surprise to me that your guys are getting these other opportunities to put the spotlight on themselves in different ways. I just wonder how you prepare for that kind of environment and learning what works and what doesn’t in terms of building trust when you’re talking about dealing with superstars in this business who have other ambitions.
MM: I don’t think it took learning. I think it’s just innate. When an opportunity presents itself you have to talk about it and get all the stakeholders involved. I mean, Rick was involved, Cadillac was involved, so we all talk about it. Tony, of course, was involved.
How can this work? If it’s going to work, how does it work? We want you on the air. We don’t want you off four days a week. You know, you take vacation anyway, how can we work this out?
We came up with a system that really kind of works for this year. Hopefully, we can replicate that and learn from whatever mistakes we might make as we go through this process. You don’t really know until you’re in it, but you try to set up some bumpers so that everybody kind of gets what they want.
Right now, we’re really very fortunate that it’s working. And Tony is just such a great guy. He’s always going to care about the the the product and the outcome and doing the right thing.
DR: Lawmakers in Massachusetts recently paved the way for sports betting to come to the state. We don’t know all the details yet, but it seems like it will happen. How ready are you to start pursuing those clients and taking advantage of that money cannon that’s about to be fired your way?
MM: Well, we’ve been talking to all of the companies for years, right? We’ve been getting ready for this day.
I’m also the chairperson of the Mass Broadcasters Association. So I have another interest involved in this issue as well. It is to try to generate more revenues for all of the broadcasters of Massachusetts so that we can continue to provide the services that we provide to the communities that we broadcast to. To do live and local radio and provide those services is costly. And especially with the pandemic happening, a lot of our member stations just have not rebounded to pre-pandemic levels. So we really do need this! Auto is still down. That is one of the largest sectors for broadcasters. So this would really give us an influx of capital that many of our broadcasters in the state so desperately need.
The House bill is pretty on target. We’re in favor of that bill. The Senate bill does come with some issues. Broadcasters, as well as leagues and teams, do not like that bill the way it is right now, so we are trying to influence some changes in it. It has some advertising bans that are pretty severe.
DR: The Senate bill is the one that says no using a credit card and no betting on college games. I’m just trying to make sure I have the two correct.
MM: No betting on college games, no advertising on anything that’s not 21 plus. And then the other issue is no advertising whistle to whistle or in the 5 minutes pre and postgame.
DR: Wow! Those are some very severe restrictions. So in your role with the Massachusetts Broadcasters Association, how much are you expecting to be at the State House lobbying and making sure that these people understand what the Senate bill could do or could keep from happening for your industry?
MM: The Massachusetts Broadcasters Association has a great lobbyist that’s been on staff for many, many years. We’re really tapping into his expertise and relationships in order to help us through this process.
DR: So in your role leading Beasley in Boston, have you reached out at all to consult Joe Bell down in Philadelphia? I mean, that area was so ready to go that it seemed like the day that sports gambling was legal everywhere outside of Nevada, that stations in and around Philadelphia were ready to take full advantage of the advertising opportunities.
MM: Joe and I haven’t really talked about this issue, but you bring up a good point I should probably tap into him.
DR: Well then I’ll let you go soon so you can make that call. The last time we spoke, one of the things that you were proud of were the COVID protocols that you had developed on the fly. You’ve since had the bulk of your people come back into the building, and I wonder what things have looked like in the building as we’ve gone through spikes and dips in the case numbers. Have people mostly been back or did you have to send everyone out again at some point?
MM My salespeople came back in July of 2020, so we’ve been back in the building the whole time. Some people never left the building.
But, unfortunately, you’re right. I think cases are spiking up again where I’m starting my COVID dashboard report every couple of weeks. I’m adding people to it and I’m taking them out of quarantine and putting them back in the system. In order to keep it all straight, I have to keep a running list.
I go, “Okay, what was your day? Zero. Okay. Oh, your son had it. When was his day zero?” And then I count and then I send them a little email and say, you’re cleared to come back on X day just so that we have it all straight. It keeps the level of panic down in the building because everybody knows that I’m on it. We’re holding people by date so that everyone else stays safe. So they feel pretty confident. The way we have been running things over the past more than two years gives them a level of confidence to be able to come to work, that they know that they’ll be safe here.
DR: It’s like a total 180 from the last time we chatted because it was right before the sales staff was starting to get ready to come back in the building. Now keeping track of this is like a necessary pain in the ass as opposed to a panic. That is a huge step forward! It may not be convenient, but it certainly beats where we were this time last year.
MM: It is, however, for a couple of months I didn’t have to have a list. “Everybody is vaccinated. People are boosted. Nobody has COVID. It’s springtime in New England. There should be a lot less of it because we’re not indoors. This is great! We’re out of it!” And then it’s like, “Oh, there’s four cases this week”. You know what I mean? But at least we all know we’re not going to die – most of us. Knock on wood.
