The past few days I’ve had the benefit of enjoying some time off and during that time I couldn’t help but be drawn more to CNN, Fox News and MSNBC as a result of the situation in Ferguson, MO. Having spent 5 years of my career and life in the St. Louis area and still maintaining friends in the area today, I was curious to find out what was going on with the chaotic situation that has been unfolding for more than a week now.
What started as a curiosity on my part to learn more about the story, ended up becoming a reminder of how important it is to handle breaking news coverage the right way. Some of this may seem obvious but as simple as it may appear, not every individual or brand handles things right when it comes to dealing with major stories that require an ability to think and react quickly and wisely.
Case in point this past weekend’s news television programming. I think most would agree that the Ferguson, MO shooting and situation between the police, protesters and looters qualified as a major breaking news story. If you work in news television then it would qualify as an all hands on deck type of situation. What occurred though was perplexing.
On the positive side, 1120AM KMOX in St. Louis was on top of the story every single minute. The station went wall to wall with on-air coverage and I saw numerous people involved with the radio station tweeting, posting photos and continuing dialogue with listeners. I could tell quickly that the brand was connected with its audience and invested in making sure they had the most up to the minute information on the story.
Dana Loesch who hosts her own syndicated radio show and works for “The Blaze” network, was also highly invested in the story and offering different viewpoints on the situation. She too was dialed in with her audience on Twitter and was supplying audio samples of things that she had gathered on the show to further help with gaining perspective.
KMOX and Dana Loesch are both St. Louis based so they had an opportunity to be closer to the situation and to their credit they took advantage of it and went full throttle on the story. In simpler terms, they played the hits and super served the needs of their audiences.
On the local television side in St. Louis, Fox-2 KTVU and News 4-KMOV did a stellar job covering the scene to provide eyewitness footage of what was taking place and they kept their focus on presenting the facts which is difficult in situations like this. So many outlets are battling for information and want to provide it to the viewer as quickly as possible so what impressed me with both stations was how they kept their standards high and just reported what they knew rather than try to become the story.
On the flip side, KSDK-4 in St. Louis dropped the ball big time. Rather than stick to reporting the news, the station became the news after they elected to sensationalize the story and show footage of the police officer’s home which had his address on the house. This caused an uproar from local viewers and led to the creation of a “Boycott KSDK” facebook page which as of last check had over 29,000 likes. Many of those people also planned to boycott outside the TV station to voice their unhappiness with the station’s lack of judgement.
The station to its credit came out and apologized after for their egregious error but the damage had been done. Poor judgement during a pivotal time cost the station its trust and loyalty from the audience and a whole lot of bad PR. One could make the case that their quest for higher ratings on this day, could cost them a lot more in the future.
Spinning it to the national side, Fox News almost always wins in the ratings because for the most part they do a good job. That top notch programming though wasn’t on display this weekend however. Instead I tuned in on 5 different occasions for coverage of the Ferguson story only to find the network showing taped programming or a quick news update. On one occasion they even presented a live show and focused content on Rick Perry’s issues in Texas rather than the Ferguson situation. That was very surprising and disappointing for a channel which is usually the first choice for news programming.
MSNBC meanwhile was slightly better than Fox News but they too were missing in action on the lead story too often. In a few instances I once again stumbled across taped programming rather than live coverage of the biggest news story in the country.
The one national network that owned the story was CNN. Anytime I put the channel on, they were focused on the story. While some of the coverage became tiresome due to repetition, they kept the focus on what mattered to most people and I felt after 3 days that if I wanted to know anything about the story from a national perspective that I could trust CNN for their commitment to it.
When stories like this unfold I think it’s extremely important to be all-in with your coverage. I can handle a listener complaining that we spent too much time on a major news story a lot better than having to explain why we were absent on it. Listeners and viewers turn to us hoping to receive information when things like this occur and if we’re not fully invested in the content that everyone is talking about, then we not only lose the audience today but we lose them in the future too when the next big event happens.
I also think it’s critical when these types of stories come up to be very smart and factual when reporting information. When I see a channel like KSDK make an error and show a police officer’s address on live television during a time when tensions are high, I can’t help but wonder which manager made the call and what repercussions they’ll have to deal with for making such a bad judgement. The last thing you want to do in a situation like this is become the story and KSDK became that for a day when they made one really bad decision.
It reminded me of a situation I went through in St. Louis back in 2007. I was programming 590 The Fan in St. Louis the day the Mitchell Report was released. A ton of baseball players had been found guilty of using PED’s and rumors began to swirl that when the list was made public, Albert Pujols’ name would be on it. Albert was the most popular figure in St. Louis and had been a great representative of the city and his being on this list would no doubt crush his public perception and put his entire career under the microscope.
Our competitor 1380AM chose to go on-air and report that Pujols was indeed on the list. At the same time, Fox 2-KTVU made the same call and decided to send a crew over to Albert’s restaurant and ask patrons how they felt about Pujols being on the list and whether or not they’d eat at his place of business again in the future.
The guys on my staff started to get antsy and wanted to run with the story and a few were starting to question why I was holding back on going with the story. I remember getting into a spirited argument with one of my guys and I told him “I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to St. Louis’ biggest superstar and if I’m late reporting on him cheating the game of baseball I can live with it….but I won’t be ok sleeping tonight if we make a decision to report him as guilty when we don’t have evidence to show that he is“.
An hour later the Mitchell Report came out and Albert Pujols’ name wasn’t on it. The staff seemed to be more relieved that we didn’t get beat to the story than happy that we were accurate but truth be told, it was a big risk. I had a 50/50 shot of being the hero or the goat and I chose to follow my gut and my beliefs which were “you’re innocent until proven guilty“. Maybe I’m old fashioned with situations like this but I’d rather be late and right than first and wrong.
The next day, I got a call from a member of Albert’s camp thanking me for how we handled the story and I specifically remember Albert expressing his disappointment with the local media during his first local news conference. Because we hadn’t presumed him guilty, he would grant a sit down interview with one of my reporters and one other local TV outlet who had also elected not to assassinate his character without evidence.
Now I didn’t care if Albert liked my radio station or not and I didn’t make that call hoping it would lead to him appearing on a show, I did it because it felt right and I believe attacking one’s character is only warranted when there’s evidence to support doing so. Going on witch hunts and reporting speculation is a dangerous area that usually results in the broadcaster having egg on their face. I can recall more personalities being suspended, fired and/or sued then those coming out on top after accusing someone of something without evidence.
It sounds basic but when breaking news happens I think you’ve got to be on top of it immediately and you’ve got to ask the right questions. As difficult as it may be, you’ve got to separate fact and speculation and do so quickly. So many people are in a rush to get content on the air that they hear one side of a story and run with it and then when the other side comes out later, they look foolish. It’s ok to report the one side that you know but how you paint the picture has a lot to do with how you’ll have to navigate the next part later on.
Even worse though is turning a blind eye to a story and pretending it isn’t there. When we first launched 95.7 The Game in San Francisco we spent a lot of time talking about these types of situations and sure enough, during our first month on-air there was a huge local story that I felt our crew did an excellent job with while our competitor missed the boat.
The 49ers and Raiders played a pre-season game at Candlestick Park in August 2011 and at that game a number of fights broke out in the stands and bathrooms. There was also a shooting in the parking lot. It was a scary situation and easily the number one story throughout the Bay Area.
Our competitor that Monday did a nice job of landing Joe Montana for an interview fifteen minutes before we did, so they had the advantage of getting the perspective on the situation first from one of the most famous San Francisco 49ers of all-time – except they never asked him about the situation.
Instead they spent 8 minutes of the interview asking Joe about the San Francisco Giants and 2 minutes on Alex Smith’s QB abilities. As soon as I heard what they were doing, I called my morning producer to make sure we had a strong plan ready for when Joe appeared with us and sure enough we did.
Joe then joined us right after that conversation and the first question from my morning crew was about the violence at Candlestick Park. We then spent the first 6-7 minutes of the interview talking about the situation with Joe and he was engaged in the topic and went as far as to tell us that when he played for the 49ers, he too saw similar situations occur in the stadium and didn’t always feel safe there. His comments would go on to make national news that day and become a topic of conversation for the rest of the broadcast day.
What happened that day was a result of good/bad strategic execution and that’s the same thing that took place this past weekend with the news coverage of the Ferguson situation.
I’ve seen people lose careers over making the wrong calls in these kind of situations and my approach is simple “dive into the story immediately, share the facts, allow for audience interaction and voice your opinion based on what you know“.
In these cases, we’re not the story – we’re simply the messenger passing along the information and giving people an outlet to express their opinion at. Your brand’s loyalty and trust are at stake and how you handle things determines whether or not your audience will turn to you again in the future.
I can tell you this, as someone who watches news television on a very limited basis, when the next major news story breaks my first stop will be to CNN not MSNBC or Fox News. It’s then CNN’s job to present the information well, keep the programming interesting and give me a reason to stay. If they don’t, then they’ve created an opportunity for their competition.
This is exactly what you’re faced with when the next big story breaks. Don’t try to be the one person in the room who thinks that just because everyone else is talking about it you don’t need to. That’s one of the biggest mistakes you can make. If you care about the needs of your audience and want their support in the future, give them what they came to you for.
It’s no different then going to see your favorite band. If they play every song that never was released and ignore the “hits“, chances are you’ll leave the show disappointed or less than satisfied. Those who crank out the tunes that everyone knows, usually benefit from having the crowd sing and dance along and spend more money on other CD’s, merchandise and tickets to future shows.
Like it or not, you work in the breaking news business and how you react to big events says a lot about your judgement and the way you value your audience. Embracing the subject, reporting the facts and allowing people an opportunity to weigh in puts you in position to form a deeper bond with the listener. Sensationalizing the content, reporting inaccurate information and choosing to ignore the story completely earns you mistrust, your brand being boycotted and in some cases unemployment.
Playing the hits isn’t difficult – you’ve just got to check your ego at the door and let the story be the star. Question is, can you do that?
Many times in life we’re presented with opportunities that force us to adjust our thinking and reconsider our original game plan. Nobody knows that better than Brandon Tierney. While he’s built a fantastic career and become one of the lead voices on national sports talk radio today, he didn’t get there without a few trials and tribulations along the way.
What makes this piece fun for me is that I have personal knowledge of some of those twists and turns due to having had the privilege of managing BT in San Francisco. What’s ironic is how similar our backgrounds are and it’s those similarities which make it easy to see why we were likely to cross paths at some point.
First, we’re both born in Brooklyn with father’s who worked for and are now retired from the NYPD. Secondly, he graduated from Marist College in Poughkeepsie, NY while I was working in radio less than a mile from the University. Third, he left NY to explore a radio career in PA, MI, NV and CA. I did the same moving to CT, PA, MO and CA. Fourth, he’s a diehard Yankees and Knicks fan. Those were my teams as well. The only area where things get muddy is when it comes to football. I was wiser and placed my faith in the NY Giants while BT fell victim to becoming a NY Jets fan. Poor guy.
Because we shared so much in common, that allowed for a very strong Program Director/On-Air Talent relationship. BT knew when he worked for me that I had his back and was going to do everything I could to support him and get the best out of him and I knew that when push came to shove and I needed strong leadership and execution from one of my prime time guys, he’d be ready to deliver. In my opinion, having that type of connection between PD and Host is vital for a station’s success.
It didn’t matter if the volume in the room got raised or if we disagreed on a subject because the goal for both of us was always the same – to win! Because we shared trust in one another and could be open and honest with our discussions, we were both able to play a huge role in the launch of 95.7 The Game and make it a special place to work at.
I can still remember two signature moments at the station when BT was with us that are worth sharing. The first was during one of our very first staff meetings when I laid out expectations for the team and gave them a realistic view of where we were and what we were going to need to do to become a legitimate contender in the market. After I explained the importance of everyone pulling in the same direction and winning their own individual battles, BT was the first to step up in front of the group and tell everyone how he wasn’t afraid of the challenge and was ready to take out his cannon and blow a hole in the competition’s building.
Instantly the room erupted with laughter and some of the guys were fired up and BT’s energy, confidence and passion was impossible not to recognize. It told everyone in the room that we were going to have fun, not be intimidated and compete as aggressively as possible.
BT was also the one to stick me with a nickname that I haven’t been able to shake to this day. When we launched the radio station we did so in an aggressive manner which fit most of our team and was easy for the younger demographic of our audience to relate to. One of the promos took some jabs at our competitor and had a monkey sound effect playing in the background which indicated that the station was being run by a monkey (If you’re a PD and haven’t been called that you haven’t arrived yet). Well BT comes on the air with Eric Davis after the promo fires and proclaims “they’ve got the chimp and we’ve got the pimp“.
I’d show up at a few broadcasts after that and have listeners approach me and ask “Are you the Pimp” and all I could do was laugh. It’s sort of like “The Godfather” nickname given to Luke Wilson in the movie “Old School”. By no means does it fit but it’s funny and people remember it. 3 years later it still hasn’t gone away.
While I could spend all day recapping our 2-year run in SF, that never would have happened had I not heard Brandon on the air in NY. The first time I heard him, he was on ESPN New York (it was 1050 ESPN at the time). Brandon was doing sports updates during the “Wally & The Keeg” afternoon drive time show and I immediately thought “who the heck is the guy doing a 2-minute talk show in the sports updates“?
He didn’t sound like the typical NY sports update anchor but he came across with a very cool sound and style and he had great passion and energy and I remember thinking “this is a guy to watch for in the future“. I had no idea at this time of his depth as a talk show host or whether or not the station had plans for him, I just remember that he stuck out. Obviously the station did have plans for him because they would end up utilizing him in a number of different roles over his 8+ year stay there.
While the on-air side of BT is easy to identify, one of the other great qualities about Brandon is how he conducts himself outside the workplace. First, he’s very loyal to his friends and family and anyone who’s been around him knows how much he loves and appreciates his wife Jen.
Second, for all the bravado you hear thru the speakers, he’s also the type of individual who will give a behind the scenes member an “atta boy” when they do a good job or some words of encouragement if they stumble. One of my current on-air personalities at 95.7 The Game (Zakariah) didn’t make the cut during an on-air competition and while he was dejected from being eliminated, BT made time to talk to him and encourage him to not give up. He then sought me out and proceeded to tell me why the guy was worth keeping around. Not every key personality on a radio station is willing to do that, especially for someone who’s unproven.
I remember opening my office door on Monday after BT had left for NYC and this note was under it (pic on the left). It reinforced that he appreciated the way I tried to make him better and as a Program Director, that’s my number one goal when working with talent. To have it recognized by the people you invest time is part of what makes the job rewarding.
I caught up with BT recently to have him put into perspective many of the experiences he’s gone thru in the industry because I thought they’d be interesting to those who are looking to reach the same level he’s advanced to. I also wanted to pick his brain on some of the key components to doing a daily talk radio show and as usual, he had plenty to say.
Q: When did you first realize you wanted to pursue a career in sports radio? What triggered it?
A: I always had a passion for writing and as the medium exploded during my college years, I knew it was a path I would pursue. Truthfully, the foundation was born much, much earlier but I never viewed it as a viable profession until I was 19 or 20. My laboratory was my basement, watching games with my Dad and reading the sports section as early as 7 years old.
After every basketball practice, my Dad and I would hit the diner and debate all of the local teams, what they needed to do in the draft, free agency, etc. I had an early appreciation for the history of sport and he sensed that and always engaged me, quizzed me and explained the different eras to me. Every car ride was in essence, a mock radio show, even though I didn’t know it at the time. Still, growing up, and even early on in college, my focus was directed at playing baseball, not broadcasting.
Q: Prior to entering the industry, which talk show hosts and broadcasters did you listen to and would list as influences on your career?
A: Options were pretty limited back then. ESPN New York didn’t exist, neither did YES or SNY. It was WFAN all day, every day. If you didn’t like Mike, you better enjoy Dog. If Dog wasn’t your cup of tea, you better like Mike’s style. There was no streaming or apps available either. Whatever your local market served up, you listened to.
I’ve always said that I’ve taken pieces from both: Mike’s attention to detail and ability to recall stats and Dog’s ability to entertain and incite. Of course, I loved Marv Albert’s work with the Knicks but Mark Jackson’s no-look passes and Mattingly’s HR trot were things I emulated, or at least tried to, not Albert’s inflection or overall delivery.
Q: Your first stint in sports radio as a daily talk show host came in Allentown, PA. How did you land the opportunity and what did you learn from that first experience in sports broadcasting?
A: I was relentless but not having much success breaking into the business. Because I played baseball at Marist, my summers still revolved around baseball, meaning my resume was pretty empty in terms of internships or practical experience. I had a Journalism degree but that was about it. I worked construction for spending money and I always kept my writing skills sharp but quite frankly, outside of having a burning passion for the medium, I wasn’t very appealing to potential employers. I even had a stint at Fidelity working in the IRA Department before finally breaking thru with a post grad internship at Fox 5’s “Good Day New York.”
I was still living at home in Brooklyn and had to be at the studio by 3:30 every morning and I’d listen to Joe Benigno on the way in and really appreciated how raw and real his delivery was. By then, radio was like a drug for me. I remember locating a website with every sports radio and television station in the country and sent my resume, basement demo tape, head shot and cover letter everywhere. Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Wyoming, etc.
Most ignored me, while a few sent rejection letters, until finally, a tiny station in Allentown responded and said they were looking for a co-host for their morning show. The station had one sales person, a few desks and a sparse studio but it had a microphone and in my heart I knew it had my name on it. Before entering the office for the interview, I went to the rest room, took one knee, and prayed over the sink, kind of like Rocky did in his corner before hearing the bell. I knew absolutely nothing about the business, the equipment, the FCC…nothing. But I knew I had a lot to say. Everything else I learned on the fly and it was awesome.
Q: From Allentown you moved to Las Vegas for a little bit to work for the Sports Fan Radio Network. That then helped land you in Detroit where you were hired by WDFN. How did the Detroit situation come about and how would you characterize your experience in the motor city?
A: I’ve always pointed to Detroit as the most pivotal point in my career. Allentown got me in the door, Sports Fan increased my exposure but Detroit was my first true exposure with a rabid and territorial fan base. WDFN was one of our affiliates for Sports Fan and I remember bombarding Gregg Henson with e-mails and phone calls regarding a full-time on-air opening he posted on Rick Scott’s industry site, which I did not get. He liked me but didn’t think I was ready and he was right. I remember sitting in my kitchen in Las Vegas a few months later and Gregg offered me a Sat/Sun shift along with a few other clerical things to make ends meet financially. It was a big risk because it was limited hours with zero benefits but we connected. He told me to trust him and that in a few months he expected a big corporate shakeup but couldn’t divulge any details. Within five days my car was packed and I drove from Nevada to Detroit.
Several months later he called me into his office, closed the door and congratulated me on becoming the new midday host. I was flying solo and that really helped me ease into being myself on-air. A few weeks after I took over middays, he called me into his office and let me have it. He implored me to stay true to my roots and let it rip. That’s definitely when something clicked. His exact words were: “You’re a New Yorker, so you already have one strike against you here, these people bleeping hate you. Bleep them. I hired you because you have balls. Bleep them, and do your thing. The city will eventually embrace you.”
Eventually, I developed a strong rapport with Pistons HC Rick Carlisle and the ice thawed. I worked hard to establish credibility with the fans, players and Pistons front office. I was always at Comerica Park, even though the Tigers were terrible. I treated the Lions with the same passion after a loss the way I treated the Jets. I locked in, worked my ass off, hustled, and began to blossom. I was young, a little crazy, and it just worked.
I also learned about the business side in Detroit and took my first stand with management and eventually walked away from a contract extension because I thought it was way below market value, which it was. I hadn’t yet hired an agent and Clear Channel attempted to leverage my youth against me. I actually cleaned out my desk after a show, went back to my apartment, got drunk and tried to convince myself that I didn’t just destroy my career. A very, very pivotal point for me and something I am very proud of.
Q: Next you got the call to head home to NY to join 1050 ESPN and while at the station you’d climb the ladder and land a spot opposite Stephen A. Smith which immediately put you under the biggest microscope of your career at that time. How was it working with Stephen A. and what were the best/worst parts of the experience?
A: I’ll never forget our first show together. We were in two different locations: he was in our Manhattan studio and I was on remote on the LIRR platform outside of Shea Stadium for the Mets home opener. We never met before and while he might conveniently forget this, he was a bit dismissive at first and obviously that wasn’t flying on my end. I wouldn’t say that the first segment was contentious but it was certainly uncomfortable, choppy and lacked flow. During the first break, I’m staring into space wondering what the hell I just got myself into and literally the first phone call we take the next segment, the caller welcomes SAS to the station and jokingly but sternly cautioned him to “watch it with BT. He’s sharp, has a lot of fans and will become a big asset to the show.”
That thawed the ice, we both laughed and the next day in studio, we clicked immediately.He was new to radio and I as carving out my turf but I let him know that I had his back and wasn’t looking to mow him down. At the end of the day, he’s from Queens and I’m from Brooklyn, and things flowed naturally.
Stephen A. is incredibly generous, smart and fair, and he is one of the great, unique talents to ever work in our medium. I’ve said it before and I still believe if ESPN had let us vibe and in essence stayed out of our way, we would have owned the city. It was a unique, combustible, energetic and funny show. Years later, a few key management figures acknowledged to me that they made a big mistake breaking us up and micro-managing the show. No regrets, as I am a big believer in everything happening for a reason but when it comes to Stephen A, I will always have his back and he’ll always have mine.
Q: Once that show ended, you were paired with Jody Mac who was a familiar name and voice to NY sports radio listeners. How would you describe that experience and how was it different from working with Stephen?
A: Totally a different speed but very, very enjoyable. Jody Mac has a heart of gold and brings his hard hat to work every day. He’s always ready to scrap and knows something about everything. I knew that if I mentioned a key play in the Cardinals game or the Nuggets game from the night before, even though we were local in New York, he was always up to speed. It was a fun blend of Mac’s old school methods and my approach, which can fluctuate between old and new school.
I remember the day I set up Jody’s Twitter account after months of prodding. We let the audience know and it was my goal to get him 1000 followers in one hour and just as we hit the post for a :10 legal ID to end the show, one more cranked in and it hit four digits, and I signed off. Great guy, heart of gold, easy partner.
Q: After nearly 9 years you parted ways with ESPN NY. When you look back on the overall experience with the station, how would you sum it up?
A: Overall it was very positive and I’m extremely proud of my time with ESPN. The power of the company expanded my platforms and reach and was a key period in my career, opening pivotal doors with TV and Knicks radio broadcasts.
It also introduced me to the corporate structure of the 4 letters, which at times, for talent, is frustrating. Bristol’s idea of radio is very different from what works in New York. New York is loud and at times, uncomfortably loud, which at times, they resisted, particularly with me. It always felt more as a vehicle for TV, rather than a true, conventional radio station.
Q: Following ESPN NY, you moved to San Francisco to help launch 95.7 The Game. How did that situation come about and what made moving to SF appealing to you?
A: I remember sitting on my couch in Hoboken, weighing a PM drive opportunity when I received a text message from you, urging me to consider the Bay Area before jumping into anything else. I was married less than five months at the time, and my wife and I felt an immediate surge of excitement. The Bay Area was appealing from minute #1: the lifestyle along with the vibrant sports scene pushed it right to the top of the list.
I could tell that you and I shared quite a bit in common too other than being loud and opinionated so once you shared your vision for the station and I visited a few times, I knew I could trust you and it felt right. We were all in and thrilled we did so. Two wonderful years in an amazing city that Jen and I will never forget.
Q: While at 95.7 The Game, you hosted PM drive opposite former NFL Cornerback Eric Davis. What was the best and toughest part of working with a former athlete?
A: Specifically with ED, we were trying to develop show chemistry without knowing each other, so understandably, our first obstacle was learning how to trust one another. It seems easy but it’s not, not under the umbrella of pressure to achieve ratings growth while helping launch a new sports station versus KNBR, one of the industry titans.
The toughest part of that was again, being an outsider and being an outsider from New York, which equates to immediate resistance from fans. My in-your-face style was a different vibe than most of the sports talk in the Bay Area and it was a constant battle to win people over. Every segment felt like a cage match, battling to prove that I was the best man for the job.
ED is very laid back so we needed to find common ground, which eventually happened. I learned so much about the actual game of football from him that it’s impossible to do it justice in this piece. The mind of a pro athlete, the business side…all things I gained by working with him. An obvious plus were his contacts and Super Bowl crew. Montana, Rice, Deion and Roger Craig…you name the star, we had him on our show.
Q: You then left 95.7 The Game to help launch the CBS Sports Radio Network where you’re hosting morning drive with Tiki Barber and Dana Jacobsen. How would you describe the experience of doing national network programming so far?
A: I absolutely love the blank canvas my national show provides me with. I enjoy discussing topics more than games at this point being that it’s more stimulating. Gay athletes, domestic violence…pertinent issues that society deals with, we are able to dive into those issues deeper on the national scene than I would locally. The local teams fuel are the local heart beat, but when executed properly, national shows can provide more poignant moments, in my opinion.
With over 150 affiliates nationwide, the feedback from listeners is more diverse and less stale. Don’t get me wrong, there are elements of local radio that I absolutely miss, but a national forum is an incredible gift. Specifically, the show has grown tremendously, We have more fun. Our quirks and defects are coming thru, and we embrace them, which humanizes the show.
Q: What are the biggest differences in how you approach hosting a show nationally vs. locally? Do you have a preference in either of them?
A: On the national level, you essentially check your affinity for baseball at the door, which for me at times is tough. Football drives the engine, and aside from the NBA Playoffs with Lebron or free agency or Tiger Woods or social issues that develop, it’s pigskin 24/7. Baseball is dying a slow death nationally, which saddens me, but I’m smart enough to recognize that. Quite frankly, it was an adjustment I was reticent to make at first but I have. It’s a regional sport and in some markets, it remains fertile: New York, Boston, Philly, St. Louis and the Bay Area come to mind. For the most part however it’s all about football. As for preference, I truly enjoy both for different reasons because they are two different types of shows.
Q: When doing a show, what order of importance do you place on the following: Interviews, Callers, Using Audio, Debate Between Hosts and Entertainment Stories (not sports)? Why?
A: For me, the template for a radio show, particularly when there are three people involved, revolves around compelling stories that spark debate. Not contrived debate but genuine and sincere disagreement. When plotting out my show, I envision a blank canvas with no calls and no guests and I go from there. As a morning show, it’s nice to ease into the program with personal stuff. I might even relay a disagreement my wife and I had the previous night because it’s something everyone can relate to. People are starting their day and for the most part, no one cares about how the Yankees or Tigers lost last night. If it’s big enough, like instant replay or a brawl or a serious injury, we’ll hit it early, otherwise I leave it for Dana’s update.
While negotiating with CBS, it was made clear that we will take calls, which was very important to me. I feel it adds a certain pulse that is necessary and if screened and handled properly, is a real asset for our network. We interview actors, authors and of course A-list sports figures too. If we think you can enhance our program, we will bring you on. If you’re boring and lack opinions or substance, you won’t be around long. Doing interviews just to kill time will never fly on my show. Lazy radio kills me.
Q: You’ve learned from some talented programming minds such as Eric Spitz, Gregg Henson, Kevin Graham, Michael Thompson, Justin Craig, Scott Masteller and myself. What have been some of the biggest takeaways you’ve gained from these people and how do you apply them in what you do on-air today?
A: Very different people with very different management styles and thoughts on what makes a compelling show. I learned quite a bit from Scott Masteller in terms of properly using sound to enhance segments and to effectively tease forward, which is something you also believe in. Succinctly teasing without giving it away was always a challenge for me because for a long time, in my mind, more words equated to a more powerful delivery. Not necessarily true. Also, playing sound just for the sake of playing sound is a big crutch in our business. Use sound to punctuate a point or to bridge something together.
Gregg Henson was the first PD I worked for who encouraged guy talk, which is key and he also helped me find my natural personality on-air. As for Eric Spitz, he’s seen it all and has a very calm and cerebral management style, which I like. He also has our back. Every PD will say that but sometimes it feels hollow and talent can sniff that out immediately. It’s a true partnership and Spitzie is terrific.
As for you, if I was starting a station tomorrow, you’d be sitting in one of the key offices making key decisions. People want to follow you, work for you, succeed for you. One of the brilliant minds in our industry and I can honestly say that you tightened up my game and made me better.
Q: If there’s one aspect of your game that you consider to be your strong suit what would you say it is? Where do you feel you need to improve still as an on-air talent?
A: Natural energy and charisma are big strengths for myself. I have a general enthusiasm for flipping open a microphone, being engaged in the content and immersed in whatever is topical. At the end of the day, I am extremely motivated to meet the challenge of taking an otherwise benign topic and presenting it in way that provokes thought and stimulates conversation. Think of any topic as a tree, once you move past the root and the first few obvious branches, what’s next? That’s what separates the good from the great and that is what I strive for. Every branch represents unique opportunity.
In terms of improving, everyone can improve, even absolute strengths. If a golfer shoots a 66, next time, hit the putt on 18 and finish with a 65. I am striving to get better at every aspect of radio and TV and that will never change. I truly enjoy interviews and take pride in getting answers others might not get. It’s like a boxer: going for a one shot KO is foolish; work the body, loosen ’em up, then drop the uppercut. It’s an art, something I strive to perfect. If I happen to piss you off along the way, tough.
Q: In order to continue improving as a talent and as a show, what are some ways you and your colleagues focus on measuring your growth?
A: Our barometer is pretty simple: did we laugh and did the show move? Did we deliver what the audience expects? Did we ask the pertinent questions? Did it feel big? There’s an internal mechanism every good radio show host must have but you have to be honest with yourself. I have no problem saying out loud “that segment sucked, let’s pick it up” once we hit break. We’ve worked hard to create fun, fast segments that are aimed at grabbing the audience.
Q: Outside of your show you are very active with your followers on social media. Not all personalities believe though that they should do that. Why do you believe it’s important?
A: It’s an extension of my show and allows me to express myself without filter or time restraints. I honestly enjoy being able to chat with true fans as much as I enjoy the challenge of trying to convert critics. Plus, not everyone that follows me on Twitter listens to my radio show. Some watch me on TOPS on CBS Sports Network, others have listened to me thru the years calling St. John’s basketball games. It’s a way to put everything in one big blender, hit mix, and see what whips up. I’m accessible, I’m not hiding.
Q: For someone considering a career in our industry today, what advice would you like to pass along to them?
A: Before you waste a penny on resumes, CD’s, postage or head shots, walk to the nearest mirror and stare at the reflection. Lock in on your eyes, and self-assess in the most honest manner possible. Are you willing to relocate and bounce from station to station with no assurances of future success or riches? Are you a grinder? Is it a passion? Does radio pump blood to your heart and oxygen to your brain? Does it stimulate your senses to the point that you cannot imagine being fulfilled without it? If the answer isn’t emphatically yes, make a u-turn, save yourself the trouble and find a conventional job because you will fail.
Brandon Tierney can be heard throughout the country weekday mornings from 6a-9a EST on the CBS Sports Radio Network. For more information on his show with Tiki Barber and Dana Jacobsen click here. You can also follow Brandon on Twitter by clicking here.
That quote above from Shane Battier paints a great picture of what is required for teams to come together and accomplish their goals. Everyone plays a critical role in the direction of the team and without full support from everyone involved, success becomes much harder to achieve.
Another one of my favorite quotes comes from The Rock who was working for the WWE back in the 1990’s-2000’s. He became notorious for delivering the line “Know Your Role and Shut Your Damn Mouth” and when uttered on a live microphone, audiences would eat it up. While the phrase was primarily created to fire up rowdy wrestling fans, the first 3 words of his catch phrase are extremely important to what we do each day that we’re on the air.
To start out this piece I’d like you to do an exercise tonight. Trust me, it’s painless and chances are it’s something you likely already do. Tonight when you arrive at home, I want you to turn on your television and watch a sitcom. If sitcoms aren’t your cup of tea, put on a movie. By the time the program is done, I want you to reflect back on the program and see if you can identify the main storyline, the key characters in the show, the roles the key characters play and the way those characters connected with you.
I believe the TV and film industries do a fabulous job with role definition on various shows and featured films. The sports radio industry however has some catching up to do. When you look on the screen, characters are built up prior to being introduced and then they are explained and reinforced with key branding messages. They rarely stray from what you expect them to be and that makes it easy for audiences to identify with them while getting sucked into storylines with regularity.
Think for a second of some key television shows and how they’ve connected. If you watched American Idol in it’s heyday, you turned on the channel to either love or loathe Simon Cowell. If you watched The Sopranos you either wanted to see Tony Soprano get away with murder or get a taste of his own medicine. In both cases, they had characters around them who offered something entirely different and that kept the show fresh, interesting and unique.
If you look at it in simpler terms, one medium scripts it’s work, perfects its performance, defines it’s people and delivers content that an audience adjusts their routines to consume, enjoy and connect with each week. The other operates off the cuff and puts the power of a content presentation usually in the hands of 1-2 people with very limited support around them. It’s the equivalent of throwing a good swimmer in the middle of the ocean without a life preserver and asking them to find a way to shore when there’s no sign of land.
That being said, those who earn the responsibility of working without a net are often stubborn and not always accurate when it comes to making decisions that are in the best interest of the audience. In many cases they don’t understand their role on a show or the way they’re perceived thru the eyes and ears of the audience. Even worse, sometimes they don’t want to play to the audiences expectations even if they do understand them.
I recall meeting with a show during my time in St. Louis and when I asked one of the two hosts to define how he felt the audience saw him, he said he felt they’d say he was passionate and entertaining. This was a guy who was your typical sports television anchor, very smart, informed, well prepared and usually reserved. By most people’s standards he was a great guy. However, passionate and entertaining he was not.
His partner on the other hand was a polarizing figure who the market either loved or hated and he too responded by telling me he was seen as a smart, likable, funny and well rounded personality. He wanted to be liked because at his core he was a great human being but his stances on subjects were very divisive and therein lied the struggle for this individual.
When I told both of them they had no understanding of the way the audience saw them they seemed perplexed. I then went thru some examples of how they could strike a chord with people and why the imaging we had in place was written the way it was done to promote them. When they left the room, they had a better idea of why I felt they were struggling and suggestions on how to fix it but they kept trying to identify with a role that they had built up in their minds yet wasn’t seen the same way by the audience. The end result was an under performing show that eventually had to be replaced.
I can’t even tell you how many times this occurs. Personalities sometimes want so badly to be something they’re not that they’ll try to overcompensate by doing things out of character and even worse, they’ll try to reject the way they’re positioned on the air in promos, liners and in station marketing pieces. The problem with that is that it’s not just about the PD’s vision or the personality’s opinion on who they think they are, it’s about connecting with a listening audience and playing the role of a character that they identify with. Let me give a few examples of role definition and why I believe it’s important for shows.
In San Francisco my afternoon drive time host Damon Bruce has a lot of strong opinions, he delivers his views with a ton of passion and he’s been known to ruffle a few feathers from time to time. You could say he’s not everybody’s cup of tea but whether he’s loved or hated, people know where to find him and usually have an opinion about something he said.
Now we could pretend that Damon isn’t edgy or hasn’t made a few folks uncomfortable along the way with his takes but that would be silly because the audience is smarter than that. Instead we positioned the show with some aggressive style promos prior to launching it, we reinforce his strong takes in the promos that we run and we use a godzilla-like stinger heading into breaks which gives the show some extra edge and personality.
The bottom line is we embrace what he brings to the airwaves and reinforce that position. Whether it’s everyone’s taste or not is irrelevant because the fact of the matter is it’s an accurate reflection of Damon’s on-air personality and when you put on his show he’s going to provide a compelling listen and not be afraid to take certain positions that others might not. That in itself makes branding the show pretty easy and the way it’s imaged and branded is in line with the expectations of the listener.
More times than not, brand building with a solo host is pretty simple. All you need to do is take a look at some of the characteristics that they possess and get a sense of what the audience expects from them and then play to those strengths. I often like to use music bumping in from breaks that fits the individual and their style to reinforce the mood and I think that writing liners that reinforce the personality’s key traits inside of the show is another smart tactic.
On the other hand if you look at how a 3-person show is built, it’s a whole different animal. It’s similar to creating a big three in the NBA.
For example, LeBron James in Cleveland will likely be expected to take the last shot, play smothering defense, be the vocal leader and attack the rim every chance he gets. Kyrie Irving will be asked to run each play, put his teammates in position to get good looks at the basket and serve as a complimentary scorer when LeBron needs help. And once the Kevin Love trade is finalized, Kevin will be asked to rebound the basketball, crowd the paint and light it up from outside when he’s able to break free. Each player is crucial to the team’s success but each of them takes on a different role to best help the team win.
I have a theory that I’ve developed when it comes to 3-person shows. In most cases it’s worked out alright even though sometimes the individuals playing the roles inside the show may not always embrace it. Coming up early in my career in NY I worked on a few different morning shows with a variety of characters and I remember being told that when it came to group shows, you want to strive to combine people from different backgrounds and in a perfect world, if you can pinpoint the “deer, dick and dork” on a show then you’re in great shape. That line always stuck with me and made a lot of sense.
If those buzz words seem harsh, feel free to substitute the terms “the hero”, “the villain” and “the neutral one” (often this is the journalist, the stat person, the PXP broadcaster, etc.). Just because you have three guys though who fit these terms doesn’t mean the show is going to work. They still need to have chemistry, be entertaining and discuss the right subjects but assuming those things are in place, when you have three people fitting descriptions that make them easy to identify, that’s a huge win. Remember, it’s about connecting with an audience and people are more likely to recall individuals on the air who they can easily identify.
As an example, when I was in St. Louis I had an awesome afternoon show at 101 ESPN titled “The Fast Lane“. The show as consistently top 3 and even went to #1 and while each guy was extremely talented, the reason it was so successful was because each guy naturally fit the role he was playing and he didn’t try to run from the perception of how he was seen.
In Randy Karraker’s case he came across most times as the “dork” simply because he was so damn informative and the guy you most likely learned the most from listening to the show. He was also the radio captain of the show handling all the formatics. Bob Ramsey meanwhile played the “dick” role because he wasn’t worried about popular opinion and sometimes would get a case of the red ass and not think twice to light someone up. The third member was D’Marco Farr and he came across as the “dear” due to being a big lovable teddy bear on-air and a member of the Rams Super Bowl 34 championship team.
This doesn’t mean that Bob was a jerk and couldn’t be positive or that Randy wasn’t lovable or a hard ass too but rather than trying to complicate things, each of those guys embraced their roles on the show, played them to perfection and as a result, audiences related to and connected with them and made them a household brand in the market. Because they were all naturally different and because they worked at developing their chemistry and embracing their differences, they had a lot of success.
The purpose of this piece today is to get you to think about your show, your brand and how you position it to the marketplace. Are you using the right buzz words to identify yourself? Are you trying to play the role of someone you’re not? Do you have a show you’re involved in that has too many of the same type of styles and not enough variety to stand out? Those are the things that you’ve got to examine if you want people to form deeper relationships and stronger opinions on your presentation.
I’ll say this, one show that gets this probably better than anyone is Mike and Mike. Some guys will quickly say they love the show and tell you every reason they do and when they do that, they’re almost always restating the key words that have been built around the Mike and Mike brand.
Those who don’t like the show will almost always call it corny or proceed to complain about one of Golic or Greeny’s traits that are highlighted in the marketing approach of the show. That is the beauty of role definition and character development. If you can pinpoint who does what in each show, what the individual is about and why you love/hate the personality or show then you likely have a winner on your hands and few will disagree that Mike and Mike have been a winner for a long time. Here’s an older TV commercial of theirs that captures their differences and highlight who they are as personalities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b146pasyO0E
One thing I like to do prior to the launch of a show is assemble the people involved in the show in a room and write some words on a board that the group feels reflect the individual positively and negatively in the minds of the audience. Often times talent will see them, write things down, counter them, inquire more on why the audience sees them a certain way and by the time they’re done in the room, they have a stronger idea of who they are to the audience and what they’ll need to do to reinforce their character and add to it in order to form a stronger connection.
This doesn’t work with everyone but if you can get your crew in a room and they’re open minded and willing to self-analyze and allow some outside feedback to better help position the show, it can be very helpful.
Remember, who we are as people and who we are on the air can be very different sometimes but once that light goes on and the microphone is hot, all that matters is finding a way to connect the audience to your on-air persona. When you’re able to do that, it can be very powerful and put you on a path to superstardom. I’m sure you’d agree that creating the radio equivalent of Seinfeld, American Idol or The Sopranos wouldn’t be bad for your career. So what’s stopping you?
Every Program Director has a different approach when it comes to hiring people so take that into account as you read through this column. I can only speak to my own philosophy and experiences but for what they’re worth, I’m happy to share how I do things. As you pursue future opportunities in the industry, don’t assume that my way is going to work for you in other markets because chances are it won’t. None the less here’s a few things I consider important in the hiring process.
1. Build Relationships First: If you’re looking to be considered for a position at any radio station, don’t wait until you see a job posting for an open position. This is a business that is very much built on who you know and what you’ve done. You can go into Walmart and apply for a job and they’ll call you if they have an opening, Radio works differently. Chances are, I’ve got a number of people in mind for an opportunity before I even post the position for my radio station. Why? Because any solid PD is thinking about the change in his or her building before anyone else is. During the posting process I’ll receive a few applications which stand out and catch my eye but usually I’ve already got an idea for a few different roads to pursue before I turn to the unknown. All the more reason why getting to know the PD prior to a job posting can be important.
2. Follow Instructions: If a job is posted and gives specific instructions of how to proceed and you don’t have a relationship already with the PD, follow them precisely. For example, if it says “no calls please” don’t be the one person who thinks they’re going to stand out because they did what the posting said not to do. While you may think that type of aggressiveness is going to stand out, it will but in a very negative way. If I’ve taken the time to tell you how to approach me and the company for a possible opportunity, following instructions is important. If your first move is to show me that you can’t follow instructions then how can I trust you if I were to hire you? In the past I’ve had people follow me into elevators, approach me in the urinals at ballgames, show up at radio station events when I was with my family and even track me down at a train stop after I posted that I was heading home on Twitter and in every situation, the candidate was not hired. I recognize you’re hungry for an opportunity but so are others who follow instructions and trust in their body of work being good enough to generate attention and a response.
3. Are You Qualified For The Opening: If you’re applying for an on-air position and have never done a radio show, why exactly are you applying? I realize it’s a cool job and we all think we can do it but just because you make your friends laugh or you know every sports stat known to mankind doesn’t mean you’re qualified to entertain an audience for 45 minutes an hour. I may think I can do a better job than the president but that doesn’t make me qualified to run the country and occupy the white house.
4. Are You a Proven Difference Maker: If you’re an on-air talent and haven’t had ratings success, PD’s will find out. If you’re in a weekend or night-time position and looking to take the next step, PD’s will ask you why those in your own building don’t think you’re good enough to crack their daytime lineup yet you expect someone else to see you differently who hasn’t even worked with you. I’m not saying that to be a hard ass or to crush your dreams, I’m sharing it because when you’re hired as a weekday talk show host in a prime daypart, there’s an expectation that comes with it. The PD is saying to his/her bosses that you’re good enough to generate ratings, experienced enough to deliver results for advertisers and the type of individual who will be a great teammate, a strong representative for the brand in the community and someone who will foster relationships with teams and local players which will be beneficial to the product. I’m not saying you can’t go from weekends/evenings in a market to prime time in another because it has happened but I’m telling you that it’s not easy and doing it in a top 5 market or on a national network is going to be extremely tough.
5. Show Your Unedited Work: When you submit a demo, don’t send something that makes you look good for 2-3 minutes but can’t be duplicated when you get in front of a microphone. Numerous times I’ve received a good MP3 or CD and I’ll follow up with a candidate and when I have them come to the studio to hear how they sound, I find out that they had 2 good minutes courtesy of a good Adobe Audition editing job. The reality is this, unedited tape doesn’t lie. Chances are you’ll send me an hour of tape and I won’t listen to all of it. That said, something interesting or funny right away will get my attention and keep me intrigued. It’s no different than what I tell my on-air hosts and what other PD’s tell theirs. If you don’t grab a listener’s attention quickly, they’ll tune you out. Come to the table with something that showcases your style, originality and unfiltered opinion and you have a shot at keeping my ear. If you can do that, I’m likely to at least touch base to have a discussion. Also understand that if a PD doesn’t like your work right now, that doesn’t mean they won’t in the future. If they tell you to work on some things, apply the feedback and make sure the next time you submit something that it reflects progress. That attention to detail tells a PD you’ll accept coaching and that’s something PD’s seek out of the people they hire.
6. Network, Network, Network: Between the radio station’s website where you can obtain the email to the PD and social media sites like LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram where many of these same PD’s have accounts, are you connected to them on any platform? Furthermore, have you gotten to know others who work inside the radio station? The more people you know and the more relationships you build, the more likely you are to attract people’s attention. I remember being at 590 The Fan in St. Louis and a guy came in the door wanting to pick the brains of some of our personalities just to find out how they approach their jobs. His research stood out and he was a young guy looking to break into the business. About 2 years later I was launching 101 ESPN in St. Louis and the same guy applied for a Board Operator job just to get his foot in the door and I wound up hiring him. It was that initial visit to my previous building and a few notes in between that caught my attention and impressed me. His name was Aaron Goldsmith and he was the first board operator to put 101 ESPN on the air and now he’s the play-by-play announcer for the Seattle Mariners. He understood the value of networking and so should you.
7. Set Realistic Goals: PD’s talk to one another much like NFL Head Coaches talk to each other. We may not discuss strategies or company secrets but we do provide feedback when asked for it. If you’re an individual sending resumes and airchecks to 20 PD’s in 20 different markets, chances are everyone knows you as the “I’ll work anywhere” candidate. If you’re applying for the board operator, producer and on-air host position then you’re the “jack of all trades, master of none” candidate. I mention these two specifically because any dynamic and entertaining on-air personality who can move the needle for a radio station would never apply for a Board Operator or Producer position. Be smart when you apply and remember, PD’s have long memories. We know when you’ve applied 6 months earlier, 2 years earlier and in some cases even 5-10 years earlier. Know what it is you want to pursue, give good evidence to support why you believe you’re qualified and then follow up when appropriate. If you’ve got the talent to attract a PD’s attention, trust me they’ll be in touch. If they’re not then either you’re not a fit for that specific PD or market or your talent for the position may not be as strong as you may think it is. I will also tell you that if two people are equally qualified for a position and one is local and one isn’t, almost 99% of the time the call is going to go to the person who is already in the market and knows the local scene. If you want to work in a specific market and you’re not there, you may want to think abut relocating first and then continuing to chase opportunities at the radio station.
8. Understand The Job Description: Too many times candidates interview for a specific job and then proceed to explain why the radio station should adapt to fit them as opposed to the individual explaining how they can help fit the position. You may eventually land a bigger opportunity in the company if you’re good but it’s not going to come without doing the current job in front of you first. If a baseball team needs a lead-off hitter who can take pitches, draw walks, get on base and steal bases, do you think they’re going to put someone in that spot who hits for low average and swings at every pitch they see? It’s no different here. If I need a producer who can book guests, produce promos and rejoins, screen calls and make quality cuts, that’s what I expect to be done. If your true ambition is to be on the air that’s fine but you’re not going to get that opportunity at the expense of a prime time talk show. Do the job you were hired to do, request to earn more opportunities and be truthful about your goals and if you’ve built a good relationship with your PD, they’ll give you a chance to go into a production room and put some material on tape, critique it and if it’s good enough, throw you a weekend or overnight shift to see how you do. It’s all about going through the process and having the talent to do the job but you’ve got to touch first base before you proceed to second.
9. The Actual Interview: When you get called to come in for an interview, be on time. You should also show up looking professional. You don’t need to be in a 3-piece suit but you may want to save the running pants and short sleeve t-shirt for another day. Andre Agassi once said “image is everything” and whether it’s fair or not, PD’s want to know that they’re bringing in people who understand that they’re working in a place of business and can present themselves well. In addition to being punctual and presenting yourself well, let the PD guide the conversation. You’re walking in and trying to sell yourself and why you can help the brand but for the PD they can only find out about you by asking questions and seeing how you respond. If you’re confident in yourself they’ll see it and those who can adapt and stay loose, conversational and engaged in discussion will stand out. If you’re shy, quiet, nervous or breaking out in a sweat, chances are the PD’s made mental notes and they’re not going to be favorable.
10. Follow Up: If you interview for an opportunity and don’t get the nod, your career isn’t over. The right thing to do, is follow up and thank the PD for their consideration and let them know you’d like to be kept in consideration for future opportunities. In many situations there are a lot of qualified candidates for an opening and only 1 person gets hired. Those who act professionally when they don’t get the call stand a better chance of being thought of favorably in the future, especially if they remain employed in the business and continue working at their craft. I have a number of people in this business who I keep on a short-list and if situations pop up and I need help, I’m very likely to call on them. What doesn’t work is when someone follows up and proceeds to blast the candidate I hired or fires personal insults my way because they weren’t hired (it’s happened before). Before I got my opportunity with ESPN in 2004, I had reached out a year earlier to Bruce Gilbert and what I was pitching wasn’t needed by the network at that time. I thanked him for considering me, asked him to hold on to my materials and reminded him that if a need came up in the future, I was ready, willing and able to get to work. As luck would have it, one year later he had an opening and because I connected well during the previous process, I was given a chance to interview and ultimately landed the job. While the call may not always come the first time, it certainly won’t come a second time if you don’t conduct yourself the right way.
As I finalize this column, I’d like to share a personal story that applies to this subject. When I entered this business, I hoped to one day be good enough to work at WFAN in NY. For years I reached out to Mark Chernoff seeking his feedback and because I didn’t bombard him regularly, he’d provide me with some of it. I gained a solid understanding of what I’d need to do in the future to earn consideration for a job there, and I’d keep working on the things he told me needed improvement.
After 8 years, I finally received an offer to work for WFAN as a FT Producer and as crazy as it sounds, I rejected it. ESPN presented a great opportunity at the same time, and I couldn’t say no. If I had given up after my first or second attempt, I’d never have been in that position. Because I had a little bit of talent, was accepting of feedback, and didn’t overwhelm Mark with my approach, it allowed me to stay on the radar of one of the industry’s best PD’s.
Many times in this industry, being hired for a position comes down to relationships, fit, financials and subjective opinions. If you don’t get the call today, don’t be discouraged. It’s amazing how a perceived setback on your end can actually be a blessing in disguise and an opening into something even more amazing. Sometimes a great NFL or MLB player has to wait a few turns to get a call to the Hall of Fame and the same type of things happen in radio. If you have talent and want it bad enough, people will eventually find you. You’ll just never know who, when or why they’re watching so always present yourself well, don’t be overbearing and let your body of work do the talking.
Here’s the July sports radio report from Nielsen Media. Again, it was a slow month for the four sports stations (one of which, KGOW, did not show up in the ratings). KILT (610 AM) remained the weeklong leader over KBME (790 AM) and KFNC (97.5 FM), but only KFNC, thanks perhaps to World Cup broadcasts, was up from June.
KILT’s weeklong share (6 a.m.-midnight) among men 25-54 dropped to 2.6 percent, down six-tenths from June. KBME fell four-tenths of a point to 1.7. KFNC improved by one-tenth to 1.3, and KGOW (1560 AM) did not register.
Both frontrunners continued to slump in morning drive. KBME retook the lead with a 3.0 share, a tenth of a point ahead of KILT. In July, the stations were at 4.5 and 4.1, respectively. KFNC improved by five-tenths of a point.
After a nice midday (10 a.m.-3 p.m.) number in June at 4.6, KILT slumped to 3.3 KBME fell to 2.3 from 3.4 in June. KFNC improved by a half-point to a 1.5 share.
KILT kept its lead in afternoon drive (3-7 p.m.) but dropped to a 3.5 share from 4.2 a month earlier. KFNC fell four-tenths to 1.5, and KBME was down four-tenths to 1.2.
From 7 p.m. to midnight, KILT improved three-tenths to 2.1, KBME dropped six-tenths to 1.2 and KFNC dropped three-tenths to 1.0.
Turning to show-by-show comparisons, KBME’s Greg Koch-N.D. Kalu (9-11 a.m.) program topped the list with a 4.5 share. Mike Meltser-Seth Payne (10 a.m.-2 p.m.) on KILT were second at 3.4, a tenth of a point ahead of KILT’s Rich Lord-Sean Pendergast-Ted Johnson show (2-7 p.m.).
KILT’s Nick Wright-John Lopez (6-10 a.m.) show was fourth with a 2.9 share in its time slot, followed by KILT’s Paul Gallant-Brien Straw (7-11 p.m.) and occasional Texans programming at 1.9.
Rounding out the field were three KBME shows: Adam Clanton-Lance Zierlein (6-9 a.m.) at 2.4, Charlie Pallilo (2-6 p.m.) at 1.8 and Matt Thomas (11 a.m.-2 p.m.) at 1.7. KFNC’s Fred Faour-A.J. Hoffman (4-7 p.m.) and Jerome Solomon-Dave Tepper (noon-2 p.m.) were at 1.6.
For more on this story visit the Houston Chronicle where it was originally published
For the better part of the last decade, “Bulldog” Bob Fescoe has been entertaining Kansas City sports radio listeners on a daily basis. Having worked for both of the market’s top sports radio stations (610 Sports & 810 WHB), Bob has gained valuable insight into what the Kansas City sports fan cares about and his passion, hard work and commitment to the local community have played a strong role in helping him achieve success with his current show “Fescoe In The Morning“.
On a national level, Talkers Magazine has recognized his program for the past two years as one of the nation’s Top 100 most important sports talk shows. For 2012 and 2013 he was ranked 69th overall and that recognition by fellow sports media professionals further demonstrates how respected his brand has become in the Kansas City market.
I first crossed paths with Bob 8 years ago while programming SportsTalk 950 (now 97.5 The Fanatic) in Philadelphia. I was looking for a morning show at the time and I brought Bob in for an audition opposite former NY Jets QB Ray Lucas. I remember coming away impressed by what he did on the air that day especially considering he and Ray hadn’t met until the day of the show. Unfortunately, the call for the opening wouldn’t come his way as I’d end up leaving Philadelphia for St. Louis and putting the morning show search into the hands of the next Program Director Gregg Henson.
While the situation in Philadelphia didn’t materialize, Bob had gained my respect and attention and once I settled in at my new job in St. Louis and had an opening become available, I made him an offer to come join me at 590 The Fan. Bob accepted and was eager to take on the challenge of doing mornings opposite Tim McKernan but unfortunately all of us were thrust into an impossible situation due to poor company finances and as a result, the whole show would be dismantled in less than a year and leave tension high and everyone involved with the show confused and frustrated.
Despite going through some difficult situations in St. Louis, Bob and I clicked personally and professionally. We even co-hosted a weekly NFL show together which I’m pretty sure he’s since tried to forget about. While working for KFNS, he gained the opportunity of covering the Rams on a regular basis plus he had the chance to host a weekly show with former wide receiver Isaac Bruce.
What stood out to me about Bob during the time I worked with him was how hungry he was for coaching and how receptive he was to feedback. Not every talent in this business is always looking to get better but that wasn’t the case with Bob. That willingness to constantly search for ways to improve is an important trait that I believe all on-air personalities should have.
When you turn on Bob’s show, one thing that’s impossible to ignore is how fired up he can get. He delivers his opinions with authority and sometimes gets so fired up that you’re worried he may just pop a blood vessel or two. While the force in which he presents his points may tick off local players or teams at times, it’s that genuine raw emotion on the air that has earned him the respect and appreciation of his audience throughout the years. Case in point, take a listen to one of Bob’s most memorable rants on the Kansas City Chiefs.
I reached out to Bob recently to get a sense of how he feels he’s grown as a personality throughout the years as well as what he considers some of the most important aspects of creating good radio. I hope you enjoy reading the conversation as much as I enjoyed conducting it.
Q: When did you first start to think about getting into sports radio? What made you want to do it?
A: I first thought about getting into sports broadcasting when I was 8. I was watching John Madden every Sunday and thought that seems like a cool job. It was at 8 when I realized I did not have the skills to play sports so why not talk about them. I never considered “Sports Talk” until about 2001. A job came open in KC as a producer and it eventually morphed into hosting nights. Ever since then I have been talking sports. Play by Play was what I thought I wanted to do in life.
Q: Who have been some of the people who you’ve learned from and would list as influences on your career? How have they helped you in developing as a talent?
A: First and foremost Ryan Maguire. My first PD at KCSP in KC. He was very instrumental in helping me develop further as a host. Constant feedback and involvement helped early on. I still do a lot of the things he talked about today. Jason Barrett was influential as well. It was from him I learned the “Art of Teasing” which is so vital and necessary in the business today. Barrett was also the first PD who actually gave me feedback which was so important in the early days of my career.
Q: Your first big career opportunity came with WHB in Kansas City. How would you summarize that experience?
A: It was fun. The guys at WHB gave me my first real chance when they allowed me to do morning. I am grateful for that chance because it allowed me to blossom and spring board on to the host I am today.
Q: During your first stint in Kansas City, you made national headlines as a result of having your Royals press pass revoked after you pissed off Royals Owner David Glass. How did that experience effect you and how you communicate with teams today?
A: I think the experience with the Royals was great. It made me realize “It’s not what you say but how you say it“. My mom used to say that to me all the time growing up but it took a real world incident to hammer it home. Its also made me realize that this business is all about relationships and without them it makes your job very difficult
Q: After working for WHB, you moved on to KFNS in St. Louis. What did you gain from that experience?
A: It made me realize that it’s not easy moving to a market like St Louis that is very provincial. It was tough. I bounced around from day part to day part and job to job. It made me become a much better broadcaster and stronger person. Without St. Louis I’m not sure I’d be in the position I am in today. I learned so much about putting together a show, how to tease, how to make radio compelling. I never learned any of that before.
Q: After leaving St. Louis, you elected to return to Kansas City and join 610 Sports. What made you decide to return to KC?
A: It was a great opportunity to return to one of the best sports cities in America. If you haven’t been to KC you are missing out on the most passionate fans in America. We have not had the most success on the field but fans live and die with their teams here and the college scene is awesome as well. 3 passionate fan bases with MU, KU and K-State make it a great place to talk sports.
Q: When it comes to the fundamentals of doing sports radio, what do you believe are your biggest strengths and biggest weaknesses?
A: I think my biggest strength is that I know what the fans are talking about. I feel like I have a good feel for the KC fan. I also think that having a fast pace, tons of energy and fun are big strengths. You can’t take yourself too seriously. My biggest weakness would have to be “the bits” that come with a radio show. That could use some work.
Q: When you listen to sports radio shows locally or nationally, what are some things that frustrate you as a listener and cause you to tune out?
A: Droning on and on with a topic. The one thing that our PD John Hanson has stressed is pacing. He is right. Make your point and move on. I also hate hosts who keep a guest for too long. 5-7 minutes is enough. 20 minute interviews do nothing for me. I usually turn on a show to hear the host, not a conversation with a writer. I also can’t stand when hosts don’t re-set. Let us know who you are talking to every few minutes.
Q: What’s your philosophy on guests and what do you hope to accomplish when conducting an interview?
A: I like guests, if they are a big name. I think the days of bringing on beat writer guys to preview a game are done. I also think that short chats are the best. Get the nuts and bolts out of them and move on. Again that is something that John Hanson has stressed and I agree with. I find myself getting mad when I hear guests on too long now.
Q: Being known as someone who wears his emotions on his sleeve during his show, how do you balance being explosive vs. going too far and crossing the line?
A: I think you have to be calculated. You can’t explode a lot or it becomes white noise. But when a fan base is upset and you can sense that, you have to give them what they want. Numerous times I have found myself taking a deep breath because you don’t want to go too far. However at times it’s warranted. I think there have been 2 times where it was really warranted and I let em have it!
Q: When it comes to improving as a personality, what are some things you do to measure your progress?
A: We meet weekly. We talk about the good and the bad of the show. We try to implement the new stuff each week.
Q: How important are the ratings to you and what are some things you do to try and maximize your audience?
A: Obviously ratings are important but radio is so much more than just ratings. You have to spend a lot of time on social media these days talking with listeners and interacting. I think it has helped me a ton and I am sure it has with other hosts as well. As we all do, I wish there was a more efficient way of measuring listeners. I think podcast downloads and streaming numbers are vital as well since that is the way the young generation consumes everything. I was talking to a class at the University of Kansas a few years ago and a student said they don’t listen to the show. I said how do you know me then? He said podcasts. A lot of people listen to the show later in the day. Most people use their phones to stream. All those avenues are coming on fast and we need to embrace them.
Q: As you look at the sports radio industry, what do you believe has been the biggest change over the past 10-20 years?
A: The internet. Listening habits have changed. In a way, it is kind of on demand radio. People can consume your product 24/7. Interaction with listeners has changed so much with social media. IF you are a host and not on twitter you should just quit.
Q: In assessing your own work, what would you list as the biggest accomplishments of your career and what do you still hope to achieve in the future?
A: I think my biggest accomplishment was taking over my competition. We have worked hard to put a good product out. When we became the top sports morning show that was huge. But its not enough. We have to find a way to maintain that consistently.
Q: To those who are thinking about entering the sports radio business today, what one piece of advice would you like to pass along to them?
A: Be ready to work hard. Then work harder. IF you are not willing to put in the time then don’t bother.
Bob Fescoe can be heard weekday mornings from 6A-10A on 610 Sports in Kansas City. To check out the show’s web page click here. You can also follow Bob on Twitter by clicking here.
Detroit sports talk ‘radio wars’ are heating up with rival stations trying to one-up each other.
Fox 2’s own Ryan Ermanni hosts a shot on Detroit Sports 105.1 and took part in a latest stunt that has taken the rivalry to new heights at Lions training camp in Allen Park.
With 97.1 The Ticket owning the radio broadcast rights to the Detroit Lions and not wanting competitor 105.1 at camp, the radio station took to the air.
The radio station’s bosses got a scissor lift and stationed it at an adjacent property allowing the “Ryan and Rico” show to broadcast high above the action.
The duo got to see everything from a vantage point of 50 feet up.
When it was over, Ermanni’s co-host Rico Beard was happy to be back on solid ground.
“You felt every gust of wind,” Beard said. “It was very outside the box. We could not broadcast from Lions training camp, so we did the next best thing.”
Credit to Fox Detroit who originally published this story
During my time in St. Louis, I had the privilege of hiring Rick Venturi as a talk show host. Aside from being a very talented communicator, Rick had spent his entire adult life coaching college and professional football. More than 35 years were spent designing schemes, motivating players and gaining knowledge with the ultimate goal being to use it all to help the teams he worked for win a championship.
While Rick didn’t win a Super Bowl or National Championship during his career, he had a wealth of knowledge to share and after working with great leaders such as Bill Belichick, Mike Ditka, Jim Mora, Jon Gruden and Jim Haslett, I was curious to find out what made each of them and their teams unique and successful.
What I remember most was a discussion we had about the importance in every team having an identity and philosophy that was understood and shared by every member inside the organization. During our chat, Rick mentioned how he could look at a team in the NFL and know if they were a sound organization with a strong game plan or if they were a collection of parts just hoping to stumble into the right place. In most cases, he felt it was reflective of the Head Coach and GM’s attention to detail and overall vision for the organization.
I recall asking specifically about Bill Belichick because Rick had worked under him in Cleveland from 1994-1995 and following a number of Super Bowl titles in New England, I felt Bill knew a thing or two about winning and getting the most out of his players. Bill not only had a strong plan but he also surrounded himself with outstanding leaders who understood his vision and were committed to helping him realize it.
If you look back at the group that Belichick assembled in Cleveland it’s one of the best groups of all time. Nick Saban, Eric Mangini, Al Groh, Jim Schwartz and Kirk Ferentz were all coaches under Belichick and every single one of them went on to be a Head Coach. Inside the organization, the team employed Scott Pioli, Thomas Dimitroff, Ozzie Newsome, Michael Lombardi and Mike Tannenbaum. Each of them went on to become a General Manager.
While the Browns didn’t deliver on the field the way they should have given that amazing array of expertise, if you look at the Patriots of the past 14 years they’ve been one of the NFL’s most consistent and elite franchises. Once again Belichick surrounded himself with great people. Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weis, Bill O’Brien and Josh McDaniels all have worked under him and each has gone on to become a Head Coach too.
What jumped out to me when I spoke to Rick was how quickly he could tell you what a Bill Belichick football team looked like. He took me through the way Bill looked at various positions on a football team and what he expected out of those positions from a performance standpoint but even more important, he could tell you every detail of what the position should look like from the player’s height, weight and speed. If a player didn’t fit the description of what they looked for, more times than not they’d take a pass.
I asked Rick to provide a few examples and he was able to do so without missing a beat. He mentioned how Bill would look for physical running backs who could take a toll but wouldn’t necessarily be the fastest guy on the field. He liked wide receivers with a chip on their shoulders who weren’t afraid of contact. He liked taller corners who could play man to man and punish a wideout for 60 minutes even if they weren’t the fastest at their positions and he preferred heavier defensive tackles who could clog the middle and stop the run, even if it meant less ability to sack the QB.
When I took a look at Belichick’s teams I was blown away by the similarities. From Andre Rison in Cleveland to Randy Moss and Wes Welker in New England. At RB he went from Leroy Hoard, Tommy Vardell and Kevin Mack in Cleveland to Kevin Faulk, Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon and Laurence Maroney in New England. All very much similar type of players from a height, weight and style standpoint. If you log on to Pro Football Reference and look at some of those Browns and Patriots rosters you’ll be really surprised at how many similarities exist for players at each position.
Now when you ask Rick about his time with the St. Louis Rams, it’s not something he enjoys spending much time talking about. While he liked and respected Scott Linehan and was grateful for the opportunity to coach with the Rams, Rick knew the team was in trouble the first day he walked into the locker room.
He’d recall how each position had inconsistencies when it came to player attributes and styles. The vision on draft day would be cloudy which caused confusion on what the team was trying to become and when it carried over to the field, the organization lacked an identity and as a result finished with an 11-25 record under Linehan.
That isn’t to suggest that Scott Linehan can’t coach because he did a nice job for the Detroit Lions as their offensive coordinator and now he’s the passing game coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys but it illustrates the importance in knowing what you want your team to look like, feel like and ultimately play like in professional sports.
When you think of how that applies to sports talk radio, the comparisons are endless. Every detail inside an organization is critical to having success and it’s very true that much of the personality of the leader is reflected in the mindset and overall attitude of the team.
When I started programming radio stations I didn’t think about this at all. I was just trying to focus on helping guys out with doing a good show while also trying to convince myself that I was ready for the opportunity I had been handed. I didn’t know what I wanted out of each position on my radio stations, I just knew I wanted to win.
While that goal was one that everyone shared, having a plan for how to do it was absent. I certainly didn’t have enough of the right type of people around me to reflect my vision, but that wasn’t their fault, it was mine. I didn’t create the identity and brand vision that was needed for everyone to have success.
Since that time, I’ve grown a lot as a leader. It started at 101 ESPN in St. Louis and has continued for me in San Francisco with 95.7 The Game. The best thing to happen to me was going through a bad situation at 590 The Fan in St. Louis. Because the end result was failure and a 6-month stay on the beach, I used my free time to analyze every aspect of my game. I thought about what I wanted to accomplish if I got another chance, and who would be part of my team to carry out my vision if I got the call.
What I ultimately came up with was, any Jason Barrett programmed radio station was going to carry with it the identity of the 3 L’s. While there are other things that are important to a show or radio station’s success, these are the core principles that I believe in and seek out of my personalities. If I don’t feel an individual possesses these traits, then it’s difficult for me to bring myself to adding them to my team.
Learn: On the radio station’s that I have programmed, I have hired on-air personalities who possess the ability to help our audiences learn something new about the subjects were discussing. Any talk show host can throw out a basic statement and get an audience to react if they do it with passion. I want my hosts to dig deeper and give me some piece of insight I can’t get anywhere else. I should always feel as a listener that the host on the radio station is smart, prepared and informed and gives me things to think about that I can use with my friends to make myself look good. A few examples of hosts who’ve worked with me and fit this bill would be Bernie Miklasz, Greg Papa, Ric Bucher, Chris Dimino and Randy Karraker. There are plenty of others too.
Laugh: Let’s face it, the audience looks to us to take them away from the stress of their day. We are in business to entertain people. If you can’t laugh at yourself or with the audience, then what’s the point? Sports is supposed to be fun. So is doing a sports radio show. We’re not digging ditches or searching for the cure for cancer. Those are tough jobs. This is a labor of love, a passion play if you will. If you don’t have the ability to laugh, make people laugh, be vulnerable, and make an audience feel like they’re entering a sports bar to have a beer and shoot the shit with you, then you’re missing the point. Laughter brings people together and our job is to form a bond with our audience. When I think of hosts who deliver the laugh trait consistently I immediately think of John Lund, Zack McCrite, Whitey Gleason, Tim McKernan and Damon Bruce. Once again, I’m leaving some others out.
Likeability: This is the toughest of the 3 because the audience ultimately decides whether or not you’re likable but there are some factors that I look at that play into it. For example, are you willing to put your heart and soul into your content and let your audience into your world? If so, that matters to people. Can you acknowledge you’re wrong when you miss on an opinion or statement? It’s OK to be wrong in this business. You can strive to be right but need to be smart and own up to it when you’re not. People appreciate it because it tells them you’re human and you make mistakes just like them. Last but not least, are you approachable when you’re in front of people or are you the person who can’t wait to break away from the crowd? We’re in the people business. If you don’t like being around people, then that’s going to make it really hard to build lasting relationships. When I think of some hosts I’ve worked with who have the Likability characteristic, D’Marco Farr, Chris Duncan, Rob Ellis, Guy Haberman and Frank Cusumano all come to mind. Yes I know, I’m leaving a few others out too.
While I may seek personalities for my brands who possess the 3 L’s, it doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to be successful if you have them. You could have a slow pace show that bores the audience. You could conduct 30 minute interviews each hour that fatigue the audience. You could talk fast and loud and cause the listener to only listen in small doses. Or, you could use references to help your positions that the audience simply can’t relate to.
In each of those cases, I believe coaching can help make a difference. Having the ability though to make an audience laugh and learn and come across as someone who’s likable is something you either have or don’t. It’s kind of like following the Belichick system. You can check all the boxes but if you’re not a good football player eventually you’ll be exposed.
The purpose of this exercise isn’t to instruct you to go back to work tomorrow and implement the 3 L’s, it’s to get you thinking on what makes you or your brand unique and what strategies you plan to use to help you further establish that philosophy.
Think about how it compares to sports since that’s what our format focuses on 24/7. Bill Walsh teams were known for playing the west coast offense and the players who were picked to play for his teams either fit that system or they played elsewhere in the NFL.
This didn’t mean that other players like Dan Marino, Lawrence Taylor or Marcus Allen couldn’t adapt and fit in, it just meant that the people who were already in place fit the system so well and helped the team win so much that there was no need to worry about changing anything. The same applies to the radio business.
There are always talented people out there who could help us perform. The question you must ask though is, do they fit the organization and my philosophy or not? If they don’t then it doesn’t matter how good they are because the end result will be your own dissatisfaction. That’s not just for a PD either. It can be a Host’s view of a Producer. A Producer’s view of a Board Operator or any other part of your organization.
Yes we all want to win but we also want to win with people who we enjoy working with and who we believe reflect the values and mission statement of our brands. Having an understanding of who you want to be and how you’re going to become that type of team is essential to determining whether or not you’re built to succeed or fail. Knowing or not knowing could be the difference of whether you become Bill Belichick or Scott Linehan.
It was November 2009 when I first crossed paths with this week’s featured personality Bob Stelton. Bob had spent 12 years in sports radio at that point with stints at Sporting News Radio and KJR in Seattle and I was looking for a new host to join me in St. Louis at 101 ESPN.
Initially I thought there was no way he was going to leave the 2nd largest market (Los Angeles) to move to the 20th largest market (St. Louis) but Sporting News Radio had gone through some layoffs which left Bob looking for his next opportunity and after we made arrangements to have him come to town for a trial run with Bryan Burwell, we both could tell that there was a good connection and a situation worth exploring.
I remember telling Bob when I hired him “St. Louis is a tough market to break into as an outsider so I want to place you with Bryan which will help you get over“. Fast forward 9 months later and the show had made some progress but nowhere near where the others on the station had gone.
I then had to make a tough call and part ways with Bryan, a guy who I liked and respected a lot. I called Bob and told him I wanted to meet for dinner and talk about the show and I broke the news that evening that I was going to make a change and put him on solo.
Bob looked at me with his “I mean business” stare and said “let me get this straight, you said this is a tough market to break into and now you feel that our best way to grow the ratings on the show are to put me on solo and takeaway my partner“? I responded back with a confident “yes” even though I knew that was a damn good question and he had every right to question the game plan. To get an idea of Bob and Bryan as a team, check out this video.
As luck would have it, we made the change and within the next few months the show took off and started delivering inside the Top 5 like the rest of the radio station. Much of that success was due to how hard Bob worked to shape his identity with the audience and build relationships in the market. He was also open minded, candid and honest with me and his producer John Semar about his views on the show and that team collaboration and desire to do whatever it takes to win was a big reason why he did so well.
It was not only a big turning point for the radio station but it was a big achievement for Bob as well and the momentum from that success would ultimately put him in a position to land a weekday spot in his hometown of Seattle working 12pm to 3pm with Dave Grosby for 710 ESPN.
The rollout video that 710 ESPN put together for the start of the show was excellent. Make sure to check it out.
When you listen to Bob host a show, one of the first things you’ll notice is the way he presents himself to his audience. He has a deep voice and showcases a youthful approach with some of his phrasing and he’ll come across as a guy who’s serious, informed and passionate yet loves to have fun as well. Sometimes it’ll even happen at the expense of an update anchor which I’m sure Cliff Saunders remembers all too well (sorry Tasty Cakes).
Much of that presentation I believe stems from Bob’s background. He was the lead singer of a rock band on the Seattle music scene in the 1990’s so he got comfortable at a young age at entertaining audiences on stage. I used to love breaking his chops that he was the only musician in Seattle during the 90’s explosion to not land a record deal. I’m not sure he enjoyed that line as much as I did though! Here he is rocking out back in the day.
In addition to being an avid lover of music, Bob practices martial arts and is a diehard UFC fan. He’s also a Mariners and Seahawks fan and one of the few guys I know who likes Alex Rodriguez. I’m pretty sure that Bob is also the only guy on this planet to attend a Train concert and nearly get into a fight. Who knew that a song like “Drops of Jupiter” could cause such a reaction?
Having managed him, one of the things I appreciated and respected was how he put his heart and soul into his show each day. I can tell you that the same effort is given off of the microphone and he was always looking for feedback for ways to improve. Breaking into a new market and being successful can be very difficult but when you have the right mindset and a strong work ethic it’s definitely possible and Bob is proof of that.
I exchanged a few texts and emails with him to pick his brain on his background in the radio business and some of his professional viewpoints on critical elements of doing sports talk radio and I’m happy to share the details of our conversation with you.
Q: What was it that intrigued you enough to want to explore a career in sports talk radio?
A: I grew up playing sports. Although I was a musician, most of my idols were sports figures so I listened to a lot of sports talk and frankly, I felt I knew as much and could do it at least as well as those I was listening to.
Q: Who was the first person to hire you and what was the best/worst part of the job?
A: Tom Lee the PD for KJR in Seattle hired me to run the board for The Tacoma Rainiers games. The best part of the job was actually being paid to be in a place where everything was about sports. Sports were now paying my bills…sort of. Worst part…I was making $6 an hr and AAA baseball on the radio wasn’t the most electric thing in the world.
Q: Reflecting through the years, who are some of the broadcasters/personalities who you’ve enjoyed listening to and would list as an influence?
A: Mitch Levy here in Seattle was a tremendous influence. One of the best interviewers in radio. Howard Stern for his interviewing skills and creativity. He’s not for everybody but I have absolute respect for his fearlessness…he’s brilliant! PBP guys, VinScully is the greatest ever! Jim Lampley is fantastic as well.
Q: If there’s one thing that’s surprised you about the sports radio business that you had no idea about prior to getting into it, what would it be?
A: It seems silly but I always thought that I couldn’t possibly EVER get tired of going to games or speaking with athletes. After a few years of covering struggling teams/players, you realize how draining it can be to talk about those things on a daily basis. Trying to find new angles on a losing team or struggling players can feel like a death march if it’s something that lasts a while. And going into those locker rooms to talk to those players about “what is wrong with this team“, is no picnic.
Q: Where do you believe you’ve grown the most as a talk show host?
A: With more experience I’ve just become more comfortable with who I am and my strengths and weaknesses. When you first start, you tend to mimic, on some level, those who influence you. After a while you find your own voice and it becomes obvious what works for you.
Q: What is one thing that you don’t feel you do well as a broadcaster that you need to improve on?
A: I can be a little rigid in my opinions. At times I have a hard time seeing the logic to an opposite opinion. When you put a bunch of time and effort into creating your position on something, it’s not always easy to embrace an opposite point of view. Although, great debates are certainly born out of that, at times.
Q: Having done local and national talk radio, how do you prepare differently for both? What do you enjoy most/least about both?
A: Local radio, you feel like you have an attachment to the team your covering and their fan bases. You have an identity and a connection with them both. The scope of what you talk about, such as the teams and topics, are much more narrow in local radio. Mariner fans don’t want to hear me talking about the Mets or Dodgers. But national radio gives you a much bigger plate of material to work with. The headlines are the headlines no matter which city is involved in the story. So, whatever story you’re talking about that day, there is an interested audience there for you. As a national host, you have material all year around but you really miss being attached to a specific fan base and the passion that goes with speaking to one specific market about THEIR teams.
Q: How important is utilizing audio in your show each day? What are some ways you incorporate it into your daily presentation?
A: If you don’t use it, what’s the reason behind it? Audio is a great launching point for me. It sets up a conversation and listener reaction. It sets up a tease to the next segment (Coming up next, you won’t believe what Richard Sherman had to say about the 49ers, you’ll hear it next!) It supports or counters your opinions. Creating more conversation with your co-host and audience.
Q: When it comes to the Producer/Host relationship, what is it that you want & need from your producer in order to be the best you can be?
A: I need a producer that cares about the show as much as I do. I want them to take pride in the success of the show. I want them to take ownership of it. I want them to be thinking about how to improve and grow the show as much as I do. I love a producer who will challenge my opinions or ideas. It forces you to really dig deeper into the subjects and creatively it’s great to have two minds going on an idea and bouncing different scenarios off of each other. It’s a lot like writing a song, you piece together everybody’s contributions and see what you have. Sometimes it’s great! Sometimes it stinks! But, that process is crucial to keeping a show fresh.
Q: What is the most difficult part about being a personality and dealing with audience feedback that isn’t always positive?
A: Sometimes if the negative feedback gets personal, it can be a little challenging. Or if it’s clear that somebody is responding to what they THINK you said and, not what you actually said. Outside of that, I love listeners who want to challenge my opinion. Again, it’s just another form of material to work with.
Q: How often do you meet with your Program Director, Producer or other staff members to critique the show and your performance?
A: I meet with my PD every couple of weeks. I love constructive criticism! As soon as I feel like I know everything or, everything I do is perfect, I’m dead. That’s when you stop improving or trying to improve. I don’t always agree with every critique but more often than not, a fresh set of ears will hear things you don’t because you’re too close to it. It can be very hard to be objective about your own show.
Q: When you reflect on some of the things you’ve accomplished in your career so far, what tops the list?
A: To be employed in this business as long as I have feels like an accomplishment. Anybody in the business knows how tough it is to have any level of sustained security. Having success on a national level for 7 years was big for me. Then succeeding in a local market that I had never even been to much less really followed, is something that I’m very proud of.
Q: What would you say was the most difficult moment of your career?
A: I’ve been out of work one time since 1997. The network I was with for 7 years, downsized in a very big way. And, I was not renewed when my final contract was up. I was out of work for 8 of the longest months of my life. That had me a little unnerved. But, it also made me really appreciate the places I’ve been since.
Q: For someone out there reading this who’s thinking of entering the industry and striving to be an on-air talent, what advice can you pass along to help them on their journey?
A: LEARN EVERYTHING! Don’t ever think you’re above doing any job. Just because you want to be a host doesn’t mean that’s where you start. Run the board, cut sound, produce, go into the locker-rooms, etc… do it all so that once you do become a host, you have an appreciation and understanding of what it takes to make the whole thing tick!
You can hear Bob Stelton on the “Bob & Groz” show weekdays from 12p-3p PST on 710 ESPN in Seattle. For more information on the show you can click here to visit their show page. You can also follow Bob on Twitter @BobStelton.
It’s safe to say that there’s been a social media explosion over the past 10 years and chances are you’ve caught the bug. Each day we wake up and check our Facebook timelines and Twitter feeds before we even look at a website, listen to a radio station, watch a TV channel or god forbid open a newspaper (I actually know some people who still do it). This is a way of life for us and our listeners and given how many platforms launch and succeed each year, it doesn’t appear to be slowing down anytime soon.
If you scan the country today, you’ll find tons of sports radio personalities who are passionately engaged in these forums and take the responsibility of connecting very seriously. To list a few examples, Damon Bruce & John Middlekauff at 95.7 The Game-SF, Chad Doing at 750 The Game-Portland, Shan Shariff at 104.3 The Fan-Dallas and Chad Dukes & Grant Paulssen at 106.7 The Fan-Washington DC are just some of the on-air hosts who do a great job in this space.
I’ll also catch guys like John Kincade at 680 The Fan-Atlanta, Bob Fescoe at 610 Sports-KC and Freddie Coleman at ESPN Radio use their Twitter feeds to drive radio teases and content tune-ins on their shows and I think that’s very smart. It certainly makes you wonder what they’re talking about and creates an urgency to want to click the station’s app button on your phone and hear what’s going on.
While there’s no denying the importance social media plays in our daily lives, there is some debate in the sports talk radio universe of how heavily invested we should be in it. While that may seem crazy to some of you, there’s some good reasoning offered on the other side to make for a great discussion.
Case in point, Mike Francesa of WFAN in New York has talked openly for the past few years about his lack of interest in it. Mike admits that he doesn’t have a Twitter or Facebook account and has no plans to adjust. He also doesn’t think athletes should be using the forum. There are plenty of other established major market personalities who share similar views.
Now some of you will dismiss that and say “he’s behind the times” or “he doesn’t get it” and maybe there’s some validity to that point of view but there’s equal value to the point he raises about giving things away for free in too many places and not making your radio show a unique one of a kind destination.
Let’s face it, in the ratings world today it’s likely that a user with a PPM meter has a Facebook account. Maybe even a Twitter account. One could say that being active in both of these locations gives you a better chance to form a loyal bond with the individual which then makes them want to consume your show more.
The other side of that equation is that because the individual with a meter already knows what you think and has seen you interacting with everyone about it online, there’s no specific need now to tune into your radio show. It may seem far fetched but can you be so sure that isn’t accurate?
I myself have a Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn account and I believe there is great value in being accessible, connecting with people and staying involved in what the latest trends are but I do know that each medium has the ability to infect you like a virus and keep you so busy that you lose focus and decrease your own productivity.
Once you start letting the feedback consume you and ultimately influence you, you’re likely to hate it. That’s where social media can be really dangerous. I have watched hosts change segments based on a few tweets and I’ve seen them also spend hours going back and forth with 2-3 people who have no interest in having a good healthy discussion and are only interested in getting under their skin.
I can recall in 2006 moving to St. Louis to program 590 The Fan, KFNS and before Twitter/Facebook became the powerful outlets for feedback that they are today, message boards were the popular thing. I was new to town and unfamiliar with them so I figured I’d better get up to speed since every host, producer and employee seemed consumed by one of my former colleagues Bernie Miklasz’s “Bernie’s Press Box” in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
Well before I knew it I found myself reading the board daily, hearing my staff talk about stuff from it and letting it influence their opinions. At one point I started to even question my own beliefs because I was working for a place which had made some bad decisions and the reaction to what I was involved in was strong and I felt I needed to be aware.
I finally woke up one day and thought to myself “what the hell am I doing“? While I couldn’t fix every single issue with the company, I knew I had to detach myself from that outlet because it was now causing me to not do what I was good at which was trust my gut.
Today, I use Twitter and I do engage at times with listeners and I’ve even been known to conduct special chat sessions or use the social media world for surveys and soliciting focus group participants. What I make sure not to do these days though is let it impact the way I think about my brand, my staff and any decision I make.
For talent, that challenge is much harder. When you’re on a microphone communicating your position on every single sports topic, it’s going to lead to reaction. I’m a PD so I don’t have to endure the wrath of a half of a market when I speak my opinion about a sports topic but as a personality it comes with the territory. While I think it’s great to know that your words do connect with people, I think it’s equally wise to remember that a strong well informed opinion on a subject that has value to local people should create a response every single time! If you’re not creating a reaction then you’re likely just background noise.
The real key for on-air personalities is trying to strike a balance between being active and accessible yet not giving away the farm for free. People love to see you online during a game talking about it with them and you want to be able to provide some color on the game but saving the good stuff needs to factor into your thinking if you want to keep people interested and adjusting schedules to catch your show.
I do believe that the future of media personalities requires you to be much more than a radio host. In the future (and present) companies are going to expect you to be able to do a radio show, video commentary, write a blog, engage on social media, sell products, appear in the community and get out to games and build relationships with teams and fans.
Some will bitch and moan “that’s a lot of work” or “it wasn’t like that back in the day” and much like with everything else in life, change happens. If I recall correctly, in the movie “Moneyball” Brad Pitt said it best “Adapt or Die“.
Ask someone in local television today who shoots their own video and does their own stand ups. Sure some will say “this is ridiculous” and “it wasn’t like this before” but the media industry will move on just fine without those who adapt and the list of people interested in this line of work will only increase.
The next part I want to touch on is the value or lack thereof of following people back and blocking them. Unless someone starts firing personal attacks or provides little benefit to me to engage with them, I usually refrain from blocking people. Once again though, I’m a PD and not an on-air personality. Some of the things that get sent to personalities today would make you sick to your stomach. I’ve seen it occur in multiple markets where things that were sent in were so over the line and being done so frequently that there could be grounds for an arrest for harassment.
None the less, as a personality you’re in a no-win situation. Your opinions drive reactions and people will always have different viewpoints on everything you say and you’re in the public spotlight so the second you begin engaging in a confrontational way, it consumes your mind day/night and in most cases it just fuels the fire of people who’s sole purpose is to get under your skin. And if you react and take it too far? It could cost you your job.
If you follow Keith Olbermann on Twitter you’ll see that he doesn’t hide from the negativity and at times he even welcomes it. While I don’t see a lot of benefit for KO in getting into twitter battles with viewers, I will say that I find his jabs very entertaining. In some ways I’m glad he does it because too many personalities get verbally abused and are then expected to not stand up for themselves.
The only areas of concern for me are “what is really being gained from it” and “is it worth it if a line gets crossed and some corporate executive or key client gets offended“? Let’s face it, we’re in a very sensitive world today and people presume you guilty a lot faster than they consider you innocent. That said, Olbermann’s responses are hysterical.
.@NickInTheNati I’ve had jobs for 35 years, little one. You have a twitter account. And not much of that.
While KO has his approach, Jay Mohr has a very different approach. I read an interview with him (click here) where he discussed his views on social media and what blew me away was when he talked about his strategy on positive and negative reactions.
His exact quote was “The golden rule of Twitter is you cannot ever respond to somebody saying something negative to you. It took me a good three years to learn that, and, even still, I’ll start to type something and be a sentence or two in before I realize, What am I doing? Why am I answering this person? I’ve blocked about 3,000 people. I’ve made Twitter this ivory tower of Babel where people only say nice things about me.”
Here’s Jay, a popular public figure doing a daily show and expected to be accessible and yet he’s shutting down future communications with more than 3,000 people. Is that really wrong though? For his own peace of mind I bet he’s much happier opening his twitter account each day and not dealing with a ton of negativity. That probably puts him in a better frame of mind to be creative and do a great show and if he’s blocking people who don’t enjoy what he does anyway, are they really the fans who you want to focus your energy on anyway?
You can also make the case that by only promoting the positive, it creates the illusion that everyone likes Jay and his show and that can often create a domino effect where others feel like they need to start getting familiar with what’s happening on the show so they don’t feel left out. That’s one of the simple rules of marketing, say something enough times and people will start repeating it.
If you take it one step further, look at brands in general. Some feel strongly about following back listeners and some don’t. Some will post station only content benefits and some will respond to listeners messages. As a good brand example, I personally think the airline industry does a great job of responding to their customers. They’re very timely and often witty and I’m sure they see great value in it.
@joshreddick16 Our apologies for the delay, Josh. We’ll do what we can to keep our plane off the #disabledlist. What’s your flight number?
One big challenge we have today in our business with social media is trying to keep up with the thousands of responses per day while putting the responsibility on staff members who are also trying to balance doing 2-3 other jobs. Yes the interaction is very important and we don’t want to be dismissive of our audience but if the on-air product suffers from it, is it worth it? At that point you’re choosing between sipping two different poisons. Either way you’re in trouble.
I’ll close with this. If you’re not on Twitter today, you’re missing out on knowing about breaking news. Whether you love the service or not, if you’re not aware of what’s going on there you’re missing key information that matters to your audience. Every single reporter across the country is breaking news on Twitter before they do it on their ow company’s platforms and while that boggles my mind and one could question why, this is how the news cycle works in today’s environment and you need to be where the action is.
I do think one key takeaway from Mike Francesa’s views on social media is valid – are you giving away your best material for free and leaving nothing unique and special for your show? If your best stuff is left on Twitter or you’re recycling the same exact lines from the night before, you may want to alter your approach. For more on his views on the subject, watch his keynote address on the sports talk radio industry by clicking here.
That said I believe there’s great personal and promotional value for personalities and it’s a smarter long-term strategy for your career to be accessble and active in social locations where fans are. It’s certainly not for everybody but I see more upside being there than downside for not but that’s just my point of view.
I’ll leave you to consider this. Mike Francesa has no connection in any social space and yet he’s been (and still is) one of the highest rated performers in the #1 media market in the country. Maybe he’s missing out on what’s important to people today and he’s not thinking about what’s going to matter tomorrow but given his track record of success, he might not be as crazy as you might think. I’ll let you be the judge!
How do you feel about the importance of social media and how active personalities and sports radio professionals should be? Leave a comment below to continue the conversation!
What started as a curiosity on my part to learn more about the story, ended up becoming a reminder of how important it is to handle breaking news coverage the right way. Some of this may seem obvious but as simple as it may appear, not every individual or brand handles things right when it comes to dealing with major stories that require an ability to think and react quickly and wisely.
On the positive side, 1120AM KMOX in St. Louis was on top of the story every single minute. The station went wall to wall with on-air coverage and I saw numerous people involved with the radio station tweeting, posting photos and continuing dialogue with listeners. I could tell quickly that the brand was connected with its audience and invested in making sure they had the most up to the minute information on the story.
On the flip side, KSDK-4 in St. Louis dropped the ball big time. Rather than stick to reporting the news, the station became the news after they elected to sensationalize the story and show footage of the police officer’s home which had his address on the house. This caused an uproar from local viewers and led to the creation of a “Boycott KSDK” facebook page which as of last check had over 29,000 likes. Many of those people also planned to boycott outside the TV station to voice their unhappiness with the station’s lack of judgement.
Spinning it to the national side, Fox News almost always wins in the ratings because for the most part they do a good job. That top notch programming though wasn’t on display this weekend however. Instead I tuned in on 5 different occasions for coverage of the Ferguson story only to find the network showing taped programming or a quick news update. On one occasion they even presented a live show and focused content on Rick Perry’s issues in Texas rather than the Ferguson situation. That was very surprising and disappointing for a channel which is usually the first choice for news programming.
The one national network that owned the story was CNN. Anytime I put the channel on, they were focused on the story. While some of the coverage became tiresome due to repetition, they kept the focus on what mattered to most people and I felt after 3 days that if I wanted to know anything about the story from a national perspective that I could trust CNN for their commitment to it.
I also think it’s critical when these types of stories come up to be very smart and factual when reporting information. When I see a channel like KSDK make an error and show a police officer’s address on live television during a time when tensions are high, I can’t help but wonder which manager made the call and what repercussions they’ll have to deal with for making such a bad judgement. The last thing you want to do in a situation like this is become the story and KSDK became that for a day when they made one really bad decision.
Our competitor 1380AM chose to go on-air and report that Pujols was indeed on the list. At the same time, Fox 2-KTVU made the same call and decided to send a crew over to Albert’s restaurant and ask patrons how they felt about Pujols being on the list and whether or not they’d eat at his place of business again in the future.
An hour later the Mitchell Report came out and Albert Pujols’ name wasn’t on it. The staff seemed to be more relieved that we didn’t get beat to the story than happy that we were accurate but truth be told, it was a big risk. I had a 50/50 shot of being the hero or the goat and I chose to follow my gut and my beliefs which were “you’re innocent until proven guilty“. Maybe I’m old fashioned with situations like this but I’d rather be late and right than first and wrong.
It sounds basic but when breaking news happens I think you’ve got to be on top of it immediately and you’ve got to ask the right questions. As difficult as it may be, you’ve got to separate fact and speculation and do so quickly. So many people are in a rush to get content on the air that they hear one side of a story and run with it and then when the other side comes out later, they look foolish. It’s ok to report the one side that you know but how you paint the picture has a lot to do with how you’ll have to navigate the next part later on.
The 49ers and Raiders played a pre-season game at Candlestick Park in August 2011 and at that game a number of fights broke out in the stands and bathrooms. There was also a shooting in the parking lot. It was a scary situation and easily the number one story throughout the Bay Area.
Joe then joined us right after that conversation and the first question from my morning crew was about the violence at Candlestick Park. We then spent the first 6-7 minutes of the interview talking about the situation with Joe and he was engaged in the topic and went as far as to tell us that when he played for the 49ers, he too saw similar situations occur in the stadium and didn’t always feel safe there. His comments would go on to make national news that day and become a topic of conversation for the rest of the broadcast day.
I’ve seen people lose careers over making the wrong calls in these kind of situations and my approach is simple “dive into the story immediately, share the facts, allow for audience interaction and voice your opinion based on what you know“.
It’s no different then going to see your favorite band. If they play every song that never was released and ignore the “hits“, chances are you’ll leave the show disappointed or less than satisfied. Those who crank out the tunes that everyone knows, usually benefit from having the crowd sing and dance along and spend more money on other CD’s, merchandise and tickets to future shows.
