Thank you for checking out ‘The Industry According To’. This series runs each Tuesday, and features radio and record industry executives, managers, programmers, talent, artists, and professionals from all areas of the business world. To be considered as a future guest, email me at keithblackboxgroup@gmail.com.
The music industry is massive. Thousands of jobs, companies, brands, and artists, all chasing different goals. Today we get to look at the industry through the lens of Matt Pinfield, a legendary name in Rock & Roll, and a pro who has done it all. Matt has seen the industry from all sides, A&R, MTV, MTV-2, VH-1, Radio, TV, Film, author, interviewing icons, and even singing live with KISS.
The State of Artist Development
Keith: You were in A&R back when it was considered an art form. When you look at the industry today, scouting artists on TikTok, singles over albums, data-first decisions, etc., what’s the most important thing the industry has forgotten about in regards to developing artists?
Matt: I think the thing the industry has forgotten about developing artists is just developing artists. With data being everywhere and TikTok almost serving as the new club circuit, it’s understandable for labels, and even managers, to be less enthusiastic about the long grind and possible costs of artist development when technology and data can help skip steps. But longevity and an artist’s creativity and talent don’t just develop overnight. It’s built over time. That means development.
It’s great if an artist comes out of nowhere with a hit, but selling out an arena with a setlist full of beloved songs is a different animal. That takes development and time.
The other part are the expectations that are put on artists these days. From marketing themselves on social to relying so heavily on merch and touring just to survive. Artist development used to be like going to college for an artist. The labels and managers were the professors who took the wheel while the artist further learned, grew and made mistakes. Today, that “college for artists” doesn’t exist like it once did. Artists are now jumping into the fire and having to figure out a lot of the business on their own in addition to the pressures of creating great music.
Rock in 2026
Keith: You’ve lived through many cycles of rock being declared “dead,” yet here we are. Streaming is huge and festivals like Sonic Temple and Aftershock seem to get bigger each year. Where do you see rock being right now creatively, culturally, and commercially?
Matt: Rock is healthy right now. It’s finding new audiences all the time, from classic artists to new bands. I see it every week at live shows, both younger kids and adults at the same show. I’m not talking about dads bringing their kids to a Guns ‘N Roses show, I mean a wide range of ages are at most Rock shows.
And there’s great new music coming out all the time. The audience is hungry for it. Look no further than festivals like Sonic Temple and Louder Than Life. They’re setting attendance records. And it’s great to see bands grow in that space. The festivals are almost like yearbooks for some of the bands. We see them starting on the smaller stage, then they get to a middle stage, and finally end up on the bigger stage, literally growing and making career jumps thanks to being on the road and playing live.
There always has been and still is a large audience for Rock, but the genre is hugely fragmented with many different Sub genres. But it’s all Rock. If we took the sub-genres of Rock and added them together, we could make an argument it’s near the very top of being the most popular genre.
Turnstile is having a great moment right now. Rock also had two massive records go #1 this year — Ghost and Sleep Token. Those bands didn’t just put up a TikTok and become big. They’ve been developing their music and audience over time.
The MTV Craze vs. TikTok Mania
Keith: You helped shape an era when music discovery relied upon taste-makers, curators and storytellers. How do you compare that to the algorithm-discovery world we’re in now? What have we gained, and is there anything we’ve lost?
Matt: We’ve gained a lot, especially with music being on-demand and available everywhere. Fans are more able to do deep dives on artists without having to buy a full catalogue. They’re also being exposed to so many more artists, faster than ever. I remember going to record stores and finding the listening stations and hoping they’d have records I could skim through. Today I can skim an artist’s entire library while eating dinner at home.
But we have lost some key things. The earlier radio years and then the MTV craze were trend setters. They were music gathering points for everyone. Everyone listened and watched. When I was at MTV, I was in music meetings and on the voting committee. We knew if a song was added to “Headbanger’s Ball” or debuted on “TRL” or “MTV Raps,” everyone would be talking about it the next day. And the labels knew this type of exposure, to such a large audience all at once, could make or break a band. Viewers would immediately call friends and ask, “Did you just see that video?” It was an incredible time. You have no idea what labels would do to try and get their artists on MTV.
Today, algorithms don’t necessarily account for what your friends and neighbors are listening to or liking. It’s not the common ground like radio and MTV used to be. The digital stuff is highly specialized for each person. And there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s fantastic, but it also means people are fed a steady diet of what the machines know you like and they aren’t stretching a person’s musical boundaries as much as MTV and radio used to. “We know you like this, you’ll probably like this.” Instead of, “we know you like that, but here’s something different, check it out and see what you think.”
What MTV used to do, and radio can still do, is tell the story of an artist. Why is it being played? What’s the band about? TikTok and Spotify don’t really do that.
The Modern Artist Mindset
Keith: You’ve been close to legendary artists at every stage of their career, from being considered for MTV airplay to headlining stadiums. What mindset separates artists who have career longevity and others who burn out fast and disappear?
Matt: The simple answer for career longevity is that an artist must have talent and songs, of course, but what’s more important is having the passion and will…the drive. Music has to be their reason for being. It’s like a fire inside them they can’t put out. There’s no plan B. And it’s not like that for many artists. They may enjoy doing it, and the perks that come with it, but it’s not the core driver inside them.
Deftones come to mind. They’ve reemerged and are bigger than ever, recently doing an arena tour with System of a Down. It’s not just about their older music, their new stuff is on fire. And My Chemical Romance is back, selling out stadiums, and they’ve found a new generation of fans. Yes, both bands were initially big in their early years, but then they quieted down for many years. Both are back with a vengeance, hotter than ever.
I believe career longevity is there for talented musicians that have the drive to never stop. It doesn’t mean every artist will be headlining Dodgers stadium, like MCR, but those artists that truly have music in their soul will find a way for their talent and their music to support, even if it’s being a music teacher, as a studio musician, or a weekend warrior playing smaller clubs.
Love For Radio
Keith: You’ve worked in or around radio your whole career. What do you believe radio still does better than anyone gives it credit for? Where does it need to evolve fastest to stay relevant with the next generation of music fans?
Matt: I’ve always loved radio and it’s still a main passion for me. Radio is STILL very important for music discovery and connection with listeners. We never know what’s going to connect with someone. I can be out introducing a band at a show or interviewing an artist for a documentary, and someone is bound to come up to me and ask about something they heard me play on the radio or wondering if I’ll repeat a story I told.
The audience trusts radio. If a DJ recommends a band and says ,“Go see this band Saturday night,” or “ if you’re in the market for a good used car,” listeners take those recommendations seriously. For me, it’s not really a big need for radio to evolve, but to just do more curating, become more of a discovery vehicle for both new and older music, and never lose the connection with listeners.
The Next Big Pivot
Keith: Every few years, the industry gets blindsided by something new: Napster, iPods, iTunes, streaming, TikTok. What’s the next disruption you think most aren’t ready for?
Matt: You called them big pivots from the past, but they’re still around. We may not have iPods, but we have iPhones, which are basically the same thing. If Spotify or TikTok go away, they’ll just be replaced by something with a new name that does the same thing, maybe with a few new twists.
But as you know, it’s all about technology. That will lead to more and more pivots. It’s just evolution. AI isn’t going away. Everyone needs to just accept the fact that AI-created music is here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future. And that doesn’t have to be a bad thing. I heard Pantera’s “Walk” redone as a Soul record by AI. It was INCREDIBLE. I’d be interested to hear my favorite Queen’s songs done with a Jazz vibe. Why not? Just because it’s coming from a machine, doesn’t mean it’s not music.
Think about it, if we did away with all the machine-based effects or tech alterations to bass lines or vocals, we wouldn’t even have new music anymore. If it’s AI or just a human with a guitar and mic, as long as it makes you feel something, that’s not a bad thing. But we will always have humans creating music.
The Record Labels
Keith: You’ve had a front row seat to label strategy going back to the 90s, both the hits and misses. We know today’s deals are structured differently. Some artists don’t even have a label behind them and they’re doing just fine. Do artists need labels these days? If so, what should the modern relationship between artists and labels look like?
Matt: It depends on what type of artist or band it is and what the expectations are. When you look at big headliners these days, whether it’s a major, independent on their own imprint, those artists have a large team of people (or label) behind them, and they couldn’t do it otherwise.
Then there are the scaled-down artists and productions that really don’t need all the infrastructure and backing that comes with most labels and record deals. Singing with a major label can come with big support and be incredibly beneficial, but it also comes with costs. Someone has to pay all those employees, from the mail room guys up to the penthouse, those workers need to get paid. Where does that money comes from? It comes from the artists’ music. So, it’s a tradeoff that needs to be well-thought-out by both parties. If it isn’t, it’ll be very hard for either side to make money these days.
Because album sales are no longer the main source of revenue for artists, today’s record deals have to be different. I believe the right deal requires a commitment from both parties. The label can’t continue to retain all rights but still bail if the first single flops. Artists that want support need to realize that comes with costs they have to cover which can be worth it in the long run.
The Stuff Only Matt Knows
Keith: Every time someone sits down and talks music with you, they’ll learn something they didn’t already know. Or they’ll hear an interesting story. One of my favorites I’ve heard you tell is when you were at Eddie Van Halen’s 5150 studios. Share a little bit about that briefly.
Matt: That’s a classic story. I love Eddie and Van Halen so much. I was fortunate enough to be invited to Eddie’s studio, 5150 Studios at his house here in the hills. The band was there, preparing for an album launch, and at one point I had to use the restroom. They showed me where to go and I went in. And whenever I’m in a legendary place like that, I look all around. I don’t want to miss anything.
You’re never going to believe this, but underneath the toilet paper holder on the wall was a quarter-inch jack for instruments. In other words, anyone in the band could plug in and jam while they’re on the john, and it would be heard back in the studio’s control room. Unbelievable. So, I asked Eddie about it later that day. I said, “Eddie, I noticed the input in the bathroom under the toilet paper, and I can’t believe I’m asking YOU this, but have you ever sat there on the toilet recorded riffs?”
His answer was classic. “Of course I have. I do that all the time.” I often wonder if some of our favorite Van Halen riffs started out while Eddie was on the toilet.
Matt Version 9.0
Keith: Most know you’ve faced and overcome your share of human struggles, including a recent stroke. Doctors didn’t think you’d make it past the weekend. Now here you are, back in action at full tilt. What’s driving you today? What’s the work that means the most to you today?
Matt: You’ve put me through the ringer, Keith, but this is the easiest question to answer. I’m just happy to be alive. I probably shouldn’t still be here. That’s not lost on me. I am so grateful for every day I have above ground, and I mean it. I’m not taking anything for granted.
But other than that, it’s family, friends and music. Music is it for me. I’m not going to go sell cars, so I just want to keep working and supporting the music I love so much, in any way that I can.
The Uncomfortable Truth
Keith: What’s the uncomfortable truth you wish more music industry executives would just admit?
Matt: It’s probably not really an uncomfortable truth, but I think the industry, and it’s not necessarily all on the labels, artists, radio or digital places like Amazon or Spotify, but the industry has become so focused on letting numbers make the decisions. I understand that it’s business and information is important, but it really starts and stops with the music.
I know some great songs with no streams, and some pretty bad songs that somehow have huge streams (and they’ll eventually die). For me, maybe I’m just old school, but I think everything starts with a great song, not how many followers a band has. That’s the music industry I know and love. The one that’s truly about the music. That’s the one that will never die.
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Keith Cunningham is a music industry and Rock/Alternative columnist for Barrett Media and the founder of Black Box Group, a modern-modeled creative & strategic consultancy built for brands that need strategies with teeth. He’s the former Master of Mayhem at 95.5 KLOS-FM in Los Angeles for over a decade, a nationwide consultant, and has been repeatedly voted one of America’s top Program Directors and strategic thinkers. Keith has built his career by taking multi-million-dollar brands from worst to first and leading Marconi & Gracie award winners along the way. A data nerd with a rock-and-roll heart, he is an advisory council member for St. Jude fundraising, a fantasy football champion, and lover of his daughters & dogs. Reach him at keithblackboxgroup@gmail.com or on LinkedIn or X.
