Thank you for checking out ‘The Industry According To’. This series runs each Tuesday, and features radio and record industry executives, managers, programmers, talent, artists, and professionals from all areas of the business world. To be considered as a future guest, email me at keithblackboxgroup@gmail.com.
Today we visit with a Radio Hall of Fame talent everyone has heard of. He’s won ratings and revenue battles at the highest levels and helped reshape how morning shows sound in many markets. His resume includes creating an international incident, embarrassing the President of France, and triggering investigations from law enforcement. His name is Gene Baxter, but you can call him “Bean.”
After a long career at KROQ, being one-half of the legendary “Kevin & Bean Show,” he now currently hosts on SiriusXM’s Lithium. In addition, he also co-hosts the podcast, “A Cup of Tea and a Chat with Allie and Bean.”
Bean is a radio lifer. He’s one of the smartest in the room, and if you’ve ever heard him on the radio, he’s not afraid to speak his mind.
So, let’s dive in.
Where’s Radio At?
Keith: You’ve been out of the day-to-day grind for a few years, but I know you still follow the industry closely. From your perspective, where is radio today? What’s it doing right, and where might it be going wrong?
Bean: I’ve been in radio for 49 years this year and still love it as much as ever but there is no doubt these are challenging times. I don’t listen to much anymore that is not on demand. Content is still king but other platforms are far more convenient than linear programming. And the commercial load on US radio is well beyond my comfort level. The billion dollar question is how to get people to tune back in and that solution is more for smart guys like you, Keith, than worker bees like me.
The UK and the U.S.
Keith: Having lived in the UK for years and even doing some radio there, what are the key differences in commercial radio between the U.S. and UK? Do they sound similar? Are ratings as important? Are the programming and revenue models analogous?
Bean: We are years behind America here in one way. Massive consolidation has only hit much more recently here leading to hundreds of layoffs and contraction of programming. But we are years ahead of moving nearly everyone to digital platforms. There is almost no AM radio anymore here and FM stations are minor players compared to DAB and DAB+ stations. Less than 25% of radio listening in the UK is on terrestrial radio. Yes, ratings still matter and even the commercial-free BBC needs to justify their license fees by satisfying as many people as possible. The major radio group apps (Bauer, Global, BBC) are well- integrated into people’s lives here.
Being Dangerous
Keith: “The Kevin & Bean Show” is famous for having dangerous and rebellious traits and content — The Miss Double December Pageant, legendary pranks like Blink-182 playing in a parking lot that didn’t exist, the Thom Yorke “altercation,” and the Jerry Lewis/Jacques Chirac bit that caused an international stir. That kind of material is rare on radio now. Has the industry lost some of its edge — and should more of that spirit return (within FCC guidelines), or is it better left in the history books?
Bean: Most radio stations have always been controversy-free but the few that we’re willing to let talent push the envelope have now retreated from that position, it seems to me. Maybe the thinking is sales dollars are too hard to come by now so why risk ticking people off? Keith, you hear much more US radio than I do. What was the last surprising morning show bit, stunt, whatever you want to call it, that you heard? How long ago was it? I can’t think of any. Please let me add that I am very embarrassed by many of the things we did on the radio in the ‘90s and ‘00s and I am grateful society has evolved into a kinder, gentler, more inclusive place. In our later years we definitely changed with the times, thankfully.
Building a Winner
Keith: Kevin & Bean didn’t start on top; it was a long build. Today’s younger talent often wants success immediately. What advice would you give an aspiring talent on what it actually takes to build a winning show with real longevity?
Bean: We were incredibly lucky to have champions in our corner at KROQ. GM Trip Reeb, PDs Andy Schuon and Kevin Weatherly gave us the time we needed to learn the job. We were so bad when we started, having never done a morning show before, but they nurtured us and supported us. Radio doesn’t really mint household names anymore but there are many, many internet content creators who found a niche, worked hard, and are incredibly successful. The rules of engagement are the same no matter the job though. Serve your audience. Be authentic. Be interesting. Be consistent.
Audience Connection
Keith: Kevin & Bean had an incredibly loyal audience, and that can’t be bought. What’s the key to building that kind of listener relationship, and is it harder to do today than it was twenty years ago?
Bean: It’s harder to get those pre-podcast, pre-Covid numbers now, but you can still build a strong relationship with the listeners you can get. My former colleague Allie Mac Kay and I started a podcast together in October of 2020. It’s called “A Cup Of Tea And A Chat.” We only have a few thousand paid subscribers on Patreon, a tiny fraction of the old KROQ numbers, but they are the most loyal and interactive audience I have ever experienced. The community they have built would you make you cry. The friendships they’ve forged with each other, and the way they help each other out, it’s beautiful. We are 800 episodes in and I still can’t believe how many of them are still proud “Teabaggers.” Allie and I are both extremely accessible to them and try to super serve their interests. We are grateful for their feedback.
Is Alternative Still… Alternative
Keith: You lived in Alternative radio when it truly felt counterculture. On a scale of 1 to 10 — where 1 is basically CHR and 10 is legit Alternative, where does terrestrial Alternative radio sit today, and why?
Bean: I don’t want to sound like a homer here but the shining example of a 10 out of 10 alternative radio station is KROQ in the mid to late 80s. They were brilliant, wacky, adventurous, and really reflective of their left-of-center audience. Most what-we-call alternative stations today are actually so diluted and bland as to be really mainstream alternative, an oxymoron, I know. I hate that they are 85 percent gold now and the “oh wow!” records are just another different Red Hot Chilli Peppers song. I know it’s a 25 – 54 numbers game and those stations are giving the available audience what they think they want but I wish stations would try a little harder to surprise and delight, both with talent and tunes. Current grade: 6. Come at me, bro.
Why Repetition Works
Keith: Many probably don’t know this but “The Kevin & Bean Show” would repeat content often. It wouldn’t be reckless to say you did one show daily but aired much of it twice each morning. That comes from an understanding of audience turnover, their habits, available windows, etc. What’s your philosophy on morning shows repeating content?
Bean: It went against everything I thought I believed for the first few years but the diaries didn’t lie. There was not one person listening at 8:30 who had been listening at 6:30. So we leaned in and built a wheel. If we didn’t have a couple of things to replay later in the show then we weren’t doing a very good show that day. And we almost never got a complaint for repeating except from the superfans and they were going to listen anyway.
Transparency and Self-Deprecation
Keith: A big part of your career has been your willingness to be transparent and your ability to find humor in almost anything, especially yourself. You were often put on display by co-hosts and listeners for your obsessions with 7-Eleven, the post office, or “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.” How important are transparency and self-deprecation for on-air talent.
Bean: I mentioned authenticity earlier and that is maybe the key ingredient to success. In many fields. The things we ribbed each other about were all real things that we found funny. and the oddball traits that each person had were usually the things the audience would most remember about them. I still get former Kevin and Bean listeners sending me everything they ever come across about the Fitz. Kevin loved monkeys. Ralph was the Batman guy, etc. Self-deprecation is an appealing trait but it also wasn’t phony. We did not take ourselves too seriously and it was also fun to laugh at everyone else.
The Art of an Interview
Keith: You’re top tier when it comes to interviewing people on-air. What’s the real trick to pulling off a great interview — and who’s been your toughest guest?
Bean: Research, yes, Watch the movies, read the books, track down everything you can online. That’s all “Interview 101”. Where you shine is when you put that out of your mind and actually listen to the guest. Pick up on what he or she is saying and look for unexpected places to take the conversation. Ask the follow-up question. Then another if warranted. Don’t be in a rush to get back to the pre-planned run sheet of how you thought it was going to go. And your real secret weapon is curiosity. In my opinion, that is the absolute most important trait an air talent can have, not just for interviews, but for taking phone calls, talking about news stories, everything.
Talent Bean Likes
Keith: You’ve always had a sharp ear for talent. What shows or personalities do you listen to these days and think, “this is really great”? Give us some listening homework — and maybe a reason or two why you are such a fan.
Bean: You know who is an incredible air talent? A real natural. Smart, funny, with incredible musical knowledge, and a fantastic interviewer? John Mayer. Born to do it, if he weren’t also born to be a phenomenal guitarist and singer-songwriter. He has his own channel (4) on SiriusXM.
I have about ten podcasts I listen to every week including one about radio that anyone interested in the talent side of the business should check out. It’s called Game Changers Radio, out of Australia. I think the Louis Theroux podcast is my absolute favorite interview show right now. My old friends Luke Burbank and Andrew Walsh have been hosting “Too Beautiful To Live” for the past 15 years and were really my inspiration when starting my own podcast. They taught me the value of minutia. The most interesting things in the world are rarely the most important. And they have, again, authenticity, in spades.
The World According to Bean
Keith: I know how much you love radio and have thoughts on everything, both positive and constructive. The last question is just a blank slate: what haven’t you said that you want the industry to hear?
Bean: I know I have been a Debbie Downer about the state of radio today. But I am sure there are many great programmers and air personalities doing amazing and inspiring work right now that I just don’t know about. I want to say thank you. Keep doing it. I want you to succeed. Thanks to everyone trying to make it better. And thank you to Keith Cunningham for this series and his thoughtful coverage of our industry every week here on Barrett Media. And for anyone who wants to reach out and say hi, I’m at Bean9@mac.com.
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Keith Cunningham is a music industry and Rock/Alternative columnist for Barrett Media and the founder of Black Box Group, a modern-modeled creative & strategic consultancy built for brands that need strategies with teeth. He’s the former Master of Mayhem at 95.5 KLOS-FM in Los Angeles for over a decade, a nationwide consultant, and has been repeatedly voted one of America’s top Program Directors and strategic thinkers. Keith has built his career by taking multi-million-dollar brands from worst to first and leading Marconi & Gracie award winners along the way. A data nerd with a rock-and-roll heart, he is an advisory council member for St. Jude fundraising, a fantasy football champion, and lover of his daughters & dogs. Reach him at keithblackboxgroup@gmail.com or on LinkedIn or X.
