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Kenny Mayne To Boomer & Gio: ‘You Were Forced To Interview Me, I Get It’

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Kenny Mayne is doing a podcast for Audacy called Hey Mayne. It makes sense that the company would want to have the former SportsCenter anchor on a number of its radio stations to promote the new show.

Friday morning, Mayne was on Boomer & Gio on WFAN in New York. The morning show rarely welcomes guests but made an exception for Mayne.

It soon became clear why.

The introduction Gregg Giannotti read was full of promotion for the new show, including describing Kenny Mayne as “a new friend in the Audacy family”. It sounded as if it came directly from corporate. That was not lost on Kenny Mayne.

“You’re trying to say you were forced to do this interview is essentially what you just said. I get it,” he responded.

Gio laughed saying that all he wanted to do was tell people what was going on with the company.

The interview overall was very pleasant and not remotely contentious. Mayne described swearing into a microphone as “the fun part” of doing a podcast. He also paused the interview briefly to order coffee.

Nick Wilson Returning To 92.3 The Fan in Afternoon Drive

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Nick Wilson is going home. The Ohio native is returning to Cleveland to anchor afternoon drive on 92.3 The Fan alongside Dustin Fox. Ken Carman and Anthony Lima made the announcement Friday morning, welcoming Wilson to their show.

The station has been looking for a new afternoon host since earlier this year when Adam The Bull announced he was leaving to pursue new projects.

“Having Nick back in Cleveland to rejoin our lineup is a great moment for the Fan, the radio home of the Browns and the most local sports talk in Cleveland,” said Tom Herschel, Senior Vice President and Market Manager, Audacy Cleveland.

Wilson came to Charlotte in 2018 to take over the midday slot on WFNZ. He worked initially with Josh Parcell, who left the station in 2020, and then with Stan Norfleet. Currently, he has been working as a solo host.

July 15th will be Wilson’s final show in Charlotte. His first day on the air in Cleveland will be Monday, July 18th. Wilson is expected to address the situation with his WFNZ audience during his midday show today.

The first run at The Fan for Wilson lasted just under eight years. He joined the station in September of 2011 hosting the nighttime show The Nick Wilson Experiment before leaving in July of 2018 to move to Charlotte.

“Leaving Cleveland was an impossible decision four years ago,” said Wilson. “It’s an honor to be rejoining 92.3 The Fan. Afternoon drive in Cleveland is hallowed ground, and I can’t think of a better person to team up with than Dustin Fox. I can’t thank Tom Herschel, Andy Roth and the entire leadership group at Audacy Cleveland enough for making my dreams come true again.”

As for WFNZ, the station’s plans for middays are not solidified yet. Program Director Jeff Rickard is expected to have an announcement in the near future.

Brian Windhorst’s Incredible TV Was The Result of Awful Communication Execution

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I’m going to be that guy. You know, the one who takes something totally harmless that everyone is enjoying and decides he should explain why this thing isn’t as great as everyone thinks. Invariably, this criticism will be prefaced with the word “actually.” Yeah, that guy.

So here goes: As entertaining as Brian Windhorst’s two minutes of theatrical conjecture was on First Take last Friday, it was actually a demonstration of things that hosts and analysts should avoid. It was self-indulgent. It came at the expense of the moderator, Christine Williamson, and co-panelists Freddie Coleman and Courtney Cronin. Most of all, it was a deliberately vague way to communicate what should have been a fairly straightforward analysis: there were signs that Danny Ainge would do in Utah what he did in Boston, which is why Rudy Gobert may be on the trade block.

Windhorst’s soliloquy spawned a thousand memes and entertained us all the Friday before a holiday weekend, but upon further review, I’ve decided it was like watching a man smell his own farts and describe them as if they were a wine.

Look, I gave you fair warning that I was going to be that guy. It doesn’t mean I’m wrong, though.

Windhorst’s theatrics were memorable. They were funny. I’ve screen-shotted a few of them myself. It is not something to be emulated, though, nor heralded as some sort of master class. The result may have been unforgettable, but the process that led to it had some serious issues. Let’s take a look.

Windhorst: “There was a trade yesterday between the Utah Jazz and the Brooklyn Nets. A very strange trade. A very strange trade. You’d really have to be a Jazz or a Nets fan to even know what I’m talking about right now.”

Freddie Coleman: “OK.”

Windhorst: “I don’t know even know if you guys know what I’m talking about.”

Christine Williamson: “I’m at the edge of my seat. I have Woj’s notifications turned on, but I don’t remember this.”

Pause.

Rhetorical questions are a terrible tool to use on a panel unless you’re actually seeking to minimize the expertise of your colleagues. Windhorst openly questions whether they even know about the transaction he’s talking about, which puts his colleagues in a no-win situation. If they answer him correctly, they appear like students responding to the teacher. If they answer it incorrectly, it shows they’re as clueless as he’s implying.

In either case, Windhorst isn’t really looking for the answer. He’s seeking to build suspense, but he’s doing it at the expense of his colleagues.

OK. Let’s resume.

Windhorst: “They traded Royce O’Neale, who is a role-playing 3-point, defensive shooter to Brooklyn for a future first-round draft pick. And so you’re going, ‘What do you care about Royce O’Neale? Why does that matter? Why would the Jazz do that?’

“Why would the Jazz – who have two stars on their roster – take a player who’s one of their starters and best defensive players and trade him in a salary-dumping move? Why would they do that?”

Courtney Cronin: “To open space to try to land Kevin?”

Windhorst: “No.”

Coleman: “Part of a three-team trade?”

These are totally reasonable suggestions from Cronin and Coleman given that the question on the First Take chyron is “Where is the best landing spot for Durant?” Windhorst is asking questions, and they’re trying to be good teammates by playing along. Their reward is to look like they’re being schooled by Windhorst’s X-ray vision into the significance of this move, which by the way, he has decided to make the centerpiece of a discussion that was supposed to be about Durant.

Let’s see where he goes next.

Windhorst: “You say, ‘Why did Quin Snyder walk away from that job?’”

Williamson: (Leans in) “OK?”

Windhorst: “And you say, ‘When Danny Ainge, the last time he hired a coach, it was Brad Stevens.’ “

Coleman: “Right.”

I’m sorry, but you’re the one saying those things, Brian. You’re the one who’s setting up this line of inquiry, and you’re leaving your colleagues to try and intuit where the hell you’re going while using this whole second-person construction.

Is your point that Danny Ainge might be following the same blueprint in Utah that he executed in Boston? Because that’s a really good point. And instead of letting everyone twist themselves dizzy try to get there, why don’t you, I don’t know, say what you mean in the fewest words possible. That’s kind of the whole idea of effective communication.

OK. Sorry. Getting carried away. Go ahead, resume, Brian.

Windhorst: “What happened that same year? What did he do, when he hired this young coach who had never coached in the NBA before, and he gave him a long contract. He gave Brad Stevens a six-year contract. Will Hardy – who they just hired, who could potentially be a great young coach – they gave him a 5-year contract. Very rare for a first-time head coach to get a 5-year contract. Why? What’s going on in Utah?”

Williamson: “What’s going on in …”

Windhorst: “And that’s what people in the league are watching right now.”

Coleman: “OK.”

Time for a rhetorical question of my own: Why in world would it be at all surprising the front-office executives who run the 28 other NBA teams are intensely interested in this trade? Isn’t that what these executives are paid to do? They’re supposed to be intensely interested in what their competitors are doing. In fact, I would think that an executive would have to be criminally negligent NOT to be wondering what this trade signified about the intentions and plans of this playoff team with a new general manager who has just traded a starter. Why is this noteworthy?

Windhorst: “What’s going on in Utah?”

OK. I’ll bite, Brian. What do you think is going on in Utah? I mean, I’m more interested in where Durant will wind up, and that was supposed to be this segment, but we’re an awful long way from home now, and I’ve invested enough time that I am legitimately curious as to what this Utah team with this new general manager and this new coach might be doing that would prompt them to deal Royce O’Neale.

Windhorst: “And so I think the Brooklyn Nets and the Phoenix Suns need to find out what’s going on in Utah as well. Because what else happened that first year that Brad Stevens got hired? Danny Ainge traded Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce.”

Coleman: “To the Brooklyn Nets.”

God bless Freddie Coleman. Man is he trying. What a total pro. He’s listened to Windhorst wander through his thoughts for nearly two minutes now, and Coleman is trying, he’s really trying, to connect this back to the actual subject of this segment which is a potential destination for Durant. Alas, no.

Windhorst: “That trade, that Royce (O’Neale) trade, it was a very strange trade.”

Now, credit where it’s due: The O’Neale trade did in fact portend a sea change in Utah, which did end up unloading one of the two stars Windhorst mentioned, trading Rudy Gobert to the Minnesota Timberwolves.

It’s not the location of Windhorst’s soliloquy that’s my issue here, but his pitch selection. He clearly knew something was going on in Utah. He said as much later on an episode of his podcast, The Hoop Collective with Brian Windhorst.

Windhorst and Tim McMahaon were talking about the possibility of Gobert being traded the night before Windhorst’s First Take appearance. McMahon disclosed the actual details.

“It was pretty close to the trade that went down,” Windhorst said. “The biggest difference was that we thought Jaden McDaniels was going to be in that trade. The Jazz wanted Jaden McDaniels in that trade. The ‘Wolves refused, and that is reflected in the number of picks and the lack of protection on the picks.”

OK. So why didn’t Windhorst say that more directly? In part, because he wanted to avoid having that statement aggregated as Jordan Bondurant summarized at Barrett Sports Media on Thursday.

So instead of saying what he thought, Windhorst went through a two-minute journey of rhetorical questions and hand gestures, forcing his colleagues to follow along and try and guess what he was going on about. The end result was that a discussion about potential landing spots for Durant turned into a thorough examination of all the signs that pointed to the Jazz doing something big without ever saying something big despite the fact the man conducting this examination had a pretty good idea of what that something big was.

Was it good television? Sure. It was memorable and cut through on the Friday before a holiday weekend. It’s just not an approach anyone would be advised to repeat, including Windhorst.

Pitching Sales In the A, C, B Order

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Some of the things I write about here on BSM are sports radio or radio sales issues I had or continue to struggle with now. Over the last thirty-eight years of selling radio, one of the best habits I created for myself was figuring out how much money to ask for and for how long from the client. 

It is as easy as A, C, and B. In that order.

I struggled for a few years trying to customize every proposal and sensed how hard it sometimes was for me to ask how much money the client was “willing” to spend with me. I hadn’t built up enough knowledge, or financial security, to offer a budget solution to the client. I was scared that if I asked for too much money for too long of a time that the client would say that I was too expensive and wouldn’t accept a lower spend amount. I felt like I was shooting in the dark.

I started researching average advertising budgets based on gross sales through the RAB. I also had managers teach me that I should offer three proposals. The old good, better and best packages. Others have called it the bronze, silver, and gold packages. That felt too gimmicky to me. I wanted to sell from the feel, felt, and found perspective. I believe in the power of third-party endorsements, testimonial letters, or now Google reviews.

I had been trained and had accepted the benefits of telling prospects, “I understand your confusion on how long to advertise on the radio. Bitchin Motors felt the same way, and they found that twelve months was the most valid test.” So with that in mind, I researched more specific information on station advertisers’ contracts. I found out the average contract total and length for the station. I focused my research on short event-type flights and long-term monthly/weekly advertisers. I wanted to know what the most consistent advertisers were spending to get results and the same for concert promoters or local event advertisers.

I would present my results to each type of client. When dealing with monthly local direct advertisers, I suggest starting with 12-month contracts. I explain that this is the way to get the best rates on the station, and we can establish a 60-day out clause if they want to stop the advertising. It’s best to plan for success. Who wants to lose 40 pounds but only commit to one week diet? Try this the next time you want to know how much an advertiser may spend with you. During the discovery call, ask your prospect the following question:

Regarding monthly budgets, I usually work with three types of clients. Client A spends $1,000 a month on afternoon drive, only trying to get frequency with a smaller group of listeners. Client C buys all dayparts and wants every listener we have on the station at about $4,000 per month. My average client, Client B, spends about $2000 a month and focuses on both am and pm drive each week. Which are you most like?

Then SHUT UP. 

Most clients will gravitate to Client B. When presented with extremes, it’s the “safest” option. And, because you researched it and determined it gets results for most of the station’s long-term clients, you are setting them up for success. Let’s go with Plan B. 

Start downloading my podcast, Seller to Seller, on the BSM Podcast Network starting Monday, July 11. My guest is Alec Drake of Drake Media, and our topic is selling a rate increase. 

Brian Windhorst Says ESPN Uses Data to Curate First Take Topics

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Brian Windhorst was a guest on the Sports Illustrated Media Podcast with Jimmy Traina discussing that moment when he dropped some knowledge on how First Take works.

He began by talking about one of the reasons he presented his story the way that he did on First Take was because the first segment of that show is unconventionally long.

“The ‘A’ block of First Take, I’ve been on it when it’s gone 25 minutes before,” Windhorst said. “It’s not usually scripted out to that. It’s got air”.

Windhorst then got into the analytical way ESPN builds that programming.

“Most ESPN shows, specifically the morning tv shows, first off you’re not getting three straight minutes of talking on one topic and you’re certainly not getting it on the Utah Jazz. I don’t say that with any animus,” Windhorst said.

Instead, he would explain, the network gathers data on what viewers are responding to in order to create a daily show like First Take.

“The ESPN shows, the topics are curated by data analysis. What you’re seeing is a product of what you’re watching as a collective,” said the NBA Insider. “I’ve been at ESPN for twelve years now and one of the big differences from when I started to now is just how much analysis they have, the producers and the decision makers have on what people are watching and they respond to.”

Windhorst quipped that if people don’t like what they are seeing, perhaps look over your fence.

“For anybody that complains about what they are seeing, they can only look to their neighbors because that’s what their neighbors want to see”.

Disney Has Abandoned Idea of ESPN Spin-Off

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For nearly a year, rumors and reports have popped up that Disney has been exploring, and in some stories negotiating a way, to spin-off ESPN from Disney. Disney’s interest and efforts to do so are no longer.

Puck’s Dylan Byers reports from the Sun Valley Conference, that he has heard that Bob Chapek, Disney’s Chief Executive Officer, is no longer pursuing the effort.

In the midst of some large media companies not growing at the rate once seen, and in a lot of cases declining, the appeal of being in streaming and linear offerings is strong.

“While still highly lucrative, these low-to-no growth businesses were in structural decline and hung like an albatross around Chapek and (WBD CEO David) Zaslav’s necks, preventing their companies from being valued at the coveted ‘Netflix multiple,'” Byers says.

Byers also sees live sports becoming even more important going forward and that we may see how new media deals will work, especially with tech companies like Apple and Amazon being aggressive in attempting to harness the live sports market.

Pat McAfee Signs Multiyear Contract Extension with WWE

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On Thursday, the WWE announced that it has signed Pat McAfee to a multiyear contract extension. McAfee has been an analyst for Friday Night SmackDown on FOX since April 2021 alongside play-by-play commentator Michael Cole.

McAfee has also seen his share of time inside the ring. He previously wrestled for the company’s third brand, NXT but truly left his mark this past April at the WWE’s signature event, Wrestlemania.

The popular sports personality who fans can’t seem to get enough of will continue his duties with the WWE in addition to his daily show, The Pat McAfee Show.

The WWE said in their announcement that “the new pact will see McAfee entertaining the WWE Universe for years to come”.

Dirt and Sprague: ESPN Doesn’t Care About Radio

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Portland’s 1080 The Fan is an ESPN Radio affiliate. The Fan also features the morning show Dirt and Sprague which airs immediately after ESPN Radio’s Keyshawn, JWill & Max. So it might’ve been surprising to hear the Portland morning team kick off their program today questioning if ESPN cares about their radio product anymore.

Keyshawn, JWill & Max had a segment discussing voice exercises with Jay Williams and in it they captured one of Williams’ guttural attempts at that feat. The show ended with several minutes of the clip being played often. Then Dirt and Sprague came on the air and the guys were aghast.

Andy “Dirt” Johnson started almost immediately by saying “Should we just start yelling like the last show? Is that how we should start today? [mocking guttural scream] Just start screaming. That’s my homage to them. Continue to make some random noise over, and over, and over again as they continue to not care about ESPN Radio anymore.”

The show then began a discussion of when they thought ESPN lost emphasis on the product.

Brandon Sprague said he believed it was when Dan Le Batard left the network.

“Someone would probably say when Colin left, I would say when Le Batard left,” Sprague surmised, “but there seems to be a real ‘less than interested’ feeling from Bristol on their radio situation”

“I’m not even 100% what their lineup is,” Sprague added.

The show attempted to remember the lineup and then when prompted with the programming, struggled to recognize the hosts. They then continued to wonder when ESPN left radio behind.

“It would probably be when Colin left,” Sprague offered, “you would say ESPN Radio, and how they feel with their own entity [changed] in that way?

Johnson retorted that he thought when ESPN lost three programming pillars, their focus began to wane.

“I would say the splitting up of Mike and Mike was involved in that too. That was their morning staple for a long time,” said Johnson. “You had the Mike and Mike split-up, you had Le Batard leave, which was only a matter of time until he left, and then Colin leaving. Those were their three radio monsters especially in the morning. When they were all gone it was like “where do we go from here?”

“So now they’re just punting on it,” said Sprague.

“Based on the last segment we heard,” began Johnson, “they are punting on it because it was just yelling for five straight minutes”.

Sprague also said that if ESPN prioritized radio, they would allow their radio talents to do radio and not be removed for other priorities.

“They also drag them off live radio to do TV hits,” Sprague mentioned.

Johnson asked, “Could you imagine if we did that on something? Like, ‘Hey Sprague. I’m going to have to take twenty minutes off in the eight o’clock hour because we got a Twitch stream thing to do that’s more important than our radio show”.

Carman and Lima Recall When Radio Hosts Weren’t Able To Be Authentic On Air

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Ken Carman and Anthony Lima were left feeling introspective after listening to Dan Le Batard and his crew recap Dan’s relationship with the late Hank Goldberg.

Carman acknowledged that he has never been a regular listener to Dan Le Batard, so he did not know what to expect. He was unaware of just how bad the relationship was between the two Miami radio hosts.

“I’m hearing a very successful group of people just eviscerate a guy who was a very successful man in Florida,” Carman said on the duo’s Emerging Podcast Scene on Thursday.

He said that Le Batard’s and Stugotz’s comments made him consider some of what radio used to be and the way he was told to act when he first got into the business. He wondered how many of his radio colleagues would surprise him by having negative things to say about their time working together.

“I came up doing the grunt stuff in radio and so I hear that and I just never want to be that guy.”

Ken Carman mentioned that at multiple points in his career, he was told to rip callers occasionally. He said that the first time he did that on his own night show, he felt bad about it because he knew he didn’t mean anything he was saying.

He also mentioned that when he was on air in Akron as a third mic, he was told that was his role. He was supposed to be the show’s jerk, but it was a persona he could only keep up for about three weeks.

Carman’s goal was always to host his own sports talk show in Cleveland. He knew that if that ever came to fruition, the listeners would not recognize the real him.

Some of the clips of Hank Goldberg that were played on The Dan Le Batard Show left Carman in shock. He described one clip as “deplorable”.

Anthony Lima said that he grew up loving what he called “mean radio,” mentioning shows like Howard Stern and Opie & Anthony. However, he noted that he wondered how many of his favorite hosts in that genre were actually jerks.

“I just wonder in the old radio world, where it was the wild, wild West, and there were ratings wars, vicious ratings wars back in the day when the ratings weren’t even accurate, do you think one thing birthed the next?” he asked Carman. “Do you think the theater that people wanted to hear ended up creating this personality that didn’t exist?”

Larry Bowa Warns Angelo Cataldi Fans Will Boo First Pitch If It’s Not a Strike

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The Philadelphia Phillies are set to honor the career of Angelo Cataldi on July 24. The WIP morning legend will throw out the first pitch at Citizens Bank Park that afternoon. Former Phillies manager Larry Bowa will be behind the plate.

Bowa joined Cataldi on air Thursday morning to offer some advice. He told Cataldi that if the team asked him today, Bowa could still throw a strike from the mound. He was going to help Cataldi try to do the same.

He was concerned that Cataldi may not have any friends to practice with. After Cataldi assured the former manager that he had someone that was at least willing to pretend, Bowa gave him some tips.

“First of all, you start out at about 30, 35 feet while you preparing for this,” Larry Bowa said. “Make sure you throw every ball chest high. Throw a four-seam fastball. Do that three or four days then backup to 50, 55 feet. Do that a couple of days, and then finally you get on the mound.”

There was a word of warning for Angelo Cataldi. Larry Bowa said he once served as the catcher for a ceremonial first pitch from Mike Schmidt, widely regarded as one of the very best to ever put on a Phillies uniform.

Schmidt chose to throw from the mound and bounced it. Bowa doesn’t want Cataldi to make the same mistake.

“If you go to the mound and you don’t throw a strike, if you bounce it, I’m gonna tell you, you know this area better than anybody in the world. You will get booed off that mound,” he said. “So, if I were you, I would get right at the edge of the dirt there and throw a nice strike and everybody will give you a nice standing ovation and everything like that.”

Angelo Cataldi made Bowa promise to frame the ball so that whatever he throws looks like a strike to the crowd.

“I need you to get it to me on a fly, Ang,” Bowa responded.