Shan Shariff can be described as many things on the air. He can be sarcastic, funny, opinionated, creative and downright ballsy. I remember having a conversation with sports agent Craig Fenech once about Shan and he told me “this guy had the balls to pick up Mark Cuban’s tab at a restaurant“. When I asked Shan about it, he confirmed that it happened but said that he got lucky because Cuban that day had only ordered a chicken salad.
What I remember liking about that story was that this was relatively a short time after Shan had arrived in Dallas and I thought to myself “what better way to show that you’re determined to stand out in a new market than to get the attention of the Mavericks billionaire owner“.
While that story certainly got my attention, I was already familiar with Shan’s work. Prior to moving to Dallas, Shan worked for 610 Sports in Kansas City and local ESPN Radio affiliate in Maryland. I remember hearing his work for the first time courtesy of Jon Chelesnik at STAA Talent while Shan was in Maryland and when I listened to him I thought he was unique which was a good thing. There was a lot to like in the original presentation even though he was still a little green.
Shan’s profile would start to become more familiar to people in the sports radio industry when he landed a weekend slot with 106.7 The Fan. I remember David Brody of BMS calling me around that time to once again put him on my radar but I was in St. Louis and didn’t have a need so we agreed to keep in touch if things were to change in the future.
As luck would have it, an opening would pop open in Kansas City and Shan’s work was recognized by Program Director Ryan Maguire who would hire him to host a 2-hour midday show for the radio station. From there, Shan’s career started to take off. He spent the next year working for 610 where he’d fine tune his craft, become more polished and start to gain some ratings traction and his hard work and success would draw the attention of Bruce Gilbert in Dallas who would make the decision to hire Shan and bring his “New School” style to Dallas where he’d team up with RJ Choppy for 105.3 The Fan.
Interesting enough, at the time when he was being hired in Dallas, I had a spot open up in St. Louis and I had contacted David Brody after listening to a few days of Shan’s shows in Kansas City. I told David I wanted to know a little more about Shan’s status but was told “I wish I could tell you but I can’t do that right now“.
David and I have known each other a long time and he’s been a great guy to network with so I knew this meant he had something bigger brewing for Shan which I was glad to hear. A few days later the news would come out that Shan was off to Dallas and he hasn’t slowed down since arriving on the scene in March of 2011.
Today when I listen to Shan’s show, I find it to be very entertaining, fast paced and built for Men 18-44. It has an element of unpredictability which I like and I think that’s important especially during morning drive. When you take into account that there are three competitive sports radio stations battling for every quarter hour of listening in the Dallas market, shows need to be unique to the local audience and Shan and RJ have found their place in the overall mix.
Aside from what you hear on the air, Shan is one of the most active personalities in the entire sports radio industry on social media. You may not listen to his show in Dallas if you live out of the market but if you follow him on Twitter you feel like you know everything that’s happening with the program. From morning to evening, he’s always engaging with his fans and that accessibility and willingness to interact is a big reason in my opinion while he’s built up great support for what he does.
I exchanged a few messages with Shan to get a sense of how he has approached blending into new markets, why he’s so active on social media, the competitive landscape of Dallas sports radio and what he believes is important in executing a 4-hour morning show and I think you’ll enjoy the results of that conversation.
Q: How did you get started in sports talk radio?
A: After college, I scalped a ticket to the Spurs-Nets NBA finals and recorded play-by-play on a mini-recorder. A buddy of mine who worked at a Baltimore television station was able to sync up my audio with the television broadcast and I had my VHS resume tape. The program director in my hometown of Cambridge, MD was impressed (with the editing more than anything) and hired me to host a three hour daily show on their ESPN affiliate.
Q: Who are some of your influences that got you interested in pursuing a sports broadcasting career?
A: Dan Patrick, Marv Albert, Dick Enberg, Colin Cowherd.
Q: After starting your career in Maryland, you left for Kansas City to host mid-days for 610 Sports. How difficult was it to enter the market as an outsider and attempt to win people over? How did you approach the situation to show people you were invested in the things they cared about?
A: It was a challenge at first, but I think the audience realized I could bring an objective view of their favorite teams. It would have been MUCH different if I was a Raiders fan in Chiefs territory, but they weren’t offended by my Redskins love.
The way I showed people I was invested was to work and prepare. I had to quickly learn everything possible about the football and basketball programs at Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State. Once they realized I knew their players and coaches, I think I was accepted.
Q: When you reflect back on your experiences in Kansas City, what stands out as the best and worst part of it?
A: Best part was having early success. My time spent listening was very high and I gained confidence that my style could work in an awesome sports market. Worst part was only having a two hour show.
Q: Following your stint in KC, you moved to Dallas where you’ve since worked for 2 great programmers (Bruce Gilbert and Gavin Spittle) at 105.3 The Fan. Share one thing they’ve taught you that you use in your approach each day?
A: Bruce preached likability while teaching me everything I know about Arbitron. From setting appointments to resetting, teasing, getting to the point or hooking the listener, Bruce always had new, creative ways to attack the PPM game.
I’ve never been looser as a host than now under Gavin. He encourages fun, lifestyle topics and bits that provide a nice release from hardcore sports during a four and a half hour show. I used to be afraid to do non-sports on a sports show. Gavin changed that way of thinking.
Q: You sang “Hail To The Redskins” to Jerry Jones while hosting your show on the radio home of the Dallas Cowboys. How much flack did you take from the team and your bosses for it? Were you at all worried about losing listeners as a result of cheering for the enemy?
I never worried about losing listeners when I started because I never want to hide who I am, but I think it was a mistake. I probably overestimated the ability and willingness of some to separate my fandom from the way I covered the Cowboys. I just figured my honesty wouldn’t hurt me in Dallas because it didn’t in KC. Looking back, it probably cost me some listeners the minute I revealed my favorite team.
Q: In your market there are 3 strong sports radio stations (The Fan, The Ticket, ESPN 103.3) – how is your show unique vs. your competition? What do you do regularly to stand out?
A: The biggest way I try to gain an advantage on competition is out-working everyone. I know I sleep less and read more than anyone. I always think about our next show and remain obsessed with higher ratings in this market.
I think the biggest difference between us and the competition is pace and energy. We’re never going to be a slow product that feels like it’s dragging. Whether it’s Facebook, Twitter, texts or taking calls, we interact with our audience more than any show in DFW, it’s not even close.
I also believe we’re more creative topic wise than anyone because we over prepare every single day. The greatest compliment I can get is “I never thought of it that way.”
Q: You currently work with RJ Choppy on a 2-man show but previously the program had a third member (Jasmine Sadry). Which setup do you prefer and how does your approach and preparation change when doing a 3-person show vs. a 2-person show?
A: Bruce Gilbert always wanted two voices to sound like four and four to sound like six. RJ and I have always been the primary voices but we also have producers chime in. It probably took me three years to get comfortable. I had trouble not taking over for three minutes and setting everyone up for air-time. Talking over each other is a turn-off to everyone and that only happens with multiple people in the room.
The positives are different viewpoints, having twice the prep work and it’s nice to regroup during a segment while the other is talking. I would probably prefer a two person show for more air-time but depending on how good the talent and chemistry are, three would also work. Our mid-day show has five voices.
Q: When it comes to executing a 4-hour show, how many guests do you like to have on, how many segments involve callers, how many features are included, etc? What’s the right type of balance in your opinion?
A: I would like to have three guests for a four hour show. If the guest list is like Dan Patrick, you can have five a day. I fight the caller debate every year. My recent bosses prefer less calls and more host. Yes, there are some hosts who lazily rely on open phone lines but I believe in empowering the audience.
One of the things I loved about hosting solo was the increased caller segments and interaction with listeners. There will always be calls that suck, but I always thought I could control the quality of them with the topics I set-up and questions I asked. Calls can also make a show sound busy and break up the monotony of a solo program.
Q: You’re on the air for 4.5 hours per day which equals 22.5 hours per week – are there any tricks you use to keep yourself mentally focused and engaged in every segment?
A: With multiple people on the show, I’ve never really had a problem with focus. I think it’s MUCH easier to stay engaged as the quarterback of the show with the additional responsibilities you have. I also take my job very seriously (probably too much), so I’m usually pretty intense while the red light is on.
Q: You’re extremely active on social media (one of the busiest in the format). Why do you believe that’s important for an on-air personality?
A: I want the audience to know I’m not too cool for them. I care about what they have to say. I’ll never forget the Twitter joy I had in being followed by Adam Schefter so if I can follow someone back or like their Facebook comment, maybe they’ll appreciate it and be more invested as a listener.
One major thing I think hosts overlook is the brainstorming and topic ideas you can get through social networking. If two heads are better than one, isn’t 14,000 better than two? If a listener comes up with a great topic or sports question, I let them know they’re getting the credit tomorrow morning and hopefully they set the appointment for the tune in!
Q: When it comes to the critiquing process, how do you, RJ, Gavin and your support staff measure whether or not you’re making progress with the show?
A: I’m probably our biggest critic. From Ryan Maguire, Bruce Gilbert, Gavin Spittle and David Brody, I feel like I’ve already worked under some of the best minds in the business and can judge good or bad radio. We also have a daily meeting with Gavin where we review the show.
Q: You’ve advanced in your career and during the process, have used an agent to assist you. Do you believe an agent is necessary? What is the downside of using representation?
A: I don’t believe an agent is necessary, but there are certainly benefits. I went from Cambridge, MD to Kansas City because my agent had a relationship with the PD. Without that connection, I wouldn’t have been found. I HATE the thought of negotiating so having someone to handle the back and forth is always a relief for me.
The downside is you better hope your agent is respected, competent and gets along with management. The worst part is obviously paying their commission.
Q: For someone who’s considering a career in our industry, what piece of advice would you like to share based on your own experiences that may be helpful to them?
A: Work harder than everyone and be willing to start from the bottom. I can’t tell you how many kids I’ve seen in Dallas who are unsatisfied and feel held back (AND THEY’RE ON AIR!!!). They’re unwilling to move and have no idea what it’s like to make $20,000 while calling local little league games five years into your career. Be willing to accept and embrace coaching while reading more and sleeping less than your competition.
Shan Shariff can be heard weekday mornings on 105.3 The Fan in Dallas. To learn more about his show click here. You can also follow Shan on Twitter by clicking here.
There are many different approaches in sports talk radio so keep that in mind as you sift through this column. For some Programmers and Shows, they want nothing to do with guests or features on their airwaves, For others, they believe they’re vital to the station’s success. If you’re on the side of not wanting guests or regularly positioned features to appear on your airwaves then this piece probably isn’t for you because from where I sit, I believe they have very strong value when it comes to growing your ratings.
First, the host in my opinion is the main attraction that the audience is coming to see. To truly showcase him or her in a big way though, listeners expect to hear multiple things occur inside of a show. This is why callers are introduced, Facebook, Twitter and Text messages are read, soundbytes are used to further add emotion to stories, features are executed to showcase the show’s creative side and of course, guests appear to provide new information, entertainment and opinion on the day’s top stories. When it involves guests, I want people on the dial who fit the day’s angles, are recognizable to the audience and can speak clearly and offer information and an interesting viewpoint. It’s then up to my host(s) to do their part and pull the good stuff out of them.
When you look across the sports radio landscape today, you’ll notice many stations beefing up their programming regulars for football season. As an example, check out what WEEI in Boston put together for the fall (click here). I’m sure you’ll agree, it’s very impressive. Why do station’s do this? Because football drives the largest numbers for the format and every station wants to close out the final four months of the year in strong fashion so advertisers have something to feel good and excited about as they make decisions for the upcoming calendar year.
While adding NFL guests of significance can help your station improve during the fall when football takes center stage, it has less impact if the guests are not heard in a regular position. In today’s PPM world, ratings are achieved much more by driving occasions than they are by recall and happenstance. When a station heavily promotes the appearance of a well known guest for a set day and time, they’re doing so because they believe the audience behavior will adapt and that particular quarter hour of the guest’s regular appearance will generate strong ratings measurement. I believe in this same approach and it’s worked for me.
If the goal is to give the audience a reason to tune in consistently, then I have a difficult time understanding why a station would take an opposite approach and make the audience work to find the guest or creative benchmark. I’ve heard hosts, producers and programmers talk about not wanting to be predictable and while I can respect that and understand it, you can’t show me a specific ratings spike for unpredictability. Radio stations are measured by data the last time I checked, not perception from those who work inside of it.
Can you imagine if other businesses operated with that approach? Imagine if a roofing company told you they’d come by to fix your roof when they felt like doing it rather than providing a specific day and time. Try going to the dentist and see if you can get in when you feel like it. If it’s not scheduled, you’re not getting in unless it’s a major problem. Lastly, how about your local pizza company. Some places give you a window of time and promise to deliver your food by then or they’ll refund your money. What if they just told you “you’ll eat when we get it there”?
Is that really the best way for radio to treat its audience which has limited time already and doesn’t “need” to use us but instead “wants” to?
Remember, the radio station is taking on an expense by paying someone to appear each week. They believe the individual has a strong enough importance to the audience to be featured weekly and the content that they’ll be discussing has enough of an appeal to continue being highlighted for somewhere between 20-26 weeks. By positioning the guest on a set day and time, the station now gets the increased benefit of promoting it heavily via promos which makes it easier for the listener to find it plus the sales team now has a chance to sell a sponsorship with an adjacency commercial, which only helps increase the possibility of the client’s message being heard. That’s important because without satisfied clients, you don’t have the benefit of these types of opportunities.
If you’re booking someone with minimal value regularly, I’d ask you why you’re wasting money on them and tying up a quarter hour on your show. You don’t need to “fill segments” with guests who provide average return on your investment. You need to secure strong guests who matter to and connect with the audience. If you do that, then it’s the host’s job to maximize the opportunity. The good ones not only deliver strong quarter-hours with their regulars but they also work at getting to know them even better. By doing so, it strengthens the relationship and makes for an even more compelling and informative conversation. Let’s face it, people are more likely to open up and share things when they feel more connected to the person they’re speaking with. It’s all about comfort.
For the past 3 years in San Francisco and my previous 2 years in St. Louis, I’ve done deals with athletes, coaches, analysts and executives who I felt could help the programming team improve its performance. This approach has helped my employers see increased ratings and it’s given my staff and our shows a leg up when heading into their daily talk shows. While each market and guest opportunity is different, I don’t waver much on positioning people in regular spots because the top contributors typically outperform the show’s ratings and that has a lot to do with making sure the audience knows where to find it. Very rarely have I seen success come from weekly guests who weren’t offered in a set position.
For example, when I was in St. Louis, our afternoon show would deliver between a 6-8 share and place themselves consistently in the top 3. Those numbers were always at their peak during football season which was also when former Rams Running Back Steven Jackson would appear on the show every Monday at 4pm. Steven was the team’s top star at the time and he was the type of guy who fans either loved or hated so it wasn’t difficult to recognize that having him on regularly would lead to increased listening.
I remember looking at the quarter hour appearances for when Steven’s segment ran and they’d always be in the double digits. There was one specific appearance where he showed up and the segment registered a 26 share (back in 2006 after he got into a heated exchange on the field with Aaron Curry of the Seahawks) which was insane. In addition to that, the show would get lift in its next quarter-hour because the momentum from Steven’s interview would carry over. That’s the type of value that a great contributor can provide your show. Once the afternoon crew saw how Steven was helping them lead people to the dial, they became even more energized from it and worked diligently to find ways to make it even better. That’s the goal of what you’re trying to do with a regular weekly appointment.
Look at it like this, if you have a 4-hour daily talk show registering a 6 share and the contributor is strong enough to influence growth in two quarter-hours per day (one during the interview and one the segment after), that’s roughly over 10% of the show’s performance being lifted. If the show is 2-3 hours in length, the percentage is even higher. Now if you add more than 1 strong contributor per day to your station’s lineup, you’re slanting the odds in your favor even more and that’s ultimately what this game is about – playing the odds to give yourself a chance to win.
I have an old saying that I’ve used with some of my people over the years and I still believe in it to this day – when you look at a superstar athlete on your local team you should see one thing – dollar signs! On every team there is at least one superstar who people in your market are excited to cheer for. They buy tickets, merchandise, watch games on TV and listen to them on radio all because of this guy. If you have the ability to develop a relationship with that individual and grow it to the point where it leads to a regular position on your show, you’re going to see it pay off in a big way when it comes to growing your ratings, revenue and external buzz.
I’ve seen it happen with Steven Jackson, Buster Posey, Jerry Rice and countless others and it’s not going to change anytime soon. People today care more about what exists outside the lines than what happens inside the lines and they’re not just interested in the performer they see on the field, they want to know everything they can about the individual. The best way to do that is through a set regular appointment.
Every focus group and listener survey I’ve ever been a part of, guests usually generate a very high response. Your audience wants to hear from people they like, cheered for and have interesting opinions and insight to share on the subjects that appeal most to them. Usually the ones inside the radio station who want no part of the bigger guests are the people who either don’t want to do the leg work to track them down or those who feel that the appearance of the guest could upstage their own relevance.
In both cases, I think that’s ridiculous. When all is said and done, a strong high profile guest with great content to offer enhances the image of the host and the extra effort invested behind the scenes to get it done, leads to a measurable win for the show. To do big things takes hard work and if you’re not doing it, trust me your competitor will.
As I started out at the beginning of this piece, not everyone agrees with booking regular appointments and that’s ok. You’ve got to take the approach that you feel most comfortable with. For me though, I believe your shows start off feeling more confident because they know they have something strong and unique each day that the audience will enjoy. I know the advertisers like it because it allows them to be connected to high profile personalities which helps showcase their brand in a better light and I know the audiences support it because if the content has strong appeal and is easy to find, they’ll prefer routine over unpredictability.
At the end of the day, we’re in the ratings and revenue business and regular appointments help both sides of the operation deliver results. All we can go on is the evidence we’ve accumulated and as long as the data suggests that it helps us win, it’s our job to use it to help our shows and companies. After all, isn’t that what we’re in this for?
To many, Miami is known for its gorgeous beaches, beautiful weather, excellent restaurants and exciting lifestyle. What doesn’t get enough credit though is the wide array of outstanding radio talent who have called the market home throughout the years.
Previously, great personalities such as Hank Goldberg, Neil Rogers, Jim Mandich, Jorge Sedano and Dan Sileo have performed daily for South Florida sports radio listeners and the current crop of sports radio talent remains equally as strong. Today, listeners can tune in daily to hear hosts such as Dan LeBatard, Jon “Stugotz” Weiner, Joe Rose, Sid Rosenberg, Jonathan Zaslow, Adam Kuperstein and my featured personality for this week, Marc Hochman.
I first became familiar with Marc’s work when he was working for 790 The Ticket and what I noticed immediately was how much fun he had on the air. It was easy to tell that he enjoyed the job of entertaining an audience and the word “comedy” had a home in every one of his shows. I could also tell how he valued conversations with people who appeared on his programs and I remember always finding myself in a better mood after listening to him perform. In my opinion, if an on-air personality can help the audience laugh and learn, they’ll always have a fighting chance of keeping people consuming their content and Marc put himself in that position pretty consistently.
The other thing that stood out to me when I listened to Marc (and even others in the Miami market) was how there was a lot more value placed on entertainment, pop culture and lighter topics and not so much of an emphasis placed on hardcore sports talk. While Miami certainly has it’s share of passionate sports fans and on-air personalities just like many other markets, it’s also known for taking a more lighter approach and that’s where Marc shines. That’s not to suggest that he doesn’t have the ability to dive deeper into subjects because he certainly does but if you’re going to tune in for his show and expect an hour long conversation on why the third base coach sent the runner in the 4th inning of a meaningless game in May, then you’re likely going to be disappointed.
Marc is a master of his craft at providing good ole fashioned entertaining sports radio and he comes across over the airwaves as a guy you want to grab a beer and some wings with and chat about the things that matter to you and your community. The other aspect of his game that I believe is very underrated is how he utilizes his supporting cast during the course of his show. Not every radio point guard can keep the pace moving and get everyone involved during the right content discussions yet Marc makes it seem smooth and easy. That has to be especially exciting for younger talent who are looking to learn and build their own identities in this industry because he’s not afraid to give them a shot if they have something to offer. I’m sure being around Dan LeBatard and seeing how he approached his program had to help Marc and to his credit, he’s used that influence and found his own niche and put together a fantastic radio program.
Just yesterday I listened to him and over the span of an hour, I heard Zach Krantz (co-host), Sha Tabb (Producer) and Andy King (PD) all involved and when each was called upon to add something during a segment, they didn’t disappoint. What I enjoyed most was the variety of content choices that the show had to offer. During a full hour I heard a serious conversation about Roger Goodell’s new NFL policy for punishing players who are guilty of domestic abuse and/or sexual assault, a less serious sports conversation on the importance of a fourth pre-season game and whether or not it should be watched and a light hearted and entertaining feature called “Honked Off Like a Goose” which was a lot of fun to listen to.
Overall I think Marc is a very strong radio talent who understands the medium and doesn’t take himself too seriously. He presents himself as someone who’s trying to superserve his audience and those who invest their advertising dollars in his show and as an added bonus, I think his style is a great fit for the Miami sports radio market. I’ve caught his show a number of times over the years and I’ve always been impressed so I wasn’t surprised when Joe Bell hired him to host afternoons at WQAM. I think they made a great choice.
To get a better sense of Marc’s approach and background and to learn a little more about the things he believes are important for a successful radio host/show, I reached out to him with a number of questions. He was gracious enough to provide some very detailed responses and I think you’ll gain some valuable insight from our conversation.
Q: When did you first start listening to sports talk radio and who are some of the broadcasters who have influenced you?
A: I was never a huge fan of sports talk radio when I was growing up in Chicago. I was a fan of talk radio- specifically Steve Dahl, and then Kevin Matthews. They’d delve into sports every now and then, but it was general talk. When I moved to Miami in 1987 I’d listen to Neil Rogers and Phil Hendrie. Phil Hendrie to me is a radio genius. He’s the first guy I ever heard that really “parodied” the whole genre of talk radio. Those that “got it” really understood his genius; those that didn’t “get it” made it funnier for guys like me who did get it. I’ve always kind of tried to take Hendrie’s approach with my show, but not to the extreme he does. I kind of think of my show as a parody of a real sports talk radio show.
Q: Where was your first radio job and what were your responsibilities?
A: My first radio job was in college at the University of Miami radio station. It was an unpaid shift on the college radio station. My shift was Thursday nights 1-4 AM. It was an awesome experience. I also interned at B96 in Chicago during the summer and that was an amazing experience. The station was located in the CBS building in downtown Chicago, and it was a real learning experience as to how a major market radio station runs.
My first paid job in radio was after I graduated college. I was hired to do the 6-Midnight shift at a tiny, tiny, tiny little FM station in Belle Glade, Florida called B93.5. It was a mini-market station-not measured in any market. It was west of West Palm Beach, but you could hear all the West Palm Beach market stations there and you could even hear the Miami market stations there too, so no one was listening to us. It was 1991, and my salary was $165 per week. It almost cost me as much in gas to get there every day as I was earning.
Again though, it was a great experience. I hosted my show, did production, and even helped sell the station. After a few months I was named program director and host of the morning show. I ended up staying there almost 2 years.
Q: You’ve been doing radio in Miami for roughly 10 years now – what makes the sports radio scene in your market fun, unique, exciting and interesting to you?
A: Miami is a really interesting market for sports talk radio. I think we’re able to get away with things in Miami that you’d never be able to get away with in other markets. It’s hard to explain why South Florida is such a unique market, but suffice it to say there’s no way you could break down an offense or a defense for 4 straight hours the way you could in New York, Chicago, or Boston. There are some really unique sports radio voices in Miami, starting with Dan LeBatard, who I unfortunately go up against every afternoon. He’s singlehandedly reshaped sports radio in Miami; he’s made it a whole hell of a lot more fun.
Q: You have had the benefit of working with some great people in this business. Which individual(s) have had the biggest impact on your career?
A: The guy who has influenced me most on air in radio in the last 10 years is Dan LeBatard. He was one of my best friends in college, and when he started doing the daily radio show in Miami he hired me as executive producer. He taught me that it’s ok to laugh at yourself on the air and it’s ok to not take yourself seriously. The biggest lesson that he taught me was that it’s ok to admit to the audience when something-a bit, an interview-isn’t going well on the air. That was a huge eye opener for me. I had always worked in radio with the thought that you never let the audience know if something’s not going well. Dan opened my eyes to the fact that you can’t fool people that way and that it’s ok to let them know that YOU KNOW an interview failed. That was a huge change for me.
Off the air I credit 2 different general managers for inspiring me and believing in me. Dennis Collins ran 790 The Ticket when I was there, and he was instrumental in shaping me as a radio professional. I admired the way he carried himself, and the passion he had for talk radio. It was his guidance that helped me grow as a radio pro. He’s the one that was instrumental in me becoming program director at 790 The Ticket; and that changed my life forever.
Joe Bell is my current general manager at 560 WQAM, and I don’t think I’ve ever worked for someone that has had more of a belief in my abilities as a broadcaster than him. Anyone who has worked in radio probably has a vision of that dream general manager that always seems to support you, always says the right things, and always is willing to do what you need to make your show perfect, and that’s what he’s been for me (although maybe it’s just the honeymoon period since I’ve only been there half a year!).
Q: Having worked for both The Ticket and WQAM, how would you characterize the differences between the two radio stations?
A: The differences between the 2 radio stations are funny to me. I find my current station WQAM to be a throwback to the days of radio before consolidation ruined everything. WQAM is owned by Beasley Broadcasting, which (while a public company) still feels like a family operation. I didn’t think I’d ever experience radio again where you felt like the owner of the company actually knew who you were and actually paid attention to what you were doing. But that’s the feeling I get from WQAM. It’s the heritage sports station in Miami, so it’s definitely an honor for a radio dork like me to work there in afternoon drive. I can appreciate the history of the radio station, and it’s not lost on me some of the great talents that have sat behind that mic before I did.
Q: You and Dan LeBatard are friends who have had great success working together. How does it feel now, going head to head with him in afternoons?
A: LeBatard and I are still friends. Sometimes we even text each other while our shows are on. It is a bit strange to see on social media how great his show is doing nationally. I like to think that I played some small part in forming that show into what it is today. As to going head to head versus him every day, it sucks! But someone has to do it.
Q: On a daily basis you’re creating topics, angles, talking to guests, callers, etc. – what part about doing a radio show excites you the most?
A: I’ve always said this about doing a local radio show—I love it because it’s like the old town square where everyone can gather and talk about the issues of the day. Whether it’s sports, a tragedy, a monumental occasion, or just nonsense, it’s a way for the community to get together and feel as one. It may sound dorky, but that’s the way I envision the show. We’re all South Floridians, and whatever we’re all concerned about that day we’ll talk it out together.
The other thing I love about radio is getting to interact with notable people for 10 minutes. I love interviewing people that are icons in sports or entertainment, and getting that 10 minutes to just talk to them. What other job would have given me the opportunity to talk for a few minutes with Dwyane Wade, Hulk Hogan, Howie Mandel, Al Roker, Donny Osmond, Mike Tyson, and Rick Springfield and hundreds of other notable people? It’s never lost on me that I get to have interactions (albeit briefly) with some of the most famous people in the world. I always find that cool.
Q: To do a 4-hour show, how much preparation time do you invest? Take me thru a day of how that process works from the time you wake up to the time you drive home.
A: Anyone who has done a 4 hour talk show knows that it’s taxing and at the end of the 4 hours you’re spent. I’m not complaining, because I know it’s not a real job, but it is fairly grueling to churn out 20 hours of entertaining talk per week. I feel like I’m always prepping for the show. Anything that happens to me during the day or night is fair game for the radio.
I take my son to school in the morning and get home around 8am; and that’s when I sit down at my desk and really begin preparing for that day’s show. I check all the websites, prep service, audio delivery sites, and create a rough draft of what the show is going to sound like. I have 16 segments to fill every day, and I have an outline by the time I go in each afternoon of what’s going to happen each of those 16 segments. That’s not to say that I don’t audible, because I audible a lot. I may only get to half the items on my prep sheet, but it makes me feel comfortable on the air knowing that it’s all there. My greatest fear is to open that microphone and not have anything to talk about!
The outline process usually lasts from about 8-10am. Then the rest of the day is spent texting/reaching out to potential guests, texting with the other members of my show about ideas, and constantly checking Twitter for topics. My partner Zach and I usually get to the station around 1pm and tape some interviews for the show (I like taping interviews because it gives me a chance to clean them up before they get on the air).
The evening is usually spent watching sports (or House Hunters) and texting the people on my show spitballing ideas and guests for the following day. It’s like Groundhog Day.
Q: When you’re conducting an interview, what is it you’re looking to accomplish with your guest?
A: I love doing interviews because I’m fascinated by celebrity and notable people. I generally ask questions that don’t have much to do with sports. For example, when the Miami Dolphins 1st round draft pick Ja’wuan James came on with us, I would never ask typical sports questions. I’m more interested in if he thinks adults should put rainbow sprinkles on ice cream. I want to know which famous football players texted him congratulations when he was drafted. I want to know if he realizes that since he’s a 1st round draft pick he can request a suite from the Dolphins Stadium for the Jay-Z and Beyonce concert. I want to know what his breakfast cereal of choice is.
My favorite part of interviews is trying to connect with people on a human level in a quick amount of time. Any athlete can tell you “we’re going to take the season one game at a time.” They’re programmed to say that. I want to know the most famous person he has in his iPhone contacts. That’s the stuff that interests me.
Q: As it pertains to fielding phone calls from your audience, why do they matter to you?
A: I know a lot of hosts will tell you that callers slow down a show and that callers rarely bring anything good to the table. I don’t feel that way. I like talking to people; probably because I generally like people. I find anyone interesting, including callers. I like an open forum where people can weigh in on whatever we’re talking about, and know that they’re going to get to say their piece (but there are plenty of shows where I don’t take a single call. It just depends on the tenor of that particular show).
Q: You’re very active on social media which allows the audience to connect with you outside of your program – why do you believe that’s important?
A: I love social media; Twitter specifically. I think it’s super important to use it as a way to build an emotional attachment with your audience. It’s such a great tool to keep conversations going with listeners day and night (It’s also a great tool to give something extra to advertisers. I’m never shy about promoting the businesses I endorse on social media).
Twitter can be harsh though. Look through my timeline and you’ll see plenty of insults- some vicious. I wish that side of it didn’t exist, but the positive parts of social media outweigh the negative aspects of it to me.
Q: How often do you meet with your Program Director, Producer or other staff members to critique the show? How do you measure whether or not you’re making progress?
A: There are essentially 3 other members of the show; my on-air partner Zach Krantz, our producer and third voice Sha Tabb, and the executive producer, which is an open position right now (The executive producer left last week for a job with Telemundo, so our program director Andy King is actually the interim executive producer at the moment). We talk and critique the show every day. I’m highly critical of what we do, so we’re always all talking about things that do or don’t work. I generally feel like things on the show are working if I don’t feeling like curling up into the fetal position when I get home and crying myself to sleep. That happens about 2 days a week.
Q: How important do you believe it is to be out in the community, attending games and spending time meeting and interacting with advertisers?
A: I do think there’s some importance being out in public. I try to attend a lot of sporting events for that reason. I’m always willing to make appearances because you never know when a personal interaction will translate into a new listener. I do think that social media is more important than any of that nowadays though. You can interact with many more people on a personal level through social media than you ever could making appearances.
When it comes to advertisers, I always try and super-serve them. I’m big on weaving advertisers into the fabric of my show. I want listeners to know which businesses are actively supporting what we do; I really do think fans of the show will support those that support us (and generally they do). I probably make some of the account executives nervous with my willingness to forge relationships with advertisers, but I really do believe that’s a huge part of the business (I sold radio advertising for several years when I worked for Infinity so I might be one of those rare air talents that really knows how hard the advertising side is)
Q: If there’s one thing that turns you off about the sports radio industry today, what is it? How can we make it better?
A: The worst part of the sports radio industry to me is the sniping from hosts about each other. I’m fine with the good hearted “competition” stuff where one host talks smack about another on the air. It’s like wrestling. The part that really annoys me is the lack of support most hosts give other radio hosts off the air. Generally you hear about how “that guy doesn’t deserve the money he’s making“. Or “how did that guy get a drive time shift? He’s not as good as I am“. That kind of stuff drives me crazy. It’s ok to root for other hosts to succeed; there’s not a winner and a loser. There’s plenty of room for everyone, and the more people that do succeed, the better it is for the industry.
I always look at NBA coaches; they (for the most part) realize they’re a small fraternity and generally support each other (unless it’s Jason Kidd stealing someone’s job). Sports talk radio hosts rarely seem like they’re supporting each other. It seems like they’re always rooting for others to fail. I try not to do that.
Q: If someone is thinking of pursuing this business, what advice would you give them based on the lessons you’ve learned along the way?
A: Talk radio is the entertainment business, and not much more. It’s like trying to get a great movie or TV role. You have to keep working at it and hope you get your break.
I think the biggest mistake any potential broadcaster makes is not learning the industry. I’m always amazed at how many people who work in radio don’t know what “Inside Radio” or “Talkers Magazine” or “All Access” is. I’m always shocked by people who say they really want to be in radio, but then can’t tell you which station in the market is the flagship station for the MLB franchise. Radio is like any other industry, if you want to be great in banking, you need to learn the entire industry.
I think to be successful in any business, you have to soak up the industry like a sponge. Read the trade magazines. Listen to other hosts and learn what they do right and wrong. Find a particular show and listen to it the way an athlete would watch game film. And, of course, luck and timing play a gigantic role too. It’s not easy to break into the industry with all the on-air consolidation and syndication, but there will always be room for good employees.
Marc Hochman can be heard weekday afternoons from 3p-7p on WQAM. To find out more about the show click here. You can also follow Marc on Twitter by clicking here.
I’m losing a producer this week at 95.7 The Game….and I’m happy about it. You’re immediately thinking “they must have screwed up” or “what the heck is he doing throwing that employee under a bus and running him over“. Actually far from it on both accounts.
I’m excited to lose the individual (Kyle Englehart) because he’s done a good job for us and earned the right to take the next step in his career. He’ll be leaving us to join my good friend Brian Long in San Diego where he’ll become the Executive Producer for Fox Sports XTRA 1360. I see Kyle’s career growth as a reward for the time I invested in him the past two and a half years and it makes me proud because it says that someone else who I respect and trust has the same opinion of his ability to make a bigger difference.
When the situation came about and I was asked if it would be ok to talk to Kyle I didn’t hesitate to say yes because I’m a firm believer in helping people take steps in this industry. It would be different if the move was lateral or backwards or if he was in an on-air position but he’s been working his way up the ladder, doing a great job and trying to find out what he’s capable of. I wouldn’t be doing my job if I wasn’t looking out for his best interests and pushing him to take on bigger challenges.
I bring that situation to light because I want to pose a question to you. If someone on your team/show had a similar opportunity tomorrow and it meant your own situation would be effected, would you do what’s best for them?
I’d like to believe the answer is yes but we both know that’s not always the case. Too often people focus on their own agendas and success and the last thing they want to endure is that scary six letter word – change! Now I do recognize that there are plenty of people who will root for their colleagues to succeed but there’s a big difference between rooting for them to succeed because it benefits you/the station and rooting for them to succeed because it benefits them.
Ironically what some lose sight of is that an individual’s success and departure for a bigger opportunity, paints a picture even more positively of your show and radio station because it tells others in our business that it’s the type of environment where they can learn, grow and win. That’s never bad for business.
Many people enter this industry in their early to mid twenties, not sure of themselves and wondering what goes on inside of a radio station. To most, this is a cool job and to be paid to talk about sports and go to games for free sounds very appealing especially when you’re young and unsure of what awaits you down the line. Most don’t know the difference early on between a producer and Executive Producer or a Reporter and Anchor and let’s face it, dollars are not high so thinking of the job as a potential career can be difficult. That is of course until you discover your passion for it and find out what you’re capable of.
One of the things I’m most proud of during my career is having had the chance to work with many talented people who have gone on to build bigger careers for themselves. Some of them include Chris “Hoss” Neupert (101 ESPN-St. Louis), Ben Boyd (KMOX-St. Louis), John Semar (CBS Sports 920-St. Louis), Amanda Gifford (ESPN Radio), Joe DeCamara (97.5 The Fanatic-Philadelphia) and Jeremiah Crowe (95.7 The Game). The most recent one to join the list is my previously mentioned producer Kyle Englehart.
I list those people because they’ve gone on to become a Program Director, Assistant Program Director or Executive Producer. While each possesses great passion, talent and intelligence for what we do in this industry and have earned the recognition and opportunities they now have, I’d like to think I’ve rubbed off on them along the way and played a small part in helping them take a step forward in their careers.
When I see people who I’ve worked closely with advance to bigger positions in our business it makes me extremely proud because it says that the hard work we’ve put in together has paid off. I feel equally the same about some of the great talent I’ve had the pleasure to coach, develop and challenge along the way in multiple markets. If we get into that list though I may never finish this column and chances are I’ll leave someone out.
As I examine the sports radio industry today, I can’t help but have tremendous respect for programmers like Bruce Gilbert and Scott Masteller and personalities such as Dan Patrick and Mike and Mike. Not only are they good at their own jobs but they help others create bigger situations for others too.
In Dan Patrick’s case, myself, Owen Murphy (KFWB PD-Los Angeles), Rob Dibble (97.9 ESPN-Hartford), Sean Salisbury (Yahoo Sports Radio), Darren Smith (Mighty 1090-San Diego) and many others have benefitted from working with him. His current cast (The Danettes – Todd, Paul, Patrick and Andrew) have been given the ability to escape from the shadows and build their own identities and there’s no doubt that his influence and impact on people has rubbed off. Keep in mind, I’m only talking about the radio side of things. That list grows even higher if you add television into the equation.
In the case of Mike and Mike, I know that Justin Craig (ESPN NY-PD), Pete Gianesini (ESPN Radio PD) and Scott Shapiro (ESPN Radio PD) have all gone from producing the show to becoming very good managers. While they had the ability to earn those spots, I’m sure many of their skills were made stronger by working with Greeny and Golic on a regular basis.
For Scott Masteller, he played a strong role in delivering Colin Cowherd to Bruce Gilbert at ESPN Radio. He also helped Dave Shore (ESPN Los Angeles Operations MGR/On-Air Host), John Lund (95.7 The Game-San Francisco Talent and Former ESPN Dallas PD) and Amanda Gifford (ESPN Radio PD) land bigger career opportunities in addition to helping numerous talents advance their careers on the local and network levels.
Last but not least is Bruce Gilbert who not only helped me develop but also played a role in many other people’s career advancement. Larry Gifford (Former ESPN Radio PD), Dennis Glasgow (Former ESPN 980 PD-Washington DC), Justin Craig (ESPN NY-PD and former ESPN Chicago-PD) and Chadd Scott (1010XL Jacksonville-APD) are just some of the people who have landed bigger opportunities and had the benefit of learning from Bruce. He was also responsible for hiring Colin Cowherd, Doug Gottlieb, Erik Kuselias and Freddie Coleman at ESPN Radio and putting the network’s focus strongly behind Mike and Mike which sent them on their way to becoming a major brand in our industry.
If you look at professional sports the role of an NFL Head Coach is very similar to what programmers do. Our jobs are to coach our people and help them realize their full potential. The path to reach that destination is where the fun and pain is discovered and you can’t avoid it if you want to make a lasting impact.
I look at coaches like Bill Belichick, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh and Marty Schottenheimer and truly appreciate them not only for their win-loss records but for their impact on their people. When you look at how many Assistants became Head Coaches who learned from those strong leaders, the list is rather impressive. In each of their cases, they prepared their people for future success and when opportunity came knocking, they sent them on their way to realize their dreams while finding others to fill their voids.
In my opinion, that’s one of the changed responsibilities for a PD today. It’s not just about coaching shows, delivering ratings and putting out fires inside your building. It’s also about developing the future leaders and stars of our format.
A former boss Scott Carlin once said to me “Who are you developing today that will replace you tomorrow“? When he uttered that question I was very confused because I was a small-market PM drive host who was being asked to add PD duties and this was what I was being asked as I was accepting the position. I responded by letting him know I didn’t understand and how he summarized things made perfect sense. He told me that the mark of a great leader is what you leave behind and when others take notice of your work and you leave us for greener pastures, who will be next in line to add to what you’ve built?
Instantly I knew that it was not only my job to run the station and host a good show but to also make sure I grew my staff and prepared them for future success. I still remember that line to this day and I approach my position with that belief. My current APD Jeremiah Crowe has been trained to become a PD and he will be one in the future. To know I’ve prepared him for the challenge is fulfilling and he knows, when that day comes, it’s his job to have someone ready to occupy his chair and make sure we don’t lose ground. If he hasn’t done that then he’s missed his opportunity to leave his own imprint.
I’ll end on this note. You can be remembered in this business for many things. For me, I try to focus on making people better, helping them advance their careers and delivering ratings for my employer. It’s up to you to decide how you want to use your influence to benefit your peers and carve your place in the industry. Choose wisely.
Back in 2005 while I was working for ESPN Radio, I listened to my former boss Bruce Gilbert conduct a staff meeting and talk to the staff about the importance of having a strong work-life balance. I specifically recall one producer talking about how he’d put in an 8-9 hour day and then shut down. He’d turn off his phone, not check email and if it had to do with work, he’d wait until the next day to handle it.
I was 31 at this time and viewed the opportunity at ESPN as “my shot” so to hear someone talk about enjoying time off and relaxing when I was grinding away 7 days a week was insane. I thought to myself at that time “how the heck can he afford to work like that and tell every manager in the building that he operates that way when everyone in the room is gunning for their chance to break through and ascend to where he is“.
It seemed insane at the time and was one of the rare times when I wasn’t sure I agreed with Bruce or that particular producer but now sitting here 10 years later, I realize why having that separation for some people is critical. I’m heading back to work today following a 2-week vacation and while my time away isn’t fully 100% spent away from the job, I’ve learned over the years how important it is to mentally break away for a bit. As intense as the job can be for a radio station programmer, if you don’t allow some form of mental relaxation into your world, it will ultimately come back to bite you later on.
This is coming from someone who used to pride himself on putting in a 16 hour day and setting the example for his crew of what hard work looked like. I’d listen to my favorite NFL Head Coach Bill Parcells and MLB HOF Manager Tony LaRussa talk about how intensely they coached their teams and how much time they put into their professions that I assumed that to reach that level of success, this was how it had to be done.
What I didn’t take into account was how many times they could be ineffective, worn out, sleeping or just passing time in the building. I also didn’t think about the other approaches that other coaches took which were different in structure yet led to the same results.
As the years have passed, I’ve discovered that it’s more critical to maximize the time you spend in your place of employment and use your time away to clear your mind so you can be fresh and productive. These days I’m more likely to log 10-12 hours at work and do a few extra hours at home just so I can balance out the day and my environment.
If the task at hand requires a 16-18 hour day I’ve still got it in me to go get it done but luckily I’ve hired some great people and have gained enough confidence in them that I know that the job will get done even if I’m not physically standing in the room.
As you’re coming up the ranks in this industry, it’s inevitable to feel like you have to invest every minute of time in your life in the job. Let’s face it, this is a competitive environment and if you want to stand out and succeed at it, you better be head and shoulders above the others who do the same job. On the other hand, not every individual is wired the same.
For some, they need to be buried in the job 7 days per week. For others, they need to clear their minds and get mentally fresh for the next day. It’s not about who punches the clock and logs more hours, it’s about who utilizes their time the best, accomplishes the most and makes others around them better. While those who’ve worked for me will tell you I’m demanding and have high expectations, I’m a big believer that you do what’s necessary for yourself to be effective and get the job done.
I’m no expert on mentally disconnecting but I have worked at it and I find that as I’ve taken on bigger challenges in my professional life that it’s necessary for me to wipe the slate clean 2-3 x per year. I’ve also started to value and appreciate the time with my family much more as I’ve grown older whereas when I was in my twenties and early thirties I was so focused on my career that I got sucked into a bubble where the only thing that was important was being successful. I felt at that time that I’d lose out on opportunities if I didn’t out work everyone in my building, let alone anywhere else and while that mentality was beneficial to me in moving up the ladder (still is to some degree) I’ve also found that if I didn’t adjust and allow for some peace of mind a few times per year that I’d likely have burnt out by now.
Ironically I was reading Phil Jackson’s book “Eleven Rings” where he talks about the need in his life for meditation and how he’d have his players with the Bulls and Lakers sit in silence in the locker room before games to help them with freeing their minds and while I used to think the “zen master” got off on being viewed as a bizarre individual, I can now see the value of the approach. Creating an environment where a performer is able to get their mind right, prior to taking on the task at hand is often necessary for success.
The point of this column isn’t to direct you to utilize more vacation time or reinforce that you should be grinding harder to be successful, it’s to make you examine whether or not you have enough of a blend between who you are as a professional and who you are as an individual. Yes this job is exciting and a lot of fun and for many of us, we’re fortunate that we get paid to pursue our passions but it is still work at the end of the day.
For a programmer or personality that may seem impossible given that every piece of feedback on the radio station ends up in your email, text, facebook and twitter accounts but believe it or not, the building will still be there when you return from your break. When you’re confident in what you do and your results demonstrate that you’re effective at your position, you no longer need to worry about who will be sitting in your chair when you get back. Even if someone is in it, if you’re talented enough, someone else will want you occupying one of their chairs.
I’ve often loved to use the quote “Graveyards are full of indispensable men” because it’s very true. All we can control is the effort given and the results we create and if we hold up our end of the bargain, the rest takes care of itself. To feel like you can’t clear your mind or it’ll result in sending a bad message or leading to a change, means you either don’t work for a great employer, haven’t delivered on what was expected or you haven’t done a strong enough job in delegating and putting people in position to have success while you’re away. I was guilty of not delegating well earlier in my career but luckily I’ve gotten better at it.
Spending time with loved ones, reading, discovering hobbies and investing your personal time in things that help you grow as an individual is just as important as spending your time doing that one extra task as crazy as that may sound. Maybe the corporate execs won’t want to hear that but I’d rather have an energized and focused individual running through a wall for me to get the job done as opposed to a tired and mentally distracted employee who thinks that by occupying space they’ve fulfilled their obligation to the radio station.
Remember, sports is what we talk about and for many of us it’s something we love watching, discussing and learning more of and while I understand it’s a large part of what we do, it’s also not the only thing we’re defined by. At least not by those who are close to us and looking for a way to be more involved in our lives and successes.
The job is important and for many of us, the thrill of performing and the ability to beat the competition fuels us. But you’ll be amazed at how much stronger, sharper and energized you’ll be with a little mental escape every now and then.
Go figure, it only took me ten years to discover that what Bruce Gilbert was teaching in 2005 had some merit after all 🙂
One of the real joys in this industry for yours truly is when I stumble upon a personality who I believe has something to offer but hasn’t yet put it all together. Helping someone grow is a rewarding part of the job and I saw that possibility a little more than 3 years ago when I first became familiar with my featured guest this week, Zach McCrite.
I was looking for a host to team up with Bryan Burwell when Rick Scott and I were having one of our weekly conversations and he asked me “do you know anything about a guy named Zach McCrite”? I asked “who the heck is that“? He mentioned that he was some guy out of Louisville on the STAA Talent website who sounded ok but he didn’t know much about.
I followed up by logging on to the website to listen to his material and I liked a lot of what I heard. He sounded fun, likable, happy to be doing his job and a guy who would be easy for an audience to relate to and connect with. He also had a very unique country-like sound that was soothing to the ear. I had no idea how deep his knowledge base was or if he could thrive in a bigger situation but when someone stands out, you investigate.
I then streamed a few of his shows in Kentucky where he was working with a co-host on a heavy college basketball program and when I listened to the pairing it just didn’t excite me the same as the solo work did. I figured though that if one sample size was strong and the other wasn’t that it was at least worth a look.
I then brought Zach into town for a 2-day audition with Bryan and overall he did well. His personality stood out and you could tell there was a good energy and vibe in the room. The competition for the opening was strong and I had 3 legitimate contenders for the spot and when I made the final decision, Zach didn’t get the nod. I felt at that time that Zach didn’t have enough confidence in himself and he was still rough around the edges and lacking experience and with the current show not performing up to par with the rest of the radio station, I needed someone to take the reigns who had been through the wars before.
The person who got the call was Bob Stelton and while I was excited to add him, I also felt bad to have to give Zach the bad news. I reminded him when we talked to not give up and keep working because he was someone I felt had the talent to break through and he had now earned a spot on the future’s list. While that might not have been what he wanted to hear at the time, I meant what I said. I was impressed but the timing wasn’t right.
Well about a year later, Bob had kicked ass for us and lifted the radio station’s ratings and earned the attention of his hometown (Seattle) station who wanted to hire him to host their midday show with Dave Grosby. That put pressure on yours truly to create a new show that could capitalize on the momentum that had been gained the previous 12 months.
I had a high opinion of former NFL Coach Rick Venturi who was working for me as an NFL Analyst and who I thought could evolve into a weekday talk show host but what I needed was a younger voice to drive the show. I knew I wanted someone who was less analytical, self-deprecating, informed but not looking to be the smartest guy in the room and a personality who could have fun with Rick and respect his position but also establish themselves as well.
While going through the process I kept coming back to Zach. I felt with Venturi’s experience and depth and Zach’s personality and ability to balance out the serious stuff, we could have a pretty strong team. I listened a few more times to Zach to see how he was sounding and his personality was still off the charts but his content selection wasn’t strong and his formatics and confidence in driving a show were still under par.
I figured he was doing everything on his own with limited feedback and as I investigated his background by talking to one of my former colleagues from ESPN Radio Bob Valvano and Louisville Courier Sports Columnist Rick Bozich I kept hearing how much people enjoyed being around him. His peers pointed out how every good or bad decision made on the show was due to Zach’s judgments because there wasn’t any support from up above and I felt that if he had some direction and was willing to accept coaching, he could do a damn good job.
I then drove to Louisville and spent 5 hours with Zach inside of a restaurant where I peppered him with questions and tried to provide a realistic picture of what he would be facing if he were to move to St. Louis. I even popped a 20-question quiz on St. Louis sports on him that I knew would rattle him and result in a failing grade. I did it because I wanted to see how he’d handle things when he wasn’t sure. I remember him telling me that day “I will work really hard to be the best I can be and make sure the radio station is rewarded for having faith in me and in the meantime I will fake it until I make it“.
I then gave Zach an offer and told him to go home and discuss it with his family and let me know his decision the next morning. We then met up for breakfast and he let me know he was ready to move forward and I signed him to a contract to join 101 ESPN in St. Louis at one of the weirdest places I’d ever done a deal – IHOP!
Once Zach came to St. Louis he fit right in. He’s very easy going (his nickname is “EZ”) and approachable and he did a really smart thing by going out a lot in the city and embracing all that St. Louis had to offer. Rather than try to make the market adjust to him, he adjusted to the market. Because of his approach, a number of media personalities responded well to him and I’m sure the association with Rick Venturi didn’t hurt either.
What impressed me about Zach was how eager he was to improve and how sincere he was about learning how to be a better talent. His good natured sense of humor and love for sports connected well with the audience and because he and Coach Venturi worked hard at developing their chemistry, we had continued success in middays following the excellent run turned in by Bob Stelton. He was also excellent at using social media and his daily whiteboard sayings always generated response and kept people laughing.
While I only spent a little more than 3 months working with Zach before accepting a position in SF, we have kept in touch to this day and I consider him a friend and someone who I think has a ton of potential to do great things in this business. He’s currently in a great position working alongside former NFL Player Tony Casillas for 107.7 The Franchise in Oklahoma City and he seems genuinely happy and in a great place professionally.
The radio station he where he works has done a really good job in serving it’s local audience and Zach has once again embraced his new surroundings and found a way to fit in and connect with a whole new audience. He’s also done a great job blending with Tony Casillas and their partnership gives the station a strong pairing capable of having strong long-term success.
I reached out to Zach to have him provide some color on his radio career and explain some of the things he believes are important in creating great radio and I think you’ll enjoy the details of our conversation!
Q: When did you first become interested in sports radio? Who were some of the people you listened to who peaked your interest?
A: I was interested in sports radio for as long as I can remember. 10, 11, 12 years old probably. Except I wanted to be in play-by-play (and still have a dream of doing something on a play-by-play broadcast on a high level at some point. If not play-by-play, hopefully sidelines). Back then, it was Bob Costas and Marv Albert. Growing up in Indiana, Hoosiers play-by-play man Don Fischer was a must as well. In sports talk, my hometown had the old “One On One Sports.” I was a huge fan of Arnie Spanier and Papa Joe Chevalier. I listened constantly.
Q: Where was your first job and what were your responsibilities?
A: I was 14 and I begged the local sports station to let me intern during their high school sports broadcasts. I did the stats and then started setting up and breaking down the broadcasts after games. Then, the station gave me a job as a board op during their drive time hours when I could get a work permit. Looking back, I was an ant in the sports radio world but at the time I thought I had the coolest job on earth!
Q: You spent roughly 6 years in Kentucky doing sports talk radio. What were some of the lessons you learned that prepared you for where you are today?
A: That you are the ONLY person responsible for your success. Sports radio was in it’s infancy in the Louisville market when I arrived and landed a job in 2005. And I was a one-man show. Literally. Bigger companies started employing two-man shows on bigger sticks. I never had a real coach in Louisville and I was just doing what I thought was listenable. I promised myself that no matter what, my show would be different. It was the only advantage I had and I was proud of it.
Q: After Kentucky, you landed your first job in a top 20 market with 101 ESPN in St. Louis. How did that opportunity come about?
A: Wow, funny that Jason Barrett would be asking that question. You were the PD at 101 ESPN at the time and found me like a needle in a haystack. I got asked to come to St. Louis for an on-air tryout and didn’t get the job. You told me “We went in a different direction but out of all the people we brought in, you were my next choice.” I remember thinking “yeah right, you probably told all of the candidates that they were your next choice” but sure enough, when the next opening came, I got the call after you came to Louisville to vet me one last time, while slamming a bunch of pancakes at an IHOP!
Q: How difficult was it going from a small market with limited expectations to a larger market where ratings success was demanded and expected?
A: It scared the living daylight out of me. I remember having a dream after my first day on the air that the ratings came in and our new show had come in 17th place! But frankly, I’m glad it happened that way. I remember all of those 4am wake-up calls thinking “I’m going to prove all of my old naysayers in the biz wrong.” I had my share of those and still do. They fueled me then and they fuel me now.
Q: Your first stint at the station saw you team up with former NFL Coach Rick Venturi. What was the best and most challenging part of running point on that show?
A: The best part was really learning about football. Us talking heads that don’t have an extensive football playing or coaching career to our name still open up a mic and think we know football. It was then that I realized I really didn’t know football at all! I enjoyed talking about the social aspects of football (and other sports) but I didn’t really know a thing about the Xs and Os until I teamed up with him. And he enjoyed teaching me.
The most challenging part was trying to debate him on his views! I felt like he thought I was silly for questioning him (which I probably was). The guy has been around. I’m grateful that he was my first co-host in St. Louis. I think we learned a lot from each other and he’s still a great friend today.
Q: When Coach Venturi left, you then teamed up with another strong St. Louis personality, Bob Ramsey. How would you describe that situation?
A: Rammer was fun. So opinionated and a great sense of humor. We could debate! That was one of the biggest advantages. The biggest frustration was that we just didn’t have enough time together. Rammer had been a part of a great afternoon drive team before he got put with me. Being pulled from afternoon drive and swallowing your pride and hanging out with “the morning guy” can be a tough transition. We were getting there I thought but just not enough time.
Q: You experienced the hard part of the business when you were let go by 101 ESPN in November 2013. What did you learn from that experience?
A: It taught me to be ready for anything. I was certainly caught off guard by it. I thought things were great but I had never been fired before. This was the business. If the company thinks they can do better, they’ve got to do it. I now work under the assumption that today may be my last day on air. If you say that to yourself right before your show begins each day and again before your last segment, you find yourself feeling more proud about how that show went that day.
Q: That led to you moving to Oklahoma City where you’re now in PM drive working for 107.7 The Franchise with former NFL player Tony Casillas. How did that situation materialize and how would you describe it so far?
A: I got fired at 11:15am on a Friday and I had a call from Rick Scott by 1pm that same day. He was consulting for a brand new station out of Oklahoma City that was looking to take on the longstanding Sports Animal. By the end of the day, my resume was in the PD’s hands there (oh yeah, another thing I learned: always have your updated resumé ready to go). The PD listened to my material and we chatted multiple times on the phone about philosophies. I then visited OKC a few times both with and without my wife just to get a feel of the city and my potential new co-host and then made the move.
Working with Tony is a lot like working with Rick Venturi. Tons of football knowledge and fun to hang out with. Now, the trick is trying to get him to buy in to some of the “radio” things that he’s new to. This is his first full time radio gig and it’s a work in progress but we’re making a dent! I love the climb!
Q: Why do you think that type of combination (broadcaster and former athlete) is so popular today in sports talk radio?
A: I think it’s popular because it’s the conversation many listeners want to have. They want to have the discussion with the former athlete that I’m having. So I speak for them. The “broadcaster” is really just Joe Fan so I come at it from that angle on air. The former athlete comes from a completely different vantage point. The broadcaster’s main job, in my opinion, is to let the former athlete shine while trying to get them to understand where us nitwit fans are coming from. It’s a great dynamic.
Q: To those who aren’t familiar with the Oklahoma City sports scene, how would you describe it? What is the biggest misconception of the market?
A: Oklahoma City is obviously a football-first market. Oklahoma and Oklahoma State rule. I don’t think that’s a surprise to many. But I think the biggest misconception is that football is all OKC is. That’s certainly not the case. I’m sure it used to be Football was ranked #1 and the Thunder (and Kevin Durant) were ranked a distant 2nd. Not anymore. Case in point, right now. It’s two weeks from the start of the college football season and Kevin Durant is leading our radio shows a lot. The Team USA departure and his current endorsement battle between Nike and Under Armour is at the top of the headlines. If it wasn’t for off-the-field issues with multiple OU players, Durant would be an even greater portion of our show each day.
Q: What’s your approach to preparing each day for a 4-hour talk show?
A: I know this sounds kind of uppity but you’re kind of always preparing. Almost every time I have an opinion about something I see in sports or in my life, I’m either writing it down or tweeting it out. Either way, I have record of it and then I can start to expound on those points when I’m at my desk and ready to write. I’ve got a nice “shell” of the show put together the night before. Then it’s just letting the next day’s news start to filter in and collarborating with my co-host and producer on what things they are hot on as the day goes on.
Q: When it comes to improving the show, how often do you guys meet to review the show’s strengths and weaknesses? Who’s involved in the feedback process?
A: We’re always in constant contact informally with our PD and APD. But then we’ll all get together usually about once a month. PD, APD, producer, me and my co-host, and sometimes a consultant.
Q: As an on-air talent, how important is it for you to be coached regularly?
A: I like being told regularly how to get better. When I see other people get asked this question, I always wonder why their answer isn’t closer to mine. Wouldn’t you want to be told how to improve? Yes I know you don’t want to suffer from paralysis from overanalysis. I don’t either. But I’d rather know how to make myself better (and make my boss happy) then to steer clear of bosses as much as possible and then get let go down the road.
Q: To help you become a better broadcaster, who are some of the people who have helped you along the way and what did they do to make you better?
A: You see, this is JB looking for a pat on the back! Nah, I’m kidding about that. But you have probably been my biggest influence. When you offered me a job in St. Louis, I literally had never been trained on how to do a radio show. NEVER. So your voice is constantly in my head with reminders of the fundamentals I need to keep sharp.
My parents were also a huge influence. My mom used to call me a “starving artist” and in some ways, I’ll probably always be but they were always there when I was living paycheck to paycheck and needed a home-cooked meal. They sometimes threw in an extra tank of gas too. And my mom and dad have their own successful highway construction business and not once would they tell me not to go after my radio dreams.
Kent Sterling and Hoss Neupert were both PDs in St. Louis that taught me a ton too. Kent drove home the point to go with what gets you excited. “Entertain and enlighten” was his thing. Hoss always, always, always had either an angle on a topic or an angle on the construct of the show that I hadn’t thought of yet.
Rick Scott has also been a huge influence. He’s great at explaining and improving the dynamic of a two-man show in a way that is relatable and is so good at the ins and outs of how to get the most out of the ratings.
All of these people, more than anything, saw something in me that, at times, I hadn’t seen in myself. They all believed in me and for that I am truly grateful.
All of my different types of co-hosts have also taught me how to adapt to different styles and still try to stay true to me. All a gift.
Q: If someone is thinking of entering this industry and asked for your advice on what to do and what to avoid, what would you say to them?A: I’m sure you’ve all heard this before, but for crying out loud, if you haven’t interned yet…. GO! Do it now! Like, leave this page and just go.
If you’re trying to take the next step in the industry, I would say call a PD and see if he’ll just critique a quick tape of you. Don’t ask for a job (at least not yet), just introduce yourself and see if they’ll help. That way, they’re under no pressure to hire you and now they’ve got your name. And if they’re not hiring, maybe they know someone that is!
If you can help it (and sometimes you can’t), avoid a place that doesn’t actually have a boss that coaches you to do your job better. I can attest and I know others can too, that some places just leave you to your own devices, which can feel freeing but can also lead to getting better at a slower rate.
Zach McCrite can be heard weekday afternoons on 107.7 The Franchise in Oklahoma City. To learn more about the show, check out their show page by clicking here. You can also follow Zach on Twitter by clicking here.
I’m a fan of a variety of music and one group who’s style I’ve grown fond of the past 7-8 years is the heavy metal band Avenged Sevenfold. Initially the band’s earlier songs lacked flow from start to finish. They’d feature some excellent riffs, lyrics and instrumental parts but when the songs were completed they felt like they were missing something. I could tell the band’s talent was there but they hadn’t figured out how to put it all together.
As the years passed, I’ve noticed how the group has matured and become more focused and serious about the song writing process. Their songs now sound well organized and have a much stronger flow and the lyrics and melodies have become much stronger. Coincidentally they’re selling more records now than they ever have before.
Now you’re probably thinking “what the heck does that have to do with sports talk radio” and actually there’s a specific reason why I’m bringing it up. Make sure to read the question and answer exchange at top of the article. In it you’ll notice some of the feedback from Guitarist Zacky Vengeance who talked to Revolver Magazine about the involvement of a producer in the band’s music making process.
This is important because it’s no different than what occurs in radio. In this case, the “talent” went in with a closed mind and initially rejected the idea of coaching and constructive criticism, only to discover later that when they embraced it, they made better music. When people collaborate and keep an open mind to the content creation process, more times than not the result is better than when one tries to go it alone.
I’m not pointing this out so you’ll enter your building tomorrow and give your producer a big hug and tell them you’ll listen to them in the future. Doing that and changing your approach isn’t going to unlock some magical formula that is going to assure you of having a kick ass show that dominates in the ratings.
Instead I’m bringing it up to illustrate the value in having a strong producer involved in the daily process. In many cases, this individual is another supporter and believer in your abilities and they’re willing to be honest, candid and helpful to seeing you reach your full potential as a personality.
One thing that always stands out to me is how similar the responses are when I talk to different talent about how they measure their growth or improvement. Most will say stuff like “we chat as a show about what we thought worked and that determines if we’re making progress or not“, “the ratings tell us if what we’re doing is working” and my personal favorite “you can feel when it’s good or when it isn’t“.
While there’s some validity to those responses, how can anyone truly show performance improvement if these are the ways talent go through the improvement and coaching process? If I asked you as a host to show me a clear difference of something you’ve worked on and improved upon over the past 90 days could you do it? Maybe some could but I guarantee most couldn’t.
Call me old fashioned but I still believe there is an art to creating great radio and it starts with preparation, shared vision and a game plan to track success. If those things aren’t in place or don’t matter and regular feedback isn’t provided, then how can you tell if you’re any better or different than from when you first spoke to an audience on a microphone? Aside from a possible voice change or different PD opinion, you’re going to be hard pressed to prove you’ve grown as a broadcaster.
Think for a second about professional sports and how it relates to this situation. I’ll use Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw as my examples since they’re both at the top of their games. Each spends a few hours watching video to study their own performances as well as their opponents tendencies and they’ll seek out further opinion from their managers, coaches and fellow teammates in order to make sure they’re set up to have success. Why do they do it? To get better and help their teams win.
These guys spend 9-10 hours per day at their jobs, they travel constantly and juggle media, fans and sponsor requests plus find time to sleep, spend time with their families, work out and do some things to take their mind off the game. Still they find time to evaluate their work and the competition. Oh and they do this while making millions! They’ve got plenty of excuses to be lazy but they don’t use them because they’re focused on always getting better.
Sports isn’t the only industry that’s relatable. Let’s use an example from the movie business. Leonardo DiCaprio makes millions to shoot a movie and I’m sure some directors would probably just let him walk into a room and say “do whatever you want and we’ll film it and make it great” but instead a guy like DiCaprio seeks out top notch directors like Martin Scorsese who are going to challenge him and cast him in roles that help him be his very best. There’s obviously a respect and trust between director and actor and due to that connection, the product on the screen is usually strong and movie fanatics show their appreciation by filling up theatres to watch their work.
Most radio talent have more time available, less distractions and a lot less money than a professional athlete or film star yet most don’t make time to assess how they’re performing, what they’re going to do to get better going forward and how they’re going to measure it. Some personalities never listen back to their work or embrace hearing what’s less than stellar on the show and it baffles me because if you’re not willing to hear honesty from those who care and appreciate your talents then how do you expect to grow?
This is why I chose today to focus on the producer-talent relationship. If a show truly wants to grow and find its groove, it starts with those two individuals and then it extends to the Program Director. No full-time show tandem spends more time together than Host-Producer so if that combination isn’t clicking, the rest of the product can be in big trouble.
Those who have worked for me have heard me use this following example. Inside any radio station, I see the Program Director as the Head Coach, the Producer as the Offensive Coordinator and the On-Air talent as the Quarterback. We must all to agree on what style of offense we’re going to play before we hit the field but once we’re out there, we need to trust our training, work together on the game plan and respect, understand and utilize what each other does so we can have individual and team success.
If you’re a producer and you think you’re going to instruct your talent to “do as they’re told“, good luck getting anything done. They’re the star the audience is paying to see and you need to respect that, appreciate it and remember it. You can put things down on paper and beat someone up for every small detail that gets missed but if you don’t enjoy the wins and remind your on-air talent of when they do something outstanding, you’ll never get the full support you’re seeking.
Some producers think that doing a talk show is easy and formatics should never be missed but that’s not realistic. That’s like expecting Peyton Manning to never throw an interception. Clearly he has the talent to make every throw on the field and his intention isn’t to make a mistake but people are human and they screw up sometimes.
I remember meeting once in St. Louis with a group of producers and when I raised the question of why we weren’t supplying our talent with more information to further support their opinions on the air, I was told that it required a lot more work and the talk show hosts were paid a lot to know to sports so they should know it all.
I then asked the group “can you remember the 5-6 bullet points to one of your topics from earlier today“? After being told they could, I took a group of producers down the hall to a production studio, turned on a microphone and had them each try to do a 10-minute segment recalling what they thought they remembered from earlier that day. Not one lasted 2 minutes.
The purpose of the exercise wasn’t to demonstrate that they couldn’t host a show like a personality could, it was to make them aware of just how tough it is to remember everything inside your head. When you have the benefit of information in front of you on paper or on a screen and when you know you have someone in your corner who’s trying to give you details to help you along, you’re going to be more likely to place your faith in them. If the producer maintained the initial mindset that existed when we first entered that meeting, the talent would have lost respect, trust and interest in working with him in the future.
What people off the air sometimes lose sight of is that doing a 3-4 hour radio show 5 days per week and being entertaining, compelling and interesting to an audience is very hard! Even the best in the business have off-days and off-segments. The challenge is getting your people past those bumps in the road and not letting it become a consistent issue.
On the other hand, if you’re a talent, you need to be cognizant of the fact that your shit does stink some time and the one who’s going to tell you, is the person who’s in your corner the most, your producer. If you really care about being great, then you have to be open minded to feedback and criticism. It comes with the territory. If Peyton Manning can face millions of people after an off-day in the Super Bowl, then you should be able to handle some dialogue with your producer.
Most producer’s have good intentions and want to earn the trust and respect of their hosts. If they’re being hard on a host for breaking late, blowing off a tease or asking bad questions during an interview, they’re doing it because they know the host can do better and they want to help that person reach their full potential. They take pride in the show just like the host does and they want to see their hard work pay off in the eyes of the audience, their peers and their bosses.
One misconception I’ve seen and heard too many times in multiple markets from a number of hosts is what they believe a producer’s job is. Many think the job is to book 2-3 guests, print a few stories off the internet, answer the phones, grab coffee and stay out of the way. That is not a producer. That is called a “yes man”. You can break it into other parts too such as “booker”, “information gatherer”, “call screener”, “runner”, etc.
A producer is going to work with you to “produce” content and shape the vision for the show and do everything in their power to see that the vision becomes a reality. They’re not there to sit back and wonder where the show is going or why it’s going there. Having a plan and an agreed upon destination that both people are aware of shouldn’t require pulling teeth.
If someone is working on a show with you and they’re not challenging you on where things are going or asking to be more involved with the layout then that’s when you should be concerned as a host. Anyone who cares about the program and helping you deliver a great product is going to want to work with you on the show’s creation. They’re also going to look for ways to add to the presentation while the show is in progress because having an idea of what’s going to take place fosters more creativity.
For those who produce shows, think of the way you approach your show each day and ask yourself “what’s the one thing I’ve worked on with my host in the past 30-60 days to make them better“? If you can’t identify it, then it’s something you’re going to want to work on.
Maybe you’re waiting for the feedback to come from the mouth or email of your PD but if you want the respect of your talent, then you can lead the charge too when you hear an opportunity for something to improve. If the only time you speak up to offer advice is when the PD is present, how do you expect the host to trust your evaluation of their work?
If you’ve thought about the areas where your personality can improve but haven’t been able to come up with a plan for how to make it better that’s ok. In that case, talk to your PD and let them know what you think could be tighter on the show and give some examples to support your beliefs. Trust me, they’ll appreciate it and then work with you to come up with a strategy for how to measure improvement.
I’ll wrap this piece up with this, if your future earning potential and length of stay at your current place of work was measured on your ratings growth or being able to demonstrate improvement in what you’re doing, what would you put your faith in? One system is flawed and out of your control, the other is in your hands and only takes your commitment, creating a detailed plan and holding yourself accountable.
If you produce a show, listen to it closer and think of the places inside of it where you can help. If you’re on the air, think of the advantage you have by having a trusted colleague working next to you to help you create a great show. In some markets, personalities are producing their own shows and I know a few who have also had to host while producing and running their own board. That’s not fun but neither is the flip side, paying for great support, only to have the host not value it or utilize it.
Here’s a challenge for you. Host/Producer, identify one thing you both agree could be better on the show and spend the next 30 days trying to make it better. Whether it’s your teases going to break, resetting the show during segments, improving the pace of the show, shortening your interviews or diving into content faster at the start of segments. There are a ton of other possibilities too but that gives you some things to get started.
Pull some audio to show how it sounds when it works or fails and come up with a game plan for what you’re going to do differently to make it better. Step back in 30 days to see where you’re at and continue the dialogue with one another to keep finding ways to make the show feel better and more fulfilling.
Let’s be honest, you wouldn’t be in your position if you didn’t have ability to do the job. However, a lot of people have talent and those who push themselves to continue improving go further. Great ones like Peyton Manning, Michael Jordan and Derek Jeter didn’t need to be told to accept coaching, work with their teammates or find ways to measure and improve their performances regularly, they did it because they wanted to be the best at what they did.
If they could do it then there’s no reason you can’t. Measuring your improvement isn’t difficult and it’s not a bad place to start when showing your bosses why you’re worth a larger investment down the road. Then again, if you don’t want to go that way, you can always put your fate in the hands of the Nielsen gods. Please be sure to let me know how that turns out for you.
The past few days I’ve had the benefit of enjoying some time off and during that time I couldn’t help but be drawn more to CNN, Fox News and MSNBC as a result of the situation in Ferguson, MO. Having spent 5 years of my career and life in the St. Louis area and still maintaining friends in the area today, I was curious to find out what was going on with the chaotic situation that has been unfolding for more than a week now.
What started as a curiosity on my part to learn more about the story, ended up becoming a reminder of how important it is to handle breaking news coverage the right way. Some of this may seem obvious but as simple as it may appear, not every individual or brand handles things right when it comes to dealing with major stories that require an ability to think and react quickly and wisely.
Case in point this past weekend’s news television programming. I think most would agree that the Ferguson, MO shooting and situation between the police, protesters and looters qualified as a major breaking news story. If you work in news television then it would qualify as an all hands on deck type of situation. What occurred though was perplexing.
On the positive side, 1120AM KMOX in St. Louis was on top of the story every single minute. The station went wall to wall with on-air coverage and I saw numerous people involved with the radio station tweeting, posting photos and continuing dialogue with listeners. I could tell quickly that the brand was connected with its audience and invested in making sure they had the most up to the minute information on the story.
Dana Loesch who hosts her own syndicated radio show and works for “The Blaze” network, was also highly invested in the story and offering different viewpoints on the situation. She too was dialed in with her audience on Twitter and was supplying audio samples of things that she had gathered on the show to further help with gaining perspective.
KMOX and Dana Loesch are both St. Louis based so they had an opportunity to be closer to the situation and to their credit they took advantage of it and went full throttle on the story. In simpler terms, they played the hits and super served the needs of their audiences.
On the local television side in St. Louis, Fox-2 KTVU and News 4-KMOV did a stellar job covering the scene to provide eyewitness footage of what was taking place and they kept their focus on presenting the facts which is difficult in situations like this. So many outlets are battling for information and want to provide it to the viewer as quickly as possible so what impressed me with both stations was how they kept their standards high and just reported what they knew rather than try to become the story.
On the flip side, KSDK-4 in St. Louis dropped the ball big time. Rather than stick to reporting the news, the station became the news after they elected to sensationalize the story and show footage of the police officer’s home which had his address on the house. This caused an uproar from local viewers and led to the creation of a “Boycott KSDK” facebook page which as of last check had over 29,000 likes. Many of those people also planned to boycott outside the TV station to voice their unhappiness with the station’s lack of judgement.
The station to its credit came out and apologized after for their egregious error but the damage had been done. Poor judgement during a pivotal time cost the station its trust and loyalty from the audience and a whole lot of bad PR. One could make the case that their quest for higher ratings on this day, could cost them a lot more in the future.
Spinning it to the national side, Fox News almost always wins in the ratings because for the most part they do a good job. That top notch programming though wasn’t on display this weekend however. Instead I tuned in on 5 different occasions for coverage of the Ferguson story only to find the network showing taped programming or a quick news update. On one occasion they even presented a live show and focused content on Rick Perry’s issues in Texas rather than the Ferguson situation. That was very surprising and disappointing for a channel which is usually the first choice for news programming.
MSNBC meanwhile was slightly better than Fox News but they too were missing in action on the lead story too often. In a few instances I once again stumbled across taped programming rather than live coverage of the biggest news story in the country.
The one national network that owned the story was CNN. Anytime I put the channel on, they were focused on the story. While some of the coverage became tiresome due to repetition, they kept the focus on what mattered to most people and I felt after 3 days that if I wanted to know anything about the story from a national perspective that I could trust CNN for their commitment to it.
When stories like this unfold I think it’s extremely important to be all-in with your coverage. I can handle a listener complaining that we spent too much time on a major news story a lot better than having to explain why we were absent on it. Listeners and viewers turn to us hoping to receive information when things like this occur and if we’re not fully invested in the content that everyone is talking about, then we not only lose the audience today but we lose them in the future too when the next big event happens.
I also think it’s critical when these types of stories come up to be very smart and factual when reporting information. When I see a channel like KSDK make an error and show a police officer’s address on live television during a time when tensions are high, I can’t help but wonder which manager made the call and what repercussions they’ll have to deal with for making such a bad judgement. The last thing you want to do in a situation like this is become the story and KSDK became that for a day when they made one really bad decision.
It reminded me of a situation I went through in St. Louis back in 2007. I was programming 590 The Fan in St. Louis the day the Mitchell Report was released. A ton of baseball players had been found guilty of using PED’s and rumors began to swirl that when the list was made public, Albert Pujols’ name would be on it. Albert was the most popular figure in St. Louis and had been a great representative of the city and his being on this list would no doubt crush his public perception and put his entire career under the microscope.
Our competitor 1380AM chose to go on-air and report that Pujols was indeed on the list. At the same time, Fox 2-KTVU made the same call and decided to send a crew over to Albert’s restaurant and ask patrons how they felt about Pujols being on the list and whether or not they’d eat at his place of business again in the future.
The guys on my staff started to get antsy and wanted to run with the story and a few were starting to question why I was holding back on going with the story. I remember getting into a spirited argument with one of my guys and I told him “I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to St. Louis’ biggest superstar and if I’m late reporting on him cheating the game of baseball I can live with it….but I won’t be ok sleeping tonight if we make a decision to report him as guilty when we don’t have evidence to show that he is“.
An hour later the Mitchell Report came out and Albert Pujols’ name wasn’t on it. The staff seemed to be more relieved that we didn’t get beat to the story than happy that we were accurate but truth be told, it was a big risk. I had a 50/50 shot of being the hero or the goat and I chose to follow my gut and my beliefs which were “you’re innocent until proven guilty“. Maybe I’m old fashioned with situations like this but I’d rather be late and right than first and wrong.
The next day, I got a call from a member of Albert’s camp thanking me for how we handled the story and I specifically remember Albert expressing his disappointment with the local media during his first local news conference. Because we hadn’t presumed him guilty, he would grant a sit down interview with one of my reporters and one other local TV outlet who had also elected not to assassinate his character without evidence.
Now I didn’t care if Albert liked my radio station or not and I didn’t make that call hoping it would lead to him appearing on a show, I did it because it felt right and I believe attacking one’s character is only warranted when there’s evidence to support doing so. Going on witch hunts and reporting speculation is a dangerous area that usually results in the broadcaster having egg on their face. I can recall more personalities being suspended, fired and/or sued then those coming out on top after accusing someone of something without evidence.
It sounds basic but when breaking news happens I think you’ve got to be on top of it immediately and you’ve got to ask the right questions. As difficult as it may be, you’ve got to separate fact and speculation and do so quickly. So many people are in a rush to get content on the air that they hear one side of a story and run with it and then when the other side comes out later, they look foolish. It’s ok to report the one side that you know but how you paint the picture has a lot to do with how you’ll have to navigate the next part later on.
Even worse though is turning a blind eye to a story and pretending it isn’t there. When we first launched 95.7 The Game in San Francisco we spent a lot of time talking about these types of situations and sure enough, during our first month on-air there was a huge local story that I felt our crew did an excellent job with while our competitor missed the boat.
The 49ers and Raiders played a pre-season game at Candlestick Park in August 2011 and at that game a number of fights broke out in the stands and bathrooms. There was also a shooting in the parking lot. It was a scary situation and easily the number one story throughout the Bay Area.
Our competitor that Monday did a nice job of landing Joe Montana for an interview fifteen minutes before we did, so they had the advantage of getting the perspective on the situation first from one of the most famous San Francisco 49ers of all-time – except they never asked him about the situation.
Instead they spent 8 minutes of the interview asking Joe about the San Francisco Giants and 2 minutes on Alex Smith’s QB abilities. As soon as I heard what they were doing, I called my morning producer to make sure we had a strong plan ready for when Joe appeared with us and sure enough we did.
Joe then joined us right after that conversation and the first question from my morning crew was about the violence at Candlestick Park. We then spent the first 6-7 minutes of the interview talking about the situation with Joe and he was engaged in the topic and went as far as to tell us that when he played for the 49ers, he too saw similar situations occur in the stadium and didn’t always feel safe there. His comments would go on to make national news that day and become a topic of conversation for the rest of the broadcast day.
What happened that day was a result of good/bad strategic execution and that’s the same thing that took place this past weekend with the news coverage of the Ferguson situation.
I’ve seen people lose careers over making the wrong calls in these kind of situations and my approach is simple “dive into the story immediately, share the facts, allow for audience interaction and voice your opinion based on what you know“.
In these cases, we’re not the story – we’re simply the messenger passing along the information and giving people an outlet to express their opinion at. Your brand’s loyalty and trust are at stake and how you handle things determines whether or not your audience will turn to you again in the future.
I can tell you this, as someone who watches news television on a very limited basis, when the next major news story breaks my first stop will be to CNN not MSNBC or Fox News. It’s then CNN’s job to present the information well, keep the programming interesting and give me a reason to stay. If they don’t, then they’ve created an opportunity for their competition.
This is exactly what you’re faced with when the next big story breaks. Don’t try to be the one person in the room who thinks that just because everyone else is talking about it you don’t need to. That’s one of the biggest mistakes you can make. If you care about the needs of your audience and want their support in the future, give them what they came to you for.
It’s no different then going to see your favorite band. If they play every song that never was released and ignore the “hits“, chances are you’ll leave the show disappointed or less than satisfied. Those who crank out the tunes that everyone knows, usually benefit from having the crowd sing and dance along and spend more money on other CD’s, merchandise and tickets to future shows.
Like it or not, you work in the breaking news business and how you react to big events says a lot about your judgement and the way you value your audience. Embracing the subject, reporting the facts and allowing people an opportunity to weigh in puts you in position to form a deeper bond with the listener. Sensationalizing the content, reporting inaccurate information and choosing to ignore the story completely earns you mistrust, your brand being boycotted and in some cases unemployment.
Playing the hits isn’t difficult – you’ve just got to check your ego at the door and let the story be the star. Question is, can you do that?
Many times in life we’re presented with opportunities that force us to adjust our thinking and reconsider our original game plan. Nobody knows that better than Brandon Tierney. While he’s built a fantastic career and become one of the lead voices on national sports talk radio today, he didn’t get there without a few trials and tribulations along the way.
What makes this piece fun for me is that I have personal knowledge of some of those twists and turns due to having had the privilege of managing BT in San Francisco. What’s ironic is how similar our backgrounds are and it’s those similarities which make it easy to see why we were likely to cross paths at some point.
First, we’re both born in Brooklyn with father’s who worked for and are now retired from the NYPD. Secondly, he graduated from Marist College in Poughkeepsie, NY while I was working in radio less than a mile from the University. Third, he left NY to explore a radio career in PA, MI, NV and CA. I did the same moving to CT, PA, MO and CA. Fourth, he’s a diehard Yankees and Knicks fan. Those were my teams as well. The only area where things get muddy is when it comes to football. I was wiser and placed my faith in the NY Giants while BT fell victim to becoming a NY Jets fan. Poor guy.
Because we shared so much in common, that allowed for a very strong Program Director/On-Air Talent relationship. BT knew when he worked for me that I had his back and was going to do everything I could to support him and get the best out of him and I knew that when push came to shove and I needed strong leadership and execution from one of my prime time guys, he’d be ready to deliver. In my opinion, having that type of connection between PD and Host is vital for a station’s success.
It didn’t matter if the volume in the room got raised or if we disagreed on a subject because the goal for both of us was always the same – to win! Because we shared trust in one another and could be open and honest with our discussions, we were both able to play a huge role in the launch of 95.7 The Game and make it a special place to work at.
I can still remember two signature moments at the station when BT was with us that are worth sharing. The first was during one of our very first staff meetings when I laid out expectations for the team and gave them a realistic view of where we were and what we were going to need to do to become a legitimate contender in the market. After I explained the importance of everyone pulling in the same direction and winning their own individual battles, BT was the first to step up in front of the group and tell everyone how he wasn’t afraid of the challenge and was ready to take out his cannon and blow a hole in the competition’s building.
Instantly the room erupted with laughter and some of the guys were fired up and BT’s energy, confidence and passion was impossible not to recognize. It told everyone in the room that we were going to have fun, not be intimidated and compete as aggressively as possible.
BT was also the one to stick me with a nickname that I haven’t been able to shake to this day. When we launched the radio station we did so in an aggressive manner which fit most of our team and was easy for the younger demographic of our audience to relate to. One of the promos took some jabs at our competitor and had a monkey sound effect playing in the background which indicated that the station was being run by a monkey (If you’re a PD and haven’t been called that you haven’t arrived yet). Well BT comes on the air with Eric Davis after the promo fires and proclaims “they’ve got the chimp and we’ve got the pimp“.
I’d show up at a few broadcasts after that and have listeners approach me and ask “Are you the Pimp” and all I could do was laugh. It’s sort of like “The Godfather” nickname given to Luke Wilson in the movie “Old School”. By no means does it fit but it’s funny and people remember it. 3 years later it still hasn’t gone away.
While I could spend all day recapping our 2-year run in SF, that never would have happened had I not heard Brandon on the air in NY. The first time I heard him, he was on ESPN New York (it was 1050 ESPN at the time). Brandon was doing sports updates during the “Wally & The Keeg” afternoon drive time show and I immediately thought “who the heck is the guy doing a 2-minute talk show in the sports updates“?
He didn’t sound like the typical NY sports update anchor but he came across with a very cool sound and style and he had great passion and energy and I remember thinking “this is a guy to watch for in the future“. I had no idea at this time of his depth as a talk show host or whether or not the station had plans for him, I just remember that he stuck out. Obviously the station did have plans for him because they would end up utilizing him in a number of different roles over his 8+ year stay there.
While the on-air side of BT is easy to identify, one of the other great qualities about Brandon is how he conducts himself outside the workplace. First, he’s very loyal to his friends and family and anyone who’s been around him knows how much he loves and appreciates his wife Jen.
Second, for all the bravado you hear thru the speakers, he’s also the type of individual who will give a behind the scenes member an “atta boy” when they do a good job or some words of encouragement if they stumble. One of my current on-air personalities at 95.7 The Game (Zakariah) didn’t make the cut during an on-air competition and while he was dejected from being eliminated, BT made time to talk to him and encourage him to not give up. He then sought me out and proceeded to tell me why the guy was worth keeping around. Not every key personality on a radio station is willing to do that, especially for someone who’s unproven.
I remember opening my office door on Monday after BT had left for NYC and this note was under it (pic on the left). It reinforced that he appreciated the way I tried to make him better and as a Program Director, that’s my number one goal when working with talent. To have it recognized by the people you invest time is part of what makes the job rewarding.
I caught up with BT recently to have him put into perspective many of the experiences he’s gone thru in the industry because I thought they’d be interesting to those who are looking to reach the same level he’s advanced to. I also wanted to pick his brain on some of the key components to doing a daily talk radio show and as usual, he had plenty to say.
Q: When did you first realize you wanted to pursue a career in sports radio? What triggered it?
A: I always had a passion for writing and as the medium exploded during my college years, I knew it was a path I would pursue. Truthfully, the foundation was born much, much earlier but I never viewed it as a viable profession until I was 19 or 20. My laboratory was my basement, watching games with my Dad and reading the sports section as early as 7 years old.
After every basketball practice, my Dad and I would hit the diner and debate all of the local teams, what they needed to do in the draft, free agency, etc. I had an early appreciation for the history of sport and he sensed that and always engaged me, quizzed me and explained the different eras to me. Every car ride was in essence, a mock radio show, even though I didn’t know it at the time. Still, growing up, and even early on in college, my focus was directed at playing baseball, not broadcasting.
Q: Prior to entering the industry, which talk show hosts and broadcasters did you listen to and would list as influences on your career?
A: Options were pretty limited back then. ESPN New York didn’t exist, neither did YES or SNY. It was WFAN all day, every day. If you didn’t like Mike, you better enjoy Dog. If Dog wasn’t your cup of tea, you better like Mike’s style. There was no streaming or apps available either. Whatever your local market served up, you listened to.
I’ve always said that I’ve taken pieces from both: Mike’s attention to detail and ability to recall stats and Dog’s ability to entertain and incite. Of course, I loved Marv Albert’s work with the Knicks but Mark Jackson’s no-look passes and Mattingly’s HR trot were things I emulated, or at least tried to, not Albert’s inflection or overall delivery.
Q: Your first stint in sports radio as a daily talk show host came in Allentown, PA. How did you land the opportunity and what did you learn from that first experience in sports broadcasting?
A: I was relentless but not having much success breaking into the business. Because I played baseball at Marist, my summers still revolved around baseball, meaning my resume was pretty empty in terms of internships or practical experience. I had a Journalism degree but that was about it. I worked construction for spending money and I always kept my writing skills sharp but quite frankly, outside of having a burning passion for the medium, I wasn’t very appealing to potential employers. I even had a stint at Fidelity working in the IRA Department before finally breaking thru with a post grad internship at Fox 5’s “Good Day New York.”
I was still living at home in Brooklyn and had to be at the studio by 3:30 every morning and I’d listen to Joe Benigno on the way in and really appreciated how raw and real his delivery was. By then, radio was like a drug for me. I remember locating a website with every sports radio and television station in the country and sent my resume, basement demo tape, head shot and cover letter everywhere. Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Wyoming, etc.
Most ignored me, while a few sent rejection letters, until finally, a tiny station in Allentown responded and said they were looking for a co-host for their morning show. The station had one sales person, a few desks and a sparse studio but it had a microphone and in my heart I knew it had my name on it. Before entering the office for the interview, I went to the rest room, took one knee, and prayed over the sink, kind of like Rocky did in his corner before hearing the bell. I knew absolutely nothing about the business, the equipment, the FCC…nothing. But I knew I had a lot to say. Everything else I learned on the fly and it was awesome.
Q: From Allentown you moved to Las Vegas for a little bit to work for the Sports Fan Radio Network. That then helped land you in Detroit where you were hired by WDFN. How did the Detroit situation come about and how would you characterize your experience in the motor city?
A: I’ve always pointed to Detroit as the most pivotal point in my career. Allentown got me in the door, Sports Fan increased my exposure but Detroit was my first true exposure with a rabid and territorial fan base. WDFN was one of our affiliates for Sports Fan and I remember bombarding Gregg Henson with e-mails and phone calls regarding a full-time on-air opening he posted on Rick Scott’s industry site, which I did not get. He liked me but didn’t think I was ready and he was right. I remember sitting in my kitchen in Las Vegas a few months later and Gregg offered me a Sat/Sun shift along with a few other clerical things to make ends meet financially. It was a big risk because it was limited hours with zero benefits but we connected. He told me to trust him and that in a few months he expected a big corporate shakeup but couldn’t divulge any details. Within five days my car was packed and I drove from Nevada to Detroit.
Several months later he called me into his office, closed the door and congratulated me on becoming the new midday host. I was flying solo and that really helped me ease into being myself on-air. A few weeks after I took over middays, he called me into his office and let me have it. He implored me to stay true to my roots and let it rip. That’s definitely when something clicked. His exact words were: “You’re a New Yorker, so you already have one strike against you here, these people bleeping hate you. Bleep them. I hired you because you have balls. Bleep them, and do your thing. The city will eventually embrace you.”
Eventually, I developed a strong rapport with Pistons HC Rick Carlisle and the ice thawed. I worked hard to establish credibility with the fans, players and Pistons front office. I was always at Comerica Park, even though the Tigers were terrible. I treated the Lions with the same passion after a loss the way I treated the Jets. I locked in, worked my ass off, hustled, and began to blossom. I was young, a little crazy, and it just worked.
I also learned about the business side in Detroit and took my first stand with management and eventually walked away from a contract extension because I thought it was way below market value, which it was. I hadn’t yet hired an agent and Clear Channel attempted to leverage my youth against me. I actually cleaned out my desk after a show, went back to my apartment, got drunk and tried to convince myself that I didn’t just destroy my career. A very, very pivotal point for me and something I am very proud of.
Q: Next you got the call to head home to NY to join 1050 ESPN and while at the station you’d climb the ladder and land a spot opposite Stephen A. Smith which immediately put you under the biggest microscope of your career at that time. How was it working with Stephen A. and what were the best/worst parts of the experience?
A: I’ll never forget our first show together. We were in two different locations: he was in our Manhattan studio and I was on remote on the LIRR platform outside of Shea Stadium for the Mets home opener. We never met before and while he might conveniently forget this, he was a bit dismissive at first and obviously that wasn’t flying on my end. I wouldn’t say that the first segment was contentious but it was certainly uncomfortable, choppy and lacked flow. During the first break, I’m staring into space wondering what the hell I just got myself into and literally the first phone call we take the next segment, the caller welcomes SAS to the station and jokingly but sternly cautioned him to “watch it with BT. He’s sharp, has a lot of fans and will become a big asset to the show.”
That thawed the ice, we both laughed and the next day in studio, we clicked immediately.He was new to radio and I as carving out my turf but I let him know that I had his back and wasn’t looking to mow him down. At the end of the day, he’s from Queens and I’m from Brooklyn, and things flowed naturally.
Stephen A. is incredibly generous, smart and fair, and he is one of the great, unique talents to ever work in our medium. I’ve said it before and I still believe if ESPN had let us vibe and in essence stayed out of our way, we would have owned the city. It was a unique, combustible, energetic and funny show. Years later, a few key management figures acknowledged to me that they made a big mistake breaking us up and micro-managing the show. No regrets, as I am a big believer in everything happening for a reason but when it comes to Stephen A, I will always have his back and he’ll always have mine.
Q: Once that show ended, you were paired with Jody Mac who was a familiar name and voice to NY sports radio listeners. How would you describe that experience and how was it different from working with Stephen?
A: Totally a different speed but very, very enjoyable. Jody Mac has a heart of gold and brings his hard hat to work every day. He’s always ready to scrap and knows something about everything. I knew that if I mentioned a key play in the Cardinals game or the Nuggets game from the night before, even though we were local in New York, he was always up to speed. It was a fun blend of Mac’s old school methods and my approach, which can fluctuate between old and new school.
I remember the day I set up Jody’s Twitter account after months of prodding. We let the audience know and it was my goal to get him 1000 followers in one hour and just as we hit the post for a :10 legal ID to end the show, one more cranked in and it hit four digits, and I signed off. Great guy, heart of gold, easy partner.
Q: After nearly 9 years you parted ways with ESPN NY. When you look back on the overall experience with the station, how would you sum it up?
A: Overall it was very positive and I’m extremely proud of my time with ESPN. The power of the company expanded my platforms and reach and was a key period in my career, opening pivotal doors with TV and Knicks radio broadcasts.
It also introduced me to the corporate structure of the 4 letters, which at times, for talent, is frustrating. Bristol’s idea of radio is very different from what works in New York. New York is loud and at times, uncomfortably loud, which at times, they resisted, particularly with me. It always felt more as a vehicle for TV, rather than a true, conventional radio station.
Q: Following ESPN NY, you moved to San Francisco to help launch 95.7 The Game. How did that situation come about and what made moving to SF appealing to you?
A: I remember sitting on my couch in Hoboken, weighing a PM drive opportunity when I received a text message from you, urging me to consider the Bay Area before jumping into anything else. I was married less than five months at the time, and my wife and I felt an immediate surge of excitement. The Bay Area was appealing from minute #1: the lifestyle along with the vibrant sports scene pushed it right to the top of the list.
I could tell that you and I shared quite a bit in common too other than being loud and opinionated so once you shared your vision for the station and I visited a few times, I knew I could trust you and it felt right. We were all in and thrilled we did so. Two wonderful years in an amazing city that Jen and I will never forget.
Q: While at 95.7 The Game, you hosted PM drive opposite former NFL Cornerback Eric Davis. What was the best and toughest part of working with a former athlete?
A: Specifically with ED, we were trying to develop show chemistry without knowing each other, so understandably, our first obstacle was learning how to trust one another. It seems easy but it’s not, not under the umbrella of pressure to achieve ratings growth while helping launch a new sports station versus KNBR, one of the industry titans.
The toughest part of that was again, being an outsider and being an outsider from New York, which equates to immediate resistance from fans. My in-your-face style was a different vibe than most of the sports talk in the Bay Area and it was a constant battle to win people over. Every segment felt like a cage match, battling to prove that I was the best man for the job.
ED is very laid back so we needed to find common ground, which eventually happened. I learned so much about the actual game of football from him that it’s impossible to do it justice in this piece. The mind of a pro athlete, the business side…all things I gained by working with him. An obvious plus were his contacts and Super Bowl crew. Montana, Rice, Deion and Roger Craig…you name the star, we had him on our show.
Q: You then left 95.7 The Game to help launch the CBS Sports Radio Network where you’re hosting morning drive with Tiki Barber and Dana Jacobsen. How would you describe the experience of doing national network programming so far?
A: I absolutely love the blank canvas my national show provides me with. I enjoy discussing topics more than games at this point being that it’s more stimulating. Gay athletes, domestic violence…pertinent issues that society deals with, we are able to dive into those issues deeper on the national scene than I would locally. The local teams fuel are the local heart beat, but when executed properly, national shows can provide more poignant moments, in my opinion.
With over 150 affiliates nationwide, the feedback from listeners is more diverse and less stale. Don’t get me wrong, there are elements of local radio that I absolutely miss, but a national forum is an incredible gift. Specifically, the show has grown tremendously, We have more fun. Our quirks and defects are coming thru, and we embrace them, which humanizes the show.
Q: What are the biggest differences in how you approach hosting a show nationally vs. locally? Do you have a preference in either of them?
A: On the national level, you essentially check your affinity for baseball at the door, which for me at times is tough. Football drives the engine, and aside from the NBA Playoffs with Lebron or free agency or Tiger Woods or social issues that develop, it’s pigskin 24/7. Baseball is dying a slow death nationally, which saddens me, but I’m smart enough to recognize that. Quite frankly, it was an adjustment I was reticent to make at first but I have. It’s a regional sport and in some markets, it remains fertile: New York, Boston, Philly, St. Louis and the Bay Area come to mind. For the most part however it’s all about football. As for preference, I truly enjoy both for different reasons because they are two different types of shows.
Q: When doing a show, what order of importance do you place on the following: Interviews, Callers, Using Audio, Debate Between Hosts and Entertainment Stories (not sports)? Why?
A: For me, the template for a radio show, particularly when there are three people involved, revolves around compelling stories that spark debate. Not contrived debate but genuine and sincere disagreement. When plotting out my show, I envision a blank canvas with no calls and no guests and I go from there. As a morning show, it’s nice to ease into the program with personal stuff. I might even relay a disagreement my wife and I had the previous night because it’s something everyone can relate to. People are starting their day and for the most part, no one cares about how the Yankees or Tigers lost last night. If it’s big enough, like instant replay or a brawl or a serious injury, we’ll hit it early, otherwise I leave it for Dana’s update.
While negotiating with CBS, it was made clear that we will take calls, which was very important to me. I feel it adds a certain pulse that is necessary and if screened and handled properly, is a real asset for our network. We interview actors, authors and of course A-list sports figures too. If we think you can enhance our program, we will bring you on. If you’re boring and lack opinions or substance, you won’t be around long. Doing interviews just to kill time will never fly on my show. Lazy radio kills me.
Q: You’ve learned from some talented programming minds such as Eric Spitz, Gregg Henson, Kevin Graham, Michael Thompson, Justin Craig, Scott Masteller and myself. What have been some of the biggest takeaways you’ve gained from these people and how do you apply them in what you do on-air today?
A: Very different people with very different management styles and thoughts on what makes a compelling show. I learned quite a bit from Scott Masteller in terms of properly using sound to enhance segments and to effectively tease forward, which is something you also believe in. Succinctly teasing without giving it away was always a challenge for me because for a long time, in my mind, more words equated to a more powerful delivery. Not necessarily true. Also, playing sound just for the sake of playing sound is a big crutch in our business. Use sound to punctuate a point or to bridge something together.
Gregg Henson was the first PD I worked for who encouraged guy talk, which is key and he also helped me find my natural personality on-air. As for Eric Spitz, he’s seen it all and has a very calm and cerebral management style, which I like. He also has our back. Every PD will say that but sometimes it feels hollow and talent can sniff that out immediately. It’s a true partnership and Spitzie is terrific.
As for you, if I was starting a station tomorrow, you’d be sitting in one of the key offices making key decisions. People want to follow you, work for you, succeed for you. One of the brilliant minds in our industry and I can honestly say that you tightened up my game and made me better.
Q: If there’s one aspect of your game that you consider to be your strong suit what would you say it is? Where do you feel you need to improve still as an on-air talent?
A: Natural energy and charisma are big strengths for myself. I have a general enthusiasm for flipping open a microphone, being engaged in the content and immersed in whatever is topical. At the end of the day, I am extremely motivated to meet the challenge of taking an otherwise benign topic and presenting it in way that provokes thought and stimulates conversation. Think of any topic as a tree, once you move past the root and the first few obvious branches, what’s next? That’s what separates the good from the great and that is what I strive for. Every branch represents unique opportunity.
In terms of improving, everyone can improve, even absolute strengths. If a golfer shoots a 66, next time, hit the putt on 18 and finish with a 65. I am striving to get better at every aspect of radio and TV and that will never change. I truly enjoy interviews and take pride in getting answers others might not get. It’s like a boxer: going for a one shot KO is foolish; work the body, loosen ’em up, then drop the uppercut. It’s an art, something I strive to perfect. If I happen to piss you off along the way, tough.
Q: In order to continue improving as a talent and as a show, what are some ways you and your colleagues focus on measuring your growth?
A: Our barometer is pretty simple: did we laugh and did the show move? Did we deliver what the audience expects? Did we ask the pertinent questions? Did it feel big? There’s an internal mechanism every good radio show host must have but you have to be honest with yourself. I have no problem saying out loud “that segment sucked, let’s pick it up” once we hit break. We’ve worked hard to create fun, fast segments that are aimed at grabbing the audience.
Q: Outside of your show you are very active with your followers on social media. Not all personalities believe though that they should do that. Why do you believe it’s important?
A: It’s an extension of my show and allows me to express myself without filter or time restraints. I honestly enjoy being able to chat with true fans as much as I enjoy the challenge of trying to convert critics. Plus, not everyone that follows me on Twitter listens to my radio show. Some watch me on TOPS on CBS Sports Network, others have listened to me thru the years calling St. John’s basketball games. It’s a way to put everything in one big blender, hit mix, and see what whips up. I’m accessible, I’m not hiding.
Q: For someone considering a career in our industry today, what advice would you like to pass along to them?
A: Before you waste a penny on resumes, CD’s, postage or head shots, walk to the nearest mirror and stare at the reflection. Lock in on your eyes, and self-assess in the most honest manner possible. Are you willing to relocate and bounce from station to station with no assurances of future success or riches? Are you a grinder? Is it a passion? Does radio pump blood to your heart and oxygen to your brain? Does it stimulate your senses to the point that you cannot imagine being fulfilled without it? If the answer isn’t emphatically yes, make a u-turn, save yourself the trouble and find a conventional job because you will fail.
Brandon Tierney can be heard throughout the country weekday mornings from 6a-9a EST on the CBS Sports Radio Network. For more information on his show with Tiki Barber and Dana Jacobsen click here. You can also follow Brandon on Twitter by clicking here.
That quote above from Shane Battier paints a great picture of what is required for teams to come together and accomplish their goals. Everyone plays a critical role in the direction of the team and without full support from everyone involved, success becomes much harder to achieve.
Another one of my favorite quotes comes from The Rock who was working for the WWE back in the 1990’s-2000’s. He became notorious for delivering the line “Know Your Role and Shut Your Damn Mouth” and when uttered on a live microphone, audiences would eat it up. While the phrase was primarily created to fire up rowdy wrestling fans, the first 3 words of his catch phrase are extremely important to what we do each day that we’re on the air.
To start out this piece I’d like you to do an exercise tonight. Trust me, it’s painless and chances are it’s something you likely already do. Tonight when you arrive at home, I want you to turn on your television and watch a sitcom. If sitcoms aren’t your cup of tea, put on a movie. By the time the program is done, I want you to reflect back on the program and see if you can identify the main storyline, the key characters in the show, the roles the key characters play and the way those characters connected with you.
I believe the TV and film industries do a fabulous job with role definition on various shows and featured films. The sports radio industry however has some catching up to do. When you look on the screen, characters are built up prior to being introduced and then they are explained and reinforced with key branding messages. They rarely stray from what you expect them to be and that makes it easy for audiences to identify with them while getting sucked into storylines with regularity.
Think for a second of some key television shows and how they’ve connected. If you watched American Idol in it’s heyday, you turned on the channel to either love or loathe Simon Cowell. If you watched The Sopranos you either wanted to see Tony Soprano get away with murder or get a taste of his own medicine. In both cases, they had characters around them who offered something entirely different and that kept the show fresh, interesting and unique.
If you look at it in simpler terms, one medium scripts it’s work, perfects its performance, defines it’s people and delivers content that an audience adjusts their routines to consume, enjoy and connect with each week. The other operates off the cuff and puts the power of a content presentation usually in the hands of 1-2 people with very limited support around them. It’s the equivalent of throwing a good swimmer in the middle of the ocean without a life preserver and asking them to find a way to shore when there’s no sign of land.
That being said, those who earn the responsibility of working without a net are often stubborn and not always accurate when it comes to making decisions that are in the best interest of the audience. In many cases they don’t understand their role on a show or the way they’re perceived thru the eyes and ears of the audience. Even worse, sometimes they don’t want to play to the audiences expectations even if they do understand them.
I recall meeting with a show during my time in St. Louis and when I asked one of the two hosts to define how he felt the audience saw him, he said he felt they’d say he was passionate and entertaining. This was a guy who was your typical sports television anchor, very smart, informed, well prepared and usually reserved. By most people’s standards he was a great guy. However, passionate and entertaining he was not.
His partner on the other hand was a polarizing figure who the market either loved or hated and he too responded by telling me he was seen as a smart, likable, funny and well rounded personality. He wanted to be liked because at his core he was a great human being but his stances on subjects were very divisive and therein lied the struggle for this individual.
When I told both of them they had no understanding of the way the audience saw them they seemed perplexed. I then went thru some examples of how they could strike a chord with people and why the imaging we had in place was written the way it was done to promote them. When they left the room, they had a better idea of why I felt they were struggling and suggestions on how to fix it but they kept trying to identify with a role that they had built up in their minds yet wasn’t seen the same way by the audience. The end result was an under performing show that eventually had to be replaced.
I can’t even tell you how many times this occurs. Personalities sometimes want so badly to be something they’re not that they’ll try to overcompensate by doing things out of character and even worse, they’ll try to reject the way they’re positioned on the air in promos, liners and in station marketing pieces. The problem with that is that it’s not just about the PD’s vision or the personality’s opinion on who they think they are, it’s about connecting with a listening audience and playing the role of a character that they identify with. Let me give a few examples of role definition and why I believe it’s important for shows.
In San Francisco my afternoon drive time host Damon Bruce has a lot of strong opinions, he delivers his views with a ton of passion and he’s been known to ruffle a few feathers from time to time. You could say he’s not everybody’s cup of tea but whether he’s loved or hated, people know where to find him and usually have an opinion about something he said.
Now we could pretend that Damon isn’t edgy or hasn’t made a few folks uncomfortable along the way with his takes but that would be silly because the audience is smarter than that. Instead we positioned the show with some aggressive style promos prior to launching it, we reinforce his strong takes in the promos that we run and we use a godzilla-like stinger heading into breaks which gives the show some extra edge and personality.
The bottom line is we embrace what he brings to the airwaves and reinforce that position. Whether it’s everyone’s taste or not is irrelevant because the fact of the matter is it’s an accurate reflection of Damon’s on-air personality and when you put on his show he’s going to provide a compelling listen and not be afraid to take certain positions that others might not. That in itself makes branding the show pretty easy and the way it’s imaged and branded is in line with the expectations of the listener.
More times than not, brand building with a solo host is pretty simple. All you need to do is take a look at some of the characteristics that they possess and get a sense of what the audience expects from them and then play to those strengths. I often like to use music bumping in from breaks that fits the individual and their style to reinforce the mood and I think that writing liners that reinforce the personality’s key traits inside of the show is another smart tactic.
On the other hand if you look at how a 3-person show is built, it’s a whole different animal. It’s similar to creating a big three in the NBA.
For example, LeBron James in Cleveland will likely be expected to take the last shot, play smothering defense, be the vocal leader and attack the rim every chance he gets. Kyrie Irving will be asked to run each play, put his teammates in position to get good looks at the basket and serve as a complimentary scorer when LeBron needs help. And once the Kevin Love trade is finalized, Kevin will be asked to rebound the basketball, crowd the paint and light it up from outside when he’s able to break free. Each player is crucial to the team’s success but each of them takes on a different role to best help the team win.
I have a theory that I’ve developed when it comes to 3-person shows. In most cases it’s worked out alright even though sometimes the individuals playing the roles inside the show may not always embrace it. Coming up early in my career in NY I worked on a few different morning shows with a variety of characters and I remember being told that when it came to group shows, you want to strive to combine people from different backgrounds and in a perfect world, if you can pinpoint the “deer, dick and dork” on a show then you’re in great shape. That line always stuck with me and made a lot of sense.
If those buzz words seem harsh, feel free to substitute the terms “the hero”, “the villain” and “the neutral one” (often this is the journalist, the stat person, the PXP broadcaster, etc.). Just because you have three guys though who fit these terms doesn’t mean the show is going to work. They still need to have chemistry, be entertaining and discuss the right subjects but assuming those things are in place, when you have three people fitting descriptions that make them easy to identify, that’s a huge win. Remember, it’s about connecting with an audience and people are more likely to recall individuals on the air who they can easily identify.
As an example, when I was in St. Louis I had an awesome afternoon show at 101 ESPN titled “The Fast Lane“. The show as consistently top 3 and even went to #1 and while each guy was extremely talented, the reason it was so successful was because each guy naturally fit the role he was playing and he didn’t try to run from the perception of how he was seen.
In Randy Karraker’s case he came across most times as the “dork” simply because he was so damn informative and the guy you most likely learned the most from listening to the show. He was also the radio captain of the show handling all the formatics. Bob Ramsey meanwhile played the “dick” role because he wasn’t worried about popular opinion and sometimes would get a case of the red ass and not think twice to light someone up. The third member was D’Marco Farr and he came across as the “dear” due to being a big lovable teddy bear on-air and a member of the Rams Super Bowl 34 championship team.
This doesn’t mean that Bob was a jerk and couldn’t be positive or that Randy wasn’t lovable or a hard ass too but rather than trying to complicate things, each of those guys embraced their roles on the show, played them to perfection and as a result, audiences related to and connected with them and made them a household brand in the market. Because they were all naturally different and because they worked at developing their chemistry and embracing their differences, they had a lot of success.
The purpose of this piece today is to get you to think about your show, your brand and how you position it to the marketplace. Are you using the right buzz words to identify yourself? Are you trying to play the role of someone you’re not? Do you have a show you’re involved in that has too many of the same type of styles and not enough variety to stand out? Those are the things that you’ve got to examine if you want people to form deeper relationships and stronger opinions on your presentation.
I’ll say this, one show that gets this probably better than anyone is Mike and Mike. Some guys will quickly say they love the show and tell you every reason they do and when they do that, they’re almost always restating the key words that have been built around the Mike and Mike brand.
Those who don’t like the show will almost always call it corny or proceed to complain about one of Golic or Greeny’s traits that are highlighted in the marketing approach of the show. That is the beauty of role definition and character development. If you can pinpoint who does what in each show, what the individual is about and why you love/hate the personality or show then you likely have a winner on your hands and few will disagree that Mike and Mike have been a winner for a long time. Here’s an older TV commercial of theirs that captures their differences and highlight who they are as personalities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b146pasyO0E
One thing I like to do prior to the launch of a show is assemble the people involved in the show in a room and write some words on a board that the group feels reflect the individual positively and negatively in the minds of the audience. Often times talent will see them, write things down, counter them, inquire more on why the audience sees them a certain way and by the time they’re done in the room, they have a stronger idea of who they are to the audience and what they’ll need to do to reinforce their character and add to it in order to form a stronger connection.
This doesn’t work with everyone but if you can get your crew in a room and they’re open minded and willing to self-analyze and allow some outside feedback to better help position the show, it can be very helpful.
Remember, who we are as people and who we are on the air can be very different sometimes but once that light goes on and the microphone is hot, all that matters is finding a way to connect the audience to your on-air persona. When you’re able to do that, it can be very powerful and put you on a path to superstardom. I’m sure you’d agree that creating the radio equivalent of Seinfeld, American Idol or The Sopranos wouldn’t be bad for your career. So what’s stopping you?
While that story certainly got my attention, I was already familiar with Shan’s work. Prior to moving to Dallas, Shan worked for 610 Sports in Kansas City and local ESPN Radio affiliate in Maryland. I remember hearing his work for the first time courtesy of Jon Chelesnik at STAA Talent while Shan was in Maryland and when I listened to him I thought he was unique which was a good thing. There was a lot to like in the original presentation even though he was still a little green.
As luck would have it, an opening would pop open in Kansas City and Shan’s work was recognized by Program Director Ryan Maguire who would hire him to host a 2-hour midday show for the radio station. From there, Shan’s career started to take off. He spent the next year working for 610 where he’d fine tune his craft, become more polished and start to gain some ratings traction and his hard work and success would draw the attention of Bruce Gilbert in Dallas who would make the decision to hire Shan and bring his “New School” style to Dallas where he’d team up with RJ Choppy for 105.3 The Fan.
Today when I listen to Shan’s show, I find it to be very entertaining, fast paced and built for Men 18-44. It has an element of unpredictability which I like and I think that’s important especially during morning drive. When you take into account that there are three competitive sports radio stations battling for every quarter hour of listening in the Dallas market, shows need to be unique to the local audience and Shan and RJ have found their place in the overall mix.
Q: How did you get started in sports talk radio?
Q: After starting your career in Maryland, you left for Kansas City to host mid-days for 610 Sports. How difficult was it to enter the market as an outsider and attempt to win people over? How did you approach the situation to show people you were invested in the things they cared about?
Q: Following your stint in KC, you moved to Dallas where you’ve since worked for 2 great programmers (Bruce Gilbert and Gavin Spittle) at 105.3 The Fan. Share one thing they’ve taught you that you use in your approach each day?
Q: In your market there are 3 strong sports radio stations (The Fan, The Ticket, ESPN 103.3) – how is your show unique vs. your competition? What do you do regularly to stand out?
Q: When it comes to executing a 4-hour show, how many guests do you like to have on, how many segments involve callers, how many features are included, etc? What’s the right type of balance in your opinion?
Q: You’re extremely active on social media (one of the busiest in the format). Why do you believe that’s important for an on-air personality?
Q: You’ve advanced in your career and during the process, have used an agent to assist you. Do you believe an agent is necessary? What is the downside of using representation?
