The Industry According To….Rich Tunkel, Nielsen

Thank you for checking out ‘The Industry According To’. This series runs each Tuesday, and features radio and record industry executives, managers, programmers, talent, artists, and professionals from all areas of the business world. For future guest consideration, please email me at keithblackboxgroup@gmail.com.

Today we hear from someone who heads one of the most influential and scrutinized brands in audio entertainment, Rich Tunkel, Managing Director of Nielsen Audio.

Rich isn’t just a measurement executive. He knows sales, audience behavior, and sees trends emerge early. He’s at the forefront of tech, trying to keep radio measurement as reliable and modern as possible.

Radio’s Health Check

Keith: Radio is a big sector for Nielsen. You see the revenue numbers, the downsizing, and now the historically low purchase prices for stations. What’s your honest assessment of the overall health of the radio industry?

Rich: I see an industry with incredible reach and continued relevance. We consistently see that broadcast radio reaches nearly 9 out of 10 adults every week. That is a massive, unduplicated audience that advertisers can’t ignore. The industry doesn’t have an audience problem, it has a perception problem among marketers.  The focus must be on value proposition and modernization. The industry has to stop selling against old data perceptions and start proving its true impact.

Our job at Nielsen is to provide the most complete, modern, and trustworthy currency so radio can confidently compete for ad dollars. We’ve also developed outcomes solutions that help radio demonstrate just how effective it is. Radio is perceived to be the least effective media, when the data shows just the opposite. Radio generates the highest ROI of any media.

Keith: Given the industry’s continued revenue decline, what would you do to stimulate revenue if you were running a radio group?

Rich: I would prioritize proving return on investment (ROI) and focusing on a holistic view of the audience.

1. Embrace Attribution: Leverage Nielsen data with other datasets to show advertisers the direct correlation between a radio campaign and an action (like a store visit or online purchase). Radio can no longer just sell reach; it must sell results.
2. Highlight the In-Car Advantage: Radio is the dominant media in the car, where most listening happens. This is a massive, premium environment. We need to market that dominance aggressively. It is also important that the automotive OEM’s recognize Radio’s prominence in the vehicle and the #1 place they give Radio over all other ad-supported audio platforms in the car.
3. Cross-Platform View: Don’t just sell the stick; sell the full audio footprint (stream, podcast, smart speaker). Advertisers want simplicity and scale. The industry needs to deliver its full digital and broadcast audience in one cohesive narrative.
4. Radio makes everything better.  We see that Radio improves the campaign every time we add it to any media plan. The reach goes up, the frequency improves, the efficiency increases. All of this can be achieved for FREE if a marketer simply shifts budget (as little as 10%) to Radio. We can’t say this loudly enough and repeat it often enough.

Keith: With Nielsen’s fees not mirroring radio’s revenue pacing, is Nielsen concerned about pricing itself out of Radio over the next few years?

Rich: Our focus is on delivering value. We understand the financial pressures. Our investments—like the 3-Minute Qualifier enhancement, panel modernization, and integrating new audio streams—are directly aimed at helping the industry capture more credit for the listening it already earns and, in turn, grow its revenue base. The goal is to be indispensable by providing the currency required to transact in a competitive ad market and proving that the investment in measurement pays for itself by unlocking more ad revenue.

I also think that broadcasters too often equate ratings with national and agency-driven business. While ratings are critical for that business, the insights and ability to talk to a local advertiser with intelligence and confidence about not just your station, but the entire marketplace is essential. Local advertisers want you to be a marketing expert on all of radio, television, digital, and advertising. That’s what clients who use our data and tools like the ratings and Scarborough the best are doing.

Beyond this, Nielsen is the leading marketing intelligence platform This goes far beyond traditional advertising needs. We give a view of the entire industry and where radio fits. That helps with programming and promotional strategies in addition to advertising. Our data continues to show that there is untapped value in the audio market. 

The 3-Minute Rule

Keith: It’s been nearly a year since the 3-Minute Rule went into effect in PPM markets. While reported listening is expectedly up, the ad community isn’t revaluing inventory. What are your thoughts on the 3-minute rule after its first year?

Rich: The 3-Minute Qualifier (crediting a quarter-hour of listening if a panelist is exposed for at least three minutes, instead of five) was a necessary modernization of an old rule. We are proud that the industry and Nielsen worked together on it.

• The Positive: It has done exactly what it was designed to do—capture more valid listening that was previously lost, which better reflects today’s consumer behavior. Broadcasters are getting credit for listening occasions that were previously excluded.
• The Challenge: The ad community and agencies move deliberately. They need time to study the new trend line and become comfortable revaluing inventory. It is incumbent upon the radio industry to proactively present this expanded audience credit to the ad buyers, showing them exactly where the new listening is, and demanding that the new currency be transacted upon. This is a long-term benefit, not a flip-the-switch revenue generator.

John Snyder of @nielsen is on stage at the BSM Summit discussing the 3-minute switch. pic.twitter.com/I4v3jcKBfD

— Barrett Media (@Barrett_Media) May 9, 2025

Which Data Point?

Keith: There are several metrics in a Nielsen Audio report. Programmers focus primarily on share. Sales teams prioritize rating. If you had to single out one data point for programmers and another for sales teams, which would they be? Which two matter most today, and why?

Rich: For Programmers: Average Quarter-Hour (AQH) Persons and Time Spent Listening (TSL). The programmer’s core job is to build and maintain a strong audience base. The new environment rewards engagement. AQH Persons is the engine of the station’s core audience, and TSL is the key indicator of product quality. If TSL is up, the product is sticky, and the listener is engaged.

For Sales Teams: Cume (Reach) and Attribution Metrics. Radio’s superpower is its massive reach (Cume). Sales should lead with that massive scale to compete with digital. However, the most critical “new” data point is Attribution. Sales must pivot to showing how radio advertising drove a measurable result (foot traffic, sales, website lift). This is the language of modern advertising and the only way to prove radio’s value beyond GRPs (Gross Rating Points).

The One Meter Theory

Keith: A common phrase throughout programming circles is, “One meter can make a difference.” It’s true: a small number of meters or a household, in a city of millions, can have a big impact on the overall radio economy and revenue flow — even one or two panelists can make or break a brand’s quarter. What’s stopping faster panel growth in local markets?

Rich: Panel integrity is paramount. Nielsen maintains a panel that is both representative and compliant. Increasing the panel size dramatically for local markets is a constant effort, but simply adding more panelists is not enough and is not economically viable for broadcasters. We must ensure the new additions accurately reflect the market’s specific demographics. This requires intense, scientific sampling.

We are constantly using advanced techniques and looking at innovations like combining our panel data with non-panel “big data” sources, to provide a more granular view, which is the ultimate solution.

The Big Picture

Keith: When it comes to usage time, radio competes with everything from radio to podcasts to TikTok. What’s truly moving the needle for radio? How can the industry increase its rank in the pecking order of attention and usage?

Rich: What moves the needle is Immediacy, Localism, and Personality.

• Immediacy: Real-time information, local news, and traffic that no one else can deliver as efficiently.
• Localism: The connection to the community—events, local causes, and a voice that understands the market.
• Personality: The relationship between the listener and the talent. This is radio’s most unique and defensible asset.

To increase its rank, the industry must aggressively integrate broadcast with digital. Radio must make its content easy to consume on every platform (smart speakers, apps, social video clips) and ensure it is all measured cohesively. Radio needs to sell itself as a holistic audio solution, not just a signal.

Immediacy

Keith: Radio sells on delayed data. Through Nielsen’s partnership with Media Monitors, Audio Overnights gives programmers the fastest directional data to date, for stations that want to pay extra. Why isn’t something like Audio Overnights a part of the Nielsen/Media Monitors basic package for Radio clients? Why is faster data treated as a premium upgrade instead of being standard, especially as radio competes with platforms that have access to more immediate data?

Rich: Audio Overnights is a sophisticated tool that offers directional insight based on the overlap between Nielsen’s panel and Media Monitors’ production. It requires a significant and unique investment in infrastructure and processing to deliver that speed and directional accuracy. To make it standard for every client would require a significant increase in the base service price for everyone, and not every station necessarily needs or uses that level of real-time directional data. Our philosophy is to keep the core currency service (the official, accredited measurement) as accessible as possible, and offer high-value, specialized tools like Overnights as a premium upgrade for those who need the competitive edge of faster data.

Misconceptions

Keith: There will always be complaints about ratings. It’s also true though that a lot of people don’t fully understand how the system works. What’s the biggest misunderstanding of Nielsen Audio and how everything works?

Rich: The biggest misunderstanding is that we are simply counting listeners. We are not. We are projecting a statistically representative panel to the entire population. People forget that the PPM is not a device for every listener; it is a passive meter worn by a scientifically sampled, demographically balanced panel.

• The system is a projection: The data in the report is an estimate of the total market, based on the behavior of this carefully selected panel.
• The panel is dynamic: The panel is constantly being recruited and rotated to maintain representativeness, which can cause natural quarterly fluctuations. These are not product-based changes; they are normal panel changes.
• Humans structure their lives around themselves, not your program clock.  We’re measuring people who have complicated lives. Their daily routines do change based on the weather, the seasons and the events in their lives. If a family member is out of town, or they run into a lot of traffic on their way to work, or they oversleep, all of these things change their media consumption. We see panelists change their listening from one survey to the next in PPM and it’s normal.

Best Practices

Keith: Since the dawn of PPM, we’ve constantly heard about “best practices” to get ratings. Many programmers believe some “best practices” actually hurt product quality and the listener experience. What’s your response to that?

Rich: I agree, and this is a critical point. The best practice is good programming. Any strategy that focuses solely on “gaming the meter”—like excessive segmentation, rapid stop-set placement, or high-frequency music rotation that irritates the listener—is fundamentally flawed. Our meters measure listening behavior, not programming intent. If a programmer focuses on creating a great, engaging, and listenable product, the meters will reflect that with higher engagement (TSL) and more quarter-hours. We also hope the 3-Minute Rule will actually give programmers more freedom to experiment and focus on the listener experience.

Quarter vs. Quarter

Keith: Programmers and executives often knee-jerk or are forced to knee-jerk if a quarter or two are down. Even if it’s clearly more a reflection of panel change than it is product-based. What advice would you give to radio leaders about reading month-to-month or quarter-to-quarter ratings?

Rich: Zoom out. Never make a major strategic decision based on a single month or quarter.

1. Look for Trends: Focus on the 6- or 12-month rolling average to smooth out the natural panel volatility.
2. Product vs. Panel: Compare your change to the overall market’s performance. If the entire market is down, it could be a panel fluctuation. If your station is down while competitors are stable, it’s time for a product review.
3. Use PD Advantage: Leverage the tools we provide to analyze the behavior of listeners who joined or left the panel in a given month to understand if the change is a product issue or a panel shift.

FutureCasting

Keith: Are we close to a time when the industry measures local radio side by side with digital, social, and other connected platforms in one shared client view everyone can see, use, sell, and program against?

Rich: I don’t know that we will ever have a day when radio is measured the same way social media and other media is measured. I don’t think that’s the goal. Audio is naturally more intentional than scrolling on Instagram. It drives more authenticity and connection than many other forms of media. Radio needs measurement that serves the way audiences interact with it. 

However, from a planning perspective, there is a need to see how radio and Audio interact with other media and how radio can improve campaigns. Nielsen Media Impact (NMI) is a tool used by all major holding companies and many advertisers which puts radio and podcasting in the view with Television, Cable, CTV, Streaming, Digital, Mobile, etc. and it shows the unique and indisputable strength of radio.

The Uncomfortable Truth

Keith: What’s the uncomfortable truth about today’s ratings and revenue climate you wish everyone knew or would just admit?

Rich:  People are running toward digital revenue so fast that they’re leaving the most profitable and impactful audiences behind. It’s OK to emphasize streaming and podcasting because it’s what your clients want, but don’t let them talk you out of pitching your radio audience! It’s bigger, it’s more powerful and you do your clients a disservice by letting them think they’re executing a full audio strategy without broadcast. 

Radio has a long future ahead of itself, but there is change on the immediate horizon. There will be bright days ahead for the well-positioned operator.

Nielsen 2026 and Beyond

Keith: What would you like readers to know about what’s on the near horizon for Nielsen Audio clients?

Rich: Nielsen is making more improvements and bringing more innovation to our radio measurement than at any other point in memory. Beyond the recent modernization of our incentives, our e-screeners and our targeted sample enhancements, there is more coming regarding something clients have been looking forward to for a long time.

We are also partnering with industry organizations like the IAB and the RAB as well as directly with our clients to elevate audio and radio with advertisers and bring the audio message to the key advertiser conferences where they gather, such as the ANA, Possible, SXSW and Cannes. We’ve also established partnerships with leading service innovators and complementary measurement companies like Edison research to bring Podcasting into Nielsen tools. This elevates Audio with our advertiser clients. Anytime we can help them plan for more audio, it is better for all of our clients.

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